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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
Is this based on "Five Pillars of Islam", not the actual defining terms but just the name for the directives? I would consider changing this to the "Five directives of Wikipedia", to be more neutral. Wikipedia is not a religion nor should it seek to immulate one. Most importantly, it should not degrade other religions in mimickry. I am not a muslim, but find this a offensive.
I'm asking for feedback on some merge-related suggestions, please come give input at Wikipedia talk:Simplified Ruleset#Merge suggestions?. Thanks :) - Quiddity 22:13, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Clause ...remember that there are 6,852,012 articles on the English Wikipedia to work on... seems to be incorrect; it is rather misleading to estimate the way ahead using the current mileage, however intuitively it must be between 6,852,012 and Graham's number. = DBWikis 15:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
This section talks about text only, but increasingly images and perhaps later video will be important, and these are bound by the same princinples. Perhaps we should mention them at some point. Stephen B Streater 08:21, 24 September 2006 (UTC) 14:16, 28 January 2007 (UTC) Danfarrell
I personally think images should be exempt from the "Free Content" rule; however, I think Jimbo would consider non-free photos a violation of the Wikimedia Foundation principles. Librarylefty 04:00, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
What is not incompatible with GNU Free Documentation License?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Faisal.akeel ( talk • contribs)
The first "pillar" says: "All articles must follow our no original research policy and strive for accuracy". However, if you click on the "accuracy" link, it takes you to a page which says (as the very first senstence) "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth." Now, to me and surely to most people, "accuracy" would imply that you are striving to include what IS true, but the linked page suggests that what you actually want to include is what other sources SAY is true, regardless of whether it is or not. Indeed, if the policies of Neutral Point Of View and No Original Research are properly applied, then you cannot possibly strive for accuracy. In short, the statement that Wikipedia articles must "strive for accuracy" is itself inaccurate. -- Multivitamin 12:30, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
As a former publisher of a major publication in the state of Tennessee, USA, I must comment that neutrality or lack of bias is not only unrealistic, but dishonest. Everyone has influences that change their perspective on events, whether religious, philosophical, experiential or educational.
A glaring example from history is the U.S. Civil War. Even the name reveals bias. In the South, it is called "The War Between the States". Some even call it "The War of Northern aggression" or "The War for Southern Independence". But the victor writes the history books, therefore, it is called the "Civil War", the Southern Confederacy is depicted as evil Black slave owners and abusers and Abraham Lincoln is depicted as an honest caring man who out of compassion for black men "set the slaves free". The facts are very different -- but that is my bias.
William Cole, email removed —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whiggish ( talk • contribs)
I just noticed that the icons are supposed to be pillars. I had always thought they looked like elongated square academic caps with two tassels hanging from the sides. Jecowa 04:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I find this very offensive being a muslim and all. Can you change the name of this thanks.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.110.136.194 ( talk • contribs)
I also find it offensive, Is it making fun of Islam (if not, what is the reason for it being used?)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.249.229.58 ( talk • contribs) .
Forgive my whimsical curiosity. If the 5 pillars of wikipedia are a sort of loosely laid homage to Islaam, is there a sixth unofficial and highly controversial sixth pillar of sorts which wikipedians are divided over following? Sorry for posting a stupid question on the discussion place of an important topic, but....well, answer anyone?-- Mr Bucket 04:25, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I concur with the notion that "pillars" does not hold directly to Islam. Without knowing, is it a literal translation from Arabic? I'd guess not - more importantly, "pillars" is a term used everywhere. The European Union famously has '3 Pillars' to it's structure. If anything, Wiki should be 4 pillars, not five - the fifth should just be a addendum. But five sounds better! Gwilym84 00:25 25 January 2007
I have a few questions and problems with the Wikipedia: Five Pillars article. It's fine to have a centralized moral code, but it clearly models the 5 pillars of Islam. Is that the right image for an encyclopedia that stresses nuetrality? Besides, pillar #5 just sums up the first 4, it isn't really origional. In addition, shouldn't the page be LOCKED? If I were a vandal, that'd be the first page I'd go for. Please, I'd like some support and feedback on this issue. Seldon1 04:22, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Interestingly, most of the previous responses from people identifying as Muslim, were positive (see Wikipedia talk:Five pillars/Archive2#Disrespectful of Islam). But more recently, there seem to be more complaints coming (see #Wikipedia Five Pillars supporting non-appropriate religions and #Sixth Pillar?).
As I wrote above, I don't think our page name is intended to be comparable to the five pillars of Islam, it is just a numerical/naming coincidence – "the pillars of" is a common architectural metaphor for describing something's fundamentals/foundations/principles/rules (see google). Possibly a note pointing this out could/should be added to the top of this talk page? Might help prevent a few future repetitions of this discussion. — Quiddity 20:39, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Let's make it the "The 5 Axioms of Wikipedia". I am a Scientologist (we have "Axioms") but we would not be offended, IMO. If not, then I guess we could make it "The 5 Lugnuts of Wikipedia" as it keeps the wheel on. -- Justanother 09:34, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
Is this based on "Five Pillars of Islam", not the actual defining terms but just the name for the directives? I would consider changing this to the "Five directives of Wikipedia", to be more neutral. Wikipedia is not a religion nor should it seek to immulate one. Most importantly, it should not degrade other religions in mimickry. I am not a muslim, but find this a offensive.
I'm asking for feedback on some merge-related suggestions, please come give input at Wikipedia talk:Simplified Ruleset#Merge suggestions?. Thanks :) - Quiddity 22:13, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Clause ...remember that there are 6,852,012 articles on the English Wikipedia to work on... seems to be incorrect; it is rather misleading to estimate the way ahead using the current mileage, however intuitively it must be between 6,852,012 and Graham's number. = DBWikis 15:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
This section talks about text only, but increasingly images and perhaps later video will be important, and these are bound by the same princinples. Perhaps we should mention them at some point. Stephen B Streater 08:21, 24 September 2006 (UTC) 14:16, 28 January 2007 (UTC) Danfarrell
I personally think images should be exempt from the "Free Content" rule; however, I think Jimbo would consider non-free photos a violation of the Wikimedia Foundation principles. Librarylefty 04:00, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
What is not incompatible with GNU Free Documentation License?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Faisal.akeel ( talk • contribs)
The first "pillar" says: "All articles must follow our no original research policy and strive for accuracy". However, if you click on the "accuracy" link, it takes you to a page which says (as the very first senstence) "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth." Now, to me and surely to most people, "accuracy" would imply that you are striving to include what IS true, but the linked page suggests that what you actually want to include is what other sources SAY is true, regardless of whether it is or not. Indeed, if the policies of Neutral Point Of View and No Original Research are properly applied, then you cannot possibly strive for accuracy. In short, the statement that Wikipedia articles must "strive for accuracy" is itself inaccurate. -- Multivitamin 12:30, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
As a former publisher of a major publication in the state of Tennessee, USA, I must comment that neutrality or lack of bias is not only unrealistic, but dishonest. Everyone has influences that change their perspective on events, whether religious, philosophical, experiential or educational.
A glaring example from history is the U.S. Civil War. Even the name reveals bias. In the South, it is called "The War Between the States". Some even call it "The War of Northern aggression" or "The War for Southern Independence". But the victor writes the history books, therefore, it is called the "Civil War", the Southern Confederacy is depicted as evil Black slave owners and abusers and Abraham Lincoln is depicted as an honest caring man who out of compassion for black men "set the slaves free". The facts are very different -- but that is my bias.
William Cole, email removed —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whiggish ( talk • contribs)
I just noticed that the icons are supposed to be pillars. I had always thought they looked like elongated square academic caps with two tassels hanging from the sides. Jecowa 04:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I find this very offensive being a muslim and all. Can you change the name of this thanks.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.110.136.194 ( talk • contribs)
I also find it offensive, Is it making fun of Islam (if not, what is the reason for it being used?)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.249.229.58 ( talk • contribs) .
Forgive my whimsical curiosity. If the 5 pillars of wikipedia are a sort of loosely laid homage to Islaam, is there a sixth unofficial and highly controversial sixth pillar of sorts which wikipedians are divided over following? Sorry for posting a stupid question on the discussion place of an important topic, but....well, answer anyone?-- Mr Bucket 04:25, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I concur with the notion that "pillars" does not hold directly to Islam. Without knowing, is it a literal translation from Arabic? I'd guess not - more importantly, "pillars" is a term used everywhere. The European Union famously has '3 Pillars' to it's structure. If anything, Wiki should be 4 pillars, not five - the fifth should just be a addendum. But five sounds better! Gwilym84 00:25 25 January 2007
I have a few questions and problems with the Wikipedia: Five Pillars article. It's fine to have a centralized moral code, but it clearly models the 5 pillars of Islam. Is that the right image for an encyclopedia that stresses nuetrality? Besides, pillar #5 just sums up the first 4, it isn't really origional. In addition, shouldn't the page be LOCKED? If I were a vandal, that'd be the first page I'd go for. Please, I'd like some support and feedback on this issue. Seldon1 04:22, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Interestingly, most of the previous responses from people identifying as Muslim, were positive (see Wikipedia talk:Five pillars/Archive2#Disrespectful of Islam). But more recently, there seem to be more complaints coming (see #Wikipedia Five Pillars supporting non-appropriate religions and #Sixth Pillar?).
As I wrote above, I don't think our page name is intended to be comparable to the five pillars of Islam, it is just a numerical/naming coincidence – "the pillars of" is a common architectural metaphor for describing something's fundamentals/foundations/principles/rules (see google). Possibly a note pointing this out could/should be added to the top of this talk page? Might help prevent a few future repetitions of this discussion. — Quiddity 20:39, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Let's make it the "The 5 Axioms of Wikipedia". I am a Scientologist (we have "Axioms") but we would not be offended, IMO. If not, then I guess we could make it "The 5 Lugnuts of Wikipedia" as it keeps the wheel on. -- Justanother 09:34, 28 January 2007 (UTC)