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Recently some one add in Bhinmal-that in the peoples from "Bhinmal was in news in emergency in 1976 when some people of Bhinmal were wanted and arrested in connection with smuggling" its baseless,if you remember that time,all the supporter of Janta party,& allegedly harassed by ruling congerss paty government, so please dont put any meterial that is insulting for Bhinmal and abusing the people of Bhinmal.if you have any base of this fact then produce it,you can chek any of news paper of 1975,for refrences. SANJAYBAFNA 13:02, 8 November 2006 (UTC)SANJAYBAFNA
Wouldn't it be a good idea to have an
Wikipedia:Edit war article, of course redirected from
Edit war and
Edit wars, which could be used when warning newbies for engaging in such activities?
--
Ruhrjung 16:04, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I plan to merge this with Wikipedia:Current_disputes_over_articles. Martin 14:10, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Continuation of a discussion from Wikipedia talk:Deletion policy
Why do people worry so much about edit wars? Why does it matter if for a while visitors to the site find that an article is oscillating between different wording? It seems to me that edit wars (no matter how protracted) will always fizzle out eventually. The "edit warriors" get frustrated and bored and realise they have to find a compromise. To me, this a very good thing indeed, not only for Wikipedia but for the edit warriors themselves. [I consider that my conflicts with RK and others when I was new here have taught me something about life]. In fact I would go further, and say that edit wars that are allowed to run their course and come to a natural resolution agreed by all warring parties are the very best thing about this place. They lead to better articles than would be possible by any other method. They are the lifeblood of Wikipedia. They are its glory. GrahamN 21:47, 3 Nov 2003 (UTC)
The apartheid article springs to mind. We eventually came to an accomodation, after a great deal of heated discussion on the Talk page. But the discussion only happened because the warring parties (I was one) came to realise the futility of continuing our edit war. People have to come to this realisation themselves - you can't force them to see it. You just make them resentful and convinced that the administrators are a sinister cabal with a mission to suppress their point of view. I wonder what you think would happen if admininstrators failed to step in and halt an edit war? Do you think the protagonists would still be sitting at their computers reverting and re-reverting twenty years later? Or even a week later? Of course not! They must eventually get bored and frustrated and realise that they have to compromise. There is no other way out. That is the glory of it! And you haven't explained where the harm could possibly be. Why does it matter if, for a while, visitors to the site find that a particular article is in a state of flux? GrahamN 23:30, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)
I take your point, JT [I've seen others call you "James". May I call you that?]. In fact I agree with almost everything you said in the earlier version of your post before it was bowdlerised [1]. If you want to have fun, go to a funfair. If you want to socialise, go to a pub. Time spent here should be spent on nothing other than the quest to create the greatest encyclopaedia there has ever been. We absolutely agree on that. It's nice to find some common ground at last :-) We just disagree on the best way to do it. You said Edit wars are all very well, but if they drive contributors away, drive editors away, drive potential readers away then however much you may get 'something' from them, wikipedia comes first, before you, me, Cyan, RK, Mav or anyone else. I can almost agree with this too, but not quite. I certainly agree with the sentiment, but I think there are some subtleties you may have missed. Firstly, I don't believe that the line between the benefits to individuals and the benefits to wikipedia is as sharp as you paint it. Editing Wikipedia is a particular kind of skill, which has to be learned. In my opinion, and experience, being involved in an edit war is an excellent first lesson. Secondly, although it's certanly true that edit wars are offputting to contributors, it seems to me that authoritarian moves by administrators are even more offputting. At least in an edit war, a contributor feels that their fate is in their own hands. Even if they leave in frustration, there could always be the thought that they might try again, wording the article in a slightly different way. After a day or two they may return to try it. And then before long, our newcomer has learned the vital first lesson of edit warfare: simple reversion is (usually) pointless - you have to modify the words a little each time, to try to make them more acceptable to your adversary, while not losing the crux of what it is you are trying to convey. By contrast, if the page you are working on is suddenly protected, and if you are threatened with drastic measures unless you cease hostilities forthwith, then you are made to feel powerless, and, naturally, resentful. If that happens to a newcomer it is easy for them to get the (presumably incorrect) impression that this place is run by a cabal of technologically empowered zealots determined to suppress all viewpoints but their own. This impression is far more offputting than the fiercest edit war could ever be. I speak from experience. How many times have you heard this "cabal" argument given as a reason for quitting wikipedia? I've heard it lots of times, and in frustration I've said something very similar myself. On the other hand, how many times have you heard people say that they are leaving because they can't stand the edit wars? Personally, I can't remember hearing that even once. Thirdly, you say that edit wars drive potential readers away. I still can't see how that could happen, but even if it did, the problem must be far outweighed by the long-term benefit to Wikipedia of having the kinds of microscopically fair-minded articles that emerge from the heat of wars between editors who hold utterly opposing world-views. GrahamN 03:22, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)
>>How many times have you heard this "cabal" argument given as a reason for quitting wikipedia
>>how many times have you heard people say that they are leaving because they can't stand the edit wars
My edit-equilibrium example is
BBC, where the "futility of war" resulted in a compromise both sides could live with. But it required the participants have some measure of respect for the process and participants. That's not a luxury that always exists, but I still think it's the best "feature" of Wikipedia. Perhaps there should be a WikiCreed that we could have people recite when these wars get heated.
Fuzheado 01:04, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Does this page need to be NPOV, or is this article intented to try and stop people from having edit wars in the first place? If it's treated like any normal Wikipedia article, it should provide a balanced account of why some people choose to enter edit wars, and why they could be good. -- Mattworld 23:54, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Above, someone writes with regards to wikipedia:revert: "This is not an official policy and I am against it". Sie is quite correct.
However, one example of an official policy is the new text on Wikipedia:Edit conflicts, which, by the powers vested in me by the Wikipedia power structure I hereby declare official, having been standard practice for several years, and amply illustrated by a range of precedents over the past years.
Making this common practice universal will significantly reduce longterm conflict, while improving the quality of the encyclopedia. Further, it provides solid guidance to newcomers to help them cope with the vagaries of Wikipedia's edit conflict system. Martin 23:34, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)~
In response to comments made at the village pump, Daniel Quinlan proposed the following on Dec 6 2003:
(from the village pump)
In my year watching Wikipedia I thought I'd seen all variations of edit wars - at religion articles, science/pseudoscience articles, history/politics articles, etc. - but for the last day or so an edit war has been raging at, of all things, Curse of the Bambino! (This is a jokey reference to the inability of Boston's baseball team to win a title.) That's like watching a fistfight over whether Twinkies are tastier than Ho-Hos (if I may be forgiven a USA-centric junk-food joke)
I'm curious: Has anybody else encountered a real, mean-spirited, you-revert-me-so-I-revert-you edit war over a less likely topic? DavidWBrooks 15:38, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC) no I never saw one
See wikipedia:pedantry dispute. :) Martin 20:08, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)
if you want to see edit wars and vadalism and the like, plus some playing the victim, follow user dreamguy's "exploits" through out the encyclopdia... his attitude seems to irk a lot of people. Gabrielsimon 00:54, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
(from the village pump)
I propose that a new policy be implemented to deal with the short-term impact of edit and revert wars. The protecting pages does not seem to work as the conflict soon spreads to other pages, and we can't be protecting all the pages. I am almost inclined to support a policy whereby sysops are allowed to temp-ban participants until the Mediation/Arbitration committees are done reviewing the issue. This is a pessimistic rather than optimistic approach to doing things, but this constant flux of warring does not look good. Ideas, opinions, solutions? I think we need to have a discussion on this, and I don't trust the mailing lists for this issue which concerns many more Wikipedians than participate there. Dori | Talk 17:12, Feb 13, 2004 (UTC)
This sounds like a good idea. (temporarily banning a participant in an edit war.) I don't see any reason why a user would get into an edit war. If two users have different opinions over an issue, why dont they just discuss it. --Ed Senft ! 18:22, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)
On the contrary, the only one that "refuses" to uphold the NPOV is Mirv, who always upholds only the "quite easy" and false "Politically Correct" POV. Vandalism is NOT adding relevant links and information to articles or editing for NPOV, which users like Mirv, Snoyes, etc. ad nauseum, a cabal of liars and hypocrites, have often done to ban or censor the NPOV article that I wrote here:
"Cosmotheism is a religion which positively asserts that there is a internal purpose in life and in cosmos, and there is an essential unity, or consciousness that binds all living beings and all of the inorganic cosmos, as one.
<snip rest of article> by snoyes 17:43, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Clear-cut "vandalism" is not allowing for the NPOV to be made within articles, and that is exactly what JIMBO wanted to avoid: ANY Marxist-PC CABAL of dogmatic CENSORS!!!
Best regards,
Paul Vogel
I fully endorse a policy of 24 hour blocks on anybody who breaks the 3 revert rule of thumb. IMO edit wars become a form of vandalism after 3 reverts per user. Users who are in the right are very often joined by other users - each of whom has three reverts to blow. Users who are working against consensus will quickly get temp banned. Users who get temp banned often enough should have an RfC page created on them and they should enter into Wikipedia:Dispute resolution process. Hopefully they will reform, if they don't then the arbitration committee (who I happen to be a member of) will impose more drastic remedies. Disclaimer: This is all my opinion and not an official statement by the committee. -- mav 10:51, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Edit wars II and (as proposed below) III. How to avoid them ?
It seems that phase two of the iridology page edit wars will rage again
The declaration of war reads like this:
My question is how to bring calm and serenity in David and Theresa, how to protect information, how to encourage them to always resort to documents in the talk page and (gasp) for myself - how to ignore the police alert attitude as put in evidence above outside the village pump? TIA - irismeister 19:52, 2004 Feb 19 (UTC)
To 213.84.6.203, who said in an edit summary "I really don't understand why this external link was removed": I suspect Maveric149 could see no direct relevance to this article. I just took a quick look at the site in question, EditWar.com, which seems to be a new wiki someone has set up in the last few days. I have to say other than its title, its relevance to this article isn't immediately obvious to me either. Please explain. GrahamN 23:35, 3 May 2004 (UTC)
An anonymous user, while making other less objectionable edits, added the following to the bottom of the page:
For one thing, I consider this to be something that doesn't belong on the page, being aimed more at the term itself than what it means. For another thing, I consider the assertion itself to be inaccurate, and based on a particular view of English grammar that I don't believe everyone agrees with. Alfvaen 06:02, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC)
Hello, I was wondering if edit/revert wars are allowed in the sandbox. Thank you, 152.13.128.72 23:42, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC) Correction: I was somehow logged out without realizing it. Here is my signature: Y0u 23:43, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)
I've reverted Light current's unilateral attempt to rewrite this article, who's proved to have a flawed understanding of policy at WP:V. FeloniousMonk 17:28, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Would "rapid reverts" be a better term? StarboardFlank 08:02, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Is there any evidence that this term has ever been used outside wikipedia? Ed876 05:07, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
The phrase "Waiting an hour or more between reverts to vandalism makes continued vandalism less likely, according to experienced editors. In most cases, troublemakers will lose interest, and subsequently leave." is under dispute, because it is alleged to be a violation of WP:DENY. Personally, I disagree since (1) delaying for an hour is not giving recognition, and (2) WP:DENY does not have consensual support. Comments welcome. ( Radiant) 12:45, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
This is indeed a tough one! I see a few issues here, for something that appears such a simple issue. I'll try to go through in detail here.
Here are the arguments I'd see in favor:
And the main ones against:
I would tend to say that, at the very least, this should be clarified. Massive or obscene vandalism (such as Blair-replaced-with-a-penis above) should most certainly be reverted immediately and as many times as it takes. The same for vandals who insert false (but potentially believable) information, or totally blank an article and replace it with profanity or nonsense. I think the "hello" vandalism Radiant cited is probably more conducive to this type of handling-perhaps revert once, see if the vandal notices, and if so just "let them have it" for a few minutes. Likely, they'll get bored and go away. However, the issue still remains that, even if one user doesn't revert the vandalism, the next to see it might-it's just hard to see vandalism in an article and knowingly leave it there! Seraphimblade 11:56, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I was recently blocked for an edit war. I wasn't warned before I was blocked, should there be a warning first? I would have stopped if warned. That's obviously not true for some editors, but there are warnings for vandalism before vandals are blocked. -- AW 03:05, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Forgive me if the Talk page for Edit War isn't the right topic … tell me, I'll move it to a more appropriate Talk page.
I've encountered something recently that's probably old news. Maybe not. Please enlighten me.
You happen upon a page that you have some expertise in, edit it about some, then get your edits reverted with or without a prejudicial comment ("spurious edit reverted," "this has already been discussed and resolved"). Twice now, I've encountered film pages in which I was effectively blocked for editing/adding to by editors who've had edits on the page for over a year. Twice I've been told something like, "if you'd read the Talk page for this article, you'll see that this has already been discussed [more like warred over] and resolved. Read the Talk page before you edit."
This seems anathema to many WP policies: be bold, don't bite newbies, everyone can edit, 3RR, no angry mastodons. The core concept of WP seems, to me, that this is a living library, and that pages can continue to grow, shrink, change, etc. as editors come and go. No page is "done" when some higher authority has made sufficient edits that the page can no longer improve, only degrade (by someone's arbitrary measure, or formal review and accreditation). There are exceptions, but my impression is that these are WP policy and guide pages, not article content.
Editors who "camp out" on a page and discourage or "shoot down" changes seem to violate the WP:NOT policies that this is not a site for personal opinion pages, fan pages, etc. But if the article is of a notable topic, NPOV, has sufficient references/cites, it may not qualify as someone's "own page." Still, camped-out editors (I'll call them "page squatters") are effectively shutting out new editors by setting unreasonable prerequisites ("read the Talk page," "ask us on the Talk page BEFORE making your change," "hang around awhile and become familiar with the article [or editors?] before editing"). I don't think there are many articles on WP -- I haven't found any, other than policy or admin pages -- which editors (registered or otherwise) have to ask permission on the Talk page prior to editing. (I'm excluding formally protected pages in this, BTW.) Besides, some Talk pages are pretty extensive, going back 2+ years. I've encountered Talk pages requiring more than an hour to read diligently.
The obvious result of this behavior would seem to be edit wars ... but the insidious result is that new editors will shrug and move on, and a page is no longer really "editable." 3RR and edit war complaints won't hold water if the pgae isn't clearly mired in a mass of conflicting edits. Squatting can have its effect over time. I have my own tactic to prohibit me from being a squatter. But how do we deal with other squatters? Perhaps we need an essay about this...? (Or there already is one, and I just didn't find it?) Any reactions or thoughts invited herein. TIA. — David Spalding Talk/ Contribs 18:56, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I think even someone as annoying as an edit warrior can have the sense to go to the sandbox to have an edit war if it's "too much free time". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.107.103.220 ( talk) 18:35, 17 December 2006 (UTC).
The end of this guideline contains an awkward list that has no introduction. Was the list added in error or, was the discussion / introduction deleted in error? Or does it even need to be fixed
Some times people vandalize my edits! RealG187 19:53, 25 January 2007 (UTC) PiAndWhippedCream 04:30, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
I'ven't ever seen anything about an un-block policy. Wii Play was blocked due to an edit war. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it should be unblocked now, but I would like to know what the policy is for such cases (so we can be working toward it...). McKay 04:52, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Before I get into what happened, here's a link that everyone within the Wiki community should read, and it's from today's Nashville Tennessean:
http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070218/OPINION01/702180357
The problem is this. When someone gets into Wikipedia and does editing, whatever is put into or taken away from the article in question has to follow two common-sense rules: 1) it follows the facts; and 2) it cites primary sources. Too often there are those who refuse to do either, and what they post is a disgrace. The Tennessean article has to do with the un-eliability of Wikipedia as an educational work. Teachers and professors will not use it, and they will tell their students not to use it because of those individuals who play "psuedo-historian" or "psuedo-scientist". To make Wikipedia a reliable source of information there are those who sincerely are doing what they can to make it better; unfortunately, in my case, there was someone who insisted that I was totally in the wrong when I saw an edit by him in the ironclad warship and made a correction. The man demanded I look into other articles (I have to assume Wikipedia articles) for the validity of his statements. My answers, and unfortunately those answers to him may violate Wikipedia standards, are given in the talk page of that article.
I already have a reputation for providing as much documentation and source material as I can find to make articles better, whether they are long or short articles. This is primarily for the average reader of Wikipedia; you want this reader, no matter who he or she is, to read something good, well-written, and able to look up source material with confidence. Wikipedia cannot afford to have anyone come in and change things around to the point that the articles are inaccurate, unreliable, or just plain wrong. If that happens, then all of us will continue to see more newspaper articles like the one above. Carajou 19:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
If this is an edit war, then I can’t say I’ve ever seen a contributor here so rapidly edit a molehill into a mountain before. Let’s see. Carajou changes the name of a ship from its historical name to a popular, but incorrect one. I make a single, well-intentioned revert to the historical name, and Carajou launches into a round of insults on the article’s talk page. When I offer simple, well-documented facts that trump his one based on the name of a roadway and I make what I believe is a fair and balanced resolution, it is summarily undone (non-controversial edits and all) by Carajou, who launches into an even more vituperous tirade of insults and then proceeds to whip up an assertion of an “edit war.” Seems more like a case of personal attacks and someone’s ownership issue from my perspective.
I really have to strongly protest editor Carajou’s ad hominem presumptions of my qualifications and personal insults to my character. He has no personal knowledge of me whatsoever. I cannot recall ever having crossed pens with him before, so I can’t begin to fathom the degree of his personal hostility nor what his personal agenda is. I firmly object to his flagrant mischaracterizations of my words. For example, above he says, “The man demanded I look into other articles (I have to assume Wikipedia articles) for the validity of his statements”; what I actually wrote – as anyone can read – was “I recommend you read the articles on the ships USS Merrimack, CSS Virginia, and USS Monitor (in addition to the content of this very article).” (Boldface added, but the very visible wikilinks were present in the original.)
I am quite content to let the historical facts speak for themselves and welcome any other knowledgeable editor’s comments. In fact, I won’t be able to participate this forthcoming week as I will be on business travel. If anyone has questions, simply look at what I have posted on the talk page and my edits that were reverted by Carajou in the article’s edit history for February 16 & 17. Askari Mark (Talk) 02:32, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I know some edit wars, that fall into the revert of text contributions "...in part" and continue to do so "...in part" each time (once it has passed a change of a revision in part once, bad edit wars usually turn into a revert "...in entirety" of that initial "part") can be constructive, if each side gives in a little, to the other users edits each change, until both are satisfied or at least less dissatisfied, I think this kind of "good edit war" should be added into the edit war page too. This kind of edit war usually starts with new articles that only two users view. 207.202.227.125 01:16, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Is it okay to have extensive discusion and then a mini edit war of let say three reverts in total and then proceed to dispute resolution, like mediation? Or is extensive discussion and one revert enough for mediation? I personally prefer the former. I think that the advantage of a revert is that they make it clear that there is serious disagreement. Andries 20:27, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
In my opinion, people having edit/revert wars over a single article is just silly. What should prevent edit wars is a zero tolerance policy on edit warring. It should make Wikipedia a friendlier environment for editing. After the article gets protected so only administrators can edit it, said participants would be blocked for disruption. How does this sound? Harold 26 ( c) 11:46, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Recently some one add in Bhinmal-that in the peoples from "Bhinmal was in news in emergency in 1976 when some people of Bhinmal were wanted and arrested in connection with smuggling" its baseless,if you remember that time,all the supporter of Janta party,& allegedly harassed by ruling congerss paty government, so please dont put any meterial that is insulting for Bhinmal and abusing the people of Bhinmal.if you have any base of this fact then produce it,you can chek any of news paper of 1975,for refrences. SANJAYBAFNA 13:02, 8 November 2006 (UTC)SANJAYBAFNA
Wouldn't it be a good idea to have an
Wikipedia:Edit war article, of course redirected from
Edit war and
Edit wars, which could be used when warning newbies for engaging in such activities?
--
Ruhrjung 16:04, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I plan to merge this with Wikipedia:Current_disputes_over_articles. Martin 14:10, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Continuation of a discussion from Wikipedia talk:Deletion policy
Why do people worry so much about edit wars? Why does it matter if for a while visitors to the site find that an article is oscillating between different wording? It seems to me that edit wars (no matter how protracted) will always fizzle out eventually. The "edit warriors" get frustrated and bored and realise they have to find a compromise. To me, this a very good thing indeed, not only for Wikipedia but for the edit warriors themselves. [I consider that my conflicts with RK and others when I was new here have taught me something about life]. In fact I would go further, and say that edit wars that are allowed to run their course and come to a natural resolution agreed by all warring parties are the very best thing about this place. They lead to better articles than would be possible by any other method. They are the lifeblood of Wikipedia. They are its glory. GrahamN 21:47, 3 Nov 2003 (UTC)
The apartheid article springs to mind. We eventually came to an accomodation, after a great deal of heated discussion on the Talk page. But the discussion only happened because the warring parties (I was one) came to realise the futility of continuing our edit war. People have to come to this realisation themselves - you can't force them to see it. You just make them resentful and convinced that the administrators are a sinister cabal with a mission to suppress their point of view. I wonder what you think would happen if admininstrators failed to step in and halt an edit war? Do you think the protagonists would still be sitting at their computers reverting and re-reverting twenty years later? Or even a week later? Of course not! They must eventually get bored and frustrated and realise that they have to compromise. There is no other way out. That is the glory of it! And you haven't explained where the harm could possibly be. Why does it matter if, for a while, visitors to the site find that a particular article is in a state of flux? GrahamN 23:30, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)
I take your point, JT [I've seen others call you "James". May I call you that?]. In fact I agree with almost everything you said in the earlier version of your post before it was bowdlerised [1]. If you want to have fun, go to a funfair. If you want to socialise, go to a pub. Time spent here should be spent on nothing other than the quest to create the greatest encyclopaedia there has ever been. We absolutely agree on that. It's nice to find some common ground at last :-) We just disagree on the best way to do it. You said Edit wars are all very well, but if they drive contributors away, drive editors away, drive potential readers away then however much you may get 'something' from them, wikipedia comes first, before you, me, Cyan, RK, Mav or anyone else. I can almost agree with this too, but not quite. I certainly agree with the sentiment, but I think there are some subtleties you may have missed. Firstly, I don't believe that the line between the benefits to individuals and the benefits to wikipedia is as sharp as you paint it. Editing Wikipedia is a particular kind of skill, which has to be learned. In my opinion, and experience, being involved in an edit war is an excellent first lesson. Secondly, although it's certanly true that edit wars are offputting to contributors, it seems to me that authoritarian moves by administrators are even more offputting. At least in an edit war, a contributor feels that their fate is in their own hands. Even if they leave in frustration, there could always be the thought that they might try again, wording the article in a slightly different way. After a day or two they may return to try it. And then before long, our newcomer has learned the vital first lesson of edit warfare: simple reversion is (usually) pointless - you have to modify the words a little each time, to try to make them more acceptable to your adversary, while not losing the crux of what it is you are trying to convey. By contrast, if the page you are working on is suddenly protected, and if you are threatened with drastic measures unless you cease hostilities forthwith, then you are made to feel powerless, and, naturally, resentful. If that happens to a newcomer it is easy for them to get the (presumably incorrect) impression that this place is run by a cabal of technologically empowered zealots determined to suppress all viewpoints but their own. This impression is far more offputting than the fiercest edit war could ever be. I speak from experience. How many times have you heard this "cabal" argument given as a reason for quitting wikipedia? I've heard it lots of times, and in frustration I've said something very similar myself. On the other hand, how many times have you heard people say that they are leaving because they can't stand the edit wars? Personally, I can't remember hearing that even once. Thirdly, you say that edit wars drive potential readers away. I still can't see how that could happen, but even if it did, the problem must be far outweighed by the long-term benefit to Wikipedia of having the kinds of microscopically fair-minded articles that emerge from the heat of wars between editors who hold utterly opposing world-views. GrahamN 03:22, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)
>>How many times have you heard this "cabal" argument given as a reason for quitting wikipedia
>>how many times have you heard people say that they are leaving because they can't stand the edit wars
My edit-equilibrium example is
BBC, where the "futility of war" resulted in a compromise both sides could live with. But it required the participants have some measure of respect for the process and participants. That's not a luxury that always exists, but I still think it's the best "feature" of Wikipedia. Perhaps there should be a WikiCreed that we could have people recite when these wars get heated.
Fuzheado 01:04, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Does this page need to be NPOV, or is this article intented to try and stop people from having edit wars in the first place? If it's treated like any normal Wikipedia article, it should provide a balanced account of why some people choose to enter edit wars, and why they could be good. -- Mattworld 23:54, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Above, someone writes with regards to wikipedia:revert: "This is not an official policy and I am against it". Sie is quite correct.
However, one example of an official policy is the new text on Wikipedia:Edit conflicts, which, by the powers vested in me by the Wikipedia power structure I hereby declare official, having been standard practice for several years, and amply illustrated by a range of precedents over the past years.
Making this common practice universal will significantly reduce longterm conflict, while improving the quality of the encyclopedia. Further, it provides solid guidance to newcomers to help them cope with the vagaries of Wikipedia's edit conflict system. Martin 23:34, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)~
In response to comments made at the village pump, Daniel Quinlan proposed the following on Dec 6 2003:
(from the village pump)
In my year watching Wikipedia I thought I'd seen all variations of edit wars - at religion articles, science/pseudoscience articles, history/politics articles, etc. - but for the last day or so an edit war has been raging at, of all things, Curse of the Bambino! (This is a jokey reference to the inability of Boston's baseball team to win a title.) That's like watching a fistfight over whether Twinkies are tastier than Ho-Hos (if I may be forgiven a USA-centric junk-food joke)
I'm curious: Has anybody else encountered a real, mean-spirited, you-revert-me-so-I-revert-you edit war over a less likely topic? DavidWBrooks 15:38, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC) no I never saw one
See wikipedia:pedantry dispute. :) Martin 20:08, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)
if you want to see edit wars and vadalism and the like, plus some playing the victim, follow user dreamguy's "exploits" through out the encyclopdia... his attitude seems to irk a lot of people. Gabrielsimon 00:54, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
(from the village pump)
I propose that a new policy be implemented to deal with the short-term impact of edit and revert wars. The protecting pages does not seem to work as the conflict soon spreads to other pages, and we can't be protecting all the pages. I am almost inclined to support a policy whereby sysops are allowed to temp-ban participants until the Mediation/Arbitration committees are done reviewing the issue. This is a pessimistic rather than optimistic approach to doing things, but this constant flux of warring does not look good. Ideas, opinions, solutions? I think we need to have a discussion on this, and I don't trust the mailing lists for this issue which concerns many more Wikipedians than participate there. Dori | Talk 17:12, Feb 13, 2004 (UTC)
This sounds like a good idea. (temporarily banning a participant in an edit war.) I don't see any reason why a user would get into an edit war. If two users have different opinions over an issue, why dont they just discuss it. --Ed Senft ! 18:22, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)
On the contrary, the only one that "refuses" to uphold the NPOV is Mirv, who always upholds only the "quite easy" and false "Politically Correct" POV. Vandalism is NOT adding relevant links and information to articles or editing for NPOV, which users like Mirv, Snoyes, etc. ad nauseum, a cabal of liars and hypocrites, have often done to ban or censor the NPOV article that I wrote here:
"Cosmotheism is a religion which positively asserts that there is a internal purpose in life and in cosmos, and there is an essential unity, or consciousness that binds all living beings and all of the inorganic cosmos, as one.
<snip rest of article> by snoyes 17:43, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Clear-cut "vandalism" is not allowing for the NPOV to be made within articles, and that is exactly what JIMBO wanted to avoid: ANY Marxist-PC CABAL of dogmatic CENSORS!!!
Best regards,
Paul Vogel
I fully endorse a policy of 24 hour blocks on anybody who breaks the 3 revert rule of thumb. IMO edit wars become a form of vandalism after 3 reverts per user. Users who are in the right are very often joined by other users - each of whom has three reverts to blow. Users who are working against consensus will quickly get temp banned. Users who get temp banned often enough should have an RfC page created on them and they should enter into Wikipedia:Dispute resolution process. Hopefully they will reform, if they don't then the arbitration committee (who I happen to be a member of) will impose more drastic remedies. Disclaimer: This is all my opinion and not an official statement by the committee. -- mav 10:51, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Edit wars II and (as proposed below) III. How to avoid them ?
It seems that phase two of the iridology page edit wars will rage again
The declaration of war reads like this:
My question is how to bring calm and serenity in David and Theresa, how to protect information, how to encourage them to always resort to documents in the talk page and (gasp) for myself - how to ignore the police alert attitude as put in evidence above outside the village pump? TIA - irismeister 19:52, 2004 Feb 19 (UTC)
To 213.84.6.203, who said in an edit summary "I really don't understand why this external link was removed": I suspect Maveric149 could see no direct relevance to this article. I just took a quick look at the site in question, EditWar.com, which seems to be a new wiki someone has set up in the last few days. I have to say other than its title, its relevance to this article isn't immediately obvious to me either. Please explain. GrahamN 23:35, 3 May 2004 (UTC)
An anonymous user, while making other less objectionable edits, added the following to the bottom of the page:
For one thing, I consider this to be something that doesn't belong on the page, being aimed more at the term itself than what it means. For another thing, I consider the assertion itself to be inaccurate, and based on a particular view of English grammar that I don't believe everyone agrees with. Alfvaen 06:02, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC)
Hello, I was wondering if edit/revert wars are allowed in the sandbox. Thank you, 152.13.128.72 23:42, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC) Correction: I was somehow logged out without realizing it. Here is my signature: Y0u 23:43, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)
I've reverted Light current's unilateral attempt to rewrite this article, who's proved to have a flawed understanding of policy at WP:V. FeloniousMonk 17:28, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Would "rapid reverts" be a better term? StarboardFlank 08:02, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Is there any evidence that this term has ever been used outside wikipedia? Ed876 05:07, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
The phrase "Waiting an hour or more between reverts to vandalism makes continued vandalism less likely, according to experienced editors. In most cases, troublemakers will lose interest, and subsequently leave." is under dispute, because it is alleged to be a violation of WP:DENY. Personally, I disagree since (1) delaying for an hour is not giving recognition, and (2) WP:DENY does not have consensual support. Comments welcome. ( Radiant) 12:45, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
This is indeed a tough one! I see a few issues here, for something that appears such a simple issue. I'll try to go through in detail here.
Here are the arguments I'd see in favor:
And the main ones against:
I would tend to say that, at the very least, this should be clarified. Massive or obscene vandalism (such as Blair-replaced-with-a-penis above) should most certainly be reverted immediately and as many times as it takes. The same for vandals who insert false (but potentially believable) information, or totally blank an article and replace it with profanity or nonsense. I think the "hello" vandalism Radiant cited is probably more conducive to this type of handling-perhaps revert once, see if the vandal notices, and if so just "let them have it" for a few minutes. Likely, they'll get bored and go away. However, the issue still remains that, even if one user doesn't revert the vandalism, the next to see it might-it's just hard to see vandalism in an article and knowingly leave it there! Seraphimblade 11:56, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I was recently blocked for an edit war. I wasn't warned before I was blocked, should there be a warning first? I would have stopped if warned. That's obviously not true for some editors, but there are warnings for vandalism before vandals are blocked. -- AW 03:05, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Forgive me if the Talk page for Edit War isn't the right topic … tell me, I'll move it to a more appropriate Talk page.
I've encountered something recently that's probably old news. Maybe not. Please enlighten me.
You happen upon a page that you have some expertise in, edit it about some, then get your edits reverted with or without a prejudicial comment ("spurious edit reverted," "this has already been discussed and resolved"). Twice now, I've encountered film pages in which I was effectively blocked for editing/adding to by editors who've had edits on the page for over a year. Twice I've been told something like, "if you'd read the Talk page for this article, you'll see that this has already been discussed [more like warred over] and resolved. Read the Talk page before you edit."
This seems anathema to many WP policies: be bold, don't bite newbies, everyone can edit, 3RR, no angry mastodons. The core concept of WP seems, to me, that this is a living library, and that pages can continue to grow, shrink, change, etc. as editors come and go. No page is "done" when some higher authority has made sufficient edits that the page can no longer improve, only degrade (by someone's arbitrary measure, or formal review and accreditation). There are exceptions, but my impression is that these are WP policy and guide pages, not article content.
Editors who "camp out" on a page and discourage or "shoot down" changes seem to violate the WP:NOT policies that this is not a site for personal opinion pages, fan pages, etc. But if the article is of a notable topic, NPOV, has sufficient references/cites, it may not qualify as someone's "own page." Still, camped-out editors (I'll call them "page squatters") are effectively shutting out new editors by setting unreasonable prerequisites ("read the Talk page," "ask us on the Talk page BEFORE making your change," "hang around awhile and become familiar with the article [or editors?] before editing"). I don't think there are many articles on WP -- I haven't found any, other than policy or admin pages -- which editors (registered or otherwise) have to ask permission on the Talk page prior to editing. (I'm excluding formally protected pages in this, BTW.) Besides, some Talk pages are pretty extensive, going back 2+ years. I've encountered Talk pages requiring more than an hour to read diligently.
The obvious result of this behavior would seem to be edit wars ... but the insidious result is that new editors will shrug and move on, and a page is no longer really "editable." 3RR and edit war complaints won't hold water if the pgae isn't clearly mired in a mass of conflicting edits. Squatting can have its effect over time. I have my own tactic to prohibit me from being a squatter. But how do we deal with other squatters? Perhaps we need an essay about this...? (Or there already is one, and I just didn't find it?) Any reactions or thoughts invited herein. TIA. — David Spalding Talk/ Contribs 18:56, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I think even someone as annoying as an edit warrior can have the sense to go to the sandbox to have an edit war if it's "too much free time". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.107.103.220 ( talk) 18:35, 17 December 2006 (UTC).
The end of this guideline contains an awkward list that has no introduction. Was the list added in error or, was the discussion / introduction deleted in error? Or does it even need to be fixed
Some times people vandalize my edits! RealG187 19:53, 25 January 2007 (UTC) PiAndWhippedCream 04:30, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
I'ven't ever seen anything about an un-block policy. Wii Play was blocked due to an edit war. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it should be unblocked now, but I would like to know what the policy is for such cases (so we can be working toward it...). McKay 04:52, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Before I get into what happened, here's a link that everyone within the Wiki community should read, and it's from today's Nashville Tennessean:
http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070218/OPINION01/702180357
The problem is this. When someone gets into Wikipedia and does editing, whatever is put into or taken away from the article in question has to follow two common-sense rules: 1) it follows the facts; and 2) it cites primary sources. Too often there are those who refuse to do either, and what they post is a disgrace. The Tennessean article has to do with the un-eliability of Wikipedia as an educational work. Teachers and professors will not use it, and they will tell their students not to use it because of those individuals who play "psuedo-historian" or "psuedo-scientist". To make Wikipedia a reliable source of information there are those who sincerely are doing what they can to make it better; unfortunately, in my case, there was someone who insisted that I was totally in the wrong when I saw an edit by him in the ironclad warship and made a correction. The man demanded I look into other articles (I have to assume Wikipedia articles) for the validity of his statements. My answers, and unfortunately those answers to him may violate Wikipedia standards, are given in the talk page of that article.
I already have a reputation for providing as much documentation and source material as I can find to make articles better, whether they are long or short articles. This is primarily for the average reader of Wikipedia; you want this reader, no matter who he or she is, to read something good, well-written, and able to look up source material with confidence. Wikipedia cannot afford to have anyone come in and change things around to the point that the articles are inaccurate, unreliable, or just plain wrong. If that happens, then all of us will continue to see more newspaper articles like the one above. Carajou 19:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
If this is an edit war, then I can’t say I’ve ever seen a contributor here so rapidly edit a molehill into a mountain before. Let’s see. Carajou changes the name of a ship from its historical name to a popular, but incorrect one. I make a single, well-intentioned revert to the historical name, and Carajou launches into a round of insults on the article’s talk page. When I offer simple, well-documented facts that trump his one based on the name of a roadway and I make what I believe is a fair and balanced resolution, it is summarily undone (non-controversial edits and all) by Carajou, who launches into an even more vituperous tirade of insults and then proceeds to whip up an assertion of an “edit war.” Seems more like a case of personal attacks and someone’s ownership issue from my perspective.
I really have to strongly protest editor Carajou’s ad hominem presumptions of my qualifications and personal insults to my character. He has no personal knowledge of me whatsoever. I cannot recall ever having crossed pens with him before, so I can’t begin to fathom the degree of his personal hostility nor what his personal agenda is. I firmly object to his flagrant mischaracterizations of my words. For example, above he says, “The man demanded I look into other articles (I have to assume Wikipedia articles) for the validity of his statements”; what I actually wrote – as anyone can read – was “I recommend you read the articles on the ships USS Merrimack, CSS Virginia, and USS Monitor (in addition to the content of this very article).” (Boldface added, but the very visible wikilinks were present in the original.)
I am quite content to let the historical facts speak for themselves and welcome any other knowledgeable editor’s comments. In fact, I won’t be able to participate this forthcoming week as I will be on business travel. If anyone has questions, simply look at what I have posted on the talk page and my edits that were reverted by Carajou in the article’s edit history for February 16 & 17. Askari Mark (Talk) 02:32, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I know some edit wars, that fall into the revert of text contributions "...in part" and continue to do so "...in part" each time (once it has passed a change of a revision in part once, bad edit wars usually turn into a revert "...in entirety" of that initial "part") can be constructive, if each side gives in a little, to the other users edits each change, until both are satisfied or at least less dissatisfied, I think this kind of "good edit war" should be added into the edit war page too. This kind of edit war usually starts with new articles that only two users view. 207.202.227.125 01:16, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Is it okay to have extensive discusion and then a mini edit war of let say three reverts in total and then proceed to dispute resolution, like mediation? Or is extensive discussion and one revert enough for mediation? I personally prefer the former. I think that the advantage of a revert is that they make it clear that there is serious disagreement. Andries 20:27, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
In my opinion, people having edit/revert wars over a single article is just silly. What should prevent edit wars is a zero tolerance policy on edit warring. It should make Wikipedia a friendlier environment for editing. After the article gets protected so only administrators can edit it, said participants would be blocked for disruption. How does this sound? Harold 26 ( c) 11:46, 14 August 2007 (UTC)