![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
is it then in order for a sysop to G11 the draft? I would personally think not?— S Marshall T/ C 12:44, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Reason 3 for requesting Deletion Review, in the instructions, states: "if significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page". However, DRVs that are requests to re-create a previously deleted article, or an article that has been stubbed to a redirect, are often told, by some of the regular editors here, that such requests are a waste of DRV time, and to just submit the draft for AFC review. It appears that the instructions do not match the actual practice. Either reason 3 should be dropped to match actual practice, or narrowed and clarified to match actual practice, or requests involving a previously deleted (or redirected) article should be reviewed, rather than scolding the requester. Which should it be: Change the instructions, or change the practice? Robert McClenon ( talk) 02:48, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
why you're always interested in sending people away from DRV to other forums. Because of scope creep, and avoiding bureaucracy. If a call and answer page suffices, use it. DRV is a week long discussion forum that exists to correct mistakes, overkill for procedural requests. If the SALT was due to excessive spam creation, and now there is "significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page”, that’s a procedural request, one that could have gone to the SALTING admin if still active or otherwise gone to RFUP. Save DRV for where there is something to discuss. Clarice Phelps was a good example of a salting resolved at DRV. Certainly, anyone *may* used DRV, but I think it is better and easier for the requester if they *first* ask at REFUND for an undeletion, or RFUP for unprotection. The statement of denial will help them with the DRV opening statement. — SmokeyJoe ( talk) 22:45, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
I think that is written well, with the option in the right order, (1) ask the admin; (2) try WP:RFUP; (3) use DRV. The encouragement to pre-write a draft is very good. Procedural de-SALTing is required if there was a history of repeated spam creations and G11 deletion. My point is directed at experienced Wikipedians at AfC who might direct newcomer drafters to DRV due to the corresponding mainspace title being historically salted. -- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 06:20, 29 February 2020 (UTC)Contributors wishing to re-create a salted title with appropriate content should either contact an administrator (preferably the protecting administrator), file a request at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection#Current requests for reduction in protection level, or use the deletion review process. To make a convincing case for re-creation, it is helpful to show a draft version of the intended article when filing a request.
-- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 06:33, 29 February 2020 (UTC)#3 (DRV-YES)
if significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page, and a request to recreate the page has been denied
-- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 06:35, 29 February 2020 (UTC)For uncontroversial undeletions, try WP:REFUND first.
I will provide two examples of context for reason 3:
The first one is a wounded animal that needs to be shot, but I am mentioning it probably as an example of misguided use of reason 3, which may be a reason to rework or delete reason 3.
The second one appears to be the sort of case that reason 3 is meant for, and so is a test of whether reason 3 is a good reason. Articles have been deleted after two deletion discussions. What should an AFC reviewer do with yet another draft? Accept the draft, knowing that a third AFD is probable? Reject the draft, based on the two previous AFDs? Ask the author of the draft to go to DRV as per reason 3? That is what I would have done until recently, except that some other DRV regulars scold about it. (Yes, User:SmokeyJoe, you do scold about the use of reason 3, and it is unpleasant, although you are being marginally civil.) I chose in this case to tell the submitter to discuss on the draft talk page. It is the sort of case that is described by reason 3. So should reason 3 be used, or be removed? Robert McClenon ( talk) 18:20, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
Well the title says it all, I used to start afd's and deletion reviews in the past, but I'm not sure if it is allowed or ethical to vote on it. Eduemoni ↑talk↓ 07:29, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
is it then in order for a sysop to G11 the draft? I would personally think not?— S Marshall T/ C 12:44, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Reason 3 for requesting Deletion Review, in the instructions, states: "if significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page". However, DRVs that are requests to re-create a previously deleted article, or an article that has been stubbed to a redirect, are often told, by some of the regular editors here, that such requests are a waste of DRV time, and to just submit the draft for AFC review. It appears that the instructions do not match the actual practice. Either reason 3 should be dropped to match actual practice, or narrowed and clarified to match actual practice, or requests involving a previously deleted (or redirected) article should be reviewed, rather than scolding the requester. Which should it be: Change the instructions, or change the practice? Robert McClenon ( talk) 02:48, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
why you're always interested in sending people away from DRV to other forums. Because of scope creep, and avoiding bureaucracy. If a call and answer page suffices, use it. DRV is a week long discussion forum that exists to correct mistakes, overkill for procedural requests. If the SALT was due to excessive spam creation, and now there is "significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page”, that’s a procedural request, one that could have gone to the SALTING admin if still active or otherwise gone to RFUP. Save DRV for where there is something to discuss. Clarice Phelps was a good example of a salting resolved at DRV. Certainly, anyone *may* used DRV, but I think it is better and easier for the requester if they *first* ask at REFUND for an undeletion, or RFUP for unprotection. The statement of denial will help them with the DRV opening statement. — SmokeyJoe ( talk) 22:45, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
I think that is written well, with the option in the right order, (1) ask the admin; (2) try WP:RFUP; (3) use DRV. The encouragement to pre-write a draft is very good. Procedural de-SALTing is required if there was a history of repeated spam creations and G11 deletion. My point is directed at experienced Wikipedians at AfC who might direct newcomer drafters to DRV due to the corresponding mainspace title being historically salted. -- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 06:20, 29 February 2020 (UTC)Contributors wishing to re-create a salted title with appropriate content should either contact an administrator (preferably the protecting administrator), file a request at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection#Current requests for reduction in protection level, or use the deletion review process. To make a convincing case for re-creation, it is helpful to show a draft version of the intended article when filing a request.
-- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 06:33, 29 February 2020 (UTC)#3 (DRV-YES)
if significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page, and a request to recreate the page has been denied
-- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 06:35, 29 February 2020 (UTC)For uncontroversial undeletions, try WP:REFUND first.
I will provide two examples of context for reason 3:
The first one is a wounded animal that needs to be shot, but I am mentioning it probably as an example of misguided use of reason 3, which may be a reason to rework or delete reason 3.
The second one appears to be the sort of case that reason 3 is meant for, and so is a test of whether reason 3 is a good reason. Articles have been deleted after two deletion discussions. What should an AFC reviewer do with yet another draft? Accept the draft, knowing that a third AFD is probable? Reject the draft, based on the two previous AFDs? Ask the author of the draft to go to DRV as per reason 3? That is what I would have done until recently, except that some other DRV regulars scold about it. (Yes, User:SmokeyJoe, you do scold about the use of reason 3, and it is unpleasant, although you are being marginally civil.) I chose in this case to tell the submitter to discuss on the draft talk page. It is the sort of case that is described by reason 3. So should reason 3 be used, or be removed? Robert McClenon ( talk) 18:20, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
Well the title says it all, I used to start afd's and deletion reviews in the past, but I'm not sure if it is allowed or ethical to vote on it. Eduemoni ↑talk↓ 07:29, 30 March 2020 (UTC)