This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Lord Borchard de Herle

I am uncertain as to the audience in writing this note to. It is in response to the request to delete the article on Lord Borchard de Herle. Like most peoples whose comments I have read I have been suspicious of this person as all the references are incestuous. There is however a painting of this person given by Wikipedia as a portrait of Royalty at Westminster Abby Edward I is in the chair and Lord Borchard de Herle to the furthest to the right, however further research shows that show that the painting is not at Westminster Abbey but is an illumination from a medieval manuscript ‘The Grandes Chroniques de France c.1455.’ and the main figures are Edward I kneeling before Philip IV of France, with Herle assumed to be the other kneeling figure. The de Herles appear to have arrived in Herla, now Kirkharle Northumberland, in about 1140 or just after the harrying of the North. and according to TC Banks in his 'The Dormant and Extinct Baronage of England' states the name is of considerable antiquity, although not of Baronial status. ' In the 12th and 13th centuries various members of the Herles married and went to live in Cornwall. These were marriages into wealthy families and it is difficult to imagine a yeoman farmer from the wilds of West Harle in Northumberland having any connections with Cornwall. I would hypothesise that the first de Herle to arrive in Northumberland came from a high ranking Norman Family who owned property in Cornwall. I would further suggest that this family originated in Herle, now Herleen in Holland. I have written in my write up on the early de Herles that it would appear that the first de Herle to arrive in Northumberland was the second son of a Duke. This is where I have the problem with Lord Borchard. His demise as described would show why a high status de Herle family no longer existed in Cornwall, but why is there no other mention of this family. This high ranking family would also explain the movement of two yeoman farmers to Cornwall to marry into high status families. My conclusions are that there was a high ranking family of de Herles in Cornwall and that it is possible that Lord Borchard was a member of this family. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.147.65.55 ( talk) 15:26, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

• The article was deleted in 2014 after this discussion. What's needed now is evidence (by means of citations) that Lord de Herle has been discussed in secondary sources. If you have any such evidence then please link it here. All the best— S Marshall T/ C 19:40, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

There seems to be some confusion as to whether the proper forum for requesting that articles that have been deleted after a full deletion discussion at Articles for Deletion be restored to user or draft space for improvement or for viewing by AFC reviewers is deletion review or Requests for Undeletion. It appears to me on a close reading that REFUND is the correct venue for such requests. (As a reviewer at Articles for Creation, I sometimes need to compare a draft against the deleted article to decide whether the draft is an improvement over the deleted article. If they are the same, the draft must be declined and may be a candidate for WP:G4.) If other editors agree that REFUND is the correct venue, then maybe an additional entry in the list of incorrect reasons for DRV should be requests for copies of deleted articles, in user or draft space, for improvement or comparison. Robert McClenon ( talk) 23:47, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

• WP:DRV is for contesting deletion decisions, the process or the close, but is also used for refund requests if the case is controversial. If the case is not controversial, such as with articles deleted for lack of sources now provided, WP:REFUND is the place to go. You could request temporary undeletion. If the draft is moderately plausible, perhaps request a history merge with the draft? Although my sense is that this is a further case of draftspace creating more work than help. A much better idea would be Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Robert McClenon 2. -- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 07:21, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Well, thank you, but I am not the only reviewer who sometimes wants to see deleted articles, and we can't give the mop to all of the reviewers. Robert McClenon ( talk) 21:53, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

A few more admin reviewers would help a great deal. You personally are to be trusted, you now have the mainspace edits asked for in RfA1, and I have no idea what the "rude" comments were about, ten years ago. Alternatively, use WP:REFUND until admins there say your requests are controversial. -- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 05:35, 30 December 2016 (UTC)