![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I have edited Wikipedia:Deletion review/Purpose [1] to add "#to seek reversal of an AfD consensus to redirect without deletion. Instead, seek consensus, on the talk page of the redirect target, to re-create the spinout." I did this because DRV seems to attracting a few nominations that do none of the following: (1) challenge the use of an XfD process; (2) challenge or question a close of an XfD, (3) involve any deletion. Where a consensus has found that a topic should be redirected to another, the proper place to seek to reverse this is on the talk page of the target. The discussion will involve detailed discussion on content, and probably WP:UNDUE. Suitable editors to be involved in the discussion are the editors watching the target page. DRV is not a good forum for this sort of discussion. -- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 00:59, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
DRV is better equipped than talk pages to handle both reviews where new sources surfaced and reviews where the AfD process is alleged to be at fault because:
Closing an AfD as "merge" or "redirect" should not shield it from community review when an editor believes consensus is assessed incorrectly.
There is more legitimacy in reversing an AfD's result by presenting new sources to a venue watched by a large number of editors.
It is better to reinstate an article with the input of uninvolved editors rather than primarily involved editors.
Closure brings finality to the result and lessens the chances of further disputes occurring.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hudson Street Hooligans was closed as "redirect to Columbus Crew SC#Club culture (with a selective merge permitted)".
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Involuntary celibacy (2nd nomination) was closed as "merge to Celibacy".
Your addition to Wikipedia:Deletion review/Purpose would have banned both nominations. Would you have preferred both discussions be discussed at Talk:Columbus Crew SC and Talk:Celibacy, respectively?
I think editors should be given the choice of starting a "restore article" discussion at DRV or on the talk page. If an editor wants independent input, the editor could list it at DRV and inform interested editors through notifications on the relevant talk pages.
I don't think DRV should be used in cases where: (a) it was not a pseudo deletion; and (b) the nomination makes no criticism of an old AfD process, discussion or close. – I agree, but many merge closes are pseudo-deletions in that very little content from the redirected article can be merged to the target article to comply with Wikipedia:Neutral point of view#Due and undue weight. Adding wording like this to Wikipedia:Deletion review/Purpose would cover a small subset of "merge" or "redirect"–related DRV nominations.
Cunard ( talk) 04:39, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
An editor blanked out The Weight of Chains 2 page, citing a decision made for a redirect to The Weight of Chains article. Since the vote in late September 2014, the film sequel has been released worldwide, with premieres at the Montecasino Film Festial in Johannesburg, South Africa, the Swedish Film Institute in Stockholm, Sweden and the National Museum of Culture in Mexico City (also shown in Vancouver, Toronto, Innsbruck, Stuttgart, Berlin, etc.). I added notable references for the article and would like to check if blanking out this page constitutes vandalism, or are votes on whether a page should be deleted/redirected indefinite decisions? The user who blanked out the page invited me to open a deletion review, but the page was never deleted, only redirected redirected and the text in the article that was moved to The Weight of Chains article has now been greatly expanded with very reliable sources. How to open a deletion review if the article was never deleted and the new article contains majority information that didn't exist in the previous version? -- UrbanVillager ( talk) 13:03, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
Hello. I am not sure if this is the right place to bring this up--please let me know. I suggested Mary Helen Clark, the headmistress of a small, religious secondary school in Brazil, for speedy deletion, which was reverted. It then went to AFD, but the discussion was closed without consensus. One concern is that this was created by an editor who was paid by a private university to advertise their special collection; but the main concern, frankly, is that she does not appear notable at all. Most secondary schools don't have a page (even high schools often aren't deemed significantly notable on Wikipedia; this school is not comparable to Eton College at all), and she was only a headmistress. In any case, that is my impression. I think we should have a new AFD so that we can reach a real decision. If I am wrong about notability (for example, as was suggested on the AFD page, if Wikipedia has a guideline saying that all subjects in US academic special collections are notable), then that would be fine, but right now the page looks terrible and the subject still seems extremely weak. It would be a totally different matter if the subject had taught at that private university, published significant research, or achieved anything substantial I think. Now, I don't know how to do the three-step AFD process, and I don't want to mess it up. (I also have very limited internet connectivity in my hotel room.) Where would I find a knowledgable editor to either unclose the AFD or suggest a new one please? Thank you. Zigzig20s ( talk) 08:57, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
A while ago, it was established that requests for history undeletions, in general, should go to WP:REFUND. However, it is not clear whether this applies only to cases in which the article is recreated with improved content, or also if the deleted article is eventually turned into a redirect. I'm opening a discussion here to get clarification on this issue: Should history undeletion be allowed upon request if the article was deleted at AfD and later turned into a redirect? (Assuming that there is no copyvio, libel, etc.)
This is my take on it. Pros:
Cons:
Overall, I feel that the pros outweigh the cons. There is a lot of benefit in preserving the content, which can be used in the target article or elsewhere. As for reverting the redirect, it should be made clear that doing so is not permitted. (Chronic problems can be enforced by protection.) And as for problematic content, other than the things I mentioned above like copyvio, libel, etc., generally speaking there is no harm in having this content visible. Of course, use common sense - if people at the AfD complained about the content (as opposed to the topic simply being not notable), then don't restore it. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 21:32, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
Please will somebody enact the decision reached at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2015 January 8? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:32, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
A little back story: last year an AfD for List of awards and nominations received by 5 Seconds of Summer was non-admin closed as a merge to the main article for the band, a move that I personally agree with for the most part since the list wasn't that big and the band's article wasn't that big either. Recently someone re-created the article under a new name to get around the protection on the article. It looks like the band has had a few more nominations and awards, but not that many. I was going to redirect the editor here, but I'm somewhat leaning towards this having a new AfD as opposed to just DRV because there is slightly more to the article. It also has sources now, although the big issue with the article was pretty much just whether or not it should be separate from the main article. What are you guys' take on this? Tokyogirl79 (。◕‿◕。) 12:17, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I have edited Wikipedia:Deletion review/Purpose [1] to add "#to seek reversal of an AfD consensus to redirect without deletion. Instead, seek consensus, on the talk page of the redirect target, to re-create the spinout." I did this because DRV seems to attracting a few nominations that do none of the following: (1) challenge the use of an XfD process; (2) challenge or question a close of an XfD, (3) involve any deletion. Where a consensus has found that a topic should be redirected to another, the proper place to seek to reverse this is on the talk page of the target. The discussion will involve detailed discussion on content, and probably WP:UNDUE. Suitable editors to be involved in the discussion are the editors watching the target page. DRV is not a good forum for this sort of discussion. -- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 00:59, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
DRV is better equipped than talk pages to handle both reviews where new sources surfaced and reviews where the AfD process is alleged to be at fault because:
Closing an AfD as "merge" or "redirect" should not shield it from community review when an editor believes consensus is assessed incorrectly.
There is more legitimacy in reversing an AfD's result by presenting new sources to a venue watched by a large number of editors.
It is better to reinstate an article with the input of uninvolved editors rather than primarily involved editors.
Closure brings finality to the result and lessens the chances of further disputes occurring.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hudson Street Hooligans was closed as "redirect to Columbus Crew SC#Club culture (with a selective merge permitted)".
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Involuntary celibacy (2nd nomination) was closed as "merge to Celibacy".
Your addition to Wikipedia:Deletion review/Purpose would have banned both nominations. Would you have preferred both discussions be discussed at Talk:Columbus Crew SC and Talk:Celibacy, respectively?
I think editors should be given the choice of starting a "restore article" discussion at DRV or on the talk page. If an editor wants independent input, the editor could list it at DRV and inform interested editors through notifications on the relevant talk pages.
I don't think DRV should be used in cases where: (a) it was not a pseudo deletion; and (b) the nomination makes no criticism of an old AfD process, discussion or close. – I agree, but many merge closes are pseudo-deletions in that very little content from the redirected article can be merged to the target article to comply with Wikipedia:Neutral point of view#Due and undue weight. Adding wording like this to Wikipedia:Deletion review/Purpose would cover a small subset of "merge" or "redirect"–related DRV nominations.
Cunard ( talk) 04:39, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
An editor blanked out The Weight of Chains 2 page, citing a decision made for a redirect to The Weight of Chains article. Since the vote in late September 2014, the film sequel has been released worldwide, with premieres at the Montecasino Film Festial in Johannesburg, South Africa, the Swedish Film Institute in Stockholm, Sweden and the National Museum of Culture in Mexico City (also shown in Vancouver, Toronto, Innsbruck, Stuttgart, Berlin, etc.). I added notable references for the article and would like to check if blanking out this page constitutes vandalism, or are votes on whether a page should be deleted/redirected indefinite decisions? The user who blanked out the page invited me to open a deletion review, but the page was never deleted, only redirected redirected and the text in the article that was moved to The Weight of Chains article has now been greatly expanded with very reliable sources. How to open a deletion review if the article was never deleted and the new article contains majority information that didn't exist in the previous version? -- UrbanVillager ( talk) 13:03, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
Hello. I am not sure if this is the right place to bring this up--please let me know. I suggested Mary Helen Clark, the headmistress of a small, religious secondary school in Brazil, for speedy deletion, which was reverted. It then went to AFD, but the discussion was closed without consensus. One concern is that this was created by an editor who was paid by a private university to advertise their special collection; but the main concern, frankly, is that she does not appear notable at all. Most secondary schools don't have a page (even high schools often aren't deemed significantly notable on Wikipedia; this school is not comparable to Eton College at all), and she was only a headmistress. In any case, that is my impression. I think we should have a new AFD so that we can reach a real decision. If I am wrong about notability (for example, as was suggested on the AFD page, if Wikipedia has a guideline saying that all subjects in US academic special collections are notable), then that would be fine, but right now the page looks terrible and the subject still seems extremely weak. It would be a totally different matter if the subject had taught at that private university, published significant research, or achieved anything substantial I think. Now, I don't know how to do the three-step AFD process, and I don't want to mess it up. (I also have very limited internet connectivity in my hotel room.) Where would I find a knowledgable editor to either unclose the AFD or suggest a new one please? Thank you. Zigzig20s ( talk) 08:57, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
A while ago, it was established that requests for history undeletions, in general, should go to WP:REFUND. However, it is not clear whether this applies only to cases in which the article is recreated with improved content, or also if the deleted article is eventually turned into a redirect. I'm opening a discussion here to get clarification on this issue: Should history undeletion be allowed upon request if the article was deleted at AfD and later turned into a redirect? (Assuming that there is no copyvio, libel, etc.)
This is my take on it. Pros:
Cons:
Overall, I feel that the pros outweigh the cons. There is a lot of benefit in preserving the content, which can be used in the target article or elsewhere. As for reverting the redirect, it should be made clear that doing so is not permitted. (Chronic problems can be enforced by protection.) And as for problematic content, other than the things I mentioned above like copyvio, libel, etc., generally speaking there is no harm in having this content visible. Of course, use common sense - if people at the AfD complained about the content (as opposed to the topic simply being not notable), then don't restore it. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 21:32, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
Please will somebody enact the decision reached at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2015 January 8? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:32, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
A little back story: last year an AfD for List of awards and nominations received by 5 Seconds of Summer was non-admin closed as a merge to the main article for the band, a move that I personally agree with for the most part since the list wasn't that big and the band's article wasn't that big either. Recently someone re-created the article under a new name to get around the protection on the article. It looks like the band has had a few more nominations and awards, but not that many. I was going to redirect the editor here, but I'm somewhat leaning towards this having a new AfD as opposed to just DRV because there is slightly more to the article. It also has sources now, although the big issue with the article was pretty much just whether or not it should be separate from the main article. What are you guys' take on this? Tokyogirl79 (。◕‿◕。) 12:17, 27 January 2015 (UTC)