This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I suggest changing the final bullet to:
I suggest this change because under section 4J of the license, users of the material are required to "Preserve the network location ..... for previous versions it was based on". So linking back to Wikipedia isn't optional as a way for crediting history and giving a transparent copy, as the existing wording implies; it is demanded by the license.
Could someone with a good understanding of the license check I have understood this correctly? Enchanter 15:51 Aug 21, 2002 (PDT)
Question - do quotations come under the guidelines on this page? I'm currently doing lots of stuff to the pages dealing with Neil Gaiman's Sandman stories, and sometimes use quotations from the original in the entries. Do I need to include a copyright notice for these? AW
Yes, I'd suggest preserving copyright notices, along with some kind of "Used pursuant to 17 USC §107" notice. Otherwise, it's borderline plagiarism. (Plagiarism != infringement. Not crediting is plagiarism; breaking the fair use guidelines is infringement.) -- Damian Yerrick
Could someone clatify the status of public domain works? The whole of the article Victor Lustig was pasted from a web site marked "public domain". -- Tarquin
---
How does translating text fit in here? Most of the time translation is paraphrasing since exact translation is not possible with most languages. -- voidvector
I have a question ..... what is the meaning of copyright? Obviously very few of us actually "know" the person or object we are writing about. For example, when writing about Mary Queen of Scots I assume no one has actually met her to get a report on her life (!) so everything about her on this site must have been taken from an existing text.
So most of this encyclopaedia is copyright!!
My last statement is obviously nonsense so where does copyright end? Is it OK to rephrase an existing text in such a way that it cannot be recognised in the encyclopaedia? How different must it be?
I'm really puzzled. Help!!
Arpingstone 20:51 Jan 21, 2003 (UTC)
It's cool that we're allowed to copy individual articles from Wikipedia. But how about copying the entire thing ? What do I do if I want to, say, create a CD-ROM containing all of Wikipedia ? Maybe this should be explained here ? Or a link should be provided to a page explaining it ? ---- User:Eivind Jan 29, 2003
Are people allowed to quote from the Wikipedia? How long a quote can they take before it stops being fair use?
Seriously: I have no intention of contributing to an unquotable encyclopedia, any more than I would want to start a cancer plague. -- Uncle Ed 23:18 Feb 27, 2003 (UTC)
A discussion regarding Wikipedia's image use policy has brought up a very interesting question: What about copyright law in foreign jurisdictions?
( Bromberg & Sunstein, LLP - Copyright Durations - Foreign Rights and Works)
IMHO, this is a very serious concern for Wikipedia. -- NetEsq 02:28 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)
From your reference:
It was talk of "national treatment" similar to this statement that led me to write previously "Foreign copyright owners from such countries, whose rights are infringed by Wikipedia, would generally act against Wikipedia under US law". I was confused by the idea that the foreign copyright can be protected, but protected by the mechanism of national law. If copyright has expired in the US but not elsewhere, can a civil case be brought against Jimbo or Bomis in a US court? Are the protections for website owners, under DMCA, removed when it is a foreign copyright owner who is wronged? -- Tim Starling 02:46 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)
My *GUESS* is that United States law would obtain if suit were brought in a United States court, but that is only a guess. Moroever, if someone in the United Kingdom were to bring suit against Wikipedia in the United Kingdom, my guess is that the United Kingdom would apply the law of the United Kingdom, but (once again) that is only a guess. The implications of such forum shopping are truly mind-boggling. I vaguely remember a legal dispute some twenty years ago (not involving copyright) where the courts in these two countries claimed jurisdiction and dismissed the jurisdictional claims of the other country, and the litigants passed away long before the dispute was resolved, assuming that it ever was resolved. -- NetEsq 03:09 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)
I found an article that is totally on point: Conflict of Laws Issues in International Copyright Cases By Peter K. Yu. Basically, there is no "right" answer when it comes to international conflicts of copyright law, and anyone relying upon Wikipedia's GFDL in a foreign jurisdiction does so at his or her own risk. [Please note that nothing that I have posted here should be construed as a legal opinion or as constituting legal advice.] -- NetEsq 04:05 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)
This is my opinion (a non-lawyer's) based on the spirit of the GFDL, rather than the letter. When you licence a work under the GFDL, you licence it so that everyone can use it. You explicitly say "You may copy and distribute the Document in any medium". If the work may not be copied and distributed outside the US, then you may not licence it under the GFDL. Note that the GFDL doesn't allow you to place geographical restrictions on who can copy it, so you can't say that "Wikipedia text is licensed under the GFDL for use in the US only". Hence, all data submitted has to be legal under all copyright law - essentially this means following the union of US law, EU law, and the Berne convention. Martin
In theory, that's all well and good, but there is no guarantee on how foreign jurisdictions will interpret the GFDL. They can do whatever they want. In fact, there is no guarantee as to how courts in the United States might interpret copyright claims (public domain or otherwise) based on foreign publication.
Based upon my initial research, I am of the opinion that the GFDL *IS* in fact limited to publications within the context of United States copyright law. It does not -- and cannot -- take the copyright law of foreign jurisdictions into account. This is an unsettled area of the law, and those who contribute or publish content outside of the jurisdiction of the United States do so at their own risk.
In other words, as stated by Tim Starling above, those who upload or contribute content to Wikipedia are obliged to comply with the copyright law in the jursidiction where they upload or contribute content, whereas those who download and/or publish content from Wikipedia must comply with the copyright law in their jurisdiction. Contrary to assertions made above, the Berne convention does *NOT* provide appropriate "choice of law" provisions. -- NetEsq 17:31 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)
And French don't use Linux.... Ericd 21:16 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)
( Open source and copyright law.)
You guys are going nuts over something that doesn't matter. If there is a copyright infringement, the offended party will notify you. At that time, remove the offending content. There is never going to be a lawsuit against wikipedia unless you guys delete everybody's contributions and start copying everything from the Encyclopedia Britannica. Instead you are wasting your time trying to protect wikipedia from a threat that does not exist and in the process you are turning wikipedia into a police state. Same with your decision to use the GFDL.
The anonymous user above would be well advised not to rely on getting a cease-and-desist notice if s/he infringes the copyright law of another country, while uploading material to Wikipedia. Many countries do not take such a lenient view of copyright infringement, and prefer to seize evidence and bring charges immediately. -- Tim Starling 01:54 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
I, for one, am not "going nuts." In fact, I distinctly said that "this isn't necessarily all that big of a deal, but an appropriate disclaimer/warning should be included on the Wikipedia:Copyrights page [in re international copyright issues]."
Apples and oranges: The Wikipedia:Copyrights article needs to provide an appropriate disclaimer/warning in re international copyright issues. This has absolutely nothing to do with overzealous enforcement of potential copyright infringement by busybodies and control freaks, something which I have spoken out against repeatedly. To wit, beyond the issue of quality control, there is no need whatsoever for Wikipedians to assume the role of copyright police. -- NetEsq 02:48 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
I would like to know if it is possible to translate an article of the encyclopedia to edit it in the french part. For example, since the notice about Hemingway in french is really small, it would be interesting to translate in french the existing one in english. Thank you David
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I suggest changing the final bullet to:
I suggest this change because under section 4J of the license, users of the material are required to "Preserve the network location ..... for previous versions it was based on". So linking back to Wikipedia isn't optional as a way for crediting history and giving a transparent copy, as the existing wording implies; it is demanded by the license.
Could someone with a good understanding of the license check I have understood this correctly? Enchanter 15:51 Aug 21, 2002 (PDT)
Question - do quotations come under the guidelines on this page? I'm currently doing lots of stuff to the pages dealing with Neil Gaiman's Sandman stories, and sometimes use quotations from the original in the entries. Do I need to include a copyright notice for these? AW
Yes, I'd suggest preserving copyright notices, along with some kind of "Used pursuant to 17 USC §107" notice. Otherwise, it's borderline plagiarism. (Plagiarism != infringement. Not crediting is plagiarism; breaking the fair use guidelines is infringement.) -- Damian Yerrick
Could someone clatify the status of public domain works? The whole of the article Victor Lustig was pasted from a web site marked "public domain". -- Tarquin
---
How does translating text fit in here? Most of the time translation is paraphrasing since exact translation is not possible with most languages. -- voidvector
I have a question ..... what is the meaning of copyright? Obviously very few of us actually "know" the person or object we are writing about. For example, when writing about Mary Queen of Scots I assume no one has actually met her to get a report on her life (!) so everything about her on this site must have been taken from an existing text.
So most of this encyclopaedia is copyright!!
My last statement is obviously nonsense so where does copyright end? Is it OK to rephrase an existing text in such a way that it cannot be recognised in the encyclopaedia? How different must it be?
I'm really puzzled. Help!!
Arpingstone 20:51 Jan 21, 2003 (UTC)
It's cool that we're allowed to copy individual articles from Wikipedia. But how about copying the entire thing ? What do I do if I want to, say, create a CD-ROM containing all of Wikipedia ? Maybe this should be explained here ? Or a link should be provided to a page explaining it ? ---- User:Eivind Jan 29, 2003
Are people allowed to quote from the Wikipedia? How long a quote can they take before it stops being fair use?
Seriously: I have no intention of contributing to an unquotable encyclopedia, any more than I would want to start a cancer plague. -- Uncle Ed 23:18 Feb 27, 2003 (UTC)
A discussion regarding Wikipedia's image use policy has brought up a very interesting question: What about copyright law in foreign jurisdictions?
( Bromberg & Sunstein, LLP - Copyright Durations - Foreign Rights and Works)
IMHO, this is a very serious concern for Wikipedia. -- NetEsq 02:28 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)
From your reference:
It was talk of "national treatment" similar to this statement that led me to write previously "Foreign copyright owners from such countries, whose rights are infringed by Wikipedia, would generally act against Wikipedia under US law". I was confused by the idea that the foreign copyright can be protected, but protected by the mechanism of national law. If copyright has expired in the US but not elsewhere, can a civil case be brought against Jimbo or Bomis in a US court? Are the protections for website owners, under DMCA, removed when it is a foreign copyright owner who is wronged? -- Tim Starling 02:46 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)
My *GUESS* is that United States law would obtain if suit were brought in a United States court, but that is only a guess. Moroever, if someone in the United Kingdom were to bring suit against Wikipedia in the United Kingdom, my guess is that the United Kingdom would apply the law of the United Kingdom, but (once again) that is only a guess. The implications of such forum shopping are truly mind-boggling. I vaguely remember a legal dispute some twenty years ago (not involving copyright) where the courts in these two countries claimed jurisdiction and dismissed the jurisdictional claims of the other country, and the litigants passed away long before the dispute was resolved, assuming that it ever was resolved. -- NetEsq 03:09 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)
I found an article that is totally on point: Conflict of Laws Issues in International Copyright Cases By Peter K. Yu. Basically, there is no "right" answer when it comes to international conflicts of copyright law, and anyone relying upon Wikipedia's GFDL in a foreign jurisdiction does so at his or her own risk. [Please note that nothing that I have posted here should be construed as a legal opinion or as constituting legal advice.] -- NetEsq 04:05 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)
This is my opinion (a non-lawyer's) based on the spirit of the GFDL, rather than the letter. When you licence a work under the GFDL, you licence it so that everyone can use it. You explicitly say "You may copy and distribute the Document in any medium". If the work may not be copied and distributed outside the US, then you may not licence it under the GFDL. Note that the GFDL doesn't allow you to place geographical restrictions on who can copy it, so you can't say that "Wikipedia text is licensed under the GFDL for use in the US only". Hence, all data submitted has to be legal under all copyright law - essentially this means following the union of US law, EU law, and the Berne convention. Martin
In theory, that's all well and good, but there is no guarantee on how foreign jurisdictions will interpret the GFDL. They can do whatever they want. In fact, there is no guarantee as to how courts in the United States might interpret copyright claims (public domain or otherwise) based on foreign publication.
Based upon my initial research, I am of the opinion that the GFDL *IS* in fact limited to publications within the context of United States copyright law. It does not -- and cannot -- take the copyright law of foreign jurisdictions into account. This is an unsettled area of the law, and those who contribute or publish content outside of the jurisdiction of the United States do so at their own risk.
In other words, as stated by Tim Starling above, those who upload or contribute content to Wikipedia are obliged to comply with the copyright law in the jursidiction where they upload or contribute content, whereas those who download and/or publish content from Wikipedia must comply with the copyright law in their jurisdiction. Contrary to assertions made above, the Berne convention does *NOT* provide appropriate "choice of law" provisions. -- NetEsq 17:31 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)
And French don't use Linux.... Ericd 21:16 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)
( Open source and copyright law.)
You guys are going nuts over something that doesn't matter. If there is a copyright infringement, the offended party will notify you. At that time, remove the offending content. There is never going to be a lawsuit against wikipedia unless you guys delete everybody's contributions and start copying everything from the Encyclopedia Britannica. Instead you are wasting your time trying to protect wikipedia from a threat that does not exist and in the process you are turning wikipedia into a police state. Same with your decision to use the GFDL.
The anonymous user above would be well advised not to rely on getting a cease-and-desist notice if s/he infringes the copyright law of another country, while uploading material to Wikipedia. Many countries do not take such a lenient view of copyright infringement, and prefer to seize evidence and bring charges immediately. -- Tim Starling 01:54 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
I, for one, am not "going nuts." In fact, I distinctly said that "this isn't necessarily all that big of a deal, but an appropriate disclaimer/warning should be included on the Wikipedia:Copyrights page [in re international copyright issues]."
Apples and oranges: The Wikipedia:Copyrights article needs to provide an appropriate disclaimer/warning in re international copyright issues. This has absolutely nothing to do with overzealous enforcement of potential copyright infringement by busybodies and control freaks, something which I have spoken out against repeatedly. To wit, beyond the issue of quality control, there is no need whatsoever for Wikipedians to assume the role of copyright police. -- NetEsq 02:48 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
I would like to know if it is possible to translate an article of the encyclopedia to edit it in the french part. For example, since the notice about Hemingway in french is really small, it would be interesting to translate in french the existing one in english. Thank you David