![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
This page is for discussion/improvement of the Community Portal. For general questions about Wikipedia, see Wikipedia FAQ and the Village pump.
The following subsections of this page have been moved into the Template namespace to make them editable; see Editing the main page for details. Purge the cache
Archives: Feb-Mar 2004: Discussion about creating the page and adding a link to the sidebar
A vandal fiddled with it, and I decided that we probably want this main page protected semi-permanently, just like the main page. If you disagree, please say so here. I will list this at Wikipedia:Protected page also. Thanks. :) Jwrosenzweig 23:22, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Jdforrester had a great idea that I was able to make reality. I created Template:February 26 and referenced it via {{msg:{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}}_{{CURRENTDAY}}}} to get:
We could really use a feedback link at the top/bottom of each page, which runs an appopriate script
Say, gives the users an edit page that appends a comment to the end of a new Feedback page? to the MediaWiki bug report/feature request page? to the top of a "Cleanup (raw)" page? and pre-fills in what page they were on when they clicked the link, a user/timestamp, and what their prefs settings are
The problem: often I encountered a problem with WP ("what links here" fxnality breaking, the sidebar working in an unexpected fashion, a key page obviously missing (but I'm unclear where to put it), a kind of debate/interaction that makes me want to go away and not come back for a few months -- and there's no obvious or appropriate way to express my observation. Making it easier for users to provide feedback is important to making the project better, and to better serving/hearing from a reliable cross-section of its audience. +sj+ 09:20, 2004 Feb 27 (UTC)
Shouldn't the Community Portal page be protected just as much as the Main Page is? RickK 02:24, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I've been away for a few months and this is the first time I've seen this new arrangement. I'm impressed. The main page looks very interesting and professional, and I like the idea of this "community portal". I'm a bit puzzled though that there seems to be no link to the Meta-Wikipedia as far as I can see. I always thought Meta was a very important facility that was grossly underused. Is it now official policy that Meta-type discussion should be carried out only by E-mail, with all its disadvantages? GrahamN 03:28, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Why has it been put down at the bottom, where no one will ever see it? Surely it would be better to put it prominently up at the top somewhere, or at least in the middle, under "ways to communicate"; unless it is now official policy that Meta-type discussion should be carried out only on the mailing lists. Is it? GrahamN 16:48, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I propose that Wikipedia:Goings-on is merged into this page. To reduce the amount of scrolling,
I further suggest that the current archiving process is reconsidered, because it makes it very easy to miss updates. The archives are also not particularly helpful, as there are too few items per page, so e.g. you have no complete log on one page of featured articles on the Main Page.
Instead, each box should have their own archive:
Pages would be added to these archives whenever the respective sections get too long.
Comments:
This would increase the incentive to visit the Community Portal, and to keep goings-on updated. If there are no objections, I will do this ASAP.
—Eloquence 08:18, Mar 29, 2004 (UTC)
The Get involved section is poorly updated (how long has Talk:Evolution been listed there now?). We need something better, and we could use material from Goings-on instead. But there is way too much stuff at Goings-on that we would lose in a merge. The mailing list synopses, for example, are an excellent substitute for people who don't want to subscribe. People need a place to go for information they've missed out on, especially because events happen quickly and many places have high turnover. We could, however, merge Goings-on with Announcements; those two seem to have overlapping functions. -- Michael Snow 18:37, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Eloquence states that one of the reasons to merge them is that the Community Portal isn't terribly newbie-friendly. It seems like adding the content from Goings-on will only add to that. Right now the topics are: Syntax Extensions - discussion about proposed ways to include different markup for music, hieroglyphs, plots, graphics, etc.; The Accuser of Kobe Bryant (reprise); Proposal to Merge Goings-on with Community Portal; and Revamping of Boilerplate Request for Permission.
BCorr|
Брайен 19:07, Mar 31, 2004 (UTC)
Spent the last 30 minutes going back and forth between both pages. A more interesting, integrated Community Portal is definitely needed. Merging the pages would facilitate this. Also, the increased eyeballs on a single page will address the initial concerns about disorganization because it will inevitably result in more edits and better layout. I will rehash
Eloquence, the Community Portal should be targeted to all Wikipedians with a more developed
Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers page linked prominently. Merging the pages would add value to the left-hand side menu bar and simplify the namespace- two big bonuses. The real significance of this vote is not simply "merging the pages" but is changing the purpose of the Community Portal to being a place that has value for everyone. Merging is a step in the right direction. --
Chevan
Support:
Oppose:
Undecided:
Curiously, the Schools FAQ link was recently deleted and allowed to remain deleted after another donor made the edit, but when the original donor of the article earlier attempted to remove the link, citing the same general errors and imcompletion in the article, the original donor was widely treated as a vandal. The primary difference in the claims that eventually led to the durable removale was that the final removal included the allegation that the article was "Bird product." Apparently the tradition of weeding out "bad actors" instead of confronting "innacurate information" allowed the link to be deleted when it was attributed to a "bad actor". The same band of thugs that refused to allow the orignial donor to make further edits related to an article nobody else was actively involved with are continuing to bar efforts to correct the errors cited in edit summaries and talk pages. Even more curiously, the process that led to the original donor being treated as a "vandal" was exaclty the process Wikipedia encourages - in which donors are solicited to contribute information to the best of their knowledge in hopes that they or others will come along and fix the article. A donor created an article reflecting a very narrow point of view that endorsed wikipedia. When the donor used that knowledge to develop countervailing knowledge that was critical of Wikipedia as an academic resource, those defending an encyclopedia salesman's POV about Wikipedia concluded the attempt at balance and accurcy was vandalism. The primary result of the conflict was that a very astute and resourceful donor choose to advance the case that collegial behavior is not always the best approach to participation in the editorial collectivity assembled here, authored articles for other publications highly critical of Wikipedia, and began providing technical assistance to parties who aggressively oppose Wikipedia. Now this donor determines to be a bad actor in as much as other donors maintain the claim that some people are bad and have nothing to offer a community, rather than working from a scholarly posture that examines information on its merits alone. (anon)
Since the New to Wikipedia stuff was combined into the introductory paragraph, I don't think we need the separate New user information category. That category contains very little and mostly duplicates stuff found at the top of the page (we could stand to get a link to Welcome, newcomers in the intro, though). Real newbies will never find one category mixed in with a bunch of others, but there's a good chance they'll read the opening text. I also prefer Goings-on back in the Get involved section where it was, with the icon. -- Michael Snow 17:12, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Why has the introduction moved to the bottom? That doesn't seem a sensible place for it to be. Angela . 00:49, May 1, 2004 (UTC)
Ok, we have links to where to vote for the AOTW, but we need an announcement somewhere semi-prominent saying that this week's article is Situs inversus. Where should this go? Isomorphic 16:06, 3 May 2004 (UTC)
How about launching a link-chain contest? Take two random titles, e.g., incest and electronics, and see who can build the shortest sequence of articles starting with incest and ending with electronics where each article is linked to the next one. Adding links to articles to make the chain shorter should be allowed provided they are appropriate (appropriateness can be voted). This way, the contest would promote both reading and editing. -- Lev 18:28, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
The new Election link added yesterday now breaks the layout in Mozilla 1.6 (win2k). The tables following the link are now restricted to the width of the election link. I viewed the revision before the link was added, and everything displayed fine at that point. RedWolf 16:05, 31 May 2004 (UTC)
I noticed today that since there is the new Wikipedia software (or at least since today), I see squares instead of characters with carons (lie š,č..., e.g. in Slovak language). Could someone tell me, what the problem might be? Juro
This is not a criticism, but rather a question. I just spent some time editing an article on the Community Portal page caller Maxim Kammerer. I was just putting in some links and editing spelling and such, but during the course of this, I was reading some of the article. It appears to basically be a book review. Isn't this site meant for encylopedic content? And would a book review be considered as such? I would think an article about a book would say something about the authors, book contents, and other knowledge, but a book summary seems strange for an encyclopedia. Could someone comment on this please. I am relatively new here and don't know exactly what is acceptable yet.
Skyler 19:05, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)
Hello. I'm in a class, and I've copied information on Ayn Rand to paper. Since we are all paranoid, my teacher INSISTS on giving credit to all the authors of the page. Knowing my teacher, she doesn't know of (or understand?) the GNU license. What should I do? What does Wikipedia say? Do I just have to say "I got it from Ayn Rand"? That seems to satisify myself... What do most people do in these situations? How can I teach my educators about Free Software, the GNU licenses, and that it's possible that some material is meant for education (in such my case)?
Has anyone here ever thought of the possibility of creating a wiki national news source? Indymedia is struggling to get off the ground - and it's still riddled with logistics problems. But, one thing it's been able to do is to encourage ordinary people at the location of news events to get out and do video and photo documentation.. which has been used very creatively in at least one television broadcast program which I've seen.
One thing I really admire about the designers of wikipedia, is that they have very thoughtfully accounted for social logistics. It's a miracle that this place works in the manner it does - and it's because of a very thoughtful design of the auspices. In like manner, members of our community ought to, perhaps, start contributing ideas towards the construction of a wiki web news source... Rainbird 20:29, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Something appears to be broken on this page, as the various links headings suddenly are crammed into the Tip of the day box. -- Michael Snow 21:32, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this should belong here, but does anyone else think that the paragraphs in Wikipedia are a little too closely cramped together? I hope it's not presumptuous for a newbie to be questioning such a long-time tradition but I find that my eyes have trouble differentiating one paragraph from another, especially in long articles where there are many paragraphs to a section/sub-section. It would serve readers better if article paragraphs are spaced out just a bit more so that paragraphs are distinguishable through jungles of text. This is of course a technical issue which can only be solved across Wikipedia by the programmers - but a quick change of a single variable in the CSS should do it. Wilz (Talk) 16:51, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Maybe I'm blind, but every time I spot some vandalism I struggle to find the page(s) on Wikipedia describing what to do about it. I can't see it on the main page or on this page, which is to me the obivous place to look. If I'm right, could we have a link to the relevant pages from this page? Thanks. -- S
Am I the only one who noticed that there is something wrong with the links of the 'update' part/section, under the 'things you can do' box. I really don't think is's supposed to link here As_of or here Special:Whatlinkshere/As_of_1911. Will someone who knows more than me look this up. Thanks. Cal 1234 15:52, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)
If one article (A) is merged into another article (B), should those who edited the former (A) be credited? If so, how?-- Logariasmo 18:50, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Should the subCOTWs articles be listed there in the COTW section? IMO yes, either remove the quote from the main COTW text or downsize the text. Then, add the subCOTWs something like this:
What do people think? JOHN COLLISON | (Ludraman) 17:00, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
This page is marked up quite badly, I think -div-s should be used instead of tables, and I don't think that -center- tags etc should be used at all.
As a result, the page code is huge and hard to follow.
Should I try and fix the markup, (offline first)?
-A Wikipedia newbie
AAAAH!!! I went to Recent Changes and I have this freaky The Willy on Wheels thingy! This is a very disturbing annoyance and I need some admin to somehow purge this from the history (I have a feeling that he used the summaries to plant it there). HELP! HELP! Ambush Commander 00:01, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)
Can the talk pages be shortened - getting long enough for the system to complain.
Could some form of date-system for queries etc be returned to - present system too cumbersome (especially when Wikipedia is slow, and there is limited time available).
A link to the encyclopedia listings again would be useful - I was going to extend some of them, but can't find them.
Unfortunately I have not been able to post a remark for a specific Wikipage: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksander_Suworow" as it says that the article does not exist (though it does exist). How can I do this?
The problem is that the last bit of information given there (on Suvorov shooting soldiers who refused to attack the enemy and the resons of his victories) is a little biased or at least too limited, so probably there are people who will be able to check it and edit the article in a more objective (?) way.
Inogoro
But where??!!
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
This page is for discussion/improvement of the Community Portal. For general questions about Wikipedia, see Wikipedia FAQ and the Village pump.
The following subsections of this page have been moved into the Template namespace to make them editable; see Editing the main page for details. Purge the cache
Archives: Feb-Mar 2004: Discussion about creating the page and adding a link to the sidebar
A vandal fiddled with it, and I decided that we probably want this main page protected semi-permanently, just like the main page. If you disagree, please say so here. I will list this at Wikipedia:Protected page also. Thanks. :) Jwrosenzweig 23:22, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Jdforrester had a great idea that I was able to make reality. I created Template:February 26 and referenced it via {{msg:{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}}_{{CURRENTDAY}}}} to get:
We could really use a feedback link at the top/bottom of each page, which runs an appopriate script
Say, gives the users an edit page that appends a comment to the end of a new Feedback page? to the MediaWiki bug report/feature request page? to the top of a "Cleanup (raw)" page? and pre-fills in what page they were on when they clicked the link, a user/timestamp, and what their prefs settings are
The problem: often I encountered a problem with WP ("what links here" fxnality breaking, the sidebar working in an unexpected fashion, a key page obviously missing (but I'm unclear where to put it), a kind of debate/interaction that makes me want to go away and not come back for a few months -- and there's no obvious or appropriate way to express my observation. Making it easier for users to provide feedback is important to making the project better, and to better serving/hearing from a reliable cross-section of its audience. +sj+ 09:20, 2004 Feb 27 (UTC)
Shouldn't the Community Portal page be protected just as much as the Main Page is? RickK 02:24, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I've been away for a few months and this is the first time I've seen this new arrangement. I'm impressed. The main page looks very interesting and professional, and I like the idea of this "community portal". I'm a bit puzzled though that there seems to be no link to the Meta-Wikipedia as far as I can see. I always thought Meta was a very important facility that was grossly underused. Is it now official policy that Meta-type discussion should be carried out only by E-mail, with all its disadvantages? GrahamN 03:28, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Why has it been put down at the bottom, where no one will ever see it? Surely it would be better to put it prominently up at the top somewhere, or at least in the middle, under "ways to communicate"; unless it is now official policy that Meta-type discussion should be carried out only on the mailing lists. Is it? GrahamN 16:48, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I propose that Wikipedia:Goings-on is merged into this page. To reduce the amount of scrolling,
I further suggest that the current archiving process is reconsidered, because it makes it very easy to miss updates. The archives are also not particularly helpful, as there are too few items per page, so e.g. you have no complete log on one page of featured articles on the Main Page.
Instead, each box should have their own archive:
Pages would be added to these archives whenever the respective sections get too long.
Comments:
This would increase the incentive to visit the Community Portal, and to keep goings-on updated. If there are no objections, I will do this ASAP.
—Eloquence 08:18, Mar 29, 2004 (UTC)
The Get involved section is poorly updated (how long has Talk:Evolution been listed there now?). We need something better, and we could use material from Goings-on instead. But there is way too much stuff at Goings-on that we would lose in a merge. The mailing list synopses, for example, are an excellent substitute for people who don't want to subscribe. People need a place to go for information they've missed out on, especially because events happen quickly and many places have high turnover. We could, however, merge Goings-on with Announcements; those two seem to have overlapping functions. -- Michael Snow 18:37, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Eloquence states that one of the reasons to merge them is that the Community Portal isn't terribly newbie-friendly. It seems like adding the content from Goings-on will only add to that. Right now the topics are: Syntax Extensions - discussion about proposed ways to include different markup for music, hieroglyphs, plots, graphics, etc.; The Accuser of Kobe Bryant (reprise); Proposal to Merge Goings-on with Community Portal; and Revamping of Boilerplate Request for Permission.
BCorr|
Брайен 19:07, Mar 31, 2004 (UTC)
Spent the last 30 minutes going back and forth between both pages. A more interesting, integrated Community Portal is definitely needed. Merging the pages would facilitate this. Also, the increased eyeballs on a single page will address the initial concerns about disorganization because it will inevitably result in more edits and better layout. I will rehash
Eloquence, the Community Portal should be targeted to all Wikipedians with a more developed
Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers page linked prominently. Merging the pages would add value to the left-hand side menu bar and simplify the namespace- two big bonuses. The real significance of this vote is not simply "merging the pages" but is changing the purpose of the Community Portal to being a place that has value for everyone. Merging is a step in the right direction. --
Chevan
Support:
Oppose:
Undecided:
Curiously, the Schools FAQ link was recently deleted and allowed to remain deleted after another donor made the edit, but when the original donor of the article earlier attempted to remove the link, citing the same general errors and imcompletion in the article, the original donor was widely treated as a vandal. The primary difference in the claims that eventually led to the durable removale was that the final removal included the allegation that the article was "Bird product." Apparently the tradition of weeding out "bad actors" instead of confronting "innacurate information" allowed the link to be deleted when it was attributed to a "bad actor". The same band of thugs that refused to allow the orignial donor to make further edits related to an article nobody else was actively involved with are continuing to bar efforts to correct the errors cited in edit summaries and talk pages. Even more curiously, the process that led to the original donor being treated as a "vandal" was exaclty the process Wikipedia encourages - in which donors are solicited to contribute information to the best of their knowledge in hopes that they or others will come along and fix the article. A donor created an article reflecting a very narrow point of view that endorsed wikipedia. When the donor used that knowledge to develop countervailing knowledge that was critical of Wikipedia as an academic resource, those defending an encyclopedia salesman's POV about Wikipedia concluded the attempt at balance and accurcy was vandalism. The primary result of the conflict was that a very astute and resourceful donor choose to advance the case that collegial behavior is not always the best approach to participation in the editorial collectivity assembled here, authored articles for other publications highly critical of Wikipedia, and began providing technical assistance to parties who aggressively oppose Wikipedia. Now this donor determines to be a bad actor in as much as other donors maintain the claim that some people are bad and have nothing to offer a community, rather than working from a scholarly posture that examines information on its merits alone. (anon)
Since the New to Wikipedia stuff was combined into the introductory paragraph, I don't think we need the separate New user information category. That category contains very little and mostly duplicates stuff found at the top of the page (we could stand to get a link to Welcome, newcomers in the intro, though). Real newbies will never find one category mixed in with a bunch of others, but there's a good chance they'll read the opening text. I also prefer Goings-on back in the Get involved section where it was, with the icon. -- Michael Snow 17:12, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Why has the introduction moved to the bottom? That doesn't seem a sensible place for it to be. Angela . 00:49, May 1, 2004 (UTC)
Ok, we have links to where to vote for the AOTW, but we need an announcement somewhere semi-prominent saying that this week's article is Situs inversus. Where should this go? Isomorphic 16:06, 3 May 2004 (UTC)
How about launching a link-chain contest? Take two random titles, e.g., incest and electronics, and see who can build the shortest sequence of articles starting with incest and ending with electronics where each article is linked to the next one. Adding links to articles to make the chain shorter should be allowed provided they are appropriate (appropriateness can be voted). This way, the contest would promote both reading and editing. -- Lev 18:28, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
The new Election link added yesterday now breaks the layout in Mozilla 1.6 (win2k). The tables following the link are now restricted to the width of the election link. I viewed the revision before the link was added, and everything displayed fine at that point. RedWolf 16:05, 31 May 2004 (UTC)
I noticed today that since there is the new Wikipedia software (or at least since today), I see squares instead of characters with carons (lie š,č..., e.g. in Slovak language). Could someone tell me, what the problem might be? Juro
This is not a criticism, but rather a question. I just spent some time editing an article on the Community Portal page caller Maxim Kammerer. I was just putting in some links and editing spelling and such, but during the course of this, I was reading some of the article. It appears to basically be a book review. Isn't this site meant for encylopedic content? And would a book review be considered as such? I would think an article about a book would say something about the authors, book contents, and other knowledge, but a book summary seems strange for an encyclopedia. Could someone comment on this please. I am relatively new here and don't know exactly what is acceptable yet.
Skyler 19:05, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)
Hello. I'm in a class, and I've copied information on Ayn Rand to paper. Since we are all paranoid, my teacher INSISTS on giving credit to all the authors of the page. Knowing my teacher, she doesn't know of (or understand?) the GNU license. What should I do? What does Wikipedia say? Do I just have to say "I got it from Ayn Rand"? That seems to satisify myself... What do most people do in these situations? How can I teach my educators about Free Software, the GNU licenses, and that it's possible that some material is meant for education (in such my case)?
Has anyone here ever thought of the possibility of creating a wiki national news source? Indymedia is struggling to get off the ground - and it's still riddled with logistics problems. But, one thing it's been able to do is to encourage ordinary people at the location of news events to get out and do video and photo documentation.. which has been used very creatively in at least one television broadcast program which I've seen.
One thing I really admire about the designers of wikipedia, is that they have very thoughtfully accounted for social logistics. It's a miracle that this place works in the manner it does - and it's because of a very thoughtful design of the auspices. In like manner, members of our community ought to, perhaps, start contributing ideas towards the construction of a wiki web news source... Rainbird 20:29, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Something appears to be broken on this page, as the various links headings suddenly are crammed into the Tip of the day box. -- Michael Snow 21:32, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this should belong here, but does anyone else think that the paragraphs in Wikipedia are a little too closely cramped together? I hope it's not presumptuous for a newbie to be questioning such a long-time tradition but I find that my eyes have trouble differentiating one paragraph from another, especially in long articles where there are many paragraphs to a section/sub-section. It would serve readers better if article paragraphs are spaced out just a bit more so that paragraphs are distinguishable through jungles of text. This is of course a technical issue which can only be solved across Wikipedia by the programmers - but a quick change of a single variable in the CSS should do it. Wilz (Talk) 16:51, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Maybe I'm blind, but every time I spot some vandalism I struggle to find the page(s) on Wikipedia describing what to do about it. I can't see it on the main page or on this page, which is to me the obivous place to look. If I'm right, could we have a link to the relevant pages from this page? Thanks. -- S
Am I the only one who noticed that there is something wrong with the links of the 'update' part/section, under the 'things you can do' box. I really don't think is's supposed to link here As_of or here Special:Whatlinkshere/As_of_1911. Will someone who knows more than me look this up. Thanks. Cal 1234 15:52, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)
If one article (A) is merged into another article (B), should those who edited the former (A) be credited? If so, how?-- Logariasmo 18:50, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Should the subCOTWs articles be listed there in the COTW section? IMO yes, either remove the quote from the main COTW text or downsize the text. Then, add the subCOTWs something like this:
What do people think? JOHN COLLISON | (Ludraman) 17:00, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
This page is marked up quite badly, I think -div-s should be used instead of tables, and I don't think that -center- tags etc should be used at all.
As a result, the page code is huge and hard to follow.
Should I try and fix the markup, (offline first)?
-A Wikipedia newbie
AAAAH!!! I went to Recent Changes and I have this freaky The Willy on Wheels thingy! This is a very disturbing annoyance and I need some admin to somehow purge this from the history (I have a feeling that he used the summaries to plant it there). HELP! HELP! Ambush Commander 00:01, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)
Can the talk pages be shortened - getting long enough for the system to complain.
Could some form of date-system for queries etc be returned to - present system too cumbersome (especially when Wikipedia is slow, and there is limited time available).
A link to the encyclopedia listings again would be useful - I was going to extend some of them, but can't find them.
Unfortunately I have not been able to post a remark for a specific Wikipage: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksander_Suworow" as it says that the article does not exist (though it does exist). How can I do this?
The problem is that the last bit of information given there (on Suvorov shooting soldiers who refused to attack the enemy and the resons of his victories) is a little biased or at least too limited, so probably there are people who will be able to check it and edit the article in a more objective (?) way.
Inogoro
But where??!!