Meeting closed. Minutes available on project page. Computerjoe 's talk 17:02, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Following the first Community Justice election, we believe it is time for another meeting. This time, we ask non-councillors, non-chief executive and non-chair to contribute in the discussion section.
Please can councillors reply directly in the agenda section.
The minutes off the last meeting are located at Wikipedia:Community Justice/Meeting.
This meeting will end on SunMonday May 28 2006.
Computerjoe
's talk 17:26, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Extended until Wednesday Computerjoe 's talk 15:46, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Many users on Wikipedia talk:Community Justice and it's archive have stressed how they want a name change. I'm wishing to get councillor's opinions on changing our name from Community Justice to something else. If you are in favour of a namechange, please suggest an alternative. Computerjoe 's talk 17:26, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I suspended one user, Ethnopunk ( talk · contribs) over various personal attacks and the personal attack made on the CJ page itself [1]. Computerjoe 's talk 17:26, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Ethnopunk is welcome to post his side below this line:
(if Ethnopunk chooses to, please can he put it here). Thank you. Firstly I live in a developing country that was under a blanket ban for many years. We are only now seeing ADSL penetration. Secondly, you're all so way ahead of yourselves that you fail to understand why I joined CJ in the first place -- to escape the wild-west system of rules and justice and people who game the system, use wiki's own rules to suppress information, create precedent in the absence of participation and make us all look bad by ignoring consensus debate or discussion. Admittedly, this was done in the midst of a flame war.
Thirdly, I do tend to get mad when people like Schumiweb delete articles without allowing for reverts or discussion. What should one do if this happens? Also I've noticed that some users on Wiki seem to have more rights than others, is this because of skill level, or perhaps they're able to hack into the system? In short, I am trying to reform my evil ways, if only youll give me time to find my way around without gunning for me. I apologise for the misunderstanding and initial flame.
The council may decide if shall be expelled from CJ, giving a timed suspension or no action. I urge you to rescind your votes made without my having put forward my side of the story. Ethnopunk 07:27, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
XChrisblackx proposed putting the editor on probation. More details found in the discussion section. If in favour of this, please add your name below. Computerjoe 's talk 17:39, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
JesusWChrist ( talk · contribs) was expelled by me as he was giving an indefinate username block. If anyone wishes him to be re-admitted please post your objection below. Computerjoe 's talk 17:26, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Rx StrangeLove had concerns over Misza13 ( talk · contribs)'s conduct. Personally, I have no interest for action. If anyone objects, please state it. Thanks. Computerjoe 's talk 17:26, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
There have been concern over my civility, as stated here. Naturally, I don't wish for any action to be taken. If you have any objections, please state it. Computerjoe 's talk 17:26, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm asking for members to create a barnstar for excellent contributions to WP:CJ. Computerjoe 's talk 17:41, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
The Civility Barnstar has been designed, and I'm just asking as to how it should be rolled out. Should we retain control or send it to Wikipedia:Barnstars and give the control to Wikipedia:Kindness Campaign. Computerjoe 's talk 17:31, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I say let all give and recieve. Mind you, no-one owns or controls anything on Wikipedia. Ian13/ talk 16:14, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
We should only give it to people who deserve it. If we hand it out to everyone, it'll be worth nothing. However, it shouldnt be exclusive to the point that almost nobody qualifies for it. However, once it is put on WP:Barnstars, people can give it out themselves. But at least we can monitor and make changes to it accordingly - • Th e Giant Puffin • 19:27, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
SCZenz has stated he has concerns of the server strain caused by {{ tracker}}. I am asking for the council's thoughts on phasing it out.
For pages currently using {{ tracker}} I'll add a category, and keep tracker in place. However, I'll remove tracker from the templates and a category. Computerjoe 's talk 19:06, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm asking for the council's thoughts on the progress of the above templates. You can see the usage of some of these templates at Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Tracker. Computerjoe 's talk 17:41, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm asking for a review of CJ on the whole. Please consider factors such as respect, membership and progress on our goals and tasks. Computerjoe 's talk 18:02, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
See Tijauna Brass's statement about setting ourselves apart from organizations such as Esperanza below, which I agree with. -- Osbus 00:42, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
The Community Justice council welcomes feedback from members. Please post your suggestions and concerns in the appropriate category below. Thanks.
As noted in the general talk page, the use of "Justice" and accompanying legal imagery (Lady Justice, scales) are misleading as to what the stated goals of CJ are. The suggestion that "it hasn't stopped 60 people from joining" is really irrelevant; I don't think many would see consider it grounds for ditching a civility-promoting program (I certainly wouldn't). What's important is whether it is an appropriate representation, and it's straying in a different direction. Tijuana Brass ¡Épa!- E@ 23:42, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I think the name is important. The name reflects who we are as an organization and our goals. And right now, Community Justice, the scales, and the law-looking images aren't reflecting our goals. -- Osbus 18:10, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
To those who support a name change: If we removed the law-related images and replaced it with, say, teacups, would the name "Community Justice" be suitable? Or is it the language in the name? I want to know where you are coming from. (^'-')^ Covington 21:21, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
I like retaining "Community" in the term, with what it implies. "Justice" still brings up that mental legal imagery for me, but I think Covington is moving in the right direction. I liked Civility Commission, but I understand the concerns that it sounds too... "official." Some more ideas (rearrange the words as you will to make it sound better): Civility Campaign, Community Equity, Community Equality, Wikicommunity... err... guess I ran out after only four. Tijuana Brass ¡Épa!- E@ 05:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Here are some suggestions without the word "justice". I tried to pick good sounding names that reflect our goals and that do not sound like other Wikipedian groups' names. (^'-')^ Covington 15:24, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I thought I would make a few suggestions and decided to go down the foriegn language route:
The translations all feature on our main page, mostly in the goals section - • Th e Giant Puffin • 18:03, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I like The Civility Project...that sounds cool. We could call ourselves the CP, double cool. -- Osbus 19:14, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I liked both Civility Project and Civility Campaign. Have to agree with it being clear that we're an org and not a Wikiproject, and that it wouldn't cause any problems. As far as the foreign language names go, I'd be more concerned about the question of the translation of meaning. For example, while fresco does translate to "cool" in English, the slang doesn't carry over. It'd be similar to calling our group something like "Stay lukewarm." I did like the creative approach, though... good thinking. Tijuana Brass ¡Épa!- E@ 23:21, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I suggest a probation for each where our best members watch them and remind them daily to keep theirselves civil. The choice if they don't want to go on probation is that they are all banned from CJ Mahoga ny (it sounds harsh but I've seen this type of thing in action and it tends to go well :)
I support its creation, and would give it to all the election staff, for doing such a great job. You know. - zappa.jak e ( talk) 22:52, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I too wish to add my support on this. -- S iva1979 Talk to me 15:45, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
I also support its creation JRA WestyQld2 04:56, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Is this a straw poll now? Keep it. I love it. It's good to reward civility, not just remind others to adhere to it. Tijuana Brass ¡Épa!- E@ 05:26, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I have thought of a way to replace this. In the current tracker we add a category, and in Civil1 and Civil2 we add categories and remove tracker. Whoola! Computerjoe 's talk 18:19, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Can't be done now. Computerjoe 's talk 06:52, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Not looking to be a gadfly, but in what way is the council planning on distinguishing CJ from Wikipedia:Kindness Campaign and Wikipedia:Esperanza? Both have similar goals — what unfulfilled role is CJ taking up? There's been some action, in creating a few templates, but the "promoting civility" agenda doesn't seem to have done much beyond that at the time. What is CJ looking forward to in terms of future goals? Tijuana Brass ¡Épa!- E@ 23:47, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Ending on Sunday May 28th? Isn't that a little long, especially considering that the other one was about 4 days long? It just sort of becomes an extended talk page in a sense. Any thoughts? — Ilyan e p (Talk) 22:58, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Meeting closed. Minutes available on project page. Computerjoe 's talk 17:02, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Following the first Community Justice election, we believe it is time for another meeting. This time, we ask non-councillors, non-chief executive and non-chair to contribute in the discussion section.
Please can councillors reply directly in the agenda section.
The minutes off the last meeting are located at Wikipedia:Community Justice/Meeting.
This meeting will end on SunMonday May 28 2006.
Computerjoe
's talk 17:26, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Extended until Wednesday Computerjoe 's talk 15:46, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Many users on Wikipedia talk:Community Justice and it's archive have stressed how they want a name change. I'm wishing to get councillor's opinions on changing our name from Community Justice to something else. If you are in favour of a namechange, please suggest an alternative. Computerjoe 's talk 17:26, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I suspended one user, Ethnopunk ( talk · contribs) over various personal attacks and the personal attack made on the CJ page itself [1]. Computerjoe 's talk 17:26, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Ethnopunk is welcome to post his side below this line:
(if Ethnopunk chooses to, please can he put it here). Thank you. Firstly I live in a developing country that was under a blanket ban for many years. We are only now seeing ADSL penetration. Secondly, you're all so way ahead of yourselves that you fail to understand why I joined CJ in the first place -- to escape the wild-west system of rules and justice and people who game the system, use wiki's own rules to suppress information, create precedent in the absence of participation and make us all look bad by ignoring consensus debate or discussion. Admittedly, this was done in the midst of a flame war.
Thirdly, I do tend to get mad when people like Schumiweb delete articles without allowing for reverts or discussion. What should one do if this happens? Also I've noticed that some users on Wiki seem to have more rights than others, is this because of skill level, or perhaps they're able to hack into the system? In short, I am trying to reform my evil ways, if only youll give me time to find my way around without gunning for me. I apologise for the misunderstanding and initial flame.
The council may decide if shall be expelled from CJ, giving a timed suspension or no action. I urge you to rescind your votes made without my having put forward my side of the story. Ethnopunk 07:27, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
XChrisblackx proposed putting the editor on probation. More details found in the discussion section. If in favour of this, please add your name below. Computerjoe 's talk 17:39, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
JesusWChrist ( talk · contribs) was expelled by me as he was giving an indefinate username block. If anyone wishes him to be re-admitted please post your objection below. Computerjoe 's talk 17:26, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Rx StrangeLove had concerns over Misza13 ( talk · contribs)'s conduct. Personally, I have no interest for action. If anyone objects, please state it. Thanks. Computerjoe 's talk 17:26, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
There have been concern over my civility, as stated here. Naturally, I don't wish for any action to be taken. If you have any objections, please state it. Computerjoe 's talk 17:26, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm asking for members to create a barnstar for excellent contributions to WP:CJ. Computerjoe 's talk 17:41, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
The Civility Barnstar has been designed, and I'm just asking as to how it should be rolled out. Should we retain control or send it to Wikipedia:Barnstars and give the control to Wikipedia:Kindness Campaign. Computerjoe 's talk 17:31, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I say let all give and recieve. Mind you, no-one owns or controls anything on Wikipedia. Ian13/ talk 16:14, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
We should only give it to people who deserve it. If we hand it out to everyone, it'll be worth nothing. However, it shouldnt be exclusive to the point that almost nobody qualifies for it. However, once it is put on WP:Barnstars, people can give it out themselves. But at least we can monitor and make changes to it accordingly - • Th e Giant Puffin • 19:27, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
SCZenz has stated he has concerns of the server strain caused by {{ tracker}}. I am asking for the council's thoughts on phasing it out.
For pages currently using {{ tracker}} I'll add a category, and keep tracker in place. However, I'll remove tracker from the templates and a category. Computerjoe 's talk 19:06, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm asking for the council's thoughts on the progress of the above templates. You can see the usage of some of these templates at Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Tracker. Computerjoe 's talk 17:41, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm asking for a review of CJ on the whole. Please consider factors such as respect, membership and progress on our goals and tasks. Computerjoe 's talk 18:02, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
See Tijauna Brass's statement about setting ourselves apart from organizations such as Esperanza below, which I agree with. -- Osbus 00:42, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
The Community Justice council welcomes feedback from members. Please post your suggestions and concerns in the appropriate category below. Thanks.
As noted in the general talk page, the use of "Justice" and accompanying legal imagery (Lady Justice, scales) are misleading as to what the stated goals of CJ are. The suggestion that "it hasn't stopped 60 people from joining" is really irrelevant; I don't think many would see consider it grounds for ditching a civility-promoting program (I certainly wouldn't). What's important is whether it is an appropriate representation, and it's straying in a different direction. Tijuana Brass ¡Épa!- E@ 23:42, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I think the name is important. The name reflects who we are as an organization and our goals. And right now, Community Justice, the scales, and the law-looking images aren't reflecting our goals. -- Osbus 18:10, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
To those who support a name change: If we removed the law-related images and replaced it with, say, teacups, would the name "Community Justice" be suitable? Or is it the language in the name? I want to know where you are coming from. (^'-')^ Covington 21:21, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
I like retaining "Community" in the term, with what it implies. "Justice" still brings up that mental legal imagery for me, but I think Covington is moving in the right direction. I liked Civility Commission, but I understand the concerns that it sounds too... "official." Some more ideas (rearrange the words as you will to make it sound better): Civility Campaign, Community Equity, Community Equality, Wikicommunity... err... guess I ran out after only four. Tijuana Brass ¡Épa!- E@ 05:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Here are some suggestions without the word "justice". I tried to pick good sounding names that reflect our goals and that do not sound like other Wikipedian groups' names. (^'-')^ Covington 15:24, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I thought I would make a few suggestions and decided to go down the foriegn language route:
The translations all feature on our main page, mostly in the goals section - • Th e Giant Puffin • 18:03, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I like The Civility Project...that sounds cool. We could call ourselves the CP, double cool. -- Osbus 19:14, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I liked both Civility Project and Civility Campaign. Have to agree with it being clear that we're an org and not a Wikiproject, and that it wouldn't cause any problems. As far as the foreign language names go, I'd be more concerned about the question of the translation of meaning. For example, while fresco does translate to "cool" in English, the slang doesn't carry over. It'd be similar to calling our group something like "Stay lukewarm." I did like the creative approach, though... good thinking. Tijuana Brass ¡Épa!- E@ 23:21, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I suggest a probation for each where our best members watch them and remind them daily to keep theirselves civil. The choice if they don't want to go on probation is that they are all banned from CJ Mahoga ny (it sounds harsh but I've seen this type of thing in action and it tends to go well :)
I support its creation, and would give it to all the election staff, for doing such a great job. You know. - zappa.jak e ( talk) 22:52, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I too wish to add my support on this. -- S iva1979 Talk to me 15:45, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
I also support its creation JRA WestyQld2 04:56, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Is this a straw poll now? Keep it. I love it. It's good to reward civility, not just remind others to adhere to it. Tijuana Brass ¡Épa!- E@ 05:26, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I have thought of a way to replace this. In the current tracker we add a category, and in Civil1 and Civil2 we add categories and remove tracker. Whoola! Computerjoe 's talk 18:19, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Can't be done now. Computerjoe 's talk 06:52, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Not looking to be a gadfly, but in what way is the council planning on distinguishing CJ from Wikipedia:Kindness Campaign and Wikipedia:Esperanza? Both have similar goals — what unfulfilled role is CJ taking up? There's been some action, in creating a few templates, but the "promoting civility" agenda doesn't seem to have done much beyond that at the time. What is CJ looking forward to in terms of future goals? Tijuana Brass ¡Épa!- E@ 23:47, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Ending on Sunday May 28th? Isn't that a little long, especially considering that the other one was about 4 days long? It just sort of becomes an extended talk page in a sense. Any thoughts? — Ilyan e p (Talk) 22:58, 5 May 2006 (UTC)