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I went through a couple of grad degrees in history and the social sciences at a time (many years ago) when "academic proficiency" in at least two foreign languages was a requirement. I became proficient in reading French & German (and sometimes Latin) academic texts, a bit less so in writing them, and much less so in face-to-face conversation -- what an English-speaker needs for conducting research in original sources, but not much use on a vacation, in other words. Poring over the definitions and discussions for the five Babel levels tells me they don't really apply to my case. Anyone else think this might be a parallel classification issue? Or something? -- Michael K. Smith ( talk) 01:14, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
I think the nb Babel boxes should display nb, and not no (which they, incdredibly, do). The no boxes that contain a mention of Bokmål should lose it; we have the nb boxes for that. Just like the nn boxes for Nynorsk. no is a generic reference to Norwegian. See also Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2009_February_4 -- Gamlevegen ( talk) 19:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC) Edited to fix link.-- Gamlevegen ( talk) 02:55, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
I have been reminded that because some of the Wikimedia projecs in the no. sub-domain are in Bokmål without any Nynorsk, it might be useful to let the nb boxes continue to display no. On the other hand, we could just all use an no box in addition to our nb box. We can be displayed in Category:User_no in both cases, or even without doing either.-- Gamlevegen ( talk) 12:59, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
Although I haven't quite finished, I have now made even more changes than I had thought I would at this stage. They are all direct or indirect consequences of the decision you can read about if you click on the deletion review link above. This does not mean we have to keep it like it is now. It is rather an opportunity to start over, having corrected a mistake from the past. As an example, I am no fundamentalist about such things as nb-3 boxes pointing to the no-3 category in addition to nb-3, and I don't know the wishes of the very few no-5 users yet. I'll still see if I missed something, to make it more consistent. If you have ideas or corrections, they can be discussed here.-- Gamlevegen ( talk) 18:59, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
I found out today that {{ babel}} is depreciated at Meta and they are switching to m:Template:User language. If this template is imported to Wikipedia (en) I would suggest that it be modified to indicate that the language is the users primary language if the fluency level is omitted. -- allen四 names 23:23, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
hasno box:(-- i'v[[RSI]]>typin=v.v.hard4me!!>contactme thruMSNpl[sven70=alias ( talk) 05:29, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
=not proper!-- i'v[[RSI]]>typin=v.v.hard4me!!>contactme thruMSNpl[sven70=alias ( talk) 05:36, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
On this page ( Wikipedia:Babel), he-3 is bright green but en-3 is dark blue. Any reason why this is inconsistent? I find that the green makes more sense, but which one is correct? Iketsi ( talk) 00:54, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
{{Userboxtop|toptext=[[Wikipedia:Babel]]}} {{User:A. di M./Babelbox|en|N|English language|This user is able to contribute with a '''[[:Category:User en-3|advanced]]''' level of '''[[:Category:User en|English]]'''.}} {{User:A. di M./Babelbox|en|5|English language|This user is able to contribute with a '''[[:Category:User en-3|advanced]]''' level of '''[[:Category:User en|English]]'''.}} {{User:A. di M./Babelbox|en|4|English language|This user is able to contribute with a '''[[:Category:User en-3|advanced]]''' level of '''[[:Category:User en|English]]'''.}} {{User:A. di M./Babelbox|en|3|English language|This user is able to contribute with a '''[[:Category:User en-3|advanced]]''' level of '''[[:Category:User en|English]]'''.}} {{User:A. di M./Babelbox|en|2|English language|This user is able to contribute with a '''[[:Category:User en-3|advanced]]''' level of '''[[:Category:User en|English]]'''.}} {{User:A. di M./Babelbox|en|1|English language|This user is able to contribute with a '''[[:Category:User en-3|advanced]]''' level of '''[[:Category:User en|English]]'''.}} {{User:A. di M./Babelbox|en|0|English language|This user is able to contribute with a '''[[:Category:User en-3|advanced]]''' level of '''[[:Category:User en|English]]'''.}} {{userboxbottom}}
so, we have to guess the code of each Babel... nice.
Elvenmuse ( talk) 10:55, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
What about:
Kayau Voting IS evil 16:29, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
In Latina lingua Wikipediam desidero habere. Sum Latina-3 JoshE3 ( talk) 00:00, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Is there any particular reason that the templates for Tibetan are all written in English and in the Latin alphabet? If the issue is just a lack of a translation, I'd be more than glad to get a native speaker to render all of the different levels in (Lhasa) Tibetan. Just figured I would ask here before plowing into that. Vaaarr ( talk) 09:09, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Hi, I think Babel must contain other infos than languages, because it couldn't be easy to use a lot of templates. Thanks for support and relevance. + Emroski ( my wall) ( what I did) + 15:09, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Hello! You use the letter code jm for Jamaican Patois (see here), but the letter code by ISO 639 ist jam (see here). As there are only two people using Jamaican Patois templates, it is easy to change. Is it allowed to change the letter code in jam? Stefan Knauf ( talk) 23:41, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
As nobody seems to know, I just changed the letter code for Jamaican Patois from jm to jam. Stefan Knauf ( talk) 19:27, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
My understanding (and that of my Oxford-Duden German Desk Dictionary 1997) is that "fortgeschrittene" means "advanced". However, de-2 is meant to be an intermediate level of understanding. Is there a better term for "intermediate level of German" in German? The same dictionary only has the prefix "zwischen-" listed for "intermediate". Perhaps "Zwischenniveau von Deutschkentniss"?-- Wikimedes ( talk) 16:31, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
apologize about my
tinglish
hi i am a thai user and i feel dizzy about a lot of babel, because it's lot of
can admin continent partition? --
KLL Joe (
talk)
15:35, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
mnc-1 | ᠣᠮᠪᡳ ᠠᡳᠰᡳᠯᠠᠴᡳ ᠪᠠᡳᡨᠠᠮᡝ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ ᡤᡳᠰᡠᠨ ᠪᡝ ᡧᠣᠯᠣᡴᠣᠨ ᠨᡳᠶᠠᠯᠮᠠ ᠪᠠᡳᡨᠠᠯᠠᡵᠠ ᡝᡵᡝ |
---|
Hello! Does anybody know if it is possible to write the words side by side in the Manchu-template? I asked this in German Wikipedia two months ago, but nobody seems to know. -- Stefan Knauf ( talk) 20:46, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Hello! Your categories User zh-classical and User lzh are for the same. -- Stefan Knauf ( talk) 22:39, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
Since the Babel extension, which provides the {{#babel:}} parser function, was enabled here, users now have the option of using, say, {{#babel:en}} instead of {{babel|en}}. Both methods categorize such users into the main language categories (in this case, Category:User en), but the template approach also uses Category:User en-1, . . ., Category:User en-5, and Category:User en-N to indicate comprehension level, whereas the parser function approach puts everyone in the main language category but uses the sortkeys 1, ..., N. This creates unnecessary confusion, since users whose names start with "N" of any comprehension level are mixed with users of any name who are native speakers (and similarly for "1" through "5"). What are we going to do about this? - dcljr ( talk) 00:35, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
What about making few new additional Userboxes with results of some proficiency tests in English, German, French, etc? Something like "This user overall band score is 0 in IELTS Academic" or something else? -- Divega ( talk) 07:10, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
I propose that we redo the Babel templates to (mostly) conform to the IELTS scale.
As you may notice, I've excluded the Native Speaker designation. Whether or not someone is a native speaker in a particular language is irrelevant to their skill in the language.
I'm open to any proposed rewordings of the proposed scale. — Yutsi Talk/ Contributions ( 偉特 ) 19:31, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Whatever is done needs to harmonise with the Babel extension. If the latter is unalterable, any discrepancies can only be ironed out by amending the babel templates. -- Redrose64 ( talk) 20:00, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
{{
user en-N}}
{{
user fr-2}}
{{
user de-1}}
for example - or by the babel template {{
babel|en-N|fr-2|de-1}}
which wraps the same templates in a box. Since the babel extension was added, you may do essentially the same thing using {{#babel:en-N|fr-2|de-1}}
which does not use templates (unless you attempt to use a language code which it doesn't recognise). The categorisation is the same: whichever of the three techniques is chosen, these examples will categorise a user page into
Category:User en;
Category:User en-N;
Category:User fr;
Category:User fr-2;
Category:User de;
Category:User de-1. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
13:36, 19 July 2012 (UTC)Materinski jezik ovoga korisnika je srpskohrvatski.
Матерњи језик овога корисника је хрватскосрпски.— {{ babel|sh}}
Ovaj korisnik razumije srpskohrvatski kao maternji jezik.
— {{#babel:sh}}
I think it's basically a good idea. However, the definitions are too long to fit into a standard userbox and would necessitate a key for people to refer to, making more work for the reader; the beauty of uboxen is that they permit a rapid overview of a user's CV. Because the definitions are text, I do not see how it affects the software extension or the template code. There are, cross-Wiki, well over 1,000 permutations though, and some Wikis still haven't correctly translated their userbox texts (I corrected one yesterday that was claiming Level 4 French to be Elémentaire). It would be a lot of work - is it something that really needs to be done now? -- Kudpung กุดผึ้ง ( talk) 21:42, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
In the Babil template tr-4, there is a misspelling I do not know how to correct. It is written: "Bu kullanıcı Türkçe'yi ana dili gibi anlıyor." The apostrophe should be removed. Sae1962 ( talk) 08:19, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
if you use the {{#babel}} template, it comes up differently, where can you find it and what is it for when there is already a {{babel}} template
Example:
{{#babel:ja|en-4|pl-3|ru-2|zh-1|ko-0|nonexsistent-0|Mac Pro
}}
{{#babel:}}
is a newer method which is intended to behave similarly on all versions of Wikipedia, whereas the older {{
babel}}
method does not. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
16:12, 28 August 2012 (UTC)Hello all- I don't understand what the word "professional" is meant to indicate in the Babel level 5 category. To me, calling yourself a "professional" user would indicate that your profession involves teaching that language, publishing in it, or translating it; or that your job requires some knowledge of the language, say if you regularly need to interact with speakers of the language at your workplace. I would not necessarily assume that "professional" knowledge of a language is a higher level than Babel level 4 (comparable to native speaker). A couple examples of my take on this:
Under the 0-1-2-3-4-N system, I designated myself a 3 (3.5 if it were available); now, with the 5 thrown in there, I don't know what to think. Can anyone clarify the definition of level 5 for me? - Eric (talk) 14:47, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
{{user-en-1-3}}
Level 5 is ridiculous and should be removed. -- LA2 ( talk) 03:02, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
The Bable templates are used to describe proficiency of a user in a certian language. Such a wonderful idea to find out a user who can help you when you are stuck with some unknown language. But then why are these templates written only in those languages? Clearly one is unable to read that language and hence is looking for someone who does. Why cant we add a line in English as well in those templates? This is English Wikipedia after all. I refer to all the templates under the category Category:Language user templates. §§ AnimeshKulkarni ( talk) 10:23, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
On Wiktionary, we've included gendered forms into the message, because in some languages it is rather strange for certain words to be used for the other gender. For example in French, "cet utilisateur" seems a bit strange for a woman I think as they use many gender-specific words there. Should this be included here? CodeCat ( talk) 14:40, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Anyone know how to override the default formatting in the {{Babel|EN}} type construct? As you can see on my user page, it's listing a little to starboard (to the right) - I'd like to have it centered. If you drill down to the actual HTML, it's parsing as "float:right" and "margin-left:1em" - both of which I'd like to do away, on my user page - not on the box "set" as a whole. Jarod ( talk) 02:58, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
{{
babel}}
has the styling margin-left: 1em;
- you can alter that with the |left=
parameter,
like this. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
08:40, 15 January 2014 (UTC)I can't find French. 24.89.95.149 ( talk) 02:41, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
never mind i found it. 24.89.95.149 ( talk) 02:45, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
Hi. What's the difference between the local babel template, and using something like {{#babel:en-N}}
? Also, is there an option to enable or disable the header and/or border?
Reh
man
02:50, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
{{#Babel}}
is the
Babel extension, which was designed to be consistent across all of the WikiMedia projects - that is, {{#Babel:de-1|en-N|fr-2}}
should work exactly the same at English Wikipedia, French Wikipedia, German Wikipedia, English Wiktionary, etc. - unfortunately, it's not completely consistent, compare
commons:User:Redrose64 with
meta:User:Redrose64. It was introduced in September 2011, and was supposed to replace all the locally-created {{
Babel}}
templates which exhibited considerable variation in syntax, appearance and effects. See
m:Babel extension, several threads at
Wikipedia talk:Babel/Archive 4 and (I think) the archives of
WP:VPT. I don't think you can hide the header and footer - after all, that would go against the idea of consistency. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
15:08, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
{{#Babel:de-1|en-N|fr-2}}
with three languages puts the page into six categories -
Category:User de
Category:User de-1
Category:User en
Category:User en-N
Category:User fr
Category:User fr-2 - a general cat for the language and a cat for the specific level as well; this behaviour should match with categories used in other Wikipedia languages and Wikimedia projects. By contrast, {{
Babel|de-1|en-N|fr-2}}
with the same three languages omits the three general categories and emits only the three for the specific levels:
Category:User de-1
Category:User en-N
Category:User fr-2. Some language codes produce discrepancies from this pattern. The reasons for these discrepancies vary, but in some cases a category went through
WP:CFD. For example, {{#babel:simple-3}}
puts the page into
Category:User simple and
Category:User simple-3 as you might expect, whereas {{
babel|simple-3}}
puts the page into the general category
Category:User simple and ignores the language level - notice that
Category:User simple-3 that I just mentioned is redlinked, so it doesn't exist. A
CfD from six years ago was used several times an excuse to
WP:CSD#G4 each of these categories whenever they got recreated, most recently in September 2012, a whole year after the introduction of {{#Babel}}
. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
21:21, 9 February 2014 (UTC)Please can editors familiar with the Babel comment at Template talk:Babel#Capitalisation_of_categories?
I have been trying to sort of the capitalisation of some categories, but have realised that the issues are a little more complex than first appeared. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 08:15, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps Russia's international speech marking the Cyrillic? The brackets write Russia. It's the same with Belarus. -- L.ukas lt 13 --Talk 15:40, 5 January 2016 (UTC)Lukaslt13
It looks like the entire suite of xx-0 babel templates (including ones like {{
User es-0}}
, {{
User st-0}}
) have been nominated for deletion on the grounds that the categories they were formerly used to populate were deleted long ago. Also affected are {{
User cu-N}}
, {{
User fb-3}}
and {{
User fb-4}}
. See
Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Templates for deleted categories. —/
Mendaliv/
2¢/
Δ's/
13:46, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
Dear fellow editors interested in userboxes,
I am in the process of learning (European)
Portuguese, and created the following userbox to include on my user page:
pt-L | This user is Learning European Portuguese. |
Although the 'L' is obviously not one of the accepted
ILR scale levels ('0' to '5'), the
'learner' symbol is used in many countries to identify people learning to drive. So, I thought it would be fun to apply it for the purpose of enabling Wikipedians to declare that they're currently learning a language; that is to say, Wikipedians with an ILR scale higher than '0' but lower than '1' in that language. After a while, the learner would feel s/he has attained a level higher than '0', and could therefore adopt one of the other, standard userboxes.
I am offering the idea here, for consideration. However, since it is highly improbable that this new level of proficiency would ever be adopted as part of Wikipedia's Babel project, I have not bothered to create a category for 'Wikipedians learning European Portuguese', which would be required otherwise. (And it is highly likely that such a category would be nominated immediately for speedy deletion, if I had).
In any case, if anyone wishes to re-use the above userbox and modify it for the language(s) they're learning, then please be my guest.
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ
Pdebee.
(talk)(
guestbook)
18:36, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
{{#babel:en-N|fr-1}}
on their user page at English Wikipedia, they should be able to use exactly the same code on their user pages at all other Wikipedia languages, at the various languages for wiktionary, Wikisource etc., at Commons, Meta, Wikidata and anything else that I've omitted. This means that this is the wrong place to propose it. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
22:09, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
I thought I'd flag this one up. You'd expect Category:User apa and friends to refer to the Apache language, per ISO 639-2. In fact it's a hierarchy for the Americanist Phonetic Alphabet. I've adjusted the text to reflect that it's now changed name to Americanist phonetic notation, but didn't know what the procedure was beyond that, other than assuming 639 names should be protected. Le Deluge ( talk) 01:56, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello, I would like to propose the use of {{ User language box}} in the User xx-x templates to simplify their code without changing their functionality and to facilitate their migration to other wikis. For example, the current {{ User en-3}} template's code
{{userbox-level | level = 3 | id = [[English language|en]] | info = This user can contribute with an '''[[:Category:User en-3|advanced]]''' level of '''[[:Category:User en|English]]'''. | usercategory = User en-3 | nocat = {{{nocat|}}} }}
will simplify to
{{User language box | id = en | level = 3 | info = This user can contribute with an {level:advanced} level of {lang:English}. | nocat = {{{nocat|}}} }}
Note that the manual specification of categories is no longer needed, which is a big advantage when porting to wikis with differently named categories. Petr Matas 12:05, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
{{#babel:de-1|en-N|fr-1|simple-2}}
on my user page, I should not need to alter that if copying to any of my other user pages, and the result will be exactly the same. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
21:09, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
info
parameter independent of these conditions.
Petr Matas
21:25, 19 June 2016 (UTC)Wikipedia:Babel | ||
---|---|---|
| ||
Search user languages |
(only works for babel nonsense 3) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Charizardmewtwo ( talk • contribs) 16:58, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
{{
User nonsense-3}}
. What is the problem here? --
Redrose64 (
talk)
21:58, 4 August 2016 (UTC)Can someone who understands this system have a look at Category:User kmr & Category:User lrc and see if they can work out how to clear these category redirects? They've been hanging around for months and it would be good to finally clear them. Timrollpickering ( talk) 08:58, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
{{#Babel:kmr-2|lrc-2}}
, as
Hamid Hassani (
talk ·
contribs) has essentially done, the page will be placed in four categories:
Category:User kmr
Category:User kmr-2
Category:User lrc
Category:User lrc-2. These four occur because the global babel system expects to use a particular category setup, which has not been respected locally. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
19:42, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
This one was solved by converting the redirects into base categories as the global system seems to expect. However other redirected categories do show up from time to time in Category:Wikipedia non-empty soft redirected categories - can I ask for some experts from here to regularly check that category and sort out anything that gets stuck in the redirect system? Timrollpickering ( talk) 22:21, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
Maybe this has been discussed elsewhere, but there is a small but significant anomaly between the en-4 and de-4 descriptions:
en-4 = This user can contribute with a near-native level of English. de-4 = Dieser Benutzer hat Deutschkenntnisse auf muttersprachlichem Niveau.
The difference is therefore between "near-native" and "native". My mother tongue is English, I also have a near-native level of German, but the German description lacks this important distinction. The nuance could be added by translating the sentence thus: Dieser Benutzer hat Deutschkenntnisse auf fast muttersprachlichem Niveau.
Any thoughts? I know it's of minor importance to the majority, but it seems that there is a discrepancy here.
Mowerbyte ( talk) 13:57, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
{{#babel:en-4|en-N|de-4|de-N}}
and compare the results:
{{
babel|de-4}}
, not the parser function {{#babel:de-4}}
. They have different effects:
{{Babel|de-4}}
: Diese Person beherrscht
Deutsch auf annähernd
muttersprachlichem Niveau.{{#babel:de-4}}
: Dieser Benutzer beherrscht Deutsch auf
muttersprachlichem Niveau.{{
babel|de-4}}
used on English Wikipedia with the same syntax used on German Wikipedia is valid, as is a comparison of {{#babel:de-4}}
used on English Wikipedia with the same syntax used on German Wikipedia; but a comparison of {{#babel:de-4}}
used on English Wikipedia with {{
babel|de-4}}
used on German Wikipedia is not valid. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
07:49, 9 April 2017 (UTC)That's a very comprehensive explanation of the difference between templates and parsers, thank you for that User:Redrose64. I'm not at all clear where is the best forum to pursue this query, but as it's essentially an issue in German, I suspect the Babel page on German Wikipedia would be more appropriate? Mowerbyte ( talk) 22:35, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
Good call, Gerda - thanks for your suggestion, I'll follow up there (when I have a moment!). It does seem to be the German side that needs attention. Mowerbyte ( talk) 17:43, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
Is there a way I could make one for Old Norse, or do I have to request it made?
Schwiiz (
talk)
02:54, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
{{#babel:non-0|non-1|non-2|non-3|non-4|non-5|non}}
{{
babel}}
template doesn't provide all of the levels. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
07:11, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
As the title states, I wish to make a userbox for speakers of the Gaddang language, such as myself. My problem with using the ISO-639-3 code is, Template:User gad is for Generalized Anxiety Disorder. Of course there are considerably more people with GAD than there are people who speak Gaddang, but I still want to make a template for it. For the time being, I have it in a sandboxed page under my userspace using User gaddang as a category, so as not to overlap with the user category for GAD.
What alternatives do I have for the language codes I can use for the template? Should I create the template as
Template:User gaddang or just confine it to my userspace for now? Thank you very much! --
a u t a c o i d
(stalk)
13:32, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
{{#babel:gad-0|gad-1|gad-2|gad-3|gad-4|gad-5|gad}}
{{#babel:}}
system is supposed to be the same on all Wikipedias, Wiktionaries, Wikiquotes etc. (
full list). Hence changes need to be centrally agreed, so a ticket at
phab: is required. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
20:54, 19 August 2017 (UTC)Would you mind taking the red categories User non-5User non-NUser gadUser gad-1User gad-2User gad-3User gad-4User gad-5User gad-N off this page? Or alternatively, can you create the categories? Rathfelder ( talk) 22:34, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
Hi! I have a question as to whether or not I would qualify for en-5. Here it is:
While I think that I qualify for almost all of the en-5 requirements, I do not work in a field that requires me to be especially proficient in speaking English. I am part of the Wikipedia Guild of Copy Editors, and I regularly try to improve prose in Wikipedia articles; however, this is not officially my job, and I don't get paid for it. So the question is: Do I count as en-5, due to being good enough at speaking it and willing enough to assist in helping others with it; or do I not count as en-5, because I don't work in a field where I need to be that good at English?
If anyone can help me figure out the answer to this question, I would greatly appreciate that!
Thanks!
Noah Kastin ( talk) ( 🖋) 08:09, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
{{
user en-N}}
, or {{
user en-5}}
, don't recall which) on their user page, although their writing - both in article content and in discussion pages - was so poor that we questioned them about their true understanding of written English. One of them persistently failed to appreciate the significance of the word "not" in phrases such as "please do not make changes like these". Both users were eventually blocked for a combination of reasons that included
WP:CIR. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
17:46, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
I believe the specific issue is resolved, but for posterity: I personally think it's worth clarifying User:Redrose64s response - what, if any, Babel boxes you put on your talk page does not have any influence at all over any possible warnings or bannings you might get over "incompetent" edits. Again, the bigger picture is that Babel is an entirely informal service to readers of your talk page. Nobody will hold you accountable for misrepresenting your language ability. At worst, you will be asked to lower your indicated proficiency, if even that. The original question suggests it is possible to interpret the Babel project as something formally binding (akin to how you are supposed to indicate competencies truthfully when applying for a job); perhaps we should sharpen the way we present the project to make its purpose (even more) clear? Cheers CapnZapp ( talk) 10:56, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
Comment: As others here have said, these "ratings" are decided by each user individually. Ideally you want it to be useful to others who may want to contact you, but it's up to you. However, this discussion made me realize that over the years something changed in the ratings and xx-5 was mistakenly sorted "below" xx-N. Having been around this page for many years and helping draft it, the whole point of xx-5 (it was created later than all the other ratings) was that it was "more than just native", i.e. professional. I have corrected the order in some places to reflect this. IMO this is one of the most practically useful distinctions in Babel ratings on Wikipedia, because it lets one talk to a smaller group of people if they have language usage questions. — Ynhockey ( Talk) 07:50, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
So, if I understand well, here is the place to get a language added to the global Babel system? So, would it be possible to add the literary provençal language (code prv), whose templates you can find here? Thanks in advance. -- Яданапя ( talk) 15:11, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
What are the programming languages supported by this? Thanks, qwerty6811 :-) Chat Ping me 16:42, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
Hi,
I found Babel intriguing and so added a template to my own user page per instructions.
But I don't want to have discussions on this English-language wikipedia in any other language than English!
My impression is that by listing other languages, there's an implicit invitation to actually carry discussions in those languages. I don't want that.
Is there (or can you add a request to create) a way to indicate fluency without this implied invitation?
To be clear, something like:
"This user can contribute with an intermediate level of Esperanto but please don't take that as an invitation to start discussions in that language! Please start any discussions in English here on English-language Wikipedia."
CapnZapp ( talk) 18:35, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
For quite some time now Category:Wikipedia non-empty soft redirected categories has contained a number of category redirects populated by the Babel template. Nobody seems to know how to fix them. Is anyone able to sort out the following:
Timrollpickering 16:49, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
{{#babel:}}
, if no level is given, -N
is assumed). Also in {{#babel:}}
, if a level (0 to 5 plus N) is given, it populates the categories for that level and for the language overall. See for example
User:Cosmopolitanist which has {{#babel:en-N|en-gb|en-ca|ang-4|sco-N|la-N|grc-N}}
- in this instance the |en-gb
populates both
Category:User en-GB and
Category:User en-GB-N; similarly |en-ca
populates both
Category:User en-CA and
Category:User en-CA-N; |ang-4
populates both
Category:User ang and
Category:User ang-4. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
09:08, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Instead of this | Use this |
---|---|
|en-CA |
|en
|
|en-CA-N |
|en-N
|
|en-GB |
|en
|
|en-GB-N |
|en-N
|
|pt-BR |
|pt
|
|zh-Hans |
|zh
|
I've listed them at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2018 December 13#Category:User simple-N to try to sort out the problem. Timrollpickering ( Talk) 14:35, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
YIKES! No, you don’t want to completely remove the dialect identifier from the Babel Code. It’s just a matter of switching it from uppercase to lower case (which can be accomplished via the templateMediaWiki extensión or template itself). Yes, sometimes it’s possible to still communicate effectively between dialects. However, it’s also very possible for 2 people using different dialects to be completely incomprehensible to each other. There’s a huge difference between being fluent in American English, British English, and Australian English...or regional Spanish (Mexico vs Spain), regional Portuguese (Portugal vs Brazil), etc. And seriously, don’t even think about stating that Gaelic speakers are comprehensible to all of their dialects. If you must make changes, I suggest:
Instead of this | Use this |
---|---|
|en-CA |
|en-ca
|
|en-CA-N |
|en-ca-N
|
|en-GB |
|en-gb
|
|en-GB-N |
|en-gb-N
|
|pt-BR |
|pt-br
|
|zh-Hans |
|zh-hans
|
Vandraedha ( talk| contribs) 18:22, 2 June 2019 (UTC) (edited for accuracy) Vandraedha ( talk| contribs) 18:51, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I would like to know whether it is possible some sort of equivalence between Common European Framework of Reference and Babel. This is my opinion:
CEFoR | Babel |
---|---|
A1 (breakthrough or beginner) | xx-0 (does not understand/understands it with great difficulty) |
A2 (waystage or elementary) | xx-1 (basic) |
B1 (threshold or intermediate) | xx-2 (intermediate) |
B2 (vantage or upper intermediate) | xx-3 (advanced) |
C1 (effective operational proficiency or advanced) | xx-4 (near-native) |
C2 (mastery or proficiency) | xx-5 (professional) |
What do you think about?-- Carnby ( talk) 14:43, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
CEFoR | Babel |
---|---|
<A1 | xx-0 (does not understand/understands it with great difficulty) |
A1 (breakthrough or beginner) | xx-0.5 (learning at a basic level) |
A2 (waystage or elementary) | xx-1 (basic) |
B1 (threshold or intermediate) | xx-2 (intermediate) |
B2 (vantage or upper intermediate) | xx-2.5 (upper intermediate) |
C1 (effective operational proficiency or advanced) | xx-3 (advanced) |
C2 (mastery or proficiency) | xx-4 (near-native) |
>C2 | xx-5 (professional) |
This is a suggestion for a change to the system for Babel. The following tables have been based on the Spanish and French Wikipedias' article evaluation tables ( as seen here and here), and somewhat inspired by WP:ASSESSMENT. One of the below options shall be effective if it is approved:
Level | Understanding needed of given language for level | Learning suggestions for this level |
---|---|---|
7 | Professional and outstanding | No further learning of new skills needed unless necessary; practice is often acceptable |
6 | Essentially complete | Grammar may need further learning |
5 | Approaching (but not equaling) a professional understanding | Some further learning of grammar, as well as spelling and punctuation practice, is often helpful |
4 | Mostly complete and without spelling errors | A few aspects of punctuation and grammar need further learning; spelling practice is also acceptable |
3 | Substantially complete but still with few spelling errors made | Considerable further learning needed to prevent spelling errors |
2 | Developing, but still quite incomplete | Spelling and punctuation learning should come first, followed by grammar learning |
1 | Very basic understanding of language | Any additional learning is helpful |
-- 69.160.29.109 ( talk) 12:33, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
I have a basic level of a language which is not on this list ( Bribri). How can I add it to my Babel template? Haakon K ( talk) 22:21, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
{{#babel:bzd-1}}
or if you already have some language codes in there, such as English and French, you can use e.g. {{#babel:en-N|fr-3|bzd-1}}
--
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
23:54, 22 January 2020 (UTC)To those few people who look at user language subcategories, a headsup that I've got rid of that awful WP:REDNOT non-compliant list of sibling categories on {{ User language subcategory}} and made it look more like {{ navseasoncats}}. It's not perfect, but it's better. I've also created {{ Category User iso-n}} which aims to be a "one-stop-shop" for those categories, filling in the parameters of {{ User language subcategory}} automagically based on the name of the category. It checks that it's in category space, that the name is of the form User xxx-n and that xxx is a valid ISO639 code, but I'm sure there's cases I've not thought of so feedback welcome. You can see it in action at eg Category:User awa-1 Le Deluge ( talk) 18:07, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
I am studying my ancestors language and have a basic understanding of Ndee biyátiʼ or Western Apache (apw) can someone create a user box for this language? I would like to add some important terms from my dictionary to Wiktionary. 2600:1700:9758:7D90:404E:FB70:D8A6:5477 ( talk) 06:18, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
Can somebody say what years of the English curriculum each level roughly equates to? Crystalpalace6810 ( talk) 16:10, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
The Kiowa language, kio, is not supported. Would this be possible to fix? AevumNova ( talk) 16:05, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I went through a couple of grad degrees in history and the social sciences at a time (many years ago) when "academic proficiency" in at least two foreign languages was a requirement. I became proficient in reading French & German (and sometimes Latin) academic texts, a bit less so in writing them, and much less so in face-to-face conversation -- what an English-speaker needs for conducting research in original sources, but not much use on a vacation, in other words. Poring over the definitions and discussions for the five Babel levels tells me they don't really apply to my case. Anyone else think this might be a parallel classification issue? Or something? -- Michael K. Smith ( talk) 01:14, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
I think the nb Babel boxes should display nb, and not no (which they, incdredibly, do). The no boxes that contain a mention of Bokmål should lose it; we have the nb boxes for that. Just like the nn boxes for Nynorsk. no is a generic reference to Norwegian. See also Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2009_February_4 -- Gamlevegen ( talk) 19:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC) Edited to fix link.-- Gamlevegen ( talk) 02:55, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
I have been reminded that because some of the Wikimedia projecs in the no. sub-domain are in Bokmål without any Nynorsk, it might be useful to let the nb boxes continue to display no. On the other hand, we could just all use an no box in addition to our nb box. We can be displayed in Category:User_no in both cases, or even without doing either.-- Gamlevegen ( talk) 12:59, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
Although I haven't quite finished, I have now made even more changes than I had thought I would at this stage. They are all direct or indirect consequences of the decision you can read about if you click on the deletion review link above. This does not mean we have to keep it like it is now. It is rather an opportunity to start over, having corrected a mistake from the past. As an example, I am no fundamentalist about such things as nb-3 boxes pointing to the no-3 category in addition to nb-3, and I don't know the wishes of the very few no-5 users yet. I'll still see if I missed something, to make it more consistent. If you have ideas or corrections, they can be discussed here.-- Gamlevegen ( talk) 18:59, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
I found out today that {{ babel}} is depreciated at Meta and they are switching to m:Template:User language. If this template is imported to Wikipedia (en) I would suggest that it be modified to indicate that the language is the users primary language if the fluency level is omitted. -- allen四 names 23:23, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
hasno box:(-- i'v[[RSI]]>typin=v.v.hard4me!!>contactme thruMSNpl[sven70=alias ( talk) 05:29, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
=not proper!-- i'v[[RSI]]>typin=v.v.hard4me!!>contactme thruMSNpl[sven70=alias ( talk) 05:36, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
On this page ( Wikipedia:Babel), he-3 is bright green but en-3 is dark blue. Any reason why this is inconsistent? I find that the green makes more sense, but which one is correct? Iketsi ( talk) 00:54, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
{{Userboxtop|toptext=[[Wikipedia:Babel]]}} {{User:A. di M./Babelbox|en|N|English language|This user is able to contribute with a '''[[:Category:User en-3|advanced]]''' level of '''[[:Category:User en|English]]'''.}} {{User:A. di M./Babelbox|en|5|English language|This user is able to contribute with a '''[[:Category:User en-3|advanced]]''' level of '''[[:Category:User en|English]]'''.}} {{User:A. di M./Babelbox|en|4|English language|This user is able to contribute with a '''[[:Category:User en-3|advanced]]''' level of '''[[:Category:User en|English]]'''.}} {{User:A. di M./Babelbox|en|3|English language|This user is able to contribute with a '''[[:Category:User en-3|advanced]]''' level of '''[[:Category:User en|English]]'''.}} {{User:A. di M./Babelbox|en|2|English language|This user is able to contribute with a '''[[:Category:User en-3|advanced]]''' level of '''[[:Category:User en|English]]'''.}} {{User:A. di M./Babelbox|en|1|English language|This user is able to contribute with a '''[[:Category:User en-3|advanced]]''' level of '''[[:Category:User en|English]]'''.}} {{User:A. di M./Babelbox|en|0|English language|This user is able to contribute with a '''[[:Category:User en-3|advanced]]''' level of '''[[:Category:User en|English]]'''.}} {{userboxbottom}}
so, we have to guess the code of each Babel... nice.
Elvenmuse ( talk) 10:55, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
What about:
Kayau Voting IS evil 16:29, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
In Latina lingua Wikipediam desidero habere. Sum Latina-3 JoshE3 ( talk) 00:00, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Is there any particular reason that the templates for Tibetan are all written in English and in the Latin alphabet? If the issue is just a lack of a translation, I'd be more than glad to get a native speaker to render all of the different levels in (Lhasa) Tibetan. Just figured I would ask here before plowing into that. Vaaarr ( talk) 09:09, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Hi, I think Babel must contain other infos than languages, because it couldn't be easy to use a lot of templates. Thanks for support and relevance. + Emroski ( my wall) ( what I did) + 15:09, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Hello! You use the letter code jm for Jamaican Patois (see here), but the letter code by ISO 639 ist jam (see here). As there are only two people using Jamaican Patois templates, it is easy to change. Is it allowed to change the letter code in jam? Stefan Knauf ( talk) 23:41, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
As nobody seems to know, I just changed the letter code for Jamaican Patois from jm to jam. Stefan Knauf ( talk) 19:27, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
My understanding (and that of my Oxford-Duden German Desk Dictionary 1997) is that "fortgeschrittene" means "advanced". However, de-2 is meant to be an intermediate level of understanding. Is there a better term for "intermediate level of German" in German? The same dictionary only has the prefix "zwischen-" listed for "intermediate". Perhaps "Zwischenniveau von Deutschkentniss"?-- Wikimedes ( talk) 16:31, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
apologize about my
tinglish
hi i am a thai user and i feel dizzy about a lot of babel, because it's lot of
can admin continent partition? --
KLL Joe (
talk)
15:35, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
mnc-1 | ᠣᠮᠪᡳ ᠠᡳᠰᡳᠯᠠᠴᡳ ᠪᠠᡳᡨᠠᠮᡝ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ ᡤᡳᠰᡠᠨ ᠪᡝ ᡧᠣᠯᠣᡴᠣᠨ ᠨᡳᠶᠠᠯᠮᠠ ᠪᠠᡳᡨᠠᠯᠠᡵᠠ ᡝᡵᡝ |
---|
Hello! Does anybody know if it is possible to write the words side by side in the Manchu-template? I asked this in German Wikipedia two months ago, but nobody seems to know. -- Stefan Knauf ( talk) 20:46, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Hello! Your categories User zh-classical and User lzh are for the same. -- Stefan Knauf ( talk) 22:39, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
Since the Babel extension, which provides the {{#babel:}} parser function, was enabled here, users now have the option of using, say, {{#babel:en}} instead of {{babel|en}}. Both methods categorize such users into the main language categories (in this case, Category:User en), but the template approach also uses Category:User en-1, . . ., Category:User en-5, and Category:User en-N to indicate comprehension level, whereas the parser function approach puts everyone in the main language category but uses the sortkeys 1, ..., N. This creates unnecessary confusion, since users whose names start with "N" of any comprehension level are mixed with users of any name who are native speakers (and similarly for "1" through "5"). What are we going to do about this? - dcljr ( talk) 00:35, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
What about making few new additional Userboxes with results of some proficiency tests in English, German, French, etc? Something like "This user overall band score is 0 in IELTS Academic" or something else? -- Divega ( talk) 07:10, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
I propose that we redo the Babel templates to (mostly) conform to the IELTS scale.
As you may notice, I've excluded the Native Speaker designation. Whether or not someone is a native speaker in a particular language is irrelevant to their skill in the language.
I'm open to any proposed rewordings of the proposed scale. — Yutsi Talk/ Contributions ( 偉特 ) 19:31, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Whatever is done needs to harmonise with the Babel extension. If the latter is unalterable, any discrepancies can only be ironed out by amending the babel templates. -- Redrose64 ( talk) 20:00, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
{{
user en-N}}
{{
user fr-2}}
{{
user de-1}}
for example - or by the babel template {{
babel|en-N|fr-2|de-1}}
which wraps the same templates in a box. Since the babel extension was added, you may do essentially the same thing using {{#babel:en-N|fr-2|de-1}}
which does not use templates (unless you attempt to use a language code which it doesn't recognise). The categorisation is the same: whichever of the three techniques is chosen, these examples will categorise a user page into
Category:User en;
Category:User en-N;
Category:User fr;
Category:User fr-2;
Category:User de;
Category:User de-1. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
13:36, 19 July 2012 (UTC)Materinski jezik ovoga korisnika je srpskohrvatski.
Матерњи језик овога корисника је хрватскосрпски.— {{ babel|sh}}
Ovaj korisnik razumije srpskohrvatski kao maternji jezik.
— {{#babel:sh}}
I think it's basically a good idea. However, the definitions are too long to fit into a standard userbox and would necessitate a key for people to refer to, making more work for the reader; the beauty of uboxen is that they permit a rapid overview of a user's CV. Because the definitions are text, I do not see how it affects the software extension or the template code. There are, cross-Wiki, well over 1,000 permutations though, and some Wikis still haven't correctly translated their userbox texts (I corrected one yesterday that was claiming Level 4 French to be Elémentaire). It would be a lot of work - is it something that really needs to be done now? -- Kudpung กุดผึ้ง ( talk) 21:42, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
In the Babil template tr-4, there is a misspelling I do not know how to correct. It is written: "Bu kullanıcı Türkçe'yi ana dili gibi anlıyor." The apostrophe should be removed. Sae1962 ( talk) 08:19, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
if you use the {{#babel}} template, it comes up differently, where can you find it and what is it for when there is already a {{babel}} template
Example:
{{#babel:ja|en-4|pl-3|ru-2|zh-1|ko-0|nonexsistent-0|Mac Pro
}}
{{#babel:}}
is a newer method which is intended to behave similarly on all versions of Wikipedia, whereas the older {{
babel}}
method does not. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
16:12, 28 August 2012 (UTC)Hello all- I don't understand what the word "professional" is meant to indicate in the Babel level 5 category. To me, calling yourself a "professional" user would indicate that your profession involves teaching that language, publishing in it, or translating it; or that your job requires some knowledge of the language, say if you regularly need to interact with speakers of the language at your workplace. I would not necessarily assume that "professional" knowledge of a language is a higher level than Babel level 4 (comparable to native speaker). A couple examples of my take on this:
Under the 0-1-2-3-4-N system, I designated myself a 3 (3.5 if it were available); now, with the 5 thrown in there, I don't know what to think. Can anyone clarify the definition of level 5 for me? - Eric (talk) 14:47, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
{{user-en-1-3}}
Level 5 is ridiculous and should be removed. -- LA2 ( talk) 03:02, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
The Bable templates are used to describe proficiency of a user in a certian language. Such a wonderful idea to find out a user who can help you when you are stuck with some unknown language. But then why are these templates written only in those languages? Clearly one is unable to read that language and hence is looking for someone who does. Why cant we add a line in English as well in those templates? This is English Wikipedia after all. I refer to all the templates under the category Category:Language user templates. §§ AnimeshKulkarni ( talk) 10:23, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
On Wiktionary, we've included gendered forms into the message, because in some languages it is rather strange for certain words to be used for the other gender. For example in French, "cet utilisateur" seems a bit strange for a woman I think as they use many gender-specific words there. Should this be included here? CodeCat ( talk) 14:40, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Anyone know how to override the default formatting in the {{Babel|EN}} type construct? As you can see on my user page, it's listing a little to starboard (to the right) - I'd like to have it centered. If you drill down to the actual HTML, it's parsing as "float:right" and "margin-left:1em" - both of which I'd like to do away, on my user page - not on the box "set" as a whole. Jarod ( talk) 02:58, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
{{
babel}}
has the styling margin-left: 1em;
- you can alter that with the |left=
parameter,
like this. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
08:40, 15 January 2014 (UTC)I can't find French. 24.89.95.149 ( talk) 02:41, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
never mind i found it. 24.89.95.149 ( talk) 02:45, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
Hi. What's the difference between the local babel template, and using something like {{#babel:en-N}}
? Also, is there an option to enable or disable the header and/or border?
Reh
man
02:50, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
{{#Babel}}
is the
Babel extension, which was designed to be consistent across all of the WikiMedia projects - that is, {{#Babel:de-1|en-N|fr-2}}
should work exactly the same at English Wikipedia, French Wikipedia, German Wikipedia, English Wiktionary, etc. - unfortunately, it's not completely consistent, compare
commons:User:Redrose64 with
meta:User:Redrose64. It was introduced in September 2011, and was supposed to replace all the locally-created {{
Babel}}
templates which exhibited considerable variation in syntax, appearance and effects. See
m:Babel extension, several threads at
Wikipedia talk:Babel/Archive 4 and (I think) the archives of
WP:VPT. I don't think you can hide the header and footer - after all, that would go against the idea of consistency. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
15:08, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
{{#Babel:de-1|en-N|fr-2}}
with three languages puts the page into six categories -
Category:User de
Category:User de-1
Category:User en
Category:User en-N
Category:User fr
Category:User fr-2 - a general cat for the language and a cat for the specific level as well; this behaviour should match with categories used in other Wikipedia languages and Wikimedia projects. By contrast, {{
Babel|de-1|en-N|fr-2}}
with the same three languages omits the three general categories and emits only the three for the specific levels:
Category:User de-1
Category:User en-N
Category:User fr-2. Some language codes produce discrepancies from this pattern. The reasons for these discrepancies vary, but in some cases a category went through
WP:CFD. For example, {{#babel:simple-3}}
puts the page into
Category:User simple and
Category:User simple-3 as you might expect, whereas {{
babel|simple-3}}
puts the page into the general category
Category:User simple and ignores the language level - notice that
Category:User simple-3 that I just mentioned is redlinked, so it doesn't exist. A
CfD from six years ago was used several times an excuse to
WP:CSD#G4 each of these categories whenever they got recreated, most recently in September 2012, a whole year after the introduction of {{#Babel}}
. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
21:21, 9 February 2014 (UTC)Please can editors familiar with the Babel comment at Template talk:Babel#Capitalisation_of_categories?
I have been trying to sort of the capitalisation of some categories, but have realised that the issues are a little more complex than first appeared. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 08:15, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps Russia's international speech marking the Cyrillic? The brackets write Russia. It's the same with Belarus. -- L.ukas lt 13 --Talk 15:40, 5 January 2016 (UTC)Lukaslt13
It looks like the entire suite of xx-0 babel templates (including ones like {{
User es-0}}
, {{
User st-0}}
) have been nominated for deletion on the grounds that the categories they were formerly used to populate were deleted long ago. Also affected are {{
User cu-N}}
, {{
User fb-3}}
and {{
User fb-4}}
. See
Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Templates for deleted categories. —/
Mendaliv/
2¢/
Δ's/
13:46, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
Dear fellow editors interested in userboxes,
I am in the process of learning (European)
Portuguese, and created the following userbox to include on my user page:
pt-L | This user is Learning European Portuguese. |
Although the 'L' is obviously not one of the accepted
ILR scale levels ('0' to '5'), the
'learner' symbol is used in many countries to identify people learning to drive. So, I thought it would be fun to apply it for the purpose of enabling Wikipedians to declare that they're currently learning a language; that is to say, Wikipedians with an ILR scale higher than '0' but lower than '1' in that language. After a while, the learner would feel s/he has attained a level higher than '0', and could therefore adopt one of the other, standard userboxes.
I am offering the idea here, for consideration. However, since it is highly improbable that this new level of proficiency would ever be adopted as part of Wikipedia's Babel project, I have not bothered to create a category for 'Wikipedians learning European Portuguese', which would be required otherwise. (And it is highly likely that such a category would be nominated immediately for speedy deletion, if I had).
In any case, if anyone wishes to re-use the above userbox and modify it for the language(s) they're learning, then please be my guest.
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ
Pdebee.
(talk)(
guestbook)
18:36, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
{{#babel:en-N|fr-1}}
on their user page at English Wikipedia, they should be able to use exactly the same code on their user pages at all other Wikipedia languages, at the various languages for wiktionary, Wikisource etc., at Commons, Meta, Wikidata and anything else that I've omitted. This means that this is the wrong place to propose it. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
22:09, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
I thought I'd flag this one up. You'd expect Category:User apa and friends to refer to the Apache language, per ISO 639-2. In fact it's a hierarchy for the Americanist Phonetic Alphabet. I've adjusted the text to reflect that it's now changed name to Americanist phonetic notation, but didn't know what the procedure was beyond that, other than assuming 639 names should be protected. Le Deluge ( talk) 01:56, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello, I would like to propose the use of {{ User language box}} in the User xx-x templates to simplify their code without changing their functionality and to facilitate their migration to other wikis. For example, the current {{ User en-3}} template's code
{{userbox-level | level = 3 | id = [[English language|en]] | info = This user can contribute with an '''[[:Category:User en-3|advanced]]''' level of '''[[:Category:User en|English]]'''. | usercategory = User en-3 | nocat = {{{nocat|}}} }}
will simplify to
{{User language box | id = en | level = 3 | info = This user can contribute with an {level:advanced} level of {lang:English}. | nocat = {{{nocat|}}} }}
Note that the manual specification of categories is no longer needed, which is a big advantage when porting to wikis with differently named categories. Petr Matas 12:05, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
{{#babel:de-1|en-N|fr-1|simple-2}}
on my user page, I should not need to alter that if copying to any of my other user pages, and the result will be exactly the same. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
21:09, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
info
parameter independent of these conditions.
Petr Matas
21:25, 19 June 2016 (UTC)Wikipedia:Babel | ||
---|---|---|
| ||
Search user languages |
(only works for babel nonsense 3) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Charizardmewtwo ( talk • contribs) 16:58, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
{{
User nonsense-3}}
. What is the problem here? --
Redrose64 (
talk)
21:58, 4 August 2016 (UTC)Can someone who understands this system have a look at Category:User kmr & Category:User lrc and see if they can work out how to clear these category redirects? They've been hanging around for months and it would be good to finally clear them. Timrollpickering ( talk) 08:58, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
{{#Babel:kmr-2|lrc-2}}
, as
Hamid Hassani (
talk ·
contribs) has essentially done, the page will be placed in four categories:
Category:User kmr
Category:User kmr-2
Category:User lrc
Category:User lrc-2. These four occur because the global babel system expects to use a particular category setup, which has not been respected locally. --
Redrose64 (
talk)
19:42, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
This one was solved by converting the redirects into base categories as the global system seems to expect. However other redirected categories do show up from time to time in Category:Wikipedia non-empty soft redirected categories - can I ask for some experts from here to regularly check that category and sort out anything that gets stuck in the redirect system? Timrollpickering ( talk) 22:21, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
Maybe this has been discussed elsewhere, but there is a small but significant anomaly between the en-4 and de-4 descriptions:
en-4 = This user can contribute with a near-native level of English. de-4 = Dieser Benutzer hat Deutschkenntnisse auf muttersprachlichem Niveau.
The difference is therefore between "near-native" and "native". My mother tongue is English, I also have a near-native level of German, but the German description lacks this important distinction. The nuance could be added by translating the sentence thus: Dieser Benutzer hat Deutschkenntnisse auf fast muttersprachlichem Niveau.
Any thoughts? I know it's of minor importance to the majority, but it seems that there is a discrepancy here.
Mowerbyte ( talk) 13:57, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
{{#babel:en-4|en-N|de-4|de-N}}
and compare the results:
{{
babel|de-4}}
, not the parser function {{#babel:de-4}}
. They have different effects:
{{Babel|de-4}}
: Diese Person beherrscht
Deutsch auf annähernd
muttersprachlichem Niveau.{{#babel:de-4}}
: Dieser Benutzer beherrscht Deutsch auf
muttersprachlichem Niveau.{{
babel|de-4}}
used on English Wikipedia with the same syntax used on German Wikipedia is valid, as is a comparison of {{#babel:de-4}}
used on English Wikipedia with the same syntax used on German Wikipedia; but a comparison of {{#babel:de-4}}
used on English Wikipedia with {{
babel|de-4}}
used on German Wikipedia is not valid. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
07:49, 9 April 2017 (UTC)That's a very comprehensive explanation of the difference between templates and parsers, thank you for that User:Redrose64. I'm not at all clear where is the best forum to pursue this query, but as it's essentially an issue in German, I suspect the Babel page on German Wikipedia would be more appropriate? Mowerbyte ( talk) 22:35, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
Good call, Gerda - thanks for your suggestion, I'll follow up there (when I have a moment!). It does seem to be the German side that needs attention. Mowerbyte ( talk) 17:43, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
Is there a way I could make one for Old Norse, or do I have to request it made?
Schwiiz (
talk)
02:54, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
{{#babel:non-0|non-1|non-2|non-3|non-4|non-5|non}}
{{
babel}}
template doesn't provide all of the levels. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
07:11, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
As the title states, I wish to make a userbox for speakers of the Gaddang language, such as myself. My problem with using the ISO-639-3 code is, Template:User gad is for Generalized Anxiety Disorder. Of course there are considerably more people with GAD than there are people who speak Gaddang, but I still want to make a template for it. For the time being, I have it in a sandboxed page under my userspace using User gaddang as a category, so as not to overlap with the user category for GAD.
What alternatives do I have for the language codes I can use for the template? Should I create the template as
Template:User gaddang or just confine it to my userspace for now? Thank you very much! --
a u t a c o i d
(stalk)
13:32, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
{{#babel:gad-0|gad-1|gad-2|gad-3|gad-4|gad-5|gad}}
{{#babel:}}
system is supposed to be the same on all Wikipedias, Wiktionaries, Wikiquotes etc. (
full list). Hence changes need to be centrally agreed, so a ticket at
phab: is required. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
20:54, 19 August 2017 (UTC)Would you mind taking the red categories User non-5User non-NUser gadUser gad-1User gad-2User gad-3User gad-4User gad-5User gad-N off this page? Or alternatively, can you create the categories? Rathfelder ( talk) 22:34, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
Hi! I have a question as to whether or not I would qualify for en-5. Here it is:
While I think that I qualify for almost all of the en-5 requirements, I do not work in a field that requires me to be especially proficient in speaking English. I am part of the Wikipedia Guild of Copy Editors, and I regularly try to improve prose in Wikipedia articles; however, this is not officially my job, and I don't get paid for it. So the question is: Do I count as en-5, due to being good enough at speaking it and willing enough to assist in helping others with it; or do I not count as en-5, because I don't work in a field where I need to be that good at English?
If anyone can help me figure out the answer to this question, I would greatly appreciate that!
Thanks!
Noah Kastin ( talk) ( 🖋) 08:09, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
{{
user en-N}}
, or {{
user en-5}}
, don't recall which) on their user page, although their writing - both in article content and in discussion pages - was so poor that we questioned them about their true understanding of written English. One of them persistently failed to appreciate the significance of the word "not" in phrases such as "please do not make changes like these". Both users were eventually blocked for a combination of reasons that included
WP:CIR. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
17:46, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
I believe the specific issue is resolved, but for posterity: I personally think it's worth clarifying User:Redrose64s response - what, if any, Babel boxes you put on your talk page does not have any influence at all over any possible warnings or bannings you might get over "incompetent" edits. Again, the bigger picture is that Babel is an entirely informal service to readers of your talk page. Nobody will hold you accountable for misrepresenting your language ability. At worst, you will be asked to lower your indicated proficiency, if even that. The original question suggests it is possible to interpret the Babel project as something formally binding (akin to how you are supposed to indicate competencies truthfully when applying for a job); perhaps we should sharpen the way we present the project to make its purpose (even more) clear? Cheers CapnZapp ( talk) 10:56, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
Comment: As others here have said, these "ratings" are decided by each user individually. Ideally you want it to be useful to others who may want to contact you, but it's up to you. However, this discussion made me realize that over the years something changed in the ratings and xx-5 was mistakenly sorted "below" xx-N. Having been around this page for many years and helping draft it, the whole point of xx-5 (it was created later than all the other ratings) was that it was "more than just native", i.e. professional. I have corrected the order in some places to reflect this. IMO this is one of the most practically useful distinctions in Babel ratings on Wikipedia, because it lets one talk to a smaller group of people if they have language usage questions. — Ynhockey ( Talk) 07:50, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
So, if I understand well, here is the place to get a language added to the global Babel system? So, would it be possible to add the literary provençal language (code prv), whose templates you can find here? Thanks in advance. -- Яданапя ( talk) 15:11, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
What are the programming languages supported by this? Thanks, qwerty6811 :-) Chat Ping me 16:42, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
Hi,
I found Babel intriguing and so added a template to my own user page per instructions.
But I don't want to have discussions on this English-language wikipedia in any other language than English!
My impression is that by listing other languages, there's an implicit invitation to actually carry discussions in those languages. I don't want that.
Is there (or can you add a request to create) a way to indicate fluency without this implied invitation?
To be clear, something like:
"This user can contribute with an intermediate level of Esperanto but please don't take that as an invitation to start discussions in that language! Please start any discussions in English here on English-language Wikipedia."
CapnZapp ( talk) 18:35, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
For quite some time now Category:Wikipedia non-empty soft redirected categories has contained a number of category redirects populated by the Babel template. Nobody seems to know how to fix them. Is anyone able to sort out the following:
Timrollpickering 16:49, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
{{#babel:}}
, if no level is given, -N
is assumed). Also in {{#babel:}}
, if a level (0 to 5 plus N) is given, it populates the categories for that level and for the language overall. See for example
User:Cosmopolitanist which has {{#babel:en-N|en-gb|en-ca|ang-4|sco-N|la-N|grc-N}}
- in this instance the |en-gb
populates both
Category:User en-GB and
Category:User en-GB-N; similarly |en-ca
populates both
Category:User en-CA and
Category:User en-CA-N; |ang-4
populates both
Category:User ang and
Category:User ang-4. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
09:08, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Instead of this | Use this |
---|---|
|en-CA |
|en
|
|en-CA-N |
|en-N
|
|en-GB |
|en
|
|en-GB-N |
|en-N
|
|pt-BR |
|pt
|
|zh-Hans |
|zh
|
I've listed them at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2018 December 13#Category:User simple-N to try to sort out the problem. Timrollpickering ( Talk) 14:35, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
YIKES! No, you don’t want to completely remove the dialect identifier from the Babel Code. It’s just a matter of switching it from uppercase to lower case (which can be accomplished via the templateMediaWiki extensión or template itself). Yes, sometimes it’s possible to still communicate effectively between dialects. However, it’s also very possible for 2 people using different dialects to be completely incomprehensible to each other. There’s a huge difference between being fluent in American English, British English, and Australian English...or regional Spanish (Mexico vs Spain), regional Portuguese (Portugal vs Brazil), etc. And seriously, don’t even think about stating that Gaelic speakers are comprehensible to all of their dialects. If you must make changes, I suggest:
Instead of this | Use this |
---|---|
|en-CA |
|en-ca
|
|en-CA-N |
|en-ca-N
|
|en-GB |
|en-gb
|
|en-GB-N |
|en-gb-N
|
|pt-BR |
|pt-br
|
|zh-Hans |
|zh-hans
|
Vandraedha ( talk| contribs) 18:22, 2 June 2019 (UTC) (edited for accuracy) Vandraedha ( talk| contribs) 18:51, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I would like to know whether it is possible some sort of equivalence between Common European Framework of Reference and Babel. This is my opinion:
CEFoR | Babel |
---|---|
A1 (breakthrough or beginner) | xx-0 (does not understand/understands it with great difficulty) |
A2 (waystage or elementary) | xx-1 (basic) |
B1 (threshold or intermediate) | xx-2 (intermediate) |
B2 (vantage or upper intermediate) | xx-3 (advanced) |
C1 (effective operational proficiency or advanced) | xx-4 (near-native) |
C2 (mastery or proficiency) | xx-5 (professional) |
What do you think about?-- Carnby ( talk) 14:43, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
CEFoR | Babel |
---|---|
<A1 | xx-0 (does not understand/understands it with great difficulty) |
A1 (breakthrough or beginner) | xx-0.5 (learning at a basic level) |
A2 (waystage or elementary) | xx-1 (basic) |
B1 (threshold or intermediate) | xx-2 (intermediate) |
B2 (vantage or upper intermediate) | xx-2.5 (upper intermediate) |
C1 (effective operational proficiency or advanced) | xx-3 (advanced) |
C2 (mastery or proficiency) | xx-4 (near-native) |
>C2 | xx-5 (professional) |
This is a suggestion for a change to the system for Babel. The following tables have been based on the Spanish and French Wikipedias' article evaluation tables ( as seen here and here), and somewhat inspired by WP:ASSESSMENT. One of the below options shall be effective if it is approved:
Level | Understanding needed of given language for level | Learning suggestions for this level |
---|---|---|
7 | Professional and outstanding | No further learning of new skills needed unless necessary; practice is often acceptable |
6 | Essentially complete | Grammar may need further learning |
5 | Approaching (but not equaling) a professional understanding | Some further learning of grammar, as well as spelling and punctuation practice, is often helpful |
4 | Mostly complete and without spelling errors | A few aspects of punctuation and grammar need further learning; spelling practice is also acceptable |
3 | Substantially complete but still with few spelling errors made | Considerable further learning needed to prevent spelling errors |
2 | Developing, but still quite incomplete | Spelling and punctuation learning should come first, followed by grammar learning |
1 | Very basic understanding of language | Any additional learning is helpful |
-- 69.160.29.109 ( talk) 12:33, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
I have a basic level of a language which is not on this list ( Bribri). How can I add it to my Babel template? Haakon K ( talk) 22:21, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
{{#babel:bzd-1}}
or if you already have some language codes in there, such as English and French, you can use e.g. {{#babel:en-N|fr-3|bzd-1}}
--
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
23:54, 22 January 2020 (UTC)To those few people who look at user language subcategories, a headsup that I've got rid of that awful WP:REDNOT non-compliant list of sibling categories on {{ User language subcategory}} and made it look more like {{ navseasoncats}}. It's not perfect, but it's better. I've also created {{ Category User iso-n}} which aims to be a "one-stop-shop" for those categories, filling in the parameters of {{ User language subcategory}} automagically based on the name of the category. It checks that it's in category space, that the name is of the form User xxx-n and that xxx is a valid ISO639 code, but I'm sure there's cases I've not thought of so feedback welcome. You can see it in action at eg Category:User awa-1 Le Deluge ( talk) 18:07, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
I am studying my ancestors language and have a basic understanding of Ndee biyátiʼ or Western Apache (apw) can someone create a user box for this language? I would like to add some important terms from my dictionary to Wiktionary. 2600:1700:9758:7D90:404E:FB70:D8A6:5477 ( talk) 06:18, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
Can somebody say what years of the English curriculum each level roughly equates to? Crystalpalace6810 ( talk) 16:10, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
The Kiowa language, kio, is not supported. Would this be possible to fix? AevumNova ( talk) 16:05, 28 June 2023 (UTC)