This is from a very quick Amazon search from work. The page numbers listed may not be the only place the term appears in the book, I'm time-limited here.
- Fang and Fur, Blood and Bone: A Primal Guide to Animal Magic by Lupa (Immanion Press). Claims to have a chapter regarding the topic.
- The Magic of Shapeshifting by Greene, Rosalyn (Weiser Press). p.239
- The Human Predator: A Historical Chronicle of Serial Murder and Forensic Investigation by Ramsland, Katherine (Berkley Hardcover). p.20
- Wither's Legacy: A Wendy Ward Novel by Passarella, John (Pocket). p.367
- For All the Saints: Evangelical Theology and Christian Spirituality by George, Timothy and Alister McGrath (Westminster John Knox Press). p.92
- Operation Chaos: A Novel by Anderson, Poul (Orb Books). p.21
- When I See The Wild God: Encountering Urban Celtic Witchcraft by De Angeles, Ly (Llewellyn Publications). p.77
- Contending for the Faith: The Church's Engagement With Culture by Wood, Ralph C. (Baylor University Press). p.166
- The Curse of the Werewolf: Fantasy, Horror and the Beast Within by du Coudray, Chantal Bourgault (I. B. Tauris). p.143
- Images Of The Antipodes In The Eighteenth Century.A Study in Stereotyping by Fausett, David (Rodopi Bv Editions). p.1
- A Host of Devils: The History and Context of the Making of Makonde Spirit Sculpture by Kingdon, Zachary (Routledge). p.129
Some of these presses are small, and some may actually be self-publication or vanity labels. Most are clearly not. Berkley Hardcover is an imprint of Penguin. Pocket is an imprint of Simon-Schuster. Orb Books is a Tor imprint. Llewellyn is a major publisher of new age material - see our article, with references. Baylor University Press is a typical university press, which are generally well-regarded for citation here. Rodopi is an established Dutch textbook publisher, while Routledge is a British textbook publisher.
Some of these sources (especially the textbook references) appear to attest to the "scholarly use of the term". Others clearly do not. I am particularly interested to see how the novel Operation Chaos employs the term. This is a werewolf book, and so may use the term in a context very like the AHWW coining. However, it was published in 1971, and so provides a significant antedating of the usage (perhaps a 1992 Usenet poster had read this?). Also, it is by Poul Anderson. Serpent's Choice 12:23, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
- That's alot of work, thank you. As I've said before I'm not challenging that you can find the term used (being a Greek conjunction). What I'm saying is that term as applied in the article is a neologism POV in essay format substained for the most part on original research and does not meet the criteria for an article on wikipedia. I'd take issue with some of the publishers but thats really a moot point because you've listed some reputable books as well. I'm also confused about you terming the Llewllyn article as "our article". I don't see you in the edit history, are you affiliated with or do you work for the company?
NeoFreak
12:47, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry for the confusing wording. I'll plead the 6 AM defense. I meant "our" in the sense of "authored by the Wikipedia community, of which I am a part, rather than being an external source." I've absolutely no connection with Llewellyn except that I think an ex-girlfriend may have left one of their books on my shelf.
Serpent's Choice
12:58, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
- Haha, gottcha. I know how the 6AM deal works. I should have put that together anyway.
NeoFreak
13:02, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
- I think the source problem would cease to be such a big problem if the article were split into two, dividing the scholarly/mythology usage (which is demonstatably old enough to not be a neologism) from the subculture (which may be a neologism, but if the subculture article couldn't be supported under the term "therianthropy" there is probably enough published material to support it under another name). That's why I put a split template (linked to an older split) on Therianthropy. Mermaid from the Baltic Sea 22:01, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
- Haha, gottcha. I know how the 6AM deal works. I should have put that together anyway.
NeoFreak
13:02, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry for the confusing wording. I'll plead the 6 AM defense. I meant "our" in the sense of "authored by the Wikipedia community, of which I am a part, rather than being an external source." I've absolutely no connection with Llewellyn except that I think an ex-girlfriend may have left one of their books on my shelf.
Serpent's Choice
12:58, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
This is from a very quick Amazon search from work. The page numbers listed may not be the only place the term appears in the book, I'm time-limited here.
- Fang and Fur, Blood and Bone: A Primal Guide to Animal Magic by Lupa (Immanion Press). Claims to have a chapter regarding the topic.
- The Magic of Shapeshifting by Greene, Rosalyn (Weiser Press). p.239
- The Human Predator: A Historical Chronicle of Serial Murder and Forensic Investigation by Ramsland, Katherine (Berkley Hardcover). p.20
- Wither's Legacy: A Wendy Ward Novel by Passarella, John (Pocket). p.367
- For All the Saints: Evangelical Theology and Christian Spirituality by George, Timothy and Alister McGrath (Westminster John Knox Press). p.92
- Operation Chaos: A Novel by Anderson, Poul (Orb Books). p.21
- When I See The Wild God: Encountering Urban Celtic Witchcraft by De Angeles, Ly (Llewellyn Publications). p.77
- Contending for the Faith: The Church's Engagement With Culture by Wood, Ralph C. (Baylor University Press). p.166
- The Curse of the Werewolf: Fantasy, Horror and the Beast Within by du Coudray, Chantal Bourgault (I. B. Tauris). p.143
- Images Of The Antipodes In The Eighteenth Century.A Study in Stereotyping by Fausett, David (Rodopi Bv Editions). p.1
- A Host of Devils: The History and Context of the Making of Makonde Spirit Sculpture by Kingdon, Zachary (Routledge). p.129
Some of these presses are small, and some may actually be self-publication or vanity labels. Most are clearly not. Berkley Hardcover is an imprint of Penguin. Pocket is an imprint of Simon-Schuster. Orb Books is a Tor imprint. Llewellyn is a major publisher of new age material - see our article, with references. Baylor University Press is a typical university press, which are generally well-regarded for citation here. Rodopi is an established Dutch textbook publisher, while Routledge is a British textbook publisher.
Some of these sources (especially the textbook references) appear to attest to the "scholarly use of the term". Others clearly do not. I am particularly interested to see how the novel Operation Chaos employs the term. This is a werewolf book, and so may use the term in a context very like the AHWW coining. However, it was published in 1971, and so provides a significant antedating of the usage (perhaps a 1992 Usenet poster had read this?). Also, it is by Poul Anderson. Serpent's Choice 12:23, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
- That's alot of work, thank you. As I've said before I'm not challenging that you can find the term used (being a Greek conjunction). What I'm saying is that term as applied in the article is a neologism POV in essay format substained for the most part on original research and does not meet the criteria for an article on wikipedia. I'd take issue with some of the publishers but thats really a moot point because you've listed some reputable books as well. I'm also confused about you terming the Llewllyn article as "our article". I don't see you in the edit history, are you affiliated with or do you work for the company?
NeoFreak
12:47, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry for the confusing wording. I'll plead the 6 AM defense. I meant "our" in the sense of "authored by the Wikipedia community, of which I am a part, rather than being an external source." I've absolutely no connection with Llewellyn except that I think an ex-girlfriend may have left one of their books on my shelf.
Serpent's Choice
12:58, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
- Haha, gottcha. I know how the 6AM deal works. I should have put that together anyway.
NeoFreak
13:02, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
- I think the source problem would cease to be such a big problem if the article were split into two, dividing the scholarly/mythology usage (which is demonstatably old enough to not be a neologism) from the subculture (which may be a neologism, but if the subculture article couldn't be supported under the term "therianthropy" there is probably enough published material to support it under another name). That's why I put a split template (linked to an older split) on Therianthropy. Mermaid from the Baltic Sea 22:01, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
- Haha, gottcha. I know how the 6AM deal works. I should have put that together anyway.
NeoFreak
13:02, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry for the confusing wording. I'll plead the 6 AM defense. I meant "our" in the sense of "authored by the Wikipedia community, of which I am a part, rather than being an external source." I've absolutely no connection with Llewellyn except that I think an ex-girlfriend may have left one of their books on my shelf.
Serpent's Choice
12:58, 28 November 2006 (UTC)