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In respect to the recent uproar from people regarding the jump in votes of the AID nominee BELGRADE, I have decided to have this issue settled once and for all.
To disallow individuals from soliciting votes from other users interested in a page.
Taken from the comment section of the voting and comments made under the removed votes section:
Sicilianmandolin
01:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC) by
Sicilianmandolin because he refuses to support a nomination that has been advertised in such a manner to gain votes and believes that it should result in a disqualification of the nomination for a defined period of time.
Sicilianmandolin believes such a process inevitably encourages bias and diminishes the reputability of AID.
This is in my opinion, a ridiculous comment. This and the one you made above. I'm truly sorry if you find this offensive, but just because someone is proud of their birth place, does not mean you have to say they cause bias in editing. What people have done to gain attention is truly useful. Who better to edit an article then the people that once was born, or had lived there? It causes no "Bias" to edits. In fact, I believe its an extremely good idea of someone would volunteer to alert all related people about certain articles nominated, so that we can actually get experts to help with the editting. If you personally wish to send all Americans a comment when an American-related article becomes nominated, I don't believe anyone would mind. If that is, anyone, or any group of people have the patience required for such a big job. Therefore, I believe your comment is too aggressive. (And no, I'm not from Belgrade) -- Steven 23:43, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Let's calm down. First of all, I want to make it clear that I am not targeting any individual or group of people; I am targeting an action that some believe is detrimental to the AID. No person or people are goinging to get blamed/in trouble/etc, and if we decide against advertising the AID, no one will be punished retroactively. I just want to discuss with you all whether or not the proposed policy is a good idea.
The purpose of the AID is collaborative editing; the people who should be voting are the ones who actively want to work on the article. It's fine to announce that the AID nomination on the talk page; it is not fine to send talk messages to every person with a certain userbox and ask them to vote "support". The difference is that editors who look at the article's talk page are very likely interested in actively improving the article (Why else would they be looking at the article's talk page?); those who have a related userbox might be interested in the article but most likely will not be active in improving it. We have to strike a balance here. We want to get as many potential editors voting, but we don't want "junk messages" to be an everyday thing for Wikipedians.
To all participants: What counts as "soliciting votes"? Technically the AIDnom advertises the AID, but it is posted on an article's talk page and does not ask editors to vote a particular way.
(^'-')^ Covington 06:47, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Sicilianmandolin 10:49, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
It's time to select the new weekly article. I'm doing a rollover soon but I'd like to check with you all first. So far, Belgrade has the most votes. Would you rather have Belgrade up this week and implement the results of the vote starting next week, or would you rather postpone Belgrade for a week until we make a decision? (^'-')^ Covington 18:58, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Weak support (don't count it as a vote). I would fully support this if soliciting votes would happen regularly, and if it becomes a problem (if articles which obviously don't deserve it start winning). But as this is just a hypothetical danger and soliciting votes is otherwise allowed, I don't think it should be implemented. I'd also like to note that the creator of this vote solicited my vote about it ;) Nikola 06:35, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
It is a culture war, because when a certain culture or race (in this case native serbs) come together and lobby for one thing related to their culture, it instigates the same done by others, almost to even out the playing field. Mkaycomputer 02:59, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia is equilibrium because it relies heavily on honor and fairplay, rather than bias not just in the general community, but in actual articles. On average, most articles are neutral and are fairly written, even when it is not a popular topic, and few people have knowledge to write an article about it. Mkaycomputer 03:14, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Lets go back to the beginning. The message said that one may vote for the Belgrade article on AID. Here is my problem. This deprives others that haven't had the honor of being advertised currently nominated on AID the fairness of the voting system. It deprives their chance of being improved, although it was nominated under the same circumstances and theoretically at the same spot on the Wiki-totem pole, if you will. It is quite honorable for one to ask his fellow (can we use the Belgrade example again) Serbs to help in editing the article up to featured status. It is also honorable for one to nominate the Belgrade article and allow the system to work itself out, and if it fails, try again or nominate in a different, more specific collaboration category. But to solicit a vote and in turn deprive the chance and the right of all of the other nominations that were nominated and voted for through the status quo, in my opinion is dishonorable and unwikipedia. In my opinion, it makes a statement saying that in order to win AID for the week, you must advertise it to its most likely voters. It makes it seem like a presidential election, in which a candidate will win usually if he is FUNDED the most by outside sources. The sanctity of AID and Wikipedia in general is in jeopardy, in my opinion. Mkaycomputer 03:14, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Sorry if I didn't make this clear. I agree with Litefantastic; the main issue that i am concerned with there is spamming. It's okay to post a message on the article's talk page or an appropriate Wikiproject; it's inappropriate to spam every person on the Wikiproject or to spam every person with a particular userbox.
Where I live (Northeastern US), there is a huge problem with "junk" mail, phone calls, text messages, etc. Most of the time advertizers do not pick who to spam on the blue. For example, if I bought athletic shoes from company A, company A might sell their addresses to companies B, C, D, and E, who each will spam me their catalogues or mail messages. Then cable channels will send me messages because they assume that since I like sports I like watching it on TV. Etc, etc. Spammers might call it an invitation, but to most people, it will be spam, and no one likes spam.
Yes, it's good to tell people about AID. But the thing is, if we let group A send out spam, we must let all groups do the same. And from someone who receives at least 10 spam messages a day in real life, let me tell you, it's very annoying. It's especially annoying if I'd have to check my talk page after I get the "new messages" bar and realized that it's spam.
There are ways to tell people about the AID without spamming their talk pages. They have already done it for the RfA; Dragons flight has created a RfA summary that automatically tells editors what new RfAs are up for vote and how the previous ones are doing. Some editors post this on their talk page, and it gets updated immediately. Maybe AID can get their own AID summary program. If you want to invite someone to the AID, just suggest that they post this program on their talk page. This will solve many things:
In summary, the intent is good, but the method is bad. Yes, it's great to have pride in your city/country/religious affiliation/etc. It's great to get the message about AID out there. But it's not fun to receive spam messages every other day. Let's keep the same good intentions but change our methods.
I hope this solution addresses most of your concerns. Let me know what you think. (^'-')^ Covington 19:17, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 |
In respect to the recent uproar from people regarding the jump in votes of the AID nominee BELGRADE, I have decided to have this issue settled once and for all.
To disallow individuals from soliciting votes from other users interested in a page.
Taken from the comment section of the voting and comments made under the removed votes section:
Sicilianmandolin
01:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC) by
Sicilianmandolin because he refuses to support a nomination that has been advertised in such a manner to gain votes and believes that it should result in a disqualification of the nomination for a defined period of time.
Sicilianmandolin believes such a process inevitably encourages bias and diminishes the reputability of AID.
This is in my opinion, a ridiculous comment. This and the one you made above. I'm truly sorry if you find this offensive, but just because someone is proud of their birth place, does not mean you have to say they cause bias in editing. What people have done to gain attention is truly useful. Who better to edit an article then the people that once was born, or had lived there? It causes no "Bias" to edits. In fact, I believe its an extremely good idea of someone would volunteer to alert all related people about certain articles nominated, so that we can actually get experts to help with the editting. If you personally wish to send all Americans a comment when an American-related article becomes nominated, I don't believe anyone would mind. If that is, anyone, or any group of people have the patience required for such a big job. Therefore, I believe your comment is too aggressive. (And no, I'm not from Belgrade) -- Steven 23:43, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Let's calm down. First of all, I want to make it clear that I am not targeting any individual or group of people; I am targeting an action that some believe is detrimental to the AID. No person or people are goinging to get blamed/in trouble/etc, and if we decide against advertising the AID, no one will be punished retroactively. I just want to discuss with you all whether or not the proposed policy is a good idea.
The purpose of the AID is collaborative editing; the people who should be voting are the ones who actively want to work on the article. It's fine to announce that the AID nomination on the talk page; it is not fine to send talk messages to every person with a certain userbox and ask them to vote "support". The difference is that editors who look at the article's talk page are very likely interested in actively improving the article (Why else would they be looking at the article's talk page?); those who have a related userbox might be interested in the article but most likely will not be active in improving it. We have to strike a balance here. We want to get as many potential editors voting, but we don't want "junk messages" to be an everyday thing for Wikipedians.
To all participants: What counts as "soliciting votes"? Technically the AIDnom advertises the AID, but it is posted on an article's talk page and does not ask editors to vote a particular way.
(^'-')^ Covington 06:47, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Sicilianmandolin 10:49, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
It's time to select the new weekly article. I'm doing a rollover soon but I'd like to check with you all first. So far, Belgrade has the most votes. Would you rather have Belgrade up this week and implement the results of the vote starting next week, or would you rather postpone Belgrade for a week until we make a decision? (^'-')^ Covington 18:58, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Weak support (don't count it as a vote). I would fully support this if soliciting votes would happen regularly, and if it becomes a problem (if articles which obviously don't deserve it start winning). But as this is just a hypothetical danger and soliciting votes is otherwise allowed, I don't think it should be implemented. I'd also like to note that the creator of this vote solicited my vote about it ;) Nikola 06:35, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
It is a culture war, because when a certain culture or race (in this case native serbs) come together and lobby for one thing related to their culture, it instigates the same done by others, almost to even out the playing field. Mkaycomputer 02:59, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia is equilibrium because it relies heavily on honor and fairplay, rather than bias not just in the general community, but in actual articles. On average, most articles are neutral and are fairly written, even when it is not a popular topic, and few people have knowledge to write an article about it. Mkaycomputer 03:14, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Lets go back to the beginning. The message said that one may vote for the Belgrade article on AID. Here is my problem. This deprives others that haven't had the honor of being advertised currently nominated on AID the fairness of the voting system. It deprives their chance of being improved, although it was nominated under the same circumstances and theoretically at the same spot on the Wiki-totem pole, if you will. It is quite honorable for one to ask his fellow (can we use the Belgrade example again) Serbs to help in editing the article up to featured status. It is also honorable for one to nominate the Belgrade article and allow the system to work itself out, and if it fails, try again or nominate in a different, more specific collaboration category. But to solicit a vote and in turn deprive the chance and the right of all of the other nominations that were nominated and voted for through the status quo, in my opinion is dishonorable and unwikipedia. In my opinion, it makes a statement saying that in order to win AID for the week, you must advertise it to its most likely voters. It makes it seem like a presidential election, in which a candidate will win usually if he is FUNDED the most by outside sources. The sanctity of AID and Wikipedia in general is in jeopardy, in my opinion. Mkaycomputer 03:14, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Sorry if I didn't make this clear. I agree with Litefantastic; the main issue that i am concerned with there is spamming. It's okay to post a message on the article's talk page or an appropriate Wikiproject; it's inappropriate to spam every person on the Wikiproject or to spam every person with a particular userbox.
Where I live (Northeastern US), there is a huge problem with "junk" mail, phone calls, text messages, etc. Most of the time advertizers do not pick who to spam on the blue. For example, if I bought athletic shoes from company A, company A might sell their addresses to companies B, C, D, and E, who each will spam me their catalogues or mail messages. Then cable channels will send me messages because they assume that since I like sports I like watching it on TV. Etc, etc. Spammers might call it an invitation, but to most people, it will be spam, and no one likes spam.
Yes, it's good to tell people about AID. But the thing is, if we let group A send out spam, we must let all groups do the same. And from someone who receives at least 10 spam messages a day in real life, let me tell you, it's very annoying. It's especially annoying if I'd have to check my talk page after I get the "new messages" bar and realized that it's spam.
There are ways to tell people about the AID without spamming their talk pages. They have already done it for the RfA; Dragons flight has created a RfA summary that automatically tells editors what new RfAs are up for vote and how the previous ones are doing. Some editors post this on their talk page, and it gets updated immediately. Maybe AID can get their own AID summary program. If you want to invite someone to the AID, just suggest that they post this program on their talk page. This will solve many things:
In summary, the intent is good, but the method is bad. Yes, it's great to have pride in your city/country/religious affiliation/etc. It's great to get the message about AID out there. But it's not fun to receive spam messages every other day. Let's keep the same good intentions but change our methods.
I hope this solution addresses most of your concerns. Let me know what you think. (^'-')^ Covington 19:17, 2 May 2006 (UTC)