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The result of the discussion was: Deleted one image (the 1968 cover) and kept this one - Peripitus (Talk) 08:24, 11 January 2015 (UTC) reply

File:Bridge Squeezes Complete Cover.jpg ( delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Mirrorstone ( notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Violates WP:NFCC#3 and WP:NFCC#8: an older book cover is already included in the article. RJaguar3 | u | t 03:06, 18 December 2014 (UTC) reply

IMHO both cover versions should be retained. However, if the policy gods and wonks conclude that the images serve the same purpose and one must be deleted, then the Dover version should be deleted and the Master Point version retained. Newwhist ( talk) 18:17, 18 December 2014 (UTC) reply

• The article currently violates WP:NFCC#3a, so one book cover should be deleted. -- Stefan2 ( talk) 18:23, 18 December 2014 (UTC) reply
  • The other cover in the article, File:Bridge Squeezes Complete Clyde Love 1968.jpg, might not be creative enough to be copyrightable. RJaguar3 | u | t 05:21, 19 December 2014 (UTC) reply

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Peripitus ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 10:07, 11 January 2015 (UTC) reply

File:WGN 9 News.png ( delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Tvtonightokc ( notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC#8; the news open is not critically discussed in the article. RJaguar3 | u | t 03:09, 18 December 2014 (UTC) reply

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Peripitus ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 10:07, 11 January 2015 (UTC) reply

File:WBBM open.png ( delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Buffalutheran ( notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC#8; decorative. RJaguar3 | u | t 03:11, 18 December 2014 (UTC) reply

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Peripitus ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 10:07, 11 January 2015 (UTC) reply

File:BounceTVChicago.png ( delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Csworldwide1 ( notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Violates WP:NFCC#8; former logo. In addition, a free replacement could be made by removing the background elements, leaving elements that are not original enough to be copyrightable. RJaguar3 | u | t 03:20, 18 December 2014 (UTC) reply

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The result of the discussion was: Delete. I understand and respect the passionate positions argued below. Regardless of this it is long standing consensus here, as documented in many hundreds of discussions about images in articles, that images like this do not pass the non-free content criteria. Where there are multiple images, and the differences are simple enough to be described with text without significantly impairing reader's understanding of the topic ( the band in this case), then one or more fails one or more of NFCC#1, NFCC#3a, NFCC#8. In answer to Dcs002 below, that could be done but you are best to ask at WP:NFC. - Peripitus (Talk) 08:37, 11 January 2015 (UTC) reply

File:Ayers Rock Beyond(US) rotated.jpg ( delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by CaesarsPalaceDude ( notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Same image as File:Ayers Rock Beyond(US) cover.jpg, which already exists in the same article, Ayers Rock. A written description by the uploader already informs readers that this image has been rotated to the right (by 90° clockwise). This second image is redundant and breaches Wikipedia:NFCC#3. shaidar cuebiyar ( talk) 11:23, 18 December 2014 (UTC) reply

Keep This file is indispensable to the article because it clearly demonstrates a unique, and fundamental theme underlying the first two albums by Ayers Rock. This theme relating to indigenous (Aboriginal) peoples, and the land which is part of them was embodied by the album covers, and certain tracks on the albums. If the rotated image is deleted, many readers will not realize the special feature of the image (that the "rock" in the top image turns into a "head" of an indigenous man in the lower image). I, myself, had seen the "normal" image of the cover several times before a friend mentioned to me about the rock/head feature. There is a scientific reason why this occurs: we are all better at face perception if the face is in the upright frontal view. A horizontal view (or upside down) makes it more difficult for the brain to realize that there is a face present, and more difficult to perceive social or ethnographic features (they might notice that there is a face, but not be aware that it is indigenous).

The above applies to intelligent, fully-functioning adults. Up to 2.5% of people may suffer from Prosopagnosia (where the ability to recognize faces is impaired), and individuals may show different levels of impairment. In individuals with autism spectrum disorder, face recognition can also be impaired. These groups of people will be greatly disadvantaged by the deletion of the rotated image. The solution proposed by Shaidar cuebiyar relies on the readers taking the time to read the caption, and understanding it, and then turn their heads on one side to see the indigenous face. This would make the task more difficult for people with a lower level of skills in English, or lower intellectual capacity. This deletion will make it more difficult for everyone, and more so for particular individuals with disabilities to understand, and appreciate a key feature of the album Beyond. It runs completely against WP:ACCESS. A quick mention, also, for the readers who very rarely read a caption, especially a long one.

The wording of Wikipedia:NFCC#3 contains the words "if one item can convey equivalent significant information" specifically to allow for this type of situation. One image does not convey the same information; the human brain doesn't work that way. Wikipedia would suffer if this deletion is allowed to proceed. CaesarsPalaceDude ( talk) 17:44, 21 December 2014 (UTC) reply

• Delete, obvious NFCC#3 violation when the reader can simply turn his/her head clockwise. Stifle ( talk) 16:32, 22 December 2014 (UTC) reply

• Keep The proposed solution doesn't work for readers who are unable to turn their head. They could include people with neck and/or spine ailments, which could include quadriplegic readers. It could also be impossible for people with neck injuries, who may be required to wear a neck-brace, and have been told by their doctor to avoid turning their head. What other part of Wikipedia requires the reader to turn their heads by 90° in order to understand the meaning of the content? Why does Ayers Rock (band) need to be the first? I thought we all bought computers, and other internet-capable platforms so that the technology did the work, while we simply looked at it.

Please note that I put a lot of thought into what I was doing when I uploaded both the images. They were loaded, and arranged on the page specifically to give readers an interesting, and educational experience, which will be an opportunity missed if the readers don't grasp the significance of the content. Wikipedia:Accessibility dos and don'ts begins with the following: "All users, regardless of disability, should be able to read, navigate, and contribute to Wikipedia easily." It's time we put this into practice. CaesarsPalaceDude ( talk) 01:41, 24 December 2014 (UTC) reply

• Comment Notwithstanding your passion and dedication to improving accessibility for any disabled readers, you don't have the right to vote twice to keep the image. Secondly, I'm fairly certain the alternate orientation could be viewed elsewhere, by interested readers, without it being duplicated on wikipedia: one could do this without twisting of one's head or the physical turning of the computer itself. Thirdly, at the file summary for :File:Ayers Rock Beyond(US) cover.jpg at 'Minimal use' you write "File intended to be used once only at English Wikipedia". It is in fact being used twice hence breaching that file's usage as well. shaidar cuebiyar ( talk) 06:36, 24 December 2014 (UTC) reply
• Comment My apologies, I wasn't intending to vote twice, or give the impression, even, that there were two votes for the "keep" argument. To your second point, I find that convoluted, impractical, and a bit silly. If the readers need to see it, we're better off leaving it where it is. Rule NFCC#3a specifically allows for this type of situation, and was written that way in order to filter out the dross from the encyclopedic content. I passionately believe that both of these images fall into the latter category. With regard to your third point, technically they are two different images, even though they both clearly derive from the same original. Shaidar cuebiyar, I wish you a Happy Christmas. CaesarsPalaceDude ( talk) 09:38, 24 December 2014 (UTC) reply
• Delete both Cover images should only be in the article about the product, but these are used in the article about the band, where they do not belong. See the footnote to WP:NFCI §1. -- Stefan2 ( talk) 22:55, 27 December 2014 (UTC) reply
• Comment There are two unfortunate occurrences with this File for Deletion discussion at present. The first is that the whole discussion is premature because I am part way through a large number of changes to the article, which will make all this seem unnecessary when they are completed. The second is that it is obvious that Stefan2 has done minimal reading of the article, and has even less understanding of the issues involved, and the consequences of deleting one or both of the images.

No consideration has been given to the uniqueness of the album cover, the uniqueness of the music on the album, the uniqueness of the band, and the uniqueness of the place of this band in Australian rock history, and Australian history in general. All of these matters will be covered in the article (and this will eventuate more rapidly, when I no longer need to write posts to this FfD). Ayers Rock's artistic output, in their first era, was not confined to their unique blend of rock and jazz music, but extended to the name of the band, the names of the albums, and the three album covers themselves. Each of these contain "some things peculiarly Australian". The album art work for the first album Big Red Rock (an Aussie nick-name for Ayers Rock) has an inner gatefold image of the large sandstone rock formation in a panorama format. The art work for the Australian version of Beyond features a Lyrebird on the front cover, and the American version has the "rock" which changes into the head of an Aboriginal (or indigenous) man, as discussed.

The fact that the "rock" which changes into a "head" is not accidental, nor is it purely a gimmick. On two tracks (Big Red Rock, and Moondah (Beyond)) the band incorporates the sounds of the Aborigines' own music in a fusion with more European forms of music, in an analogous way to the cover art, which combines Aboriginal themes (the head, and the landscape) with the European art form of the album cover. The album cover attempts to convey a central principal of Aboriginal spirituality, which is the deep connection between the land, and the Aboriginal peoples (they are many "nations"). Consider this website which quotes an ATSIC (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission) publication thus:

"We don't own the land, the land owns us. The land is my mother, my mother is the land. Land is the starting point to where it all began. It's like picking up a piece of dirt and saying this is where I started and this is where I'll go. The land is our food, our culture, our spirit and identity."

Source: Knight S., 1996, Our Land Our Life, card, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission, Canberra. Immediately below is a poem by Hyllus Maris (1934-86), which ends with: "I am this land, And this land is me, I am Australia." This concept of the land being in the Aborigines and their ancestors, and them being in the land is replicated by the album cover, where the "rock" is the "head" of the Aboriginal man, and the "head" is the "rock". The article will discuss these parallels in the near future, even if it is not there now.

At the time that these two albums were released, extremely few Australian musicians dealt in any way with themes related to the Aborigines, and the vast majority of Aussie bands behaved the way the rest of the European Australians behaved: they ignored them. This changed in the 80's with No Fixed Address, Goanna, and Yothu Yindi capturing the popular imagination. To their credit these bands spearheaded social change, but they were years after Ayers Rock.

To delete either of these images now would be premature, and would cause unnecessary duplication later when the article has changed, and the same issue will be raised again. I have discussed various problems which would be created by the proposed deletion, including obscuring the meaning locked within the original cover image, especially for the disabled, the readers with English as a second language, with neck and spinal issues, and those who never read a caption if they can avoid it. Understanding the hidden meaning is key to appreciating one of the important ideas which the article will attempt to convey. CaesarsPalaceDude ( talk) 07:53, 28 December 2014 (UTC) reply

• Keep The case has not been made at all that this image is unnecessary to convey equivalent, significant information. This is the nub of Wikipedia:NFCC#3. If we had the technology to offer a user-controlled rotatable image, perhaps this would be a non-issue, but the nature of this image is that it must be viewed from different angles to be observed as the artist intended it to be observed. Opponents point to Wikipedia:NFCC#3 and say they think it should be deleted without addressing the issue of whether this rotation is necessary to convey the content properly. One person in favor of deletion objects because it is used in the article about the band, not the album. However, this is not necessary to satisfy the requirement that the image be used "for visual identification only in the context of critical commentary of that item." (Yes, I also read the footnote to WP:NFCI §1, which says "in such articles (i.e., articles that are not about the album itself), the NFCC criteria typically require that the cover art itself be significantly discussed within the article." It is significantly discussed.) The article in question, in the section where the images are used, provides critical commentary of both the album and the image. Absent any article on the album, this one unique article is the appropriate place for both orientations of this unique image.

• Something to consider - what about an animated gif containing only one image, rotating through the animation? I am unaware of each frame of an animation being considered a separate image. I think if this is permitted, it can be a viable option to satisfy everyone. Can we somehow do this with one image? If not, then keep it as is, per NFCC#3a. Dcs002 ( talk) 14:08, 5 January 2015 (UTC) reply

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The result of the discussion was: Deleted - Peripitus (Talk) 10:52, 11 January 2015 (UTC) reply

File:WallAndPiece.jpg ( delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Redthoreau ( notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).

The purpose of the image appears to illustrate what the person looks like. For that purpose, the image violates WP:NFCC#1, as the person is still alive. Stefan2 ( talk) 11:46, 18 December 2014 (UTC) reply

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Peripitus ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 10:07, 11 January 2015 (UTC) reply

File:Vidstill.jpg ( delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Chad427 ( notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC#8: not critically discussed. Stefan2 ( talk) 11:47, 18 December 2014 (UTC) reply

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Peripitus ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 10:07, 11 January 2015 (UTC) reply

File:BornInTheUSASingle.jpg ( delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Wasted Time R ( notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC#3a: redundant to File:BornInTheUSAsinglecover.jpg. Stefan2 ( talk) 14:51, 18 December 2014 (UTC) reply

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted as F5 by Ronhjones ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 00:01, 28 December 2014 (UTC) reply

File:Cycle mallu.jpg ( delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Adecember16 ( notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).

This is a screenshot which is no more in use and needed, as the film got an original poster and is used in it's article. VagaboundWind ( talk) 15:33, 18 December 2014 (UTC) reply

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Peripitus ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 10:07, 11 January 2015 (UTC) reply

File:Audubon, John James ~ Bobwhite (Virginia Partridge), 1825.jpg ( delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Drewwiki ( notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Orphaned, worse-quality version of File:76 Virginian Partridge.jpg Calliopejen1 ( talk) 20:56, 18 December 2014 (UTC) reply

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Peripitus ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 10:07, 11 January 2015 (UTC) reply

File:CBS Television Studios.jpg ( delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Don-Don ( notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).

This file has been replaced with File:CBS TV Studios logo.png and has been placed in the articles. It is only used in User:Multichill/Free uploads/2011-01-11, but should be deleted due to it not being used in actual articles. Corkythehornetfan (Talk) 22:27, 18 December 2014 (UTC) reply

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