- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot ( talk) 3 October 2023 [1].
Foreign volunteers in the Rhodesian Security Forces
This article covers an interesting element of the Rhodesian Bush War; the involvement of foreign volunteers (sometimes considered mercenaries) on the side of the repressive Rhodesian regime. Due to secrecy during the war and difficulties accessing Rhodesian records, the number of these volunteers is not known but is generally considered to have been between 800 and 2,000. They were most commonly motivated by racism, but a desire for adventure also played an important part. The Rhodesian government never fully trusted the volunteers, and many deserted after receiving a hostile reception from their Rhodesian comrades who typically considered them to be adventurers. Despite their modest impact on the war, the volunteers are admired by modern white supremacist and far-right groups.
I wrote most of this article last year, and it was assessed as a GA in February 2022 and passed a Military History Wikiproject A-class review last June. It has since been expanded and copy edited, and I'm hopeful that the FA criteria are met. Thank you in advance for your comments. Nick-D ( talk) 23:49, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
Image review
- File:Cover_of_a_Rhodesian_Army_recruitment_leaflet_sent_to_British_soldiers_in_1976_-_fair_use_claimed.jpg could use a more detailed purpose of use statement
- File:Rhodesian_Army_Flag.svg needs a tag for the original design
- File:Air_Force_Ensign_of_Rhodesia_(1970–1979).svg: I'm a bit confused by the licensing here - was the legal successor for this work the UK or Zimbabwe?
Nikkimaria (
talk) 23:58, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
- Those two images form part of a navbox template. I've removed them, as I agree that they can't be assumed to be PD given the somewhat unclear situation with Rhodesian-era copyrights (which is why the article has very few images). Thank you for these comments. Nick-D ( talk) 00:03, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
Funk
- Southern Rhodesia is duplinked in the article body.
- Link southern Africa, United Nations, and British colony?
- As a pretty obscure subject to probably many readers, I think the article needs some more context in the beginning, as underlined below, following the comprehensiveness FAC criterion.
- "white Southern Rhodesians predominately spoke English and had a similar culture to those in other English-speaking countries" Clarify if this is because they were more recent arrivals? Perhaps worth stating when Rhodesia was colonised for context?
- "Anglophobia,[a] anti-communism, anti-internationalism, and anti-liberalism" While a quote, I wonder if these should be linked?
- "The academic Michael Evans has written" Could we get a year for context? So we know whether it was contemporary or retrospective?
- "The historian Donal Lowry has endorsed Evans' views" Likewise.
- I think it's also important to note for context that what happened to Northern Rhodesia, that it had a similar history and when it became Zambia. I'm sure that event had an effect on these southern factions and how they perceived decolonialism. And also since many readers will wonder why this is called Southern Rhodesia at the start of the article.
- It seems odd that decolonialism is only mentioned and linked in a footnote. Could perhaps already be linked at "ideology held that the end of colonial rule in Africa".
- Link black nationalist?
- "The Rhodesians' brutal counterinsurgency tactics also proved counter-productive." Any notable examples?
- "to establish bases in Mozambique as Portuguese rule faltered" It seems linking modern countries is discouraged, but perhaps Mozambican War of Independence or similar should be linked instead?
- "Its editor was a strong supporter of the white Rhodesian cause" Name him?
- "from Djibouti upon that country's independence" Link an article about this?
- Done - Independence Day (Djibouti) seems to be the best of the limited range of opinions. Nick-D ( talk) 07:47, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- "The Rhodesian Minister of Defence denied in 1975" Name him?
- "were generally motivated by personal political and ideological beliefs or a desire for adventure" What is this based on?
- Now anti-communism is duplinked.
- "or a desire for adventure" and "Other volunteers enlisted seeking an adventure" seems like the same statement twice in a paragraph?
- "The academic Luise White has written" and "Similarly, Kyle Burke has noted" again, could get dates.
- "In 1979 the Zimbabwe Rhodesia[b] government proposed" and "Rhodesia was renamed Zimbabwe Rhodesia" I think that in addition to the footnote, you should mention there in the article body itself that it was the renamed Rhodesia for clarity.
- "The volunteers also received the same pay as white Rhodesians,[53] between $US 4,000 and $US 7,000 annually." I wonder if anyone can be said about the funding of this without going too much into detail about Rhodesian economics. How could they afford this, was it a wealthy country, and based on what industry?
- Link neo-Nazi.
- "but it declined to do so as it was working as a mercenary was legal." I'm not sure I understand this, malformed sentence?
- "of parliament raised concerns about British citizens fighting for Rhodesia in parliament" Not sure the first "parliament" is needed then, repetitive.
- "put their futures on the line for the Smith" The Smith?
- You list some countries and discuss their relationships to Rhodesia, I wonder if there are some articles about the specific countries and their relations?
- We don't really have any articles on bilateral relations between various countries and Rhodesia that are useful in this context - see United Kingdom–Zimbabwe relations and United States–Zimbabwe relations, for instance, which I don't think add anything that readers of this article need to know that the article doesn't already note. There are currently no dedicated articles on Rhodesia's bilateral relations or overall foreign relations, which is a bit of a gap. Nick-D ( talk) 10:03, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- "Some other volunteers left as a result of to the hostile reception" Stray "to"?
- I wonder why the rather short
American volunteers in the Rhodesian Bush War article isn't rolled into this one? Especially considering the far more numerous UK volunteers don't have their own article.
- That article is too detailed, and poorly sourced, to sensibly roll in (e.g. the table of information on casualties). The topic is also notable in isolation, and the article could be considerably expanded. A separate article could be created on British volunteers if anyone wanted to, and my to-do list for Rhodesian topics includes starting an article on South Africa's role in the war. Nick-D ( talk) 10:03, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- The intro probably needs just a bit more context on what Rhodesia was, that it was a white majority, unrecognised state.
- "and economic hardship" Hardship isn't mentioned as a factor outside the intro.
- Link white supremacist in intro, and there also seems other subjects could be linked there.
- Changes look good, but there are a couple of unanswered points above which I'm not sure have been addressed or not. FunkMonk ( talk) 11:00, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- @ FunkMonk: many thanks for this detailed review. I think that I might have now addressed those comments. Nick-D ( talk) 10:46, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
Oppose from Willbb234
Hi, thanks for nominating. I saw this pop up on the FAC feed a while ago but only yesterday I got round to reviewing - I spent a few hours reading various sources and the article and there were some issues in the sample of sources I looked at, which unfortunately has led me to oppose.
- The volunteer's motivations section is the main place where I concentrated on as it underpins the whole article.
- You write that
The academic Luise White has written that they were commonly opposed to the establishment of governments run by black people and did not have any particular commitment to Rhodesia itself.
While the source states thatForeign soldiers raise questions about what might link place and warfare: patria is not the issue, politics is. And the politics are queerly utopian: somewhere communism had to be stopped; somewhere men had to stand up against terrorism; somewhere the western world had to stand fast against the eastern hordes. All these tropes, of course, meant race: it was a black government that these men came to fight against.
This gave me pause as the interpretation of the source doesn't seem quite right. I'm not entirely sure that the purpose was actually to come to Rhodesia in order to fight against a black government (although this was undoubtedly a motivation for at least some of the volunteers) and the source certainly does not state that this was a 'common' motivation. I would also note that anti-communism was driven by ideology rather than racism, but that's probably heading into Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth territory.- That seems a rather odd interpretation of the source to be frank. White states that "All these tropes, of course, meant race: it was a black government that these men came to fight against". She later notes on the same page that "that fighting for all the tropes that meant white rule was also without any loyalty to a nation, without any historical specificity, or even a sense of place: Rhodesia just happened to be in the right place at the right time for these soldiers". This supports the wording in the article. Nick-D ( talk) 10:00, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
- Kyle Burke also notes that racism and paternalism underpinned Americans decisions to fight for Rhodesia, which is similar to what White argues; I've added this. Nick-D ( talk) 08:42, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- You then write that
The most common motivation was opposition to governments led by black people
in the lede. This appears to stray further from what the source says. The source doesn't say that this was the "most common motivation". In fact, p. 183-184 of this source doesn't even mention race as a motivation, never mind the "most common" one. It seems that some questionable interpretation of the source has been amplified in the lede.- The source here is White, who as I note above does in fact support this statement [Edit: as does Burke]. I've tweaked this though after reviewing some other sources; as you note, other sources focus more on anti-communism and White also notes this was a key factor. Nick-D ( talk) 10:45, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
Many volunteers were also strongly anti-communist, and wanted to stop the further spread of this ideology in Africa
however, the given source doesn't mention that there were 'many' just thatThere were other men who came to Rhodesia because of their intense belief that Rhodesia was the next battleground against communism.
I'm also questioning the PhD thesis used as a source. I tried to find out if this was peer-reviewed, but I couldn't find anything.- I've tweaked this per the above, but sources clearly support the use of "many" in this context. This PhD thesis is noted by Pattenden as part of the literature on the topic (which is how I found it), so is fine per WP:SCHOLARSHIP. I'd suggest that it's necessary to consult it given Pattenden noted that it's one of the few works covering this topic. The thesis has also recently been turned into this book, but as the book covers the volunteer/mercenary issue in less detail and the thesis meets the requirements I'm not seeing the benefit in reworking the citations; I could do so if you think it essential though, to the extent the material on this topic carried over to the book. Nick-D ( talk) 22:35, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
- My general concerns surround how the information in the sources has been presented here. Considering that we are are not sure of exactly how many volunteers served in the force, how can we be sure of what is the 'most common' motivation or whether 'many' men had certain motivations without sources explicitly telling us? I think there needs to be some considerable work here and some more consideration as to how this is summarised in the lede.
- I next considered the following sentences:
In addition to the actual volunteers, thousands of South African Police and South African Defence Force (SADF) personnel were deployed to Rhodesia by the South African government to serve in or alongside the Rhodesian Security Forces. These men were often directed to wear Rhodesian uniforms, and the South African government falsely claimed that some had volunteered for the Rhodesian Security Forces.
and the source [2]. - Firstly, I'm not sure that the source backs up that the South African government "falsely claimed that some had volunteered for the Rhodesian Security Forces" - this is what the source has to say
Indeed, a number of SAP members 'volunteered' to serve alongside their Rhodesian counterparts and so were seconded to and integrated with the RSF.
. Maybe the government did, but I don't think we can be sure of this considering the wording in the source.- As noted by the source, the South African government was covertly deploying police and military personnel to Rhodesia. People who are 'volunteered' are not in fact real volunteers, so the wording in the article on this issue is correct. I've tweaked the wording to be more specific though. Nick-D ( talk) 11:02, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
- Regarding the bit about uniforms, this is what the source has to say
He added that 'in the interests of effective military operations it is further requested that the SADF personnel attached to the ZR Security Forces appear in ZR uniforms'
it appears that this was only done towards the end of the war (from about November 1979 onwards) but the implication in the source that this was done throughout the time that South Africans were in Rhodesia perhaps several years earlier. The use of the word 'often' (which isn't used in the source) seems to also have the effect of suggesting that this was common practice or done throughout the second half of the 1970s.- That's a good point: I seem to have gotten confused here regrding "These men were often directed to wear Rhodesian uniforms" given this was a request from the Zimbabwe-Rhodesian Government only. I've removed that sentence, and replaced it with material noting that much of this support was provided covertly and more specific wording. The rest of the statement other than that on uniforms was correct.
Nick-D (
talk) 10:00, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
- Actually, I was correct initially, but hadn't cited the source I would have originally seen this in (as part of working on the other related articles) - I've done so now. The South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission found that South African conscripts were posted to the Rhodesian Army and required to fight wearing Rhodesian uniforms. Nick-D ( talk) 06:18, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- That's a good point: I seem to have gotten confused here regrding "These men were often directed to wear Rhodesian uniforms" given this was a request from the Zimbabwe-Rhodesian Government only. I've removed that sentence, and replaced it with material noting that much of this support was provided covertly and more specific wording. The rest of the statement other than that on uniforms was correct.
Nick-D (
talk) 10:00, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
- Another concern I have is the wording here:
Opponents of the regime frequently highlighted the issue of 'mercenaries' fighting for Rhodesia, and claimed that they were often mentally unstable and had little regard for civilian casualties
while the source states thatOpponents of the Rhodesian effort often accused the government of recruiting and employing mercenaries who were unstable and who did not care about the safety of civilians.
It's very nuanced, but I think the criticism was over the employment of unstable mercenaries and not over the general employment of mercenaries which included unstable mercenaries. I hope I'm making some sense. Once again, the use of the PhD thesis, especially for a claim like this needs another check. See WP:SCHOLARSHIP. I'm not saying it shouldn't be used, but I think there should be some clear reasoning why this is reliable.- Please see page 184 of the source (which forms part of the citation), where it is stated that "The matter of mercenary service in Rhodesia became an obsession for those opposed to the settler regime". Lots of other sources support this as well, but I don't see the benefit in sourceboming something cited to a reliable source. As such, the source supports the statement. Nick-D ( talk) 10:30, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
The approach I generally take is that if I find issues in a sample of source checks, then I'm going to assume that there would be further issues in the rest of the article, so there would be grounds for an oppose based on not meeting WP:FACR 1c. Therefore, I don't believe the issues could be addressed within the FA review and would require further work beyond the review. I do hope that my review is also not coming across as too tough - I try my best to be thorough. Prose seems good and the article is well structured. Once again, thanks for nominating and best of luck with the rest of the review. Willbb234 13:47, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
- @
Willbb234: I think that I've now addressed your comments. To be frank, I don't think that they're major comments, including as you've made some mistakes in reading some of the sources. Apologies for the convoluted editing history with my responses here - I'm perhaps unwisely responding at the end of a busy day!
Nick-D (
talk) 10:58, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for the responses. You'll note that I said that it was an "odd interpretation" and not the wrong interpretation. I think part of this stems from the fact that White's style of writing is quite shit. I'm fairly well educated and at times I was struggling to decipher what she was saying. I also found it difficult to differentiate where the factual parts of the source moved into the opinion-based parts.
- I don't agree with some of your other assessments, but I'm not going to argue over this and I feel it would be best to leave this to others to determine. My decision over an oppose !vote has not changed.
Willbb234 18:11, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- @
Willbb234: That's pretty disappointing to be honest. I think that I've addressed your comments, and to state that I haven't addressed some but not identify what they are is poor form. I'd ask that you strike the oppose if you don't intend to continue the review.
Nick-D (
talk) 09:52, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
- Try again. I outlined my approach above. You can address these issues all you like but the article will require serious work i.e. going through all the sources again and actually making sure that there's no discrepancies between the sources and content. And no, it's perfectly acceptable form. I identified a number of issues and provided a clear rationale as to why this shouldn't be an FA. I wouldn't believe you right now if you told me there's no more discrepancies in the article. It's also not my fault if you're ego can't accept the oppose and you feel the need to try to intimidate me into removing it. That's not going to happen. Willbb234 19:18, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
- @
Willbb234: That's pretty disappointing to be honest. I think that I've addressed your comments, and to state that I haven't addressed some but not identify what they are is poor form. I'd ask that you strike the oppose if you don't intend to continue the review.
Nick-D (
talk) 09:52, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
Comments by Dudley
- "Few works by historians have been published on the volunteers, and they are celebrated by far right and white supremacist groups who admire Rhodesia." This seems to combine two unrelated statements as if they are somehow connected.
- "dominated by the small white minority of its population". This understates the position. I think you should spell out that only whites had votes.
- I don't think that's correct; as the Politics of Rhodesia article notes, a minority of black Rhodesians had the vote, and could stand for parliament. The system was rigged in various ways though so that the small white minority utterly dominated the colony/country's political system. I've added a link to this article here to help readers understand the situation, which I'd suggest is too complex to attempt to cover in this article. Nick-D ( talk) 03:55, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- Dominated seems to me too weak. At times it would have been correct to say that the British government was dominated by Eton graduates. How about "controlled"? Dudley Miles ( talk) 12:56, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
- "virulent forms of Anglophobia, anti-communism, anti-internationalism, and anti-liberalism". Anglophobia seems a curious term and requires clarification as they claimed to stand for true Britishness against the current UK government.
- "Guerrilla activities began in 1966, and mainly involved small groups operating in northern Rhodesia." from rather than in northern Rhodesia?
- "The cultural similarities between the white Rhodesian and British communities". What does "British communities" mean in this context?
- "The Army's structure of administrative corps was similar to that of the British Army". What does "structure of administrative corps" mean? This needs clarifying.
- I've tweaked the wording and link to clarify this; it refers to how the branches of the army were structured (infantry, artillery, transport, etc). Surprisingly, we don't have articles on the British Army's structure of administrative corps (or that of the Rhodesian Army's) that can be linked here. Nick-D ( talk) 06:13, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- "While most of the security forces' personnel were black, the Rhodesian government had a strong preference for whites.[23] The army units manned by full time personnel, which included a high proportion of white regular and conscripted soldiers, were the most powerful element of the security forces" This is unclear. You seem to say first that most were black and then most white.
- "These organisations provided recruits for the security forces as well as private industry, including farms, mines and timber companies." For clarity, I suggest "as well as for private industry".
- "It has been alleged that several individuals sought to recruit volunteers". Alleged by who?
- The source doesn't say, but cites this back to several news stories - I've tweaked the wording to clarify. As it's entirely possible that some of the relevant people are still alive, I suspect that the author was being careful with his wording here, and per WP:BLP this seems sensible for me as well. Nick-D ( talk) 06:28, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- "Many of the volunteers became disillusioned with the Rhodesian cause after joining the country's security forces. This led to desertions.[52] For instance, an American volunteer deserted after five months in 1976 and considered joining the guerrillas as he developed a belief that the Rhodesian Army was "completely racist".[53] Several other volunteers left as they wanted to fight in more intense wars." You mention the disillusionment but only give untypical examples of motives. This paragraph is misleading and would be better merged with discussion of Rhodesian suspicion of the foreign volunteers.
- The 'Numbers of volunteers' section randomly lists estimates relating to varying dates and periods, which is not helpful. The section should be in text format and discuss the estimates.
- They're not really random, and there's not much to discuss - the sources are generally brief assertions that this is the number with no explanation of what it means. As White notes, it's difficult to understand and compare the different figures as a result of the lack of discussion in the source about what their figure comprises. I think that the current format captures this, and makes it clear to readers that there are a wide range of figures with quite different definitions/time periods. I'll play with some wording (likely in my sandbox), but an option might be to put this in a table, which is what I did in similar (but somewhat less complex) circumstances at Air raids on Japan#Casualties and damage - what do you think? Nick-D ( talk) 06:28, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- I think you need to clarify the difference between the British South Africa Police and the South Africa Police to avoid confusion.
- More to follow.
Dudley Miles (
talk) 16:52, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
- Many thanks - sorry for the slow response, I've needed to travel for work. I'll respond to these comments over the weekend.
Nick-D (
talk) 10:42, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
- @ Dudley Miles: thanks again for these comments: I think I've now addressed them. Please let me know if you have further comments. Nick-D ( talk) 22:46, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- Many thanks - sorry for the slow response, I've needed to travel for work. I'll respond to these comments over the weekend.
Nick-D (
talk) 10:42, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
- "The nationalist groups that were fighting the Rhodesian regime and many progressive groups worldwide". "progressive groups" is vague and POV.
- "but it declined to do so as a mercenary was not illegal". This sounds a bit odd. Maybe "being a mercenary"?
- "very few men were actually willing to put their futures on the line for the Smith [Rhodesian prime minister Ian Smith] regime". Smith was such a key figure (if I understand correctly) that I think it would be better to mention him earlier and then the explanation would be unnecessary.
- "Stephen Jeffreys' 1980 play 'The Jubilee Too' included a British volunteer who had returned from Rhodesia as one of its characters.[130]" I do not see how this bare mention adds to the article.
- "Ware and Campbell wrote in 2022 that the foreign volunteers had little influence on the war, and the pressure from western governments on the Rhodesian government to agree to a transition to majority rule was of greater importance." This seems a non-sequitur comparing two distinct things.
- Note 23 cites an article in
The National Interest. Both the article and the journal seem too controversial to be an RS.
- The authors appear appropriately qualified and there are no discussions at WP:RSN I can see ruling this source out. The consensus in the few discussions of it at RSN is that it should be treated as an opinionated source rather per WP:NEWSBLOG than a unreliable source. I've replaced the first reference, and attributed the views in the final reference to these authors in the text in line with the advice in the RSN discussions (the previous references attributed these views to them in the text). Please let me know if there are more recent developments casting doubt on this outfit though. Nick-D ( talk) 04:27, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- Mercenaries: The Scourge of the Developing World. This sounds like a polemic rather than an RS.
- It's published by a major publishing firm, and the notion put forward in the title is the dominant view of mercenaries in Africa: few experts have anything good to say about them (e.g. see the current coverage of the activities of the Wagner Group in various African countries for a taster of this - the conclusions reached by by historians on the activities of mercenaries in Congo in the 1960s, for instance, are broadly similar). Searching Google Books indicates that this book has been cited in a range of works on related topics: [3]. The author, Guy Arnold, also had a range of relevant expertise according to our article on him. As such, I don't think that there's an issue here. Nick-D ( talk) 04:27, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- I am not sure it is correct to say that the subject of the article is neglected. The sources section suggests that it is reasonably well covered for such a niche topic.
Dudley Miles (
talk) 13:16, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
- That's a statement made in one of few works dedicated to this topic, so I don't see grounds to dismiss it; no other source I'm aware of argues the opposite. It's also in line with what I found researching this article; as is noted in the source, most coverage of the topic in the various works cited in the article is a few pages of a much broader work. There are some big gaps in the literature as a result: for instance, there are no reliable estimates of the number of volunteers and any figures on their casualties, both of which are staples of military history works (no historian I've been able to find even hazards a guess about the casualties). Nick-D ( talk) 04:27, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- Support. Looks fine now. Dudley Miles ( talk) 08:26, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
Support Comments by JennyOz
Hi Nick, adding placeholder, intend to make comments in next week. JennyOz ( talk) 03:37, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
Golly, I think I'm finished. Sorry for delay but had to continually wipe and add bits to my notes as changes were being made. Not complaining! Forgive me if anything here has already been addressed. My list is long but it's mostly tiny prose and link type suggestions, very easy to instigate or ignore!
lede
- with the exact number not being known - an "exact" number would not be possible even with access to all records? Perhaps 'a more precise number' or 'firmer number', etc
- The volunteers had a range of motivations. - for joining
- The volunteers generally joined the Rhodesian Security Forces after seeing advertisements or after being contacted by recruiters. The Rhodesian government regarded the volunteers as unreliable - this seems strange, Rhodesia advertised for them but did not appreciate them... should there be something like 'However, the Rhodesian government came to regard the volunteers as ...
- I think this is OK, and reflects the sources: the Rhodesian government was in fact recruiting people it didn't really want. This was a long way from being the strangest thing the Rhodesian government did. The literature on the war notes that the Rhodesian war effort was riddled with similar counter-productive approaches. Nick-D ( talk) 10:33, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
- illegal to serve with the Rhodesian Security Forces due to the sanctions that - unhide international?
- In many countries it was illegal to serve with - illegal for its citizens to serve?
- prevent their citizens fighting for Rhodesia due to difficulties enforcing the relevant laws - enforcing their relevant laws
- The volunteers are celebrated - sometimes celebrated? or is it universal?
- celebrated by far right and white supremacist groups - hyphen far-right
- indicated that western governments supported - this is first of many but shouldn't any mention of western governments / countries / etc and of the west, all take a capital W?
Background Political situation
- whose economy and government was controled by - controlled
- Southern Rhodesia dominated this state - this federation?
- due to its relatively large white population - larger?
- From 1962 the Southern Rhodesian government was led by the Rhodesian Front political party. - add under its founder Winston Field and from 1964 by Ian Smith or similar? (Smith is not mentioned til much later in the article)
- As a result, Rhodesian economy grew strongly until - missing the
- "the Front’s world-struggle - curly apostrophe
- were ‘the sort of people who once made the “Great" of Britain’, while [through to] champion of the ‘Free World’. - single and double curlies
- Donal Lowry endorsed Evans' views in 2007, noting also that "the Rhodesia - where does Lowry's quote end? after sustaining racial superiority.?
- Maintaining a large flow of migrants considered necessary - was considered
- Maintaining a large flow of migrants considered necessary to maintain - 2 x maintain - swap one to sustain, prolong, continue, etc?
Rhodesian Bush War
- were regarded as communists by the - just communist?
- and a desire to end discriminatory practices through - racially discriminatory?
- establish bases in Mozambique as - in neighbouring Mozambique
- in Mozambique as Portuguese rule faltered and finally ended in 1975 - Portuguese rule there faltered
- coercing the Black population - only use of cap B
- Abel Muzorewa's United African National Council - move 's outside link to avoid seaofblue?
- to be a form of well meaning - add hyphen well-meaning
- other anglosphere countries - cap A
- helped win support for the Rhodesian cause in Australia, the United Kingdom and United States, - (not only those tho because also NZ and Canada) maybe 'helped win support for the Rhodesian cause in places such as Australia...
Rhodesian Security Forces
- strength of over 18,400, including 15,000 reservists, - so only 3,400 active members, half the number of BSAP?
- included 7,000 full time and - hyphen
- many of its officers had received training in the United Kingdom - prior to the war?
- Grey's Scouts and Armoured Car Regiment - the Armoured
- Armoured Car Regiment whose members were mainly white - comma after Regiment because all these were white (ie not just the ACR)
- and the Security Force Auxiliaries, which was almost entirely manned - were almost?
Recruitment processes
- It was expected that most of the volunteers - expected by whom, the govt?
- seeking volunteers in the international media - remove "the"
- Shotgun News - pipe link Firearms News
- Shooting Times. - pipe link Outdoor Sportsman Group?
- documents in their response - responses
- The Rhodesian government paid the airfares of volunteers who were unable to afford to travel until 1977 - ambiguous? perhaps 'Until 1977, the Rhodesian...
- Organisations representing veterans were another method - organisations not a method? perhaps venue, channel or similar?
- Several individuals and companies recruited United States citizens to fight in Rhodesia. These organisations - individuals aren't orgs? maybe just 'They' provided
- movement in Angola until that country's independence. - link Alvor Agreement?
Volunteers' motivations
- those available in their home country - countries
Numbers of volunteers
- Historians have provided a range of estimates. Peter Godwin - wlink and authorlink
- Military historians Paul L. Moorcraft and Peter McLaughlin stated - wlinks and authorlinks Paul Moorcraft and Peter McLaughlin
- though the Rhodesian Army put the number at 1,000 including 100 Americans - is this still Luise talking? If so, perhaps 'while also noting though that the Rhodesian Army put...
- the ex-Rhodesian generals - what's difference, if any, between an ex- or former (no change needed, just asking)
- served with the Rhodesian Security Forces between 1976 and 1980.[70] White has written that British citizens made up the majority of the foreign volunteers who served with the Rhodesian Security Forces - repetition? perhaps the second "served with the Rhodesian Security Forces " could be just 'who served'
Conditions and service
- between $US 4,000 and $US 7,000 annually - per MOS remove space and no need for second signifier... so US$4,000 and 7,000 annually
- Foreign volunteers were also offered land - free or to purchase?
- Neil Grant gave a lower figure - historian, academic?
- were from 38 different nationalities - can we say from nationalities or should that be 'of' 38 ...and I can see Ian removing "different":)
- and less experienced Rhodesians - hyphen
- foreign banks would not process this currency - could not? (ie as part of sanctions)
Nationalists
- fighting the Rhodesian regime and many progressive groups worldwide - add commas after "regime" and "worldwide" to avoid ambiguity
- and demanded in 1977 that this be halted - this flow be halted?
- the Organization of African Unity (OAU) - s not z?
- issued a statement condemning "certain non-African states" from failing to prevent their citizens from fighting for Rhodesia - something wrong with the two "from"s here? First one should be 'for'? Second "from" can go?
- that entire planeloads of British volunteers - entire not needed?
British government
- Several Labour Party members of parliament raised concerns about British citizens fighting for Rhodesia in parliament and - avoid parliament x2? perhaps 'Several Labour Party members raised concerns in parliament about British citizens fighting for Rhodesia and...
- The historian Hugh Patterson noted that - Pattenden? if so move intro ie The historian up to first mention?
- support among British conservatives for Rhodesia - definitely small c intended here, not party Conservatives? If so maybe 'conservative British/Britons'?
- "very few men were actually willing to put their futures on the line for the Smith" - re-add regime after Smith
Other foreign governments
- The United States' Neutrality Act of 1794 prohibits - apostrophe not used in other places
- American citizens who enlisted to fight for Rhodesia while overseas could - who enlisted while overseas to fight
- but this did not result in any policy changes - 'these did not? ie plural steps
Desertion by the volunteers
- Many of the foreign volunteers deserted before the end of their periods of enlistment - hmm you can't desert after so during their periods of enlistment? or 'Before the end of their periods of enlistment, many of the foreign volunteers deserted'
- volunteers left as a result of to the hostile reception. - remove to
Literature and historiography
- A range of works have provided - range is singular so... A range of works has provided
- Soldier of Fortune ran large numbers of articles on foreigners in the Rhodesian Security Forces during the Bush War; each edition published between 1975 and 1980 included at least one article on the subject. These articles frequently highlighted the experiences of Americans who were fighting in Rhodesia. The articles in Soldier of Fortune reflected Rhodesian government - there are 4x 'article/s' in here - consider swapping "These articles" to 'They' and/or "The articles in Soldier of Fortune" to Some reflected
- they claimed that the country was a western democracy, the war was being fought against communism and did not discuss the oppression of Rhodesia's black majority - maybe 'they claimed that the country was a western democracy and that the war was being fought against communism. They did not discuss the oppression of Rhodesia's black majority.
- It was finished in 1980 and published in 1991. - does White give any significance to the 11-year delay in publishing? Ah, I came across that on
American volunteers in the Rhodesian Bush War, controversy! Was published under different name ie The White Tribe
- She says that while the author "seemed to have hinted that the government stopped the publication of Crippled Eagles, I think it is more likely that he understood that this was not the right time for his novel". I don't think that this is relevant to this article. Nick-D ( talk) 01:54, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
- Stephen Jeffreys' 1980 play 'The Jubilee Too' included - italics on The Jubilee Too (MOS:MAJORWORK)
- Ware and Campell have stated that the foreign volunteers - typo Campbell
References
- 108 Pattenden 2021, p. 784-785 - pp
- Wheaton, Elizabeth - Athens, Georga - typo Georgia
Categories
- For same name cat Foreign volunteers in the Rhodesian Security Forces - as this is the main article for that cat, it should have a pipe and space to appear at top of cat page per WP:SORTKEY?
Images
- alt=A map of Africa with Rhodesia's borders highlighted. - more informative to explain 'outlining Rhodesia in the south east of the continent'?
- alt=Black and white image of seven men in military uniforms below a large flag - ... in differing military uniforms below a large Rhodesian Army flag. It reads, "Your career is here - in the Rhodesian Army"
Template
- in the nav Template:Rhodesian Security Forces of the Bush War, should US be small in brackets after Foreign volunteers?
Late extras
- title=‘Honoured More in the Breach than in the Observance’ - curlies
- dollar|R$]] 3,104 and black Rhodesians R$ 312. - remove spaces
- no more than R$ 1,500 to - remove space
Thanks for your patience! JennyOz ( talk) 05:48, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
- Many thanks for this detailed review Jenny - I'll start working through these comments tomorrow. Nick-D ( talk) 09:22, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
- @ JennyOz: thank you again for this excellent review. I think that I might have now addressed all these comments. Nick-D ( talk) 01:54, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
Support from Gog the Mild
I am going to let Jenny do her thing, then give me a ping and I'll have a look through. Gog the Mild ( talk) 15:46, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- @ Gog the Mild: I think that I've now worked through Jenny's comments. Nick-D ( talk) 01:58, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks Nick. I have been away and come back to a bit of a backlog, but it is on my list. Feel free to nag me.
Gog the Mild (
talk) 13:07, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
- @ Gog the Mild: thanks for this. I'll take you up on the offer of nagging, as I'm departing for a lengthy overseas holiday in a couple of weeks, and am hoping to have this nomination wrapped up one way or the other by then. I'll have a laptop, but my Wikipedia time is likely to be pretty limited. Nick-D ( talk) 10:10, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks Nick. I have been away and come back to a bit of a backlog, but it is on my list. Feel free to nag me.
Gog the Mild (
talk) 13:07, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
- de Boer: could you provide the ISSN (0026-4148) and/or the OCLC (768516153).
- All article titles should be in sentence case. (How they appear in their originals is irrelevant.)
Saving this for the evening. More to follow. Gog the Mild ( talk) 23:22, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
- "from the mid-1970s to address manpower shortages". Consider 'from the mid-1970s until 1980 to address manpower shortages'.
- "As Rhodesia's independence was not internationally recognised and its government and economy were controlled by the small white minority of its population, decisions to volunteer to fight for the country were often motivated by individuals' political views and the issue attracted a degree of controversy." I fail to see how the two parts of this sentence connect. Consider splitting. (It is a bit long anyway.) The part about decisions to volunteer etc seems to be covered in detail in the next paragraph.
- "after seeing advertisements or after being contacted". Remove the second "after"?
- "Southern Rhodesia was a self-governing British colony". Suggest including when it started and ended its existence at this point.
- I've adjusted this para. 00:44, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
- "had little difficulty in defeating the guerrillas." Is "in" necessary?
- "whose members were mainly white." Suggest deleting. This has been established in the previous sentence.
- "The historian Luise White". Should be introduced at first mention.
- "Those who were combat veterans resented being ...". Every single one of them. Sounds improbable. What does the source say?
- "leading to protests." By whom? US citizens, foreign countries, the UN, all of these?
That's all I have. Gog the Mild ( talk) 18:49, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
- Neat. Gog the Mild ( talk) 10:34, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
Coord note
Have I missed a source review? If still wanting, let's list at the top of WT:FAC... Cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 21:35, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
- @
Ian Rose: no, there hasn't been a source review yet
Nick-D (
talk) 10:11, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
- Leave it with me. I'll post one shortly. Peacemaker67 ( click to talk to me) 08:31, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
- @
Ian Rose: this might now be ready to be closed. Willbb234 has maintained their oppose, but I think that I've addressed all their comments and they declined to clarify or expand further. There are four supports, with those editors' comments having touched on Willbb234's concerns, and passes source and image reviews.
Nick-D (
talk) 03:41, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, the numbers are not the biggest thing but how critical comments have been resolved, or attempted to be resolved, and I think we're good to go in that respect. Certainly other reviewers have had plenty of time to consider the opposing comments and have still come down for promotion, and we have a mix of MilHist and non-MilHist participants. Cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 09:52, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
Source review - pass
- there are hyphens in page ranges in footnotes. eg {{sfn|Geldenhuys|1990|pp=59-62, 67}} Should they be endashes?
- all the sources are of high quality and reliable. The Stackpole book is leveled up significantly by the bona fides of the authors, and is completely fine for what it is being used for.
- the formatting of the citations is excellent, and it is well footnoted.
Overall, very good. Pass. Peacemaker67 ( click to talk to me) 08:50, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{ featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose ( talk) 09:53, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot ( talk) 3 October 2023 [1].
Foreign volunteers in the Rhodesian Security Forces
This article covers an interesting element of the Rhodesian Bush War; the involvement of foreign volunteers (sometimes considered mercenaries) on the side of the repressive Rhodesian regime. Due to secrecy during the war and difficulties accessing Rhodesian records, the number of these volunteers is not known but is generally considered to have been between 800 and 2,000. They were most commonly motivated by racism, but a desire for adventure also played an important part. The Rhodesian government never fully trusted the volunteers, and many deserted after receiving a hostile reception from their Rhodesian comrades who typically considered them to be adventurers. Despite their modest impact on the war, the volunteers are admired by modern white supremacist and far-right groups.
I wrote most of this article last year, and it was assessed as a GA in February 2022 and passed a Military History Wikiproject A-class review last June. It has since been expanded and copy edited, and I'm hopeful that the FA criteria are met. Thank you in advance for your comments. Nick-D ( talk) 23:49, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
Image review
- File:Cover_of_a_Rhodesian_Army_recruitment_leaflet_sent_to_British_soldiers_in_1976_-_fair_use_claimed.jpg could use a more detailed purpose of use statement
- File:Rhodesian_Army_Flag.svg needs a tag for the original design
- File:Air_Force_Ensign_of_Rhodesia_(1970–1979).svg: I'm a bit confused by the licensing here - was the legal successor for this work the UK or Zimbabwe?
Nikkimaria (
talk) 23:58, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
- Those two images form part of a navbox template. I've removed them, as I agree that they can't be assumed to be PD given the somewhat unclear situation with Rhodesian-era copyrights (which is why the article has very few images). Thank you for these comments. Nick-D ( talk) 00:03, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
Funk
- Southern Rhodesia is duplinked in the article body.
- Link southern Africa, United Nations, and British colony?
- As a pretty obscure subject to probably many readers, I think the article needs some more context in the beginning, as underlined below, following the comprehensiveness FAC criterion.
- "white Southern Rhodesians predominately spoke English and had a similar culture to those in other English-speaking countries" Clarify if this is because they were more recent arrivals? Perhaps worth stating when Rhodesia was colonised for context?
- "Anglophobia,[a] anti-communism, anti-internationalism, and anti-liberalism" While a quote, I wonder if these should be linked?
- "The academic Michael Evans has written" Could we get a year for context? So we know whether it was contemporary or retrospective?
- "The historian Donal Lowry has endorsed Evans' views" Likewise.
- I think it's also important to note for context that what happened to Northern Rhodesia, that it had a similar history and when it became Zambia. I'm sure that event had an effect on these southern factions and how they perceived decolonialism. And also since many readers will wonder why this is called Southern Rhodesia at the start of the article.
- It seems odd that decolonialism is only mentioned and linked in a footnote. Could perhaps already be linked at "ideology held that the end of colonial rule in Africa".
- Link black nationalist?
- "The Rhodesians' brutal counterinsurgency tactics also proved counter-productive." Any notable examples?
- "to establish bases in Mozambique as Portuguese rule faltered" It seems linking modern countries is discouraged, but perhaps Mozambican War of Independence or similar should be linked instead?
- "Its editor was a strong supporter of the white Rhodesian cause" Name him?
- "from Djibouti upon that country's independence" Link an article about this?
- Done - Independence Day (Djibouti) seems to be the best of the limited range of opinions. Nick-D ( talk) 07:47, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- "The Rhodesian Minister of Defence denied in 1975" Name him?
- "were generally motivated by personal political and ideological beliefs or a desire for adventure" What is this based on?
- Now anti-communism is duplinked.
- "or a desire for adventure" and "Other volunteers enlisted seeking an adventure" seems like the same statement twice in a paragraph?
- "The academic Luise White has written" and "Similarly, Kyle Burke has noted" again, could get dates.
- "In 1979 the Zimbabwe Rhodesia[b] government proposed" and "Rhodesia was renamed Zimbabwe Rhodesia" I think that in addition to the footnote, you should mention there in the article body itself that it was the renamed Rhodesia for clarity.
- "The volunteers also received the same pay as white Rhodesians,[53] between $US 4,000 and $US 7,000 annually." I wonder if anyone can be said about the funding of this without going too much into detail about Rhodesian economics. How could they afford this, was it a wealthy country, and based on what industry?
- Link neo-Nazi.
- "but it declined to do so as it was working as a mercenary was legal." I'm not sure I understand this, malformed sentence?
- "of parliament raised concerns about British citizens fighting for Rhodesia in parliament" Not sure the first "parliament" is needed then, repetitive.
- "put their futures on the line for the Smith" The Smith?
- You list some countries and discuss their relationships to Rhodesia, I wonder if there are some articles about the specific countries and their relations?
- We don't really have any articles on bilateral relations between various countries and Rhodesia that are useful in this context - see United Kingdom–Zimbabwe relations and United States–Zimbabwe relations, for instance, which I don't think add anything that readers of this article need to know that the article doesn't already note. There are currently no dedicated articles on Rhodesia's bilateral relations or overall foreign relations, which is a bit of a gap. Nick-D ( talk) 10:03, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- "Some other volunteers left as a result of to the hostile reception" Stray "to"?
- I wonder why the rather short
American volunteers in the Rhodesian Bush War article isn't rolled into this one? Especially considering the far more numerous UK volunteers don't have their own article.
- That article is too detailed, and poorly sourced, to sensibly roll in (e.g. the table of information on casualties). The topic is also notable in isolation, and the article could be considerably expanded. A separate article could be created on British volunteers if anyone wanted to, and my to-do list for Rhodesian topics includes starting an article on South Africa's role in the war. Nick-D ( talk) 10:03, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- The intro probably needs just a bit more context on what Rhodesia was, that it was a white majority, unrecognised state.
- "and economic hardship" Hardship isn't mentioned as a factor outside the intro.
- Link white supremacist in intro, and there also seems other subjects could be linked there.
- Changes look good, but there are a couple of unanswered points above which I'm not sure have been addressed or not. FunkMonk ( talk) 11:00, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- @ FunkMonk: many thanks for this detailed review. I think that I might have now addressed those comments. Nick-D ( talk) 10:46, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
Oppose from Willbb234
Hi, thanks for nominating. I saw this pop up on the FAC feed a while ago but only yesterday I got round to reviewing - I spent a few hours reading various sources and the article and there were some issues in the sample of sources I looked at, which unfortunately has led me to oppose.
- The volunteer's motivations section is the main place where I concentrated on as it underpins the whole article.
- You write that
The academic Luise White has written that they were commonly opposed to the establishment of governments run by black people and did not have any particular commitment to Rhodesia itself.
While the source states thatForeign soldiers raise questions about what might link place and warfare: patria is not the issue, politics is. And the politics are queerly utopian: somewhere communism had to be stopped; somewhere men had to stand up against terrorism; somewhere the western world had to stand fast against the eastern hordes. All these tropes, of course, meant race: it was a black government that these men came to fight against.
This gave me pause as the interpretation of the source doesn't seem quite right. I'm not entirely sure that the purpose was actually to come to Rhodesia in order to fight against a black government (although this was undoubtedly a motivation for at least some of the volunteers) and the source certainly does not state that this was a 'common' motivation. I would also note that anti-communism was driven by ideology rather than racism, but that's probably heading into Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth territory.- That seems a rather odd interpretation of the source to be frank. White states that "All these tropes, of course, meant race: it was a black government that these men came to fight against". She later notes on the same page that "that fighting for all the tropes that meant white rule was also without any loyalty to a nation, without any historical specificity, or even a sense of place: Rhodesia just happened to be in the right place at the right time for these soldiers". This supports the wording in the article. Nick-D ( talk) 10:00, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
- Kyle Burke also notes that racism and paternalism underpinned Americans decisions to fight for Rhodesia, which is similar to what White argues; I've added this. Nick-D ( talk) 08:42, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- You then write that
The most common motivation was opposition to governments led by black people
in the lede. This appears to stray further from what the source says. The source doesn't say that this was the "most common motivation". In fact, p. 183-184 of this source doesn't even mention race as a motivation, never mind the "most common" one. It seems that some questionable interpretation of the source has been amplified in the lede.- The source here is White, who as I note above does in fact support this statement [Edit: as does Burke]. I've tweaked this though after reviewing some other sources; as you note, other sources focus more on anti-communism and White also notes this was a key factor. Nick-D ( talk) 10:45, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
Many volunteers were also strongly anti-communist, and wanted to stop the further spread of this ideology in Africa
however, the given source doesn't mention that there were 'many' just thatThere were other men who came to Rhodesia because of their intense belief that Rhodesia was the next battleground against communism.
I'm also questioning the PhD thesis used as a source. I tried to find out if this was peer-reviewed, but I couldn't find anything.- I've tweaked this per the above, but sources clearly support the use of "many" in this context. This PhD thesis is noted by Pattenden as part of the literature on the topic (which is how I found it), so is fine per WP:SCHOLARSHIP. I'd suggest that it's necessary to consult it given Pattenden noted that it's one of the few works covering this topic. The thesis has also recently been turned into this book, but as the book covers the volunteer/mercenary issue in less detail and the thesis meets the requirements I'm not seeing the benefit in reworking the citations; I could do so if you think it essential though, to the extent the material on this topic carried over to the book. Nick-D ( talk) 22:35, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
- My general concerns surround how the information in the sources has been presented here. Considering that we are are not sure of exactly how many volunteers served in the force, how can we be sure of what is the 'most common' motivation or whether 'many' men had certain motivations without sources explicitly telling us? I think there needs to be some considerable work here and some more consideration as to how this is summarised in the lede.
- I next considered the following sentences:
In addition to the actual volunteers, thousands of South African Police and South African Defence Force (SADF) personnel were deployed to Rhodesia by the South African government to serve in or alongside the Rhodesian Security Forces. These men were often directed to wear Rhodesian uniforms, and the South African government falsely claimed that some had volunteered for the Rhodesian Security Forces.
and the source [2]. - Firstly, I'm not sure that the source backs up that the South African government "falsely claimed that some had volunteered for the Rhodesian Security Forces" - this is what the source has to say
Indeed, a number of SAP members 'volunteered' to serve alongside their Rhodesian counterparts and so were seconded to and integrated with the RSF.
. Maybe the government did, but I don't think we can be sure of this considering the wording in the source.- As noted by the source, the South African government was covertly deploying police and military personnel to Rhodesia. People who are 'volunteered' are not in fact real volunteers, so the wording in the article on this issue is correct. I've tweaked the wording to be more specific though. Nick-D ( talk) 11:02, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
- Regarding the bit about uniforms, this is what the source has to say
He added that 'in the interests of effective military operations it is further requested that the SADF personnel attached to the ZR Security Forces appear in ZR uniforms'
it appears that this was only done towards the end of the war (from about November 1979 onwards) but the implication in the source that this was done throughout the time that South Africans were in Rhodesia perhaps several years earlier. The use of the word 'often' (which isn't used in the source) seems to also have the effect of suggesting that this was common practice or done throughout the second half of the 1970s.- That's a good point: I seem to have gotten confused here regrding "These men were often directed to wear Rhodesian uniforms" given this was a request from the Zimbabwe-Rhodesian Government only. I've removed that sentence, and replaced it with material noting that much of this support was provided covertly and more specific wording. The rest of the statement other than that on uniforms was correct.
Nick-D (
talk) 10:00, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
- Actually, I was correct initially, but hadn't cited the source I would have originally seen this in (as part of working on the other related articles) - I've done so now. The South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission found that South African conscripts were posted to the Rhodesian Army and required to fight wearing Rhodesian uniforms. Nick-D ( talk) 06:18, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- That's a good point: I seem to have gotten confused here regrding "These men were often directed to wear Rhodesian uniforms" given this was a request from the Zimbabwe-Rhodesian Government only. I've removed that sentence, and replaced it with material noting that much of this support was provided covertly and more specific wording. The rest of the statement other than that on uniforms was correct.
Nick-D (
talk) 10:00, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
- Another concern I have is the wording here:
Opponents of the regime frequently highlighted the issue of 'mercenaries' fighting for Rhodesia, and claimed that they were often mentally unstable and had little regard for civilian casualties
while the source states thatOpponents of the Rhodesian effort often accused the government of recruiting and employing mercenaries who were unstable and who did not care about the safety of civilians.
It's very nuanced, but I think the criticism was over the employment of unstable mercenaries and not over the general employment of mercenaries which included unstable mercenaries. I hope I'm making some sense. Once again, the use of the PhD thesis, especially for a claim like this needs another check. See WP:SCHOLARSHIP. I'm not saying it shouldn't be used, but I think there should be some clear reasoning why this is reliable.- Please see page 184 of the source (which forms part of the citation), where it is stated that "The matter of mercenary service in Rhodesia became an obsession for those opposed to the settler regime". Lots of other sources support this as well, but I don't see the benefit in sourceboming something cited to a reliable source. As such, the source supports the statement. Nick-D ( talk) 10:30, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
The approach I generally take is that if I find issues in a sample of source checks, then I'm going to assume that there would be further issues in the rest of the article, so there would be grounds for an oppose based on not meeting WP:FACR 1c. Therefore, I don't believe the issues could be addressed within the FA review and would require further work beyond the review. I do hope that my review is also not coming across as too tough - I try my best to be thorough. Prose seems good and the article is well structured. Once again, thanks for nominating and best of luck with the rest of the review. Willbb234 13:47, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
- @
Willbb234: I think that I've now addressed your comments. To be frank, I don't think that they're major comments, including as you've made some mistakes in reading some of the sources. Apologies for the convoluted editing history with my responses here - I'm perhaps unwisely responding at the end of a busy day!
Nick-D (
talk) 10:58, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for the responses. You'll note that I said that it was an "odd interpretation" and not the wrong interpretation. I think part of this stems from the fact that White's style of writing is quite shit. I'm fairly well educated and at times I was struggling to decipher what she was saying. I also found it difficult to differentiate where the factual parts of the source moved into the opinion-based parts.
- I don't agree with some of your other assessments, but I'm not going to argue over this and I feel it would be best to leave this to others to determine. My decision over an oppose !vote has not changed.
Willbb234 18:11, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- @
Willbb234: That's pretty disappointing to be honest. I think that I've addressed your comments, and to state that I haven't addressed some but not identify what they are is poor form. I'd ask that you strike the oppose if you don't intend to continue the review.
Nick-D (
talk) 09:52, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
- Try again. I outlined my approach above. You can address these issues all you like but the article will require serious work i.e. going through all the sources again and actually making sure that there's no discrepancies between the sources and content. And no, it's perfectly acceptable form. I identified a number of issues and provided a clear rationale as to why this shouldn't be an FA. I wouldn't believe you right now if you told me there's no more discrepancies in the article. It's also not my fault if you're ego can't accept the oppose and you feel the need to try to intimidate me into removing it. That's not going to happen. Willbb234 19:18, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
- @
Willbb234: That's pretty disappointing to be honest. I think that I've addressed your comments, and to state that I haven't addressed some but not identify what they are is poor form. I'd ask that you strike the oppose if you don't intend to continue the review.
Nick-D (
talk) 09:52, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
Comments by Dudley
- "Few works by historians have been published on the volunteers, and they are celebrated by far right and white supremacist groups who admire Rhodesia." This seems to combine two unrelated statements as if they are somehow connected.
- "dominated by the small white minority of its population". This understates the position. I think you should spell out that only whites had votes.
- I don't think that's correct; as the Politics of Rhodesia article notes, a minority of black Rhodesians had the vote, and could stand for parliament. The system was rigged in various ways though so that the small white minority utterly dominated the colony/country's political system. I've added a link to this article here to help readers understand the situation, which I'd suggest is too complex to attempt to cover in this article. Nick-D ( talk) 03:55, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- Dominated seems to me too weak. At times it would have been correct to say that the British government was dominated by Eton graduates. How about "controlled"? Dudley Miles ( talk) 12:56, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
- "virulent forms of Anglophobia, anti-communism, anti-internationalism, and anti-liberalism". Anglophobia seems a curious term and requires clarification as they claimed to stand for true Britishness against the current UK government.
- "Guerrilla activities began in 1966, and mainly involved small groups operating in northern Rhodesia." from rather than in northern Rhodesia?
- "The cultural similarities between the white Rhodesian and British communities". What does "British communities" mean in this context?
- "The Army's structure of administrative corps was similar to that of the British Army". What does "structure of administrative corps" mean? This needs clarifying.
- I've tweaked the wording and link to clarify this; it refers to how the branches of the army were structured (infantry, artillery, transport, etc). Surprisingly, we don't have articles on the British Army's structure of administrative corps (or that of the Rhodesian Army's) that can be linked here. Nick-D ( talk) 06:13, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- "While most of the security forces' personnel were black, the Rhodesian government had a strong preference for whites.[23] The army units manned by full time personnel, which included a high proportion of white regular and conscripted soldiers, were the most powerful element of the security forces" This is unclear. You seem to say first that most were black and then most white.
- "These organisations provided recruits for the security forces as well as private industry, including farms, mines and timber companies." For clarity, I suggest "as well as for private industry".
- "It has been alleged that several individuals sought to recruit volunteers". Alleged by who?
- The source doesn't say, but cites this back to several news stories - I've tweaked the wording to clarify. As it's entirely possible that some of the relevant people are still alive, I suspect that the author was being careful with his wording here, and per WP:BLP this seems sensible for me as well. Nick-D ( talk) 06:28, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- "Many of the volunteers became disillusioned with the Rhodesian cause after joining the country's security forces. This led to desertions.[52] For instance, an American volunteer deserted after five months in 1976 and considered joining the guerrillas as he developed a belief that the Rhodesian Army was "completely racist".[53] Several other volunteers left as they wanted to fight in more intense wars." You mention the disillusionment but only give untypical examples of motives. This paragraph is misleading and would be better merged with discussion of Rhodesian suspicion of the foreign volunteers.
- The 'Numbers of volunteers' section randomly lists estimates relating to varying dates and periods, which is not helpful. The section should be in text format and discuss the estimates.
- They're not really random, and there's not much to discuss - the sources are generally brief assertions that this is the number with no explanation of what it means. As White notes, it's difficult to understand and compare the different figures as a result of the lack of discussion in the source about what their figure comprises. I think that the current format captures this, and makes it clear to readers that there are a wide range of figures with quite different definitions/time periods. I'll play with some wording (likely in my sandbox), but an option might be to put this in a table, which is what I did in similar (but somewhat less complex) circumstances at Air raids on Japan#Casualties and damage - what do you think? Nick-D ( talk) 06:28, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- I think you need to clarify the difference between the British South Africa Police and the South Africa Police to avoid confusion.
- More to follow.
Dudley Miles (
talk) 16:52, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
- Many thanks - sorry for the slow response, I've needed to travel for work. I'll respond to these comments over the weekend.
Nick-D (
talk) 10:42, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
- @ Dudley Miles: thanks again for these comments: I think I've now addressed them. Please let me know if you have further comments. Nick-D ( talk) 22:46, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- Many thanks - sorry for the slow response, I've needed to travel for work. I'll respond to these comments over the weekend.
Nick-D (
talk) 10:42, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
- "The nationalist groups that were fighting the Rhodesian regime and many progressive groups worldwide". "progressive groups" is vague and POV.
- "but it declined to do so as a mercenary was not illegal". This sounds a bit odd. Maybe "being a mercenary"?
- "very few men were actually willing to put their futures on the line for the Smith [Rhodesian prime minister Ian Smith] regime". Smith was such a key figure (if I understand correctly) that I think it would be better to mention him earlier and then the explanation would be unnecessary.
- "Stephen Jeffreys' 1980 play 'The Jubilee Too' included a British volunteer who had returned from Rhodesia as one of its characters.[130]" I do not see how this bare mention adds to the article.
- "Ware and Campbell wrote in 2022 that the foreign volunteers had little influence on the war, and the pressure from western governments on the Rhodesian government to agree to a transition to majority rule was of greater importance." This seems a non-sequitur comparing two distinct things.
- Note 23 cites an article in
The National Interest. Both the article and the journal seem too controversial to be an RS.
- The authors appear appropriately qualified and there are no discussions at WP:RSN I can see ruling this source out. The consensus in the few discussions of it at RSN is that it should be treated as an opinionated source rather per WP:NEWSBLOG than a unreliable source. I've replaced the first reference, and attributed the views in the final reference to these authors in the text in line with the advice in the RSN discussions (the previous references attributed these views to them in the text). Please let me know if there are more recent developments casting doubt on this outfit though. Nick-D ( talk) 04:27, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- Mercenaries: The Scourge of the Developing World. This sounds like a polemic rather than an RS.
- It's published by a major publishing firm, and the notion put forward in the title is the dominant view of mercenaries in Africa: few experts have anything good to say about them (e.g. see the current coverage of the activities of the Wagner Group in various African countries for a taster of this - the conclusions reached by by historians on the activities of mercenaries in Congo in the 1960s, for instance, are broadly similar). Searching Google Books indicates that this book has been cited in a range of works on related topics: [3]. The author, Guy Arnold, also had a range of relevant expertise according to our article on him. As such, I don't think that there's an issue here. Nick-D ( talk) 04:27, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- I am not sure it is correct to say that the subject of the article is neglected. The sources section suggests that it is reasonably well covered for such a niche topic.
Dudley Miles (
talk) 13:16, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
- That's a statement made in one of few works dedicated to this topic, so I don't see grounds to dismiss it; no other source I'm aware of argues the opposite. It's also in line with what I found researching this article; as is noted in the source, most coverage of the topic in the various works cited in the article is a few pages of a much broader work. There are some big gaps in the literature as a result: for instance, there are no reliable estimates of the number of volunteers and any figures on their casualties, both of which are staples of military history works (no historian I've been able to find even hazards a guess about the casualties). Nick-D ( talk) 04:27, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- Support. Looks fine now. Dudley Miles ( talk) 08:26, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
Support Comments by JennyOz
Hi Nick, adding placeholder, intend to make comments in next week. JennyOz ( talk) 03:37, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
Golly, I think I'm finished. Sorry for delay but had to continually wipe and add bits to my notes as changes were being made. Not complaining! Forgive me if anything here has already been addressed. My list is long but it's mostly tiny prose and link type suggestions, very easy to instigate or ignore!
lede
- with the exact number not being known - an "exact" number would not be possible even with access to all records? Perhaps 'a more precise number' or 'firmer number', etc
- The volunteers had a range of motivations. - for joining
- The volunteers generally joined the Rhodesian Security Forces after seeing advertisements or after being contacted by recruiters. The Rhodesian government regarded the volunteers as unreliable - this seems strange, Rhodesia advertised for them but did not appreciate them... should there be something like 'However, the Rhodesian government came to regard the volunteers as ...
- I think this is OK, and reflects the sources: the Rhodesian government was in fact recruiting people it didn't really want. This was a long way from being the strangest thing the Rhodesian government did. The literature on the war notes that the Rhodesian war effort was riddled with similar counter-productive approaches. Nick-D ( talk) 10:33, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
- illegal to serve with the Rhodesian Security Forces due to the sanctions that - unhide international?
- In many countries it was illegal to serve with - illegal for its citizens to serve?
- prevent their citizens fighting for Rhodesia due to difficulties enforcing the relevant laws - enforcing their relevant laws
- The volunteers are celebrated - sometimes celebrated? or is it universal?
- celebrated by far right and white supremacist groups - hyphen far-right
- indicated that western governments supported - this is first of many but shouldn't any mention of western governments / countries / etc and of the west, all take a capital W?
Background Political situation
- whose economy and government was controled by - controlled
- Southern Rhodesia dominated this state - this federation?
- due to its relatively large white population - larger?
- From 1962 the Southern Rhodesian government was led by the Rhodesian Front political party. - add under its founder Winston Field and from 1964 by Ian Smith or similar? (Smith is not mentioned til much later in the article)
- As a result, Rhodesian economy grew strongly until - missing the
- "the Front’s world-struggle - curly apostrophe
- were ‘the sort of people who once made the “Great" of Britain’, while [through to] champion of the ‘Free World’. - single and double curlies
- Donal Lowry endorsed Evans' views in 2007, noting also that "the Rhodesia - where does Lowry's quote end? after sustaining racial superiority.?
- Maintaining a large flow of migrants considered necessary - was considered
- Maintaining a large flow of migrants considered necessary to maintain - 2 x maintain - swap one to sustain, prolong, continue, etc?
Rhodesian Bush War
- were regarded as communists by the - just communist?
- and a desire to end discriminatory practices through - racially discriminatory?
- establish bases in Mozambique as - in neighbouring Mozambique
- in Mozambique as Portuguese rule faltered and finally ended in 1975 - Portuguese rule there faltered
- coercing the Black population - only use of cap B
- Abel Muzorewa's United African National Council - move 's outside link to avoid seaofblue?
- to be a form of well meaning - add hyphen well-meaning
- other anglosphere countries - cap A
- helped win support for the Rhodesian cause in Australia, the United Kingdom and United States, - (not only those tho because also NZ and Canada) maybe 'helped win support for the Rhodesian cause in places such as Australia...
Rhodesian Security Forces
- strength of over 18,400, including 15,000 reservists, - so only 3,400 active members, half the number of BSAP?
- included 7,000 full time and - hyphen
- many of its officers had received training in the United Kingdom - prior to the war?
- Grey's Scouts and Armoured Car Regiment - the Armoured
- Armoured Car Regiment whose members were mainly white - comma after Regiment because all these were white (ie not just the ACR)
- and the Security Force Auxiliaries, which was almost entirely manned - were almost?
Recruitment processes
- It was expected that most of the volunteers - expected by whom, the govt?
- seeking volunteers in the international media - remove "the"
- Shotgun News - pipe link Firearms News
- Shooting Times. - pipe link Outdoor Sportsman Group?
- documents in their response - responses
- The Rhodesian government paid the airfares of volunteers who were unable to afford to travel until 1977 - ambiguous? perhaps 'Until 1977, the Rhodesian...
- Organisations representing veterans were another method - organisations not a method? perhaps venue, channel or similar?
- Several individuals and companies recruited United States citizens to fight in Rhodesia. These organisations - individuals aren't orgs? maybe just 'They' provided
- movement in Angola until that country's independence. - link Alvor Agreement?
Volunteers' motivations
- those available in their home country - countries
Numbers of volunteers
- Historians have provided a range of estimates. Peter Godwin - wlink and authorlink
- Military historians Paul L. Moorcraft and Peter McLaughlin stated - wlinks and authorlinks Paul Moorcraft and Peter McLaughlin
- though the Rhodesian Army put the number at 1,000 including 100 Americans - is this still Luise talking? If so, perhaps 'while also noting though that the Rhodesian Army put...
- the ex-Rhodesian generals - what's difference, if any, between an ex- or former (no change needed, just asking)
- served with the Rhodesian Security Forces between 1976 and 1980.[70] White has written that British citizens made up the majority of the foreign volunteers who served with the Rhodesian Security Forces - repetition? perhaps the second "served with the Rhodesian Security Forces " could be just 'who served'
Conditions and service
- between $US 4,000 and $US 7,000 annually - per MOS remove space and no need for second signifier... so US$4,000 and 7,000 annually
- Foreign volunteers were also offered land - free or to purchase?
- Neil Grant gave a lower figure - historian, academic?
- were from 38 different nationalities - can we say from nationalities or should that be 'of' 38 ...and I can see Ian removing "different":)
- and less experienced Rhodesians - hyphen
- foreign banks would not process this currency - could not? (ie as part of sanctions)
Nationalists
- fighting the Rhodesian regime and many progressive groups worldwide - add commas after "regime" and "worldwide" to avoid ambiguity
- and demanded in 1977 that this be halted - this flow be halted?
- the Organization of African Unity (OAU) - s not z?
- issued a statement condemning "certain non-African states" from failing to prevent their citizens from fighting for Rhodesia - something wrong with the two "from"s here? First one should be 'for'? Second "from" can go?
- that entire planeloads of British volunteers - entire not needed?
British government
- Several Labour Party members of parliament raised concerns about British citizens fighting for Rhodesia in parliament and - avoid parliament x2? perhaps 'Several Labour Party members raised concerns in parliament about British citizens fighting for Rhodesia and...
- The historian Hugh Patterson noted that - Pattenden? if so move intro ie The historian up to first mention?
- support among British conservatives for Rhodesia - definitely small c intended here, not party Conservatives? If so maybe 'conservative British/Britons'?
- "very few men were actually willing to put their futures on the line for the Smith" - re-add regime after Smith
Other foreign governments
- The United States' Neutrality Act of 1794 prohibits - apostrophe not used in other places
- American citizens who enlisted to fight for Rhodesia while overseas could - who enlisted while overseas to fight
- but this did not result in any policy changes - 'these did not? ie plural steps
Desertion by the volunteers
- Many of the foreign volunteers deserted before the end of their periods of enlistment - hmm you can't desert after so during their periods of enlistment? or 'Before the end of their periods of enlistment, many of the foreign volunteers deserted'
- volunteers left as a result of to the hostile reception. - remove to
Literature and historiography
- A range of works have provided - range is singular so... A range of works has provided
- Soldier of Fortune ran large numbers of articles on foreigners in the Rhodesian Security Forces during the Bush War; each edition published between 1975 and 1980 included at least one article on the subject. These articles frequently highlighted the experiences of Americans who were fighting in Rhodesia. The articles in Soldier of Fortune reflected Rhodesian government - there are 4x 'article/s' in here - consider swapping "These articles" to 'They' and/or "The articles in Soldier of Fortune" to Some reflected
- they claimed that the country was a western democracy, the war was being fought against communism and did not discuss the oppression of Rhodesia's black majority - maybe 'they claimed that the country was a western democracy and that the war was being fought against communism. They did not discuss the oppression of Rhodesia's black majority.
- It was finished in 1980 and published in 1991. - does White give any significance to the 11-year delay in publishing? Ah, I came across that on
American volunteers in the Rhodesian Bush War, controversy! Was published under different name ie The White Tribe
- She says that while the author "seemed to have hinted that the government stopped the publication of Crippled Eagles, I think it is more likely that he understood that this was not the right time for his novel". I don't think that this is relevant to this article. Nick-D ( talk) 01:54, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
- Stephen Jeffreys' 1980 play 'The Jubilee Too' included - italics on The Jubilee Too (MOS:MAJORWORK)
- Ware and Campell have stated that the foreign volunteers - typo Campbell
References
- 108 Pattenden 2021, p. 784-785 - pp
- Wheaton, Elizabeth - Athens, Georga - typo Georgia
Categories
- For same name cat Foreign volunteers in the Rhodesian Security Forces - as this is the main article for that cat, it should have a pipe and space to appear at top of cat page per WP:SORTKEY?
Images
- alt=A map of Africa with Rhodesia's borders highlighted. - more informative to explain 'outlining Rhodesia in the south east of the continent'?
- alt=Black and white image of seven men in military uniforms below a large flag - ... in differing military uniforms below a large Rhodesian Army flag. It reads, "Your career is here - in the Rhodesian Army"
Template
- in the nav Template:Rhodesian Security Forces of the Bush War, should US be small in brackets after Foreign volunteers?
Late extras
- title=‘Honoured More in the Breach than in the Observance’ - curlies
- dollar|R$]] 3,104 and black Rhodesians R$ 312. - remove spaces
- no more than R$ 1,500 to - remove space
Thanks for your patience! JennyOz ( talk) 05:48, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
- Many thanks for this detailed review Jenny - I'll start working through these comments tomorrow. Nick-D ( talk) 09:22, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
- @ JennyOz: thank you again for this excellent review. I think that I might have now addressed all these comments. Nick-D ( talk) 01:54, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
Support from Gog the Mild
I am going to let Jenny do her thing, then give me a ping and I'll have a look through. Gog the Mild ( talk) 15:46, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- @ Gog the Mild: I think that I've now worked through Jenny's comments. Nick-D ( talk) 01:58, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks Nick. I have been away and come back to a bit of a backlog, but it is on my list. Feel free to nag me.
Gog the Mild (
talk) 13:07, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
- @ Gog the Mild: thanks for this. I'll take you up on the offer of nagging, as I'm departing for a lengthy overseas holiday in a couple of weeks, and am hoping to have this nomination wrapped up one way or the other by then. I'll have a laptop, but my Wikipedia time is likely to be pretty limited. Nick-D ( talk) 10:10, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks Nick. I have been away and come back to a bit of a backlog, but it is on my list. Feel free to nag me.
Gog the Mild (
talk) 13:07, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
- de Boer: could you provide the ISSN (0026-4148) and/or the OCLC (768516153).
- All article titles should be in sentence case. (How they appear in their originals is irrelevant.)
Saving this for the evening. More to follow. Gog the Mild ( talk) 23:22, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
- "from the mid-1970s to address manpower shortages". Consider 'from the mid-1970s until 1980 to address manpower shortages'.
- "As Rhodesia's independence was not internationally recognised and its government and economy were controlled by the small white minority of its population, decisions to volunteer to fight for the country were often motivated by individuals' political views and the issue attracted a degree of controversy." I fail to see how the two parts of this sentence connect. Consider splitting. (It is a bit long anyway.) The part about decisions to volunteer etc seems to be covered in detail in the next paragraph.
- "after seeing advertisements or after being contacted". Remove the second "after"?
- "Southern Rhodesia was a self-governing British colony". Suggest including when it started and ended its existence at this point.
- I've adjusted this para. 00:44, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
- "had little difficulty in defeating the guerrillas." Is "in" necessary?
- "whose members were mainly white." Suggest deleting. This has been established in the previous sentence.
- "The historian Luise White". Should be introduced at first mention.
- "Those who were combat veterans resented being ...". Every single one of them. Sounds improbable. What does the source say?
- "leading to protests." By whom? US citizens, foreign countries, the UN, all of these?
That's all I have. Gog the Mild ( talk) 18:49, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
- Neat. Gog the Mild ( talk) 10:34, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
Coord note
Have I missed a source review? If still wanting, let's list at the top of WT:FAC... Cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 21:35, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
- @
Ian Rose: no, there hasn't been a source review yet
Nick-D (
talk) 10:11, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
- Leave it with me. I'll post one shortly. Peacemaker67 ( click to talk to me) 08:31, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
- @
Ian Rose: this might now be ready to be closed. Willbb234 has maintained their oppose, but I think that I've addressed all their comments and they declined to clarify or expand further. There are four supports, with those editors' comments having touched on Willbb234's concerns, and passes source and image reviews.
Nick-D (
talk) 03:41, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, the numbers are not the biggest thing but how critical comments have been resolved, or attempted to be resolved, and I think we're good to go in that respect. Certainly other reviewers have had plenty of time to consider the opposing comments and have still come down for promotion, and we have a mix of MilHist and non-MilHist participants. Cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 09:52, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
Source review - pass
- there are hyphens in page ranges in footnotes. eg {{sfn|Geldenhuys|1990|pp=59-62, 67}} Should they be endashes?
- all the sources are of high quality and reliable. The Stackpole book is leveled up significantly by the bona fides of the authors, and is completely fine for what it is being used for.
- the formatting of the citations is excellent, and it is well footnoted.
Overall, very good. Pass. Peacemaker67 ( click to talk to me) 08:50, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{ featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose ( talk) 09:53, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.