The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot ( talk) 20 May 2023 [1].

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Cherry Valentine

Nominator(s): Another Believer _{( Talk)} 14:33, 4 April 2023 (UTC) and JuanGLP ( talk + contribs) 14:40, 4 April 2023 (UTC) reply

This article is about an English drag queen and mental health nurse who competed on the second series of RuPaul's Drag Race UK. The article has been edited and reviewed extensively — following the subject's death, the article received well over 100,000 views, appeared in the "In the news" section, was promoted to Good status, and appeared in the "Did you know" section. I think any major issues would have been flagged by the community by now.

I'd like to think the article meets FA criteria and I'd appreciate feedback from reviewers to get this entry promoted. I'm happy to co-nominate this article for consideration with fellow WikiProject Drag Race editor User:JuanGLP. Thanks! -- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 14:33, 4 April 2023 (UTC) reply

Comments by Aoba47

Thank you for addressing everything and for your patience with my review. I support this FAC for promotion based on the prose. Aoba47 ( talk) 16:04, 6 April 2023 (UTC) reply

Thanks for reviewing and supporting. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 16:34, 6 April 2023 (UTC) reply

Thank you! @ Another Believer, is one of the best users on Wikipedia, that is both helpful and kind. 🎉 — JuanGLP ( talk + contribs) 16:47, 6 April 2023 (UTC) reply

I am glad that I could help. If you would like me to collapse my comments, feel free to let me know. I agree about Another Believer. They are one of the first Wikipedia editors (if not the first) I talked to when I first joined this site back in 2016 and they really made me feel welcome and helped me a lot. Aoba47 ( talk) 17:20, 6 April 2023 (UTC) reply

Thank you, both, for your kind words. @ Aoba47: Collapsing would be much appreciated, mostly so I can easily see what still needs to be addressed. Thank you! --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 17:23, 6 April 2023 (UTC) reply

Of course. I have collapsed the comments so reviewers can still look through them if they would like. Aoba47 ( talk) 17:42, 6 April 2023 (UTC) reply

Image review by Nikkimaria

• File:Cherry_Valentine_2020.jpg is missing a fair-use tag and needs a more expansive rationale. Nikkimaria ( talk) 04:17, 5 April 2023 (UTC) reply

@ Nikkimaria Better? Tried my best to fix. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 04:35, 5 April 2023 (UTC) reply

Not there yet unfortunately. Still missing a tag, and the rationale should add who is believed to be the copyright holder, how it (doesn't) compete with the copyright holder's usage, why text is not sufficient, etc. Once you add a tag you can look at other examples of images using it. Nikkimaria ( talk) 04:41, 5 April 2023 (UTC) reply

I'm not really sure what to do here. @ JuanGLP: Are you familiar with fair use image tags and rationales? --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 16:19, 5 April 2023 (UTC) reply

@ Meena: Putting this discussion/request on your radar, as the editor who uploaded the image. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 16:27, 5 April 2023 (UTC) reply

Sorry if I am not allowed to help, but I have added a fair use licensing template. Is it the right one? Spinixster (chat!) 03:02, 18 April 2023 (UTC) reply

@ Spinixster No need to apologize for helping! I'll let others determine if the template is correct since this is not my area of expertise. Thanks for taking a stab at fixing! --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 16:27, 18 April 2023 (UTC) reply

@ Nikkimaria: - is the licensing resolved here? Hog Farm _Talk 17:04, 29 April 2023 (UTC) reply

Not quite - as above, the rationale is missing copyright holder and info on respect for commercial opportunities. Nikkimaria ( talk) 00:53, 30 April 2023 (UTC) reply

I'm not sure how to resolve this issue. Any suggestions for where I can go for help? --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 13:00, 30 April 2023 (UTC) reply

It looks like a publicity shot. Do you know if they had a website or social media feed when they were alive? - SchroCat ( talk) 18:09, 3 May 2023 (UTC) reply

I'm not sure, sorry. I didn't upload the image and I'm at a point where I wish someone could just replace it with one that isn't problematic for whatever reason. I'd hate for this to be the reason for potentially failing FAC. Again, any assistance with the image issue here is much appreciated as this is outside my expertise. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 18:14, 3 May 2023 (UTC) reply

I've run some reverse image searches, and while there are some other copies out there, they are on Twitter etc and don't show copyright information. There are others of her with the same dress/makeup etc which were taken by the BBC (as far as I can see), but it would be guesswork to say that the Beeb were definitely the source of the image. You may be better off uploading a different one which you know the provenance of. Cheers - SchroCat ( talk) 18:23, 3 May 2023 (UTC) reply

I'm not familiar with uploading images of people under fair use, dead or living. @ Nikkimaria: Perhaps a solution here is just to delete the infobox image? Unless there's a fix, I'd rather the article be unillustrated until someone who knows how to correctly add an image does so. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 18:28, 3 May 2023 (UTC) reply

There are a couple of options here which are from the BBC, which may be options. - SchroCat ( talk) 18:26, 3 May 2023 (UTC) reply

If you're not attached to this image, an alternative with clearer provenance would be a good solution. Nikkimaria ( talk) 00:53, 4 May 2023 (UTC) reply

Not sure if this article's promotion is dependent on a new upload or not, but I've nominated File:Cherry Valentine 2020.jpg for deletion. Thanks! --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 19:16, 4 May 2023 (UTC) reply

Update:  Done The image has been deleted. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 18:56, 12 May 2023 (UTC) reply

Comments by ChrisThe Dude

• Lead does seem a little thin. Maybe mention his death?
  • @ ChrisTheDude: I've expanded the lead a bit. Hopefully User:Aoba47 approves, too. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 21:38, 5 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• "George Ward was born on November 30, 1993" - add his place of birth
  • Of course! Done. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 21:25, 5 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• "As his father had done, was expected" => "As his father had done, he was expected"
  • Fixed. Thanks! --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 21:25, 5 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• "at the University of Cumbria where he was introduced to Manchester's drag scene" - this gives the impression that Manchester is in Cumbria, which it isn't. Maybe change to "at the University of Cumbria, during which time he was introduced to Manchester's drag scene"
  • Very helpful! Thanks. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 21:25, 5 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• "his fondness of Valentine's Day" => "his fondness for Valentine's Day
  • Done. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 21:25, 5 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• "Ward returned to work in National Health Service (NHS)" => "Ward returned to work in the National Health Service (NHS)"
  • Done. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 21:25, 5 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• "and RuPaul's DragCon UK announced a" - a convention can't announce anything, presumably it was the convention's organisers? Also add "that" after "announced"
  • Done. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 21:25, 5 April 2023 (UTC) reply

-- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 21:04, 5 April 2023 (UTC) reply

• Support -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 15:01, 6 April 2023 (UTC) reply

  Thank you for reviewing and supporting. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 15:09, 6 April 2023 (UTC) reply

Comments by Pseud 14

• After failing to impress judges with her performance -- perhaps you can include a month and year or indicate that the show had resumed after the pandemic for the beginning of the third para.
  • I've shuffled some content which I hope helps with understanding the chronology. She was eliminated in the second episode. Episode 4 the last filmed before lockdown. Filming resumed later in the year. She made appearances in Episodes 5 and 10. Do these changes help? --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 22:04, 12 April 2023 (UTC) reply
    • That reads much better now after the changes. Thanks for clarifying that. Pseud 14 ( talk) 22:38, 12 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• Cherry Valentine had to lip-sync - the preceding sentence only says she failed to impress the judges in the Rusical, perhaps you can specify that she had to lip sync because she was bottom two or something along those lines, for those unfamiliar about the concept of Drag Race
  • I've added mention of her bottom two placement. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 22:04, 12 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• a documentary show about the tour -- a documentary about the tour (it is already mentioned as a series)
  • Done. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 22:04, 12 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• inquest -- suggest linking
  • Done. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 22:04, 12 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• with donations benefitting "Cherry's legacy fund and mental health charities close to George's heart" -- would it be better if this was paraphrased in straight prose instead of the quotation?
  • Done. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 22:04, 12 April 2023 (UTC) reply

That's all from me. This was a very good read. Pseud 14 ( talk) 21:46, 12 April 2023 (UTC) reply

• @ Pseud 14: Thank you! --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 22:04, 12 April 2023 (UTC) reply
  • I am satisfied with the changes. Happy to support on prose. If you have spare time and interest, I would also appreciate your input/comments on a current FAC. Pseud 14 ( talk) 22:38, 12 April 2023 (UTC) reply

SC

Marker for me. I'll be along shortly. - SchroCat ( talk) 14:56, 18 April 2023 (UTC) reply

• Should “Traveller” be capitalised? (I ask from a position of complete ignorance, and only because I read something on the BBC and they don’t).
  • Great question, but I'm not sure. I was following Romanichal and sources, but I'm totally open to changes as other editors see fit. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 16:51, 20 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• "moniker" is slang, so "stage name" would be better
  • Done. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 16:51, 20 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• Do we need to use "Cherry Valentine" at every mention? “Valentine” should suffice after the first mention
  • There's some inconsistency here across Wikipedia. I'd say, generally, quality articles about queens use the full name throughout since they don't have "true" last names (examples: Bolivia Carmichaels, Flawless Shade, India Ferrah), and because most queens are actually referred to by their "first" name (example: everyone calls Detox Icunt "Detox"; no one would call her "Icunt"). There are some exceptions, depending on the subject's name preferences and what sources do. When I see sources like BBC using "Cherry Valentine" throughout, BBC using "Cherry", and Gay Times using "Cherry", I tend to prefer not to refer to Cherry Valentine as "Valentine". --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 16:51, 20 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• This switches between "he" and "she" at various points, and it's not clarified until a bit later when you say "Ward used he/they pronouns when not in drag". It's a bit off to have his early life description, then career, than back to him growing up, being a T/traveller, coming out and being a drag queen. You should think hard about moving the first two paragraphs of Personal Life into the Early life (which is all those paragraphs deal with). You can go straight from the end of his career to his death
  • I see where you're coming from, but I think I disagree, only because these paragraphs in the Personal life section refer to multiple projects mentioned in the Career section. I think it would be confusing to readers to mention Drag Race and Gypsy Queen and Proud in the Early life and education section. If you feel strongly about moving content, I could try taking a scalpel to the Personal life section and relocating the content which describes his upbringing, but leaving mention how the subject's experience relates to their career. What do you think? --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 17:00, 20 April 2023 (UTC) reply

OK. Let me draft up an idea for you in my sandbox - if you don’t like it, that’s fine and you can go with yours, but it may help. What I would prefer is if the question over their entry to drag and the his/hers pronouns be explained before the pronoun is swapped around in the rest of the article. That would avoid the confusion I initially had while reading. I’ll ping you a copy when I’m done, which will be in the morning. Cheers - SchroCat ( talk) 22:35, 20 April 2023 (UTC) reply

Have a look at this to show my suggestion. The moved around bits are in green, just so they're easier to see where they end up. I've cut out some of the bits that are not needed (when he talked about his early life, we don't need to know who he told - that's not important, what he said is the key bit. Other bits sit quite comfortably in the career section. - SchroCat ( talk) 09:09, 21 April 2023 (UTC) reply

@ SchroCat Very helpful, thank you. I've made these changes, based on your suggested text relocations. However, I think we might disagree about where to place the following two sentences:

• Described as genderfluid and queer, Ward used he/they pronouns when not in drag.
• As part of the LGBT community, Ward hid his Traveller heritage because he feared he might receive "hate or backlash".

I'm not convinced these belong in the Early life and education section. I understand you're trying to address pronouns earlier in the article's prose, but we should not imply the subject made his preferred pronouns known at a young age. What do you think about leaving these two sentences about gender and sexual orientation in the Personal life section? --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 14:40, 21 April 2023 (UTC) reply

• "he said; "Growing" – there's no punctuation needed (except in AmEng) before the quote, but if you want to use something, it shouldn't be a semi-colon.
  • Changed to colon. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 16:56, 20 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• "Tayce, and Tia Kofi" v "Sum Ting Wong and The Vivienne": you should be consistent with the serial comma
  • Added comma. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 16:54, 20 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• "Additionally": delete. It’s another paragraph, so it’s obviously additionally, and the word does no beneficial work, particularly at the beginning of the paragraph.
  • Done. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 16:53, 20 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• "paid tribute to him; these include...": paid as past tense and include as present?
  • Changed "include" to "included". --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 16:53, 20 April 2023 (UTC) reply

That's it. Not much to pick up on, but the stuff in the 'personal life' section sits out of place for me. Cheers – SchroCat ( talk) 16:35, 20 April 2023 (UTC) reply

• “Ward died in Hornsey on 18...”: maybe “in Hornsey, north London on ...”, as there will be many who have no idea about where it is? - SchroCat ( talk) 22:35, 20 April 2023 (UTC) reply

  I've changed to "Ward died in the north London district of Hornsey on...". Hope that works for you! --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 22:55, 20 April 2023 (UTC) reply

• The citations shouldn't have the language field in them (the documentation says only to use them for non-English sources.
  • Done. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 14:23, 21 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• "In the episode, Ward reflected on his 2022 documentary about being raised within the English Traveller community called Cherry Valentine: Gypsy Queen and Proud" This doesn't work properly - you're saying the community is called CVGQ&P. It would be better as "In the episode, Ward reflected on his 2022 Cherry Valentine: Gypsy Queen and Proud documentary about being raised within the English Traveller community" - SchroCat ( talk) 09:09, 21 April 2023 (UTC) reply
  • Done. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 14:23, 21 April 2023 (UTC) reply
• Support. I'm not convinced by having the explanation of the she/he use deep in the article, way after people will have been confused or possibly begun editing it, but there isn't any guideline or policy on when to mention it, so it would be unfair to withhold a support for that single point. Aside from that, I have no concerns on the prose (I've not looked at the sourcing or licensing). Cheers - SchroCat ( talk) 19:07, 25 April 2023 (UTC) reply

  Thanks for reviewing and supporting. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 19:17, 25 April 2023 (UTC) reply

Source review by Jo-Jo Eumerus

Source formatting seems consistent (although Attitude is once linked and the other time not) and all the critical information is there. Are The Tab and Daily Telegraph RS? From what I know, British newspapers have a dodgy reputation. Spot-check upon request. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 09:06, 8 May 2023 (UTC) reply

@ Jo-Jo Eumerus I don't see The Tab at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources. I do, however, see that Daily Telegraph is acceptable. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 14:56, 8 May 2023 (UTC) reply

That The Tab isn't listed there merely means that it hasn't been assessed yet. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 15:19, 8 May 2023 (UTC) reply

I understand, just wanted to confirm that I checked the list re: reliability. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 17:31, 8 May 2023 (UTC) reply

@ Jo-Jo Eumerus Also, the source is just being used to verify the documentary's existence. Plenty of other sources could be used for this and the "claim" is not controversial. If you have a preferred source in mind, please share a link and I'll be happy to replace the citation. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 17:40, 8 May 2023 (UTC) reply

Meh, if it's only for that it can stay. I won't push the issue with Daily Telegraph if nobody else sees a problem. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 08:27, 9 May 2023 (UTC) reply

@ Jo-Jo Eumerus: chipping in here as a Brit to say that "British newspapers have a dodgy reputation" as a generalisation definitely isn't true. Sure, there are some iffy tabloids, as there are in many countries, but the "broadsheet" papers (of which the Telegraph is one) are very highly regarded -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 09:47, 11 May 2023 (UTC) reply

Hrmm. I've seen a fair amount of people living in the UK disagree even on the Telegraph, so I had to ask extra. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 12:09, 11 May 2023 (UTC) reply

Jo-Jo, could I take you up on the offer of a spotcheck, as one half of our nominating team is, I believe, new to FAC? Tks/cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 18:37, 12 May 2023 (UTC) reply

Sure:

• 5: OK.
• 1: It says that Valentine was raised, not born, in Darlington. I presume we are using Darlington's coordinates to say that it's northeast England?
• 6: Where does it say that he was introduced to Manchester's drag scene?
• 3: OK (the newspaper editors ought to note that Huntington's disease is not a "brain injury", though)
• 8: I am not sure I see the bottom two and elimination bits?
• 10: Where does it say that it's the second series and that Valentine became 12th?
• 13: I don't see the NHS and vaccines mentioned in it.
• 16: OK, but I note that the source text is quite similar to the article text ( WP:CLOP), a bit of rewrite may be warranted.
• 11: OK.
• 15: Where does it say that it was the fifth?
  • The article's title is "RuPaul's Drag Race U.K. Recap, Season 2 Episode 5" --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 15:31, 13 May 2023 (UTC) reply
• 18: OK.
• 20: I presume this is mentioned somewhere in the video?
• 40: OK.
• 25: OK, but I notice the same CLOP issue with source 24.
• 35: OK.
• 26: OK.
• 31: Where does it say "hanging"? Also, if his family disowned him after the come-out, it should probably explicitly say so in the article.
• 32: Where does it and 33 say "Bimini Bon-Boulash", "Cheryl Hoyle", "The Vivienne" and "Baga Chipz"? I don't see the Visage quote.
• 37: OK.
• 41: OKish.

Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 08:44, 13 May 2023 (UTC) reply

I am relatively new for this, but I will try to help and find the sources for this nomination.

• 1 - Added citation that mentions C. Valentine was born in Darlington, UK.
• 16 - I did try to re-worded, take a look if it's good.
• 20 - Added citation from an article instead of the video citation.
• 25 - I did remove citation source 24.
• 31 - Added citation from PinkNews stating the cause of death is from hanging.
• 32 - Added citations.

I hope this solves everything. — JuanGLP ( talk + contribs) 02:26, 14 May 2023 (UTC) reply

• 6 - Added citation mentioning about the drag scene.
• 8 (now 10) - It is mentioning about their unused drag names?
• 15 - As @ Another Believer says, it mention's on the article's name.

Currently fixing source 3, 10, and 13. — JuanGLP ( talk + contribs) 02:56, 14 May 2023 (UTC) reply

A citation was added to the Daily Star, which is deprecated. Nikkimaria ( talk) 03:12, 14 May 2023 (UTC) reply

• 13 (now 15) - Added source mentioning about the vaccine rollout.
• 32 (now 36) - Replaced with a better source

Still looking. — JuanGLP ( talk + contribs) 03:25, 14 May 2023 (UTC) reply

So I checked the source review from @ Jo-Jo Eumerus:, and completed the list. The only source I got stuck on is source 10. Not many sources mention C. Valentine placing in 12th place. — JuanGLP ( talk + contribs) 14:51, 15 May 2023 (UTC) reply

I would say this is not a controversial claim, per RuPaul's Drag Race UK (series 2). Also, there are sources which describe Cherry Valentine as the "first eliminated" contestant, and since the article's prose specifically mentions the series had twelve contestants, the subject's placement is implied. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 15:01, 15 May 2023 (UTC) reply

@ Jo-Jo Eumerus: Anything else needed here? --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 16:05, 19 May 2023 (UTC) reply

The text supported to 24 and 16 has to be rewritten; closely paraphrased text doesn't stop being a problem just because the link to the source is gone. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 16:41, 19 May 2023 (UTC) reply

I'm very sorry, but can you clarify specifically what requires fixing? Between your feedback, User:JuanGLP's attempts to fix, and changes to the order of references, I'm a bit confused. Thanks, --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 16:48, 19 May 2023 (UTC) reply

Sorry, I was reviewing this version. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 17:37, 19 May 2023 (UTC) reply

@ Jo-Jo Eumerus Better? Hopefully I'm understanding correctly. --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 17:53, 19 May 2023 (UTC) reply

I think so, yes. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 18:02, 19 May 2023 (UTC) reply

Thanks for confirming! --- Another Believer _{( Talk)} 18:49, 19 May 2023 (UTC) reply

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{ featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Gog the Mild ( talk) 17:34, 20 May 2023 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.