Dr. George William Mackay ( talk| | history| logs| links| watch) ( restore)

I had translated it from zh wikipedia. 偕叡廉But it used to be deleated by speedy delete in A7。But it in Zh wikipedia has references! Please put the article back, thanks.-- Cjackh ( talk) 20:53, 27 February 2016 (UTC) reply

• Overturn speedy deletion. The deleted article noted that he was a Canadian missionary, a son of George Leslie Mackay. The deleted article incorrectly noted in the lead that the subject was born in 1995 but correctly noted in a category that he was born in 1882.

  Here is a source about the subject:

  1. 許俊雅 (2012). 低眉集: 臺灣文學, 翻譯、遊記與書評. Taipei City: 新銳文創. p. 323. ISBN  9866094731. Retrieved 2016-02-28.

     The book notes in the Google snippet:

     (Reverend George William Mackay.1882~1963)承父親遺志,自加拿大籌款建造,1914年借牛津學堂校舍成立,1925年著名建築八角 2 這作品雖以真真實實的時代與生活背景為主加以構成,但終究祇是一篇小說作品。......儘管時代、生活、感情無一不真,但情節上

  Here are the sources listed in the deleted article:

  1. 《淡水學用語辭典》
  2. 《續修淡水鎮志》，未刊本，（淡水區公所，2012）。
  3. 姚聰榮主編《淡江中學校史》，（臺北：臺北縣私立淡江中學，1997）。
  4. 柯設偕《淡水教會史》，（未刊本，1933）。
  5. 張建隆《尋找老淡水》，（臺北：臺北縣立文化中心，1996）。
  6. 淡水基督教長老教會《滬尾江河—淡水教會設教120週年紀念冊》，（臺北：淡水基督教長老教會，民國81年10月）。

  The sources clearly assert notability, so {{ db-a7}} does not apply.

  Cunard ( talk) 00:20, 28 February 2016 (UTC) reply

On what basis do you conclude that the sources assert notability? I do not read Chinese, so the best I could do was copy-paste the references into an automated translation tool. Not surprisingly, the results were so poor as to be essentially worthless. Do you read Chinese? Can you tell us what they say, and in what way they assert notability? -- RoySmith (talk) 12:58, 28 February 2016 (UTC) reply

RoySmith, these books are talked about mackay and his family. And Dr. George William Mackay also be called mackay second. And he living and preaching people like his father. so all at all these books are be notabled, OK?-- Cjackh ( talk) 17:03, 28 February 2016 (UTC) reply

I think that the existence of Chinese sources about a missionary born in Taiwan is enough to assert notability to pass the {{ db-a7}} bar and require community discussion at AfD to delete the article. Cunard ( talk) 19:08, 28 February 2016 (UTC) reply

I have no problem with overturning the A7 and bringing this to AfD. WP:CSD is supposed to be for uncontroversial deletions; once there is discussion about whether it was correct, then almost by definition it wasn't uncontroversial. And, AfD is the right place to debate the quality of the sources, not here. I'm just puzzled by the concept that without even being able to understand the language something is written in, one can claim that it clearly assert[s] notability. -- RoySmith (talk) 20:27, 28 February 2016 (UTC) reply

I don't think there is anything puzzling about it. It is not necessary to know the sources' content. The sources were published in 1933, 1996, 1997, and 2012, which indicate that the subject has had enduring coverage years after his death in 1963. That the subject has been discussed in Chinese print sources published over the span of decades is a clear assertion of notability in regard to {{ db-a7}}. Whether that clear assertion of notability will pan out into actually establishing notability or not would be based on the sources' reliability and depth of coverage of the subject. Cunard ( talk) 21:01, 28 February 2016 (UTC) reply

OK, that's a more useful answer to my question than your first answer :-) -- RoySmith (talk) 22:10, 28 February 2016 (UTC) reply

• Overturn with no prejudice against immediate listing at AFD. It looks like there's enough here that the community needs to review before deciding whether to delete it. Lankiveil ^{( speak to me)} 10:16, 28 February 2016 (UTC). reply
• As per Lankiveill. A7 is for when there is no point in discussing. Undelete and, if stil desired, list at AfD for discussion. -- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 15:15, 28 February 2016 (UTC) reply

Sources exist and indicate notability for this historical figure. Eg http://www.presbyterianarchives.ca/FA5000Mackayfamily.pdf. The A7-ed page was pretty poor and with gross errors, so no shame on the tagger or deleter. -- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 15:22, 28 February 2016 (UTC) reply

Here is a nice discussion of the subject in the Presbyterian Church in Canada Archives source SmokeyJoe linked above:

The Rev. Dr. George William Mackay was born in 1882 in Taiwan. He received his early education in Hong Kong and at St. Andrew’s College, Toronto. He attended the University of Toronto, and completed graduate studies at Clark University in Worcester, Massachusetts. In 1911 he was appointed as a missionary educator to Taiwan by The Presbyterian Church in Canada. In the same year, he married Miss Jean Ross, daughter of the Rev. John Ross and Anna Ross of Brucefield, Ontario. They had five children: Anna, Wm. Leslie (who served in the air force during World War II and was killed on March 13, 1942), John Ross, Isabel, and Margaret. Soon after his arrival in Taiwan, George William was elected as an elder in the Presbyterian Church in Tamsui and for many years was an honorary member of the Taipei Presbytery. A leader in educational work, Dr. Mackay was instrumental in founding the first fully accredited private middle school, Tamkang Middle School, and served two terms as principal. A nearby street was later named after him. He also made a notable contribution in the translation and revision of the Amoy Bible, and organized the first course in the Taiwanese language for missionaries in the north of Taiwan. During World War II, the family left Taiwan and returned to Canada. He and Mrs. Mackay were appointed as missionaries to British Guiana, arriving in early 1943. Dr. Mackay served as Principal of the Berbice High School until august 1946. In 1947, they were able to return to Taiwan. In 1948, Knox College, Toronto conferred upon him the degree of Doctor of Divinity. He retired in 1952, but maintained an interest in the educational and religious work in Taiwan, setting up a Bible study centre in Tamsui, as well as several preaching chapels in the area. He pas sed away on July 20, 1963.

Cunard ( talk) 19:08, 28 February 2016 (UTC) reply

• Permit recreation at George William Mackay. The deletion was fine--keep in mind that page as deleted gave a date of birth of 1995, and used present tense when discussing him. I would have pulled the trigger as well as there's nothing in that article to indicate that this person is notable. If someone wants to write a proper article then that's fine. Mackensen (talk) 13:01, 29 February 2016 (UTC) reply

We need to be careful to distinguish between notable subjects and well written articles, particularly when the author is not a native English speaker. As for the present tense issue, my understanding is that Chinese has a very different way of representing tense than English. So, it should not be surprising to find instances of the wrong tense being used in a translation from Chinese. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:50, 29 February 2016 (UTC) reply

• Permit re-creation I would be very reluctant to speedy an article with an equivalent in another WP for A7. It would normally at least merit a discussion. DGG ( talk ) 02:17, 2 March 2016 (UTC) reply