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The result of the discussion was:Delete.
Timrollpickering 10:44, 8 July 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete - this is 'articles whose name is a cliché', which doesn't work as the article is not about a cliché. Eg
Prince Charming is about a fairy-tale character, not a cliché. There could be an article Prince Charming (cliché) about the phrase but there isn't.
Oculi (
talk) 23:08, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Recipients of the Pour le Mérite for Arts and Sciences
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The result of the discussion was:merge. –
FayenaticLondon 22:31, 18 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Both categories are essentially the same. Pour le Mérite for Arts and Sciences is the civil class of the order.
Grimes2 (
talk) 10:35, 15 May 2018 (UTC)reply
comment from the article The revived civil order of the Pour le Mérite is awarded for achievements in the arts and sciences. Active membership is limited to 40 German citizens, ten each in the fields of humanities, natural science, and medicine and the arts. Honorary membership can be conferred on foreigners, again to the limit of 40. When a vacancy occurs, the remaining members select a new inductee the two categories have 166 & 188 recipients, both larger sized categories, the award is now limited to 40 active members the category should be redefined to active(in the main category) with 4 separate groupings humanities, natural science, medicine, and arts as sub cats. with a possible need for historical category for the earlier period prior to the divisions.
Gnangarra 08:19, 16 May 2018 (UTC)reply
At least something should happen here. I'm neutral between merging as proposed and splitting as alternatively proposed, both are an improvement to the current situation.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:20, 17 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –
FayenaticLondon 21:43, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
merging or splitting: Splitting is complicated and a lot of work. Merging is easily done. The order has around 500 members (dead and alive), this is not to much for a category. I think its better to keep the complete order together and not to split.
Grimes2 (
talk) 13:07, 2 June 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:American Idol judges
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The result of the discussion was:delete. –
FayenaticLondon 22:24, 18 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –
FayenaticLondon 21:42, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bazzi songs
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Nominator's rationale: A physical correction of the category was reverted, but this should be changed based on speedy criteria C2D. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 21:16, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Assumptions
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The result of the discussion was:delete. –
FayenaticLondon 22:17, 18 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:delete per
WP:NONDEF, this is mainly a container category but the topic of each of the subcategories is only vaguely related to "assumptions".
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:12, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Support I think in theory one could create a cat about types of assumption, like axioms, hypotheses, a priori beliefs, etc. But the current cat is a grab bag of vaguely related concepts that makes this cat currently non-defining. --
Mark viking (
talk) 22:56, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom & purely subjective (take misconceptions; not everyone holds those misconceptions nor assumes them as opposed to (il-)logically derived them).
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 19:55, 4 June 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Batman characters
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Nominator's rationale: List(s) appear to be more appropriate than categories per prior CFDs
[1][2], and
discussion at WT:COMIC appears to favor lists over categories in cases like this.
DonIago (
talk) 13:39, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Would you say this should be a straight-up delete instead then?
DonIago (
talk) 14:19, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I am neutral on it. Hence why I just commented. If I had to choose I think it’s a keep if it stays central to Gotham City characters mostly (with the exception of Deathstroke). But one can make that argument with X-Men character being just being mutants/supporting characters/rogues etc.from X-titles and that was deleted.
Jhenderson777 15:03, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Your name reminds me that I am surprised there ain’t a Superman one. Keep in mind that there is a category of the DC/Marvel shared universe superhero/supervillains and of just characters apparently which is a huge enough category.
Jhenderson777 15:14, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Ok there is one. But it's doing things a little bit different than like Spider-Man characters or Batman characters.I don't even see
Lois Lane,
Jimmy Olsen,
Perry White or
Lex Luthor on there. There's got to be some consistency on how these are treated I think.
Jhenderson777 15:21, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment -- We commonly remove these, when most of the articles are merged into a list. In this case there are a lot of articles, so that the existence of a category (exceptionally) seems justified.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 16:38, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Keep - categories are intended to capture defining characteristics of an article.
Ace the Bat-Hound is clearly a Batman character above all else (as are many of the articles). Some should perhaps be purged. (
Category:X-Men characters was merged in
this cfd. No reason why it should not be recreated if there are some articles on actual characters, more than 5 say.)
Oculi (
talk) 20:31, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Keep at least as a container category as this is clearly useful for navigation, holding five sub-categories including
Category:Lists of Batman characters which already contains eleven more specific lists. Disclosure: I re-created this 15 months after deletion per
this 2007 CFD, tagged as a container category for the sub-categories and "alternative version" articles.
User:Slivicon removed the container template three years ago. –
FayenaticLondon 07:23, 1 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete - There's no clear definition for what makes something a "Batman character" over a "
DC Comics character".
Argento Surfer (
talk) 13:36, 1 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Robin, Batgirl, Catwoman, Penguin, Joker, etc, etc, are all clearly "Batman characters". It's certainly a lot better as a category than as a navbox such as {{
Batman characters}}. --
woodensuperman 14:27, 1 June 2018 (UTC)reply
While I'm not arguing about those specific characters, what makes them clearly Batman characters? Is Dick Grayson clearly a Batman character after his time with the Titans? Is Jason Todd clearly a Batman character, since he's been leading the Outlaws since 2012 or so? Superman has appeared in Batman comic books for decades. Is he clearly a Batman character? Where's the demarcation?
Argento Surfer (
talk) 15:43, 1 June 2018 (UTC)reply
If you must have demarcation, then maybe the comics from which a character originated? But I don't think we should be too strict on that, as characters evolve. --
woodensuperman 15:58, 1 June 2018 (UTC)reply
If there's no demarcation, then it's not clearly defined. And if it's about which comic a character originated in, then this category should not include anyone who first appeared in Detective Comics, Legends of the Dark Knight, or any of the various movies or tv shows. That means that Batman himself would not be a Batman character.
Argento Surfer (
talk) 16:53, 1 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Keep, a good category and informative to fans of Batman. And categories and lists are different things, both are needed and some readers look up things on categories, others search for lists, others by templates, etc. Wikipedia is not a "one size fits all" encyclopedia, and correctly provides multiple entrance points to encyclopedic information.
Randy Kryn (
talk) 09:31, 2 June 2018 (UTC)reply
By that standard, wouldn't Batman himself not belong in the category? I mean, I'm open to this idea, but I'm not sure how well that will go over. Also should clarify which "Batman" we're talking about...the comic, presumably?
DonIago (
talk) 03:38, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
I would assume the franchise, following the article's all-inclusiveness.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 17:05, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:James Merendino
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Category:Spencer Stone
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Category:Tara Strong
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Category:Harrison Ford
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Category:Third Wave Coffee roasters of the United States
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The result of the discussion was:Merge.
Timrollpickering 10:45, 8 July 2018 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: This was nominated for speedy renaming, but that was opposed on the grounds that the category is promotional and fails
WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. –
FayenaticLondon 09:23, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Support per
WP:NONDEF, Third Wave is mostly not even mentioned in the articles.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:15, 8 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support - this is promotional categorisation.
Rathfelder (
talk) 13:52, 18 June 2018 (UTC)reply
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Sports events by city in Greece
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The result of the discussion was:Rename.
Timrollpickering 10:46, 8 July 2018 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: For consistency within
Category:Sports competitions by city. All other city categories were renamed to "competitions" per
Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2018_April_28#Category:Sports_events_by_city, except for one that was upmerged. The rationale was "This division between events and competitions does not aid navigation as duplicate content is spread across two trees. Non-competition sports events are so uncommon as not to warrant subdivision at city level." Renaming this last group was not accepted as a Speedy nomination, since the renaming would be inconsistent with the immediate parents (
Category:Sports events in Attica,
Category:Sports events in Central Macedonia and
Category:Sports events in Western Greece), which currently also just hold competitions. The wider sports events tree needs further consideration, since it has a mixture of category names using "sports events" and "sporting events"; but this nomination is just to finish the work on the layer for cities. –
FayenaticLondon 09:12, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment -- We do not need both "events" and "competitions". My preference would be to rename the competitions to events. The preliminary stages of the Football World Cup consists of matches in many places: it is a competition not an event. The finals are an event held in in one country.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 16:35, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Support for consistency and clarity. If anyone thinks "events" would be a better choice then I suggest they do a follow-up nomination including the 200+ categories on sports competitions by city. I also slightly disagree with Peterkingiron's interpretation above as I see any football match or tournament as a class of competition (which itself is a subtype of an event). I believe the purpose of keeping
Category:Sports events separate from
Category:Sports competitions should be to distinguish non-competitive events (such as
Category:Motorcycle rallies or
mass games) from the more numerous competitive ones.
SFB 20:15, 5 June 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Fictional concepts in superhero fiction
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Support A better name and theme is more specific than concept. --
Mark viking (
talk) 22:50, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
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The result of the discussion was:Delete.
Timrollpickering 10:44, 8 July 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete - this is 'articles whose name is a cliché', which doesn't work as the article is not about a cliché. Eg
Prince Charming is about a fairy-tale character, not a cliché. There could be an article Prince Charming (cliché) about the phrase but there isn't.
Oculi (
talk) 23:08, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Recipients of the Pour le Mérite for Arts and Sciences
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was:merge. –
FayenaticLondon 22:31, 18 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Both categories are essentially the same. Pour le Mérite for Arts and Sciences is the civil class of the order.
Grimes2 (
talk) 10:35, 15 May 2018 (UTC)reply
comment from the article The revived civil order of the Pour le Mérite is awarded for achievements in the arts and sciences. Active membership is limited to 40 German citizens, ten each in the fields of humanities, natural science, and medicine and the arts. Honorary membership can be conferred on foreigners, again to the limit of 40. When a vacancy occurs, the remaining members select a new inductee the two categories have 166 & 188 recipients, both larger sized categories, the award is now limited to 40 active members the category should be redefined to active(in the main category) with 4 separate groupings humanities, natural science, medicine, and arts as sub cats. with a possible need for historical category for the earlier period prior to the divisions.
Gnangarra 08:19, 16 May 2018 (UTC)reply
At least something should happen here. I'm neutral between merging as proposed and splitting as alternatively proposed, both are an improvement to the current situation.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:20, 17 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –
FayenaticLondon 21:43, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
merging or splitting: Splitting is complicated and a lot of work. Merging is easily done. The order has around 500 members (dead and alive), this is not to much for a category. I think its better to keep the complete order together and not to split.
Grimes2 (
talk) 13:07, 2 June 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:American Idol judges
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The result of the discussion was:delete. –
FayenaticLondon 22:24, 18 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –
FayenaticLondon 21:42, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bazzi songs
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Nominator's rationale: A physical correction of the category was reverted, but this should be changed based on speedy criteria C2D. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 21:16, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Assumptions
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The result of the discussion was:delete. –
FayenaticLondon 22:17, 18 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:delete per
WP:NONDEF, this is mainly a container category but the topic of each of the subcategories is only vaguely related to "assumptions".
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:12, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Support I think in theory one could create a cat about types of assumption, like axioms, hypotheses, a priori beliefs, etc. But the current cat is a grab bag of vaguely related concepts that makes this cat currently non-defining. --
Mark viking (
talk) 22:56, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom & purely subjective (take misconceptions; not everyone holds those misconceptions nor assumes them as opposed to (il-)logically derived them).
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 19:55, 4 June 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Batman characters
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: List(s) appear to be more appropriate than categories per prior CFDs
[1][2], and
discussion at WT:COMIC appears to favor lists over categories in cases like this.
DonIago (
talk) 13:39, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Would you say this should be a straight-up delete instead then?
DonIago (
talk) 14:19, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I am neutral on it. Hence why I just commented. If I had to choose I think it’s a keep if it stays central to Gotham City characters mostly (with the exception of Deathstroke). But one can make that argument with X-Men character being just being mutants/supporting characters/rogues etc.from X-titles and that was deleted.
Jhenderson777 15:03, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Your name reminds me that I am surprised there ain’t a Superman one. Keep in mind that there is a category of the DC/Marvel shared universe superhero/supervillains and of just characters apparently which is a huge enough category.
Jhenderson777 15:14, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Ok there is one. But it's doing things a little bit different than like Spider-Man characters or Batman characters.I don't even see
Lois Lane,
Jimmy Olsen,
Perry White or
Lex Luthor on there. There's got to be some consistency on how these are treated I think.
Jhenderson777 15:21, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment -- We commonly remove these, when most of the articles are merged into a list. In this case there are a lot of articles, so that the existence of a category (exceptionally) seems justified.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 16:38, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Keep - categories are intended to capture defining characteristics of an article.
Ace the Bat-Hound is clearly a Batman character above all else (as are many of the articles). Some should perhaps be purged. (
Category:X-Men characters was merged in
this cfd. No reason why it should not be recreated if there are some articles on actual characters, more than 5 say.)
Oculi (
talk) 20:31, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Keep at least as a container category as this is clearly useful for navigation, holding five sub-categories including
Category:Lists of Batman characters which already contains eleven more specific lists. Disclosure: I re-created this 15 months after deletion per
this 2007 CFD, tagged as a container category for the sub-categories and "alternative version" articles.
User:Slivicon removed the container template three years ago. –
FayenaticLondon 07:23, 1 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete - There's no clear definition for what makes something a "Batman character" over a "
DC Comics character".
Argento Surfer (
talk) 13:36, 1 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Robin, Batgirl, Catwoman, Penguin, Joker, etc, etc, are all clearly "Batman characters". It's certainly a lot better as a category than as a navbox such as {{
Batman characters}}. --
woodensuperman 14:27, 1 June 2018 (UTC)reply
While I'm not arguing about those specific characters, what makes them clearly Batman characters? Is Dick Grayson clearly a Batman character after his time with the Titans? Is Jason Todd clearly a Batman character, since he's been leading the Outlaws since 2012 or so? Superman has appeared in Batman comic books for decades. Is he clearly a Batman character? Where's the demarcation?
Argento Surfer (
talk) 15:43, 1 June 2018 (UTC)reply
If you must have demarcation, then maybe the comics from which a character originated? But I don't think we should be too strict on that, as characters evolve. --
woodensuperman 15:58, 1 June 2018 (UTC)reply
If there's no demarcation, then it's not clearly defined. And if it's about which comic a character originated in, then this category should not include anyone who first appeared in Detective Comics, Legends of the Dark Knight, or any of the various movies or tv shows. That means that Batman himself would not be a Batman character.
Argento Surfer (
talk) 16:53, 1 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Keep, a good category and informative to fans of Batman. And categories and lists are different things, both are needed and some readers look up things on categories, others search for lists, others by templates, etc. Wikipedia is not a "one size fits all" encyclopedia, and correctly provides multiple entrance points to encyclopedic information.
Randy Kryn (
talk) 09:31, 2 June 2018 (UTC)reply
By that standard, wouldn't Batman himself not belong in the category? I mean, I'm open to this idea, but I'm not sure how well that will go over. Also should clarify which "Batman" we're talking about...the comic, presumably?
DonIago (
talk) 03:38, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
I would assume the franchise, following the article's all-inclusiveness.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 17:05, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:James Merendino
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Category:Spencer Stone
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Category:Tara Strong
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Category:Harrison Ford
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Category:Third Wave Coffee roasters of the United States
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was:Merge.
Timrollpickering 10:45, 8 July 2018 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: This was nominated for speedy renaming, but that was opposed on the grounds that the category is promotional and fails
WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. –
FayenaticLondon 09:23, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Support per
WP:NONDEF, Third Wave is mostly not even mentioned in the articles.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:15, 8 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support - this is promotional categorisation.
Rathfelder (
talk) 13:52, 18 June 2018 (UTC)reply
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Sports events by city in Greece
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The result of the discussion was:Rename.
Timrollpickering 10:46, 8 July 2018 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: For consistency within
Category:Sports competitions by city. All other city categories were renamed to "competitions" per
Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2018_April_28#Category:Sports_events_by_city, except for one that was upmerged. The rationale was "This division between events and competitions does not aid navigation as duplicate content is spread across two trees. Non-competition sports events are so uncommon as not to warrant subdivision at city level." Renaming this last group was not accepted as a Speedy nomination, since the renaming would be inconsistent with the immediate parents (
Category:Sports events in Attica,
Category:Sports events in Central Macedonia and
Category:Sports events in Western Greece), which currently also just hold competitions. The wider sports events tree needs further consideration, since it has a mixture of category names using "sports events" and "sporting events"; but this nomination is just to finish the work on the layer for cities. –
FayenaticLondon 09:12, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment -- We do not need both "events" and "competitions". My preference would be to rename the competitions to events. The preliminary stages of the Football World Cup consists of matches in many places: it is a competition not an event. The finals are an event held in in one country.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 16:35, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Support for consistency and clarity. If anyone thinks "events" would be a better choice then I suggest they do a follow-up nomination including the 200+ categories on sports competitions by city. I also slightly disagree with Peterkingiron's interpretation above as I see any football match or tournament as a class of competition (which itself is a subtype of an event). I believe the purpose of keeping
Category:Sports events separate from
Category:Sports competitions should be to distinguish non-competitive events (such as
Category:Motorcycle rallies or
mass games) from the more numerous competitive ones.
SFB 20:15, 5 June 2018 (UTC)reply
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Category:Fictional concepts in superhero fiction
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Support A better name and theme is more specific than concept. --
Mark viking (
talk) 22:50, 31 May 2018 (UTC)reply
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