The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. 1) The article Latin alphabet is about the alphabet or alphabets used to write the Latin language. 2) The article Latin script is about the Latin script as defined by Unicode and includes letters from the Latin alphabet(s) and other characters. The Latin alphabet belong is one alphabet that uses the Latin script. 3) The category that is named "Latin alphabets" does contain alphabets using the Latin script as defined in (2) and is not restricted to the alphabet or alphabets as defined by (1) "Latin alphabet". If the category is renamed as proposed the name would be consistent with the definitions (1) and (2).
Some categories and articles that use "Latin-script":
Comment This makes very little difference, but "Latin alphabet(s)" is the normal phrasing. (In text, "a Latin alphabet" or "Latin alphabets" is sufficient to indicate that we are not speaking of the
Latin alphabet itself.) The proposer just moved some of these articles, so it's maybe a bit early to see if anyone will object. (Probably not.) If we move this, the hyphen is required, or it would read as calligraphic hands used for Latin. —
kwami (
talk) 00:28, 30 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment Maybe there is not even THE Latin alphabet. The article Latin alphabet itself lists "Archaic Latin alphabet" and "Classical Latin alphabet", which could be regarded as two alphabets to write the Latin language, or short two "Latin alphabets". And here the name is inconsistent with the 2011 created
Category:Latin alphabets. The alphabets in the category are not alphabets that would be listed in the article Latin alphabet like "Archaic Latin alphabet" and "Classical Latin alphabet".
Indiana State (
talk) 00:54, 30 June 2012 (UTC)reply
(edit conflict - I wrote the following before the above response by Kwamikagami) It follows an additional note. I found several red links to
Category:Latin-derived alphabets, a page
User:Kwamikagami deleted: 16:35, 16 August 2011 Kwamikagami (talk | contribs) deleted page Category:Latin-derived alphabets (C1: Empty category). Checking the first alphabet in the list I found that
at 10:55 of that day Kwamikagami switched the category from "Latin-derived alphabets" to "Latin alphabets", that means Kwamikagami worked on emptying the established category, which has been used already in 2004
[1]. I don't see any discussion for this emptying nor deletion. This might also constitute a violation of the CC-BY-SA 3.0 Unported License, since in the creation of the new category Kwamikagami didn't provide a reference to creators of the category.
Indiana State (
talk) 00:31, 30 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment Note that this would not cover the
Classical Latin alphabet, or the "Archaic Latin alphabet" as it is called on the page
Latin alphabet. These are Greek-script derived alphabets. But the category system is mostly along the lines of scripts, thus it is more accurate to call the category "Latin-script alphabets", along the line with the article
Latin-script alphabet.
Indiana State (
talk) 17:42, 30 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment If there is no support for "Latin-script alphabets" then I would support a restore.
Indiana State (
talk) 04:07, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Hamilton Red Wings players
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The result of the discussion was:rename. Noncontroversial disambiguation per speedy C2B and
WP:BURO.
The BushrangerOne ping only 17:58, 2 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename As creator of the former category, I have no objection. In both cases the hockey team is (at least at present)
the primary topic, so renaming the baseball categories with disambiguators is appropriate. -
Dewelar (
talk) 00:02, 30 June 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Moncton Alpines players
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The result of the discussion was:rename. Noncontroversial disambiguation per speedy C2B and
WP:BURO.
The BushrangerOne ping only 17:59, 2 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:The Flaming Lips 2011 Releases
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale:Delete. An unnecessary diffusion of an artist's releases by year. All are already in
Category:The Flaming Lips EPs. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 17:48, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete Even the most prolific of artists don't need albums/EPs by year. Lugnuts (
talk) 18:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Not Delete Both your points are quite valid, naturally; however, 2011 was an especial year for collaborations and miscellaneous works for the Lips. Moreover,
2011 Releases section of The Flaming Lips page is very disorganized and, subsequently, not likely to be taken credibly. And the
Category:The Flaming Lips EPs page, although concise, is rather inconvenient for fans who would have to sift through the master list of EPs looking for individual works by year. Granted, I haven't finished the individuals pages that make up this subcategory yet, but I don't see the harm or confusion in leaving it up, so long as the information is complete and accurate (which, of course, is my intention).
TheMikeBlackSpecial (
talk) 23:31, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
That's not really the point of categorization. If I were a fan (or just a general reader, even), I would expect and be able to find such info at
The Flaming Lips discography. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 00:28, 30 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. I see no reason to start a released by year, by artist series of categories. As pointed out this would be clear from the discography section of an artists article.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 01:57, 6 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:York Football League
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Nominator's rationale: Category effectively empty, only contains the parent article.
Del♉sion23(talk) 16:19, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Merge to
Category:Football clubs in North Yorkshire-- On looking at the article, I wondered whether this ought to contain a list of clubs that are or have eben members, but they appear to be in the target category. The one article in the category would make a main article for the target, though I expect they do not precisely coincide.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 16:52, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
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Water resource management
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The result of the discussion was:no consensus.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 12:02, 30 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom, for clarity and to match the top-level category,
Category:Water resources management. I wonder, though, whether it would not be simpler simply to use '
Water management', which happens to be the title of the main article. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 05:59, 30 June 2012 (UTC)reply
I think the difference is intended to be of management of water in general (e.g., flood control) versus the specific management of water as a resource that can be consumed (or produce something, such as electricity, that can be consumed). Even if that is the case, I'm not sure whether the distinction is worth maintaining. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 07:19, 1 July 2012 (UTC)reply
But where do you draw that line which is totally subjective. Something like the
Hoover Dam was built to control a river. As a result you have impounded water which is used to generate electricity. The lake it creates is used for recreation. The lake is also used as a reservoir and it is also used to feed downstream users water for other uses, generally as a part of the releases for the generation of electricity. But I think this is the point you are making.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 20:01, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose - These categories were recently renamed to the current names on account of
WP:COMMONNAME, as I recall, and that stands. It is water resource management that these are about. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 22:04, 1 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Could you link to the discussion? I've not been able to find it so far. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 21:05, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Thank you for the link. To be honest, I don't think that discussion sets a relevant precedent. Not only was the discussion about another category but no evidence was offered in support of the claim that 'resource' is correct or, conversely, that 'resources' is incorrect. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 04:33, 7 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose - the activity under discussion is water resource management in general, not a list of resources that are managed.
Ephebi (
talk) 07:30, 3 July 2012 (UTC)reply
The plural form of 'resources' does not imply a "list of resources"; instead, it implies that the category concerns the management of water resources and not the management of a water resource. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 21:05, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
See also: Water Resources Management information pages by the
UNESCO,
UN-Water and the
World Bank. Further, the difference does not appear to be an AmEng–BrEng issue, since it's used by both
American and
British university sources. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 23:00, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Keep As has been said by others, what the people are doing is water resource management. It is resource management done in the context of water. You do not generally pluralize water in this context.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 22:08, 28 July 2012 (UTC)reply
[citation needed], please. Your statement is not supported by the sources I've encountered and listed above. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 18:46, 29 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment - I'm more familiar with "water resource management" (singular), but google hits shows both pretty commonly. Does the terminology difference reflect regional differences, any difference in meaning, or is it simply a case of synonymous terms? --
Lquilter (
talk) 15:44, 29 July 2012 (UTC)reply
I don't think that it is a regional issue, since I've encountered the plural form ('resources') in both American and British sources. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 18:46, 29 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Gliding/Olympic categories wrongly named and of limited use
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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The 1936 Olympics included a gliding as a demonstration sport, though no actual contest took place. It is very unlikely that gliding will feature in a future Olympic Games. Gliders are aircraft, the participants are 'glider pilots'. There is already a category for
Category:Glider pilots. I propose the removal of the cats listed below as they are wrongly named and are overcategorised.
Keep per the
WP:SMALLCAT exemption as part of established category trees, Rename to "Olympic glider pilots..."/"Glider pilots at..." format, and {{
trout}} whoever emptied these categories out of process. Also a {{
minnow}} for the non-neutral section heading here. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 18:01, 2 July 2012 (UTC)reply
I should own up to removing the sole article,
Alexandru Papană, from five categories that I have proposed deleting.
JMcC (
talk) 20:53, 2 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Keep all These form part of the bigger scheme of athlete/sports by country/by Olympiad, as per SMALLCAT noted above. Lugnuts (
talk) 06:54, 3 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Indian actor performer-by-performance categories
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Nominator's rationale:Delete. In each case these categories are largely categorizing films that the Indian actor has appeared in. This is
overcategorization of performer by performance. Categories of this type for Hollywood actors have been deleted repeatedly. In the case of the eponymous categories, there is the odd article which is not a film the actor appeared in, but I don't think there's enough in these to justify a category purged of the films.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 08:01, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Listify (if necessary) then delete -- WP does not allow performance by performer categories.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 16:44, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Former members of the Politburo of the Communist Party of Vietnam
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Nominator's rationale:Rename/merge. I suggest merging both of these into a new general category for members since generally we don't categorize politicians by former or current status as members of a body.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 06:27, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Merge/rename both per nominator, to avoid deprecated current/former split. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 13:53, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Merge etc as nom. WE do not allow a current/former split.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 16:45, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:Rename. 1) The article Latin alphabet is about the alphabet or alphabets used to write the Latin language. 2) The article Latin script is about the Latin script as defined by Unicode and includes letters from the Latin alphabet(s) and other characters. The Latin alphabet belong is one alphabet that uses the Latin script. 3) The category that is named "Latin alphabets" does contain alphabets using the Latin script as defined in (2) and is not restricted to the alphabet or alphabets as defined by (1) "Latin alphabet". If the category is renamed as proposed the name would be consistent with the definitions (1) and (2).
Some categories and articles that use "Latin-script":
Comment This makes very little difference, but "Latin alphabet(s)" is the normal phrasing. (In text, "a Latin alphabet" or "Latin alphabets" is sufficient to indicate that we are not speaking of the
Latin alphabet itself.) The proposer just moved some of these articles, so it's maybe a bit early to see if anyone will object. (Probably not.) If we move this, the hyphen is required, or it would read as calligraphic hands used for Latin. —
kwami (
talk) 00:28, 30 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment Maybe there is not even THE Latin alphabet. The article Latin alphabet itself lists "Archaic Latin alphabet" and "Classical Latin alphabet", which could be regarded as two alphabets to write the Latin language, or short two "Latin alphabets". And here the name is inconsistent with the 2011 created
Category:Latin alphabets. The alphabets in the category are not alphabets that would be listed in the article Latin alphabet like "Archaic Latin alphabet" and "Classical Latin alphabet".
Indiana State (
talk) 00:54, 30 June 2012 (UTC)reply
(edit conflict - I wrote the following before the above response by Kwamikagami) It follows an additional note. I found several red links to
Category:Latin-derived alphabets, a page
User:Kwamikagami deleted: 16:35, 16 August 2011 Kwamikagami (talk | contribs) deleted page Category:Latin-derived alphabets (C1: Empty category). Checking the first alphabet in the list I found that
at 10:55 of that day Kwamikagami switched the category from "Latin-derived alphabets" to "Latin alphabets", that means Kwamikagami worked on emptying the established category, which has been used already in 2004
[1]. I don't see any discussion for this emptying nor deletion. This might also constitute a violation of the CC-BY-SA 3.0 Unported License, since in the creation of the new category Kwamikagami didn't provide a reference to creators of the category.
Indiana State (
talk) 00:31, 30 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment Note that this would not cover the
Classical Latin alphabet, or the "Archaic Latin alphabet" as it is called on the page
Latin alphabet. These are Greek-script derived alphabets. But the category system is mostly along the lines of scripts, thus it is more accurate to call the category "Latin-script alphabets", along the line with the article
Latin-script alphabet.
Indiana State (
talk) 17:42, 30 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment If there is no support for "Latin-script alphabets" then I would support a restore.
Indiana State (
talk) 04:07, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Hamilton Red Wings players
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The result of the discussion was:rename. Noncontroversial disambiguation per speedy C2B and
WP:BURO.
The BushrangerOne ping only 17:58, 2 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename As creator of the former category, I have no objection. In both cases the hockey team is (at least at present)
the primary topic, so renaming the baseball categories with disambiguators is appropriate. -
Dewelar (
talk) 00:02, 30 June 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Moncton Alpines players
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The result of the discussion was:rename. Noncontroversial disambiguation per speedy C2B and
WP:BURO.
The BushrangerOne ping only 17:59, 2 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:The Flaming Lips 2011 Releases
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale:Delete. An unnecessary diffusion of an artist's releases by year. All are already in
Category:The Flaming Lips EPs. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 17:48, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete Even the most prolific of artists don't need albums/EPs by year. Lugnuts (
talk) 18:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Not Delete Both your points are quite valid, naturally; however, 2011 was an especial year for collaborations and miscellaneous works for the Lips. Moreover,
2011 Releases section of The Flaming Lips page is very disorganized and, subsequently, not likely to be taken credibly. And the
Category:The Flaming Lips EPs page, although concise, is rather inconvenient for fans who would have to sift through the master list of EPs looking for individual works by year. Granted, I haven't finished the individuals pages that make up this subcategory yet, but I don't see the harm or confusion in leaving it up, so long as the information is complete and accurate (which, of course, is my intention).
TheMikeBlackSpecial (
talk) 23:31, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
That's not really the point of categorization. If I were a fan (or just a general reader, even), I would expect and be able to find such info at
The Flaming Lips discography. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 00:28, 30 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. I see no reason to start a released by year, by artist series of categories. As pointed out this would be clear from the discography section of an artists article.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 01:57, 6 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:York Football League
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Nominator's rationale: Category effectively empty, only contains the parent article.
Del♉sion23(talk) 16:19, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Merge to
Category:Football clubs in North Yorkshire-- On looking at the article, I wondered whether this ought to contain a list of clubs that are or have eben members, but they appear to be in the target category. The one article in the category would make a main article for the target, though I expect they do not precisely coincide.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 16:52, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
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Water resource management
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The result of the discussion was:no consensus.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 12:02, 30 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom, for clarity and to match the top-level category,
Category:Water resources management. I wonder, though, whether it would not be simpler simply to use '
Water management', which happens to be the title of the main article. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 05:59, 30 June 2012 (UTC)reply
I think the difference is intended to be of management of water in general (e.g., flood control) versus the specific management of water as a resource that can be consumed (or produce something, such as electricity, that can be consumed). Even if that is the case, I'm not sure whether the distinction is worth maintaining. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 07:19, 1 July 2012 (UTC)reply
But where do you draw that line which is totally subjective. Something like the
Hoover Dam was built to control a river. As a result you have impounded water which is used to generate electricity. The lake it creates is used for recreation. The lake is also used as a reservoir and it is also used to feed downstream users water for other uses, generally as a part of the releases for the generation of electricity. But I think this is the point you are making.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 20:01, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose - These categories were recently renamed to the current names on account of
WP:COMMONNAME, as I recall, and that stands. It is water resource management that these are about. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 22:04, 1 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Could you link to the discussion? I've not been able to find it so far. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 21:05, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Thank you for the link. To be honest, I don't think that discussion sets a relevant precedent. Not only was the discussion about another category but no evidence was offered in support of the claim that 'resource' is correct or, conversely, that 'resources' is incorrect. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 04:33, 7 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose - the activity under discussion is water resource management in general, not a list of resources that are managed.
Ephebi (
talk) 07:30, 3 July 2012 (UTC)reply
The plural form of 'resources' does not imply a "list of resources"; instead, it implies that the category concerns the management of water resources and not the management of a water resource. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 21:05, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
See also: Water Resources Management information pages by the
UNESCO,
UN-Water and the
World Bank. Further, the difference does not appear to be an AmEng–BrEng issue, since it's used by both
American and
British university sources. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 23:00, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Keep As has been said by others, what the people are doing is water resource management. It is resource management done in the context of water. You do not generally pluralize water in this context.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 22:08, 28 July 2012 (UTC)reply
[citation needed], please. Your statement is not supported by the sources I've encountered and listed above. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 18:46, 29 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment - I'm more familiar with "water resource management" (singular), but google hits shows both pretty commonly. Does the terminology difference reflect regional differences, any difference in meaning, or is it simply a case of synonymous terms? --
Lquilter (
talk) 15:44, 29 July 2012 (UTC)reply
I don't think that it is a regional issue, since I've encountered the plural form ('resources') in both American and British sources. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 18:46, 29 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Gliding/Olympic categories wrongly named and of limited use
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The 1936 Olympics included a gliding as a demonstration sport, though no actual contest took place. It is very unlikely that gliding will feature in a future Olympic Games. Gliders are aircraft, the participants are 'glider pilots'. There is already a category for
Category:Glider pilots. I propose the removal of the cats listed below as they are wrongly named and are overcategorised.
Keep per the
WP:SMALLCAT exemption as part of established category trees, Rename to "Olympic glider pilots..."/"Glider pilots at..." format, and {{
trout}} whoever emptied these categories out of process. Also a {{
minnow}} for the non-neutral section heading here. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 18:01, 2 July 2012 (UTC)reply
I should own up to removing the sole article,
Alexandru Papană, from five categories that I have proposed deleting.
JMcC (
talk) 20:53, 2 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Keep all These form part of the bigger scheme of athlete/sports by country/by Olympiad, as per SMALLCAT noted above. Lugnuts (
talk) 06:54, 3 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Indian actor performer-by-performance categories
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talk page or in a
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Nominator's rationale:Delete. In each case these categories are largely categorizing films that the Indian actor has appeared in. This is
overcategorization of performer by performance. Categories of this type for Hollywood actors have been deleted repeatedly. In the case of the eponymous categories, there is the odd article which is not a film the actor appeared in, but I don't think there's enough in these to justify a category purged of the films.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 08:01, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Listify (if necessary) then delete -- WP does not allow performance by performer categories.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 16:44, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Former members of the Politburo of the Communist Party of Vietnam
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talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:Rename/merge. I suggest merging both of these into a new general category for members since generally we don't categorize politicians by former or current status as members of a body.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 06:27, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Merge/rename both per nominator, to avoid deprecated current/former split. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 13:53, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
Merge etc as nom. WE do not allow a current/former split.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 16:45, 29 June 2012 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.