The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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The result of the discussion was:delete. I've made sure all articles are somewhere in the "Irish art critics/collectors/etc." tree, except I could not find obvious places for
William Dargan and
Bryan Guinness, 2nd Baron Moyne, whose role seems to be to set up art exhibits and institutions. Anyone else can feel free to put those articles in appropriate categories.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 21:01, 29 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete/merge elsewhere as needed. This is a one-of-a-kind category and does not seem like a very useful one; there is no
Irish art world or
Category:Irish art world. It seems like this was only created because someone thought certain articles were related to
Category:Irish art or art in Ireland, and more specific categories such as
Category:Irish art critics did not yet exist. It has since failed to be expanded into a system of "art world figures by nationality".
The included articles are already in (or can be added to) more precise categories, such as
Category:Irish art critics or
Category:Irish art collectors. Of the three included categories, two are kinds of artist and so are already in
Category:Irish artists, and
Category:Irish curators can either go directly in
Category:Irish art...or not in that structure at all, as not all curators are curators of art. A further strike against the category is that the phrase "Irish art world" obviously implies a geographically-based network of cultural institutions and individuals (again, undefined by a parent article or category), while in reality the categories such as
Category:Irish painters are purely concerned with the nationality of the subject and not with whether they participated in a coherent "art world." postdlf (talk) 22:52, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Note a
previous discussion that resulted in a rename and as the closer, I suggested a separate discussion on the need for the category. The old category was apparently created in 2005.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 23:02, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Distribute contents to sub-cats as far as possible then merge to
Category:Irish art. On checking the contents, I found a couple of art critics (possible new small sub-cat); two gallery founders; a couple of painters; two or three collectors/owners/donors of art; and one person whose inclusion was not supported by the article text.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 23:17, 23 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:United States Army aircraft
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The result of the discussion was:Delete.
Timrollpickering (
talk) 21:32, 28 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete. A categorise by user category not normally accepted on aircraft articles.
MilborneOne (
talk) 20:54, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete - "By user" is rarely defining and leads to Thirty Cat Pileups like the disgusting mess at the bottom of
AIM-120 AMRAAM. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 21:13, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete -- I do not see a difference from a "military aircraft" category, which I expect we have already.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 23:05, 23 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:United States Coast Guard aircraft
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The result of the discussion was:Delete.
Timrollpickering (
talk) 21:32, 28 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete. Categorises aircraft by users is not that helpful and similar categories have been brought to this forum and deleted. Certain aircraft types could have sixty or seventy user categories if these categorise by user cats were allowed.
MilborneOne (
talk) 20:52, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete - same as in the nom above. By-user cats lead to messy categorisation by non-defining criterion. Aircraft, missiles, weapons, etc. should have their users listed, either in the article itself or in a spinoff List of... article, but not categorised by-user. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 21:17, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete -- I doubt these differ significantly from other aircraft.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 23:06, 23 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Users love Meg Ryan
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The result of the discussion was:Delete.
Timrollpickering (
talk) 21:33, 28 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete. I don't believe category space is used in this manner. I could not find any other example of such.
Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (
talk) 17:38, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete per
extensive precedent against keeping such categories, not to mention the improper grammar.
VegaDark (
talk) 22:04, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
delete per precedent.--
Lenticel(
talk) 13:44, 26 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Britain's lost houses
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"Country houses" are rather large houses in the country. They usually belonged to people of a certain social status, but it's a description of the house not the owner.
Cusop Dingle (
talk) 17:23, 28 December 2011 (UTC)reply
I take your point, but as an academic I would be happy to use 'lost country house' because it has become part of the cultural language related to country house studies, and precisely because it is an emotive term that reflects the sense of a vanished heritage that cannot be recovered. 'Lost' country houses aren't just former buildings, they are seen almost as destroyed artworks. This idea gathered momentum with the famous exhibition in London in the 1970s,
The Destruction of the Country House.
CircleOfWillis (
talk) 17:29, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Comment. Former does not work in this context. Former would change the category to include houses that have survived but been converted into hotels, conference centres, et al. Quite different. Lost is a far more accurate term.
Ephebi (
talk) 23:16, 23 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Comment. Lost means we don't know where it is -- this would be rather unusual. Better would be demolished (for buildings no longer in existence), former or converted (for buildings still in existence but now being used for something else), ruined (for ruins).
Cusop Dingle (
talk) 17:22, 28 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Computer Assisted Auditing Techniques
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Nominator's rationale:Rename.
WP:MOSCAPS indicates lower case should be used.
WP:HYPHEN and external style guides say to hyphenate. Tony(talk) 10:58, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
This discussion isn't listed on the category page. Caps and hyphen are OK per speedy criterion C2A. Support alt renameCategory:Computer-aided audit tools per main article. –
Pnm (
talk) 23:30, 22 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Nineties Glasgow-scene groups
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale:Delete. By-decade groups categories, such as
Category:1990s music groups, were deleted in a previous CfD six months ago. This category intersects a specific set of groups by location and time, but there is a no article on any type of Glasgow music scene. There is a section in
Glasgow#Music scene that states the rise in popularity of bands from Glasgow in the 1990s prompted "Time Magazine to liken Glasgow to Detroit during its 1960s Motown heyday", but then again there are no categories for "Sixties Motown groups" or anything similar.
Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (
talk) 09:41, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Snow by location
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Nominator's rationale: This category was emptied and tagged for C1 by another user. I have restored the articles to it, and nominated it for CFD as a procedural nomination for deletion. I am neutral on whether or not it should be kept.
The BushrangerOne ping only 06:11, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete -- Apart from snow patches in Scotland, this appears to be about snow in places where it is unexpected. The present contents may obviously belong, but at the borderline in/exclusion will be POV, which we cannot allow.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 14:56, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Nonexistent people
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: This category seems too broad and too vague. Pretty much every item in this category is a hoax, a joke, a legend or a pseudonym. The pages in this category should be in more specific categories than this
D O N D E groovilyTalk to me 03:55, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
It could be preserved as a overall category but the articles could be moved to more specific categories -
Skysmith (
talk) 11:26, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep but narrow and purge -- but I do not think any pseudonym (such as nom-de-plume) ought to be in it. I was hearing on the radio about a film producer's name which was actually a dumping ground for films which the real producer did not want to acknowledge: that seems an appropriate case for inclusion. I am also not sure about legendary people, who may (or may not) result from a gfenuine person.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 14:52, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep: The description of the category denotes a significant difference from the category: Fictional people. It is different from pseudonyms, as pseudonyms refer to existing people. However, the category should be policed to ensure that someone notable actually claimed that the person existed. --
AEMoreira042281 (
talk) 00:51, 25 December 2011 (UTC)reply
One exception for the pseudonym, I'd say, would be a single pseudonym for a group of people. In this case, the group is asserting that a single person does exist.
D O N D E groovilyTalk to me 01:59, 26 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep: This does seem to be a useful category, even if primarily a supercategory for more narrow categories; as people have pointed out, it differs significantly from Fictional People and Pseudonyms.
Gabrielbodard (
talk) 11:04, 26 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep: probably mainly as a supercategory, but no reason to suppose that at any given time there would not be articles that live directly at this level.
Cusop Dingle (
talk) 22:02, 26 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep as above. Also note that the parent category,
Category:People whose existence is disputed seems inappropriate. This category should be for people who are indisputably nonexistent, so it's not a subset of people whose existence is disputed.
Pburka (
talk) 23:47, 26 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Comment Pseudonyms are an interesting case. A simple nom de plume is not an imaginary person, but an entire invented persona such as
JT LeRoy would be. There is also the case of group pseudonyms or house names.
Cusop Dingle (
talk) 10:25, 27 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Hand grenades
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was:withdrawn.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 10:24, 25 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: The entire "Hand grenades" tree, consisting of these three categories, has only three articles in total in it. I'm not sure we need to distinguish "grenades" from "hand grenades" at the category level, but I'm open to arguments otherwise.
The BushrangerOne ping only 00:38, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep - There are plenty of U.S. hand grenades. Grenades projectiles and hand grenades are like apples and oranges.
MarcusQwertyus 01:04, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
keep Populating has started and can be continued by anyone, including the nominator. Poulating is much more useful WP work than looking around to delete things.
Hmains (
talk) 04:21, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Except when the nominator doesn't believe that hand grenades need to be categorised seperately from regular grenades. But I have no problem with consensus being otherwise. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 05:14, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Per the apparent consensus that this is a valid category tree, and the fine work at populating these previously-abandoned categories, I'm happy to Withdraw this set of nominations. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 21:18, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Third Reich last ditch weapons
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: As it stands, this is a nebulously- and somewhat subjectively-scoped category. The proposed change would tighten the scope, producing a more closely-related grouping on an encyclopedic topic, as opposed to being a grab-bag.
The BushrangerOne ping only 00:32, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Support per nom, and resort/recat per Peterkingiron.
70.24.244.248 (
talk) 05:06, 22 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Upmerge per Peterkingiron. "last ditch" is kind of vague.--
Lenticel(
talk) 05:07, 25 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete. I've made sure all articles are somewhere in the "Irish art critics/collectors/etc." tree, except I could not find obvious places for
William Dargan and
Bryan Guinness, 2nd Baron Moyne, whose role seems to be to set up art exhibits and institutions. Anyone else can feel free to put those articles in appropriate categories.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 21:01, 29 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete/merge elsewhere as needed. This is a one-of-a-kind category and does not seem like a very useful one; there is no
Irish art world or
Category:Irish art world. It seems like this was only created because someone thought certain articles were related to
Category:Irish art or art in Ireland, and more specific categories such as
Category:Irish art critics did not yet exist. It has since failed to be expanded into a system of "art world figures by nationality".
The included articles are already in (or can be added to) more precise categories, such as
Category:Irish art critics or
Category:Irish art collectors. Of the three included categories, two are kinds of artist and so are already in
Category:Irish artists, and
Category:Irish curators can either go directly in
Category:Irish art...or not in that structure at all, as not all curators are curators of art. A further strike against the category is that the phrase "Irish art world" obviously implies a geographically-based network of cultural institutions and individuals (again, undefined by a parent article or category), while in reality the categories such as
Category:Irish painters are purely concerned with the nationality of the subject and not with whether they participated in a coherent "art world." postdlf (talk) 22:52, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Note a
previous discussion that resulted in a rename and as the closer, I suggested a separate discussion on the need for the category. The old category was apparently created in 2005.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 23:02, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Distribute contents to sub-cats as far as possible then merge to
Category:Irish art. On checking the contents, I found a couple of art critics (possible new small sub-cat); two gallery founders; a couple of painters; two or three collectors/owners/donors of art; and one person whose inclusion was not supported by the article text.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 23:17, 23 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:United States Army aircraft
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The result of the discussion was:Delete.
Timrollpickering (
talk) 21:32, 28 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete. A categorise by user category not normally accepted on aircraft articles.
MilborneOne (
talk) 20:54, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete - "By user" is rarely defining and leads to Thirty Cat Pileups like the disgusting mess at the bottom of
AIM-120 AMRAAM. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 21:13, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete -- I do not see a difference from a "military aircraft" category, which I expect we have already.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 23:05, 23 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:United States Coast Guard aircraft
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The result of the discussion was:Delete.
Timrollpickering (
talk) 21:32, 28 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete. Categorises aircraft by users is not that helpful and similar categories have been brought to this forum and deleted. Certain aircraft types could have sixty or seventy user categories if these categorise by user cats were allowed.
MilborneOne (
talk) 20:52, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete - same as in the nom above. By-user cats lead to messy categorisation by non-defining criterion. Aircraft, missiles, weapons, etc. should have their users listed, either in the article itself or in a spinoff List of... article, but not categorised by-user. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 21:17, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete -- I doubt these differ significantly from other aircraft.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 23:06, 23 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Users love Meg Ryan
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was:Delete.
Timrollpickering (
talk) 21:33, 28 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete. I don't believe category space is used in this manner. I could not find any other example of such.
Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (
talk) 17:38, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete per
extensive precedent against keeping such categories, not to mention the improper grammar.
VegaDark (
talk) 22:04, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
delete per precedent.--
Lenticel(
talk) 13:44, 26 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Britain's lost houses
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"Country houses" are rather large houses in the country. They usually belonged to people of a certain social status, but it's a description of the house not the owner.
Cusop Dingle (
talk) 17:23, 28 December 2011 (UTC)reply
I take your point, but as an academic I would be happy to use 'lost country house' because it has become part of the cultural language related to country house studies, and precisely because it is an emotive term that reflects the sense of a vanished heritage that cannot be recovered. 'Lost' country houses aren't just former buildings, they are seen almost as destroyed artworks. This idea gathered momentum with the famous exhibition in London in the 1970s,
The Destruction of the Country House.
CircleOfWillis (
talk) 17:29, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Comment. Former does not work in this context. Former would change the category to include houses that have survived but been converted into hotels, conference centres, et al. Quite different. Lost is a far more accurate term.
Ephebi (
talk) 23:16, 23 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Comment. Lost means we don't know where it is -- this would be rather unusual. Better would be demolished (for buildings no longer in existence), former or converted (for buildings still in existence but now being used for something else), ruined (for ruins).
Cusop Dingle (
talk) 17:22, 28 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Computer Assisted Auditing Techniques
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:Rename.
WP:MOSCAPS indicates lower case should be used.
WP:HYPHEN and external style guides say to hyphenate. Tony(talk) 10:58, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
This discussion isn't listed on the category page. Caps and hyphen are OK per speedy criterion C2A. Support alt renameCategory:Computer-aided audit tools per main article. –
Pnm (
talk) 23:30, 22 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Nineties Glasgow-scene groups
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale:Delete. By-decade groups categories, such as
Category:1990s music groups, were deleted in a previous CfD six months ago. This category intersects a specific set of groups by location and time, but there is a no article on any type of Glasgow music scene. There is a section in
Glasgow#Music scene that states the rise in popularity of bands from Glasgow in the 1990s prompted "Time Magazine to liken Glasgow to Detroit during its 1960s Motown heyday", but then again there are no categories for "Sixties Motown groups" or anything similar.
Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (
talk) 09:41, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Snow by location
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: This category was emptied and tagged for C1 by another user. I have restored the articles to it, and nominated it for CFD as a procedural nomination for deletion. I am neutral on whether or not it should be kept.
The BushrangerOne ping only 06:11, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete -- Apart from snow patches in Scotland, this appears to be about snow in places where it is unexpected. The present contents may obviously belong, but at the borderline in/exclusion will be POV, which we cannot allow.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 14:56, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Nonexistent people
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: This category seems too broad and too vague. Pretty much every item in this category is a hoax, a joke, a legend or a pseudonym. The pages in this category should be in more specific categories than this
D O N D E groovilyTalk to me 03:55, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
It could be preserved as a overall category but the articles could be moved to more specific categories -
Skysmith (
talk) 11:26, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep but narrow and purge -- but I do not think any pseudonym (such as nom-de-plume) ought to be in it. I was hearing on the radio about a film producer's name which was actually a dumping ground for films which the real producer did not want to acknowledge: that seems an appropriate case for inclusion. I am also not sure about legendary people, who may (or may not) result from a gfenuine person.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 14:52, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep: The description of the category denotes a significant difference from the category: Fictional people. It is different from pseudonyms, as pseudonyms refer to existing people. However, the category should be policed to ensure that someone notable actually claimed that the person existed. --
AEMoreira042281 (
talk) 00:51, 25 December 2011 (UTC)reply
One exception for the pseudonym, I'd say, would be a single pseudonym for a group of people. In this case, the group is asserting that a single person does exist.
D O N D E groovilyTalk to me 01:59, 26 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep: This does seem to be a useful category, even if primarily a supercategory for more narrow categories; as people have pointed out, it differs significantly from Fictional People and Pseudonyms.
Gabrielbodard (
talk) 11:04, 26 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep: probably mainly as a supercategory, but no reason to suppose that at any given time there would not be articles that live directly at this level.
Cusop Dingle (
talk) 22:02, 26 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep as above. Also note that the parent category,
Category:People whose existence is disputed seems inappropriate. This category should be for people who are indisputably nonexistent, so it's not a subset of people whose existence is disputed.
Pburka (
talk) 23:47, 26 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Comment Pseudonyms are an interesting case. A simple nom de plume is not an imaginary person, but an entire invented persona such as
JT LeRoy would be. There is also the case of group pseudonyms or house names.
Cusop Dingle (
talk) 10:25, 27 December 2011 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Hand grenades
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:withdrawn.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 10:24, 25 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: The entire "Hand grenades" tree, consisting of these three categories, has only three articles in total in it. I'm not sure we need to distinguish "grenades" from "hand grenades" at the category level, but I'm open to arguments otherwise.
The BushrangerOne ping only 00:38, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Keep - There are plenty of U.S. hand grenades. Grenades projectiles and hand grenades are like apples and oranges.
MarcusQwertyus 01:04, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
keep Populating has started and can be continued by anyone, including the nominator. Poulating is much more useful WP work than looking around to delete things.
Hmains (
talk) 04:21, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Except when the nominator doesn't believe that hand grenades need to be categorised seperately from regular grenades. But I have no problem with consensus being otherwise. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 05:14, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Per the apparent consensus that this is a valid category tree, and the fine work at populating these previously-abandoned categories, I'm happy to Withdraw this set of nominations. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 21:18, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Third Reich last ditch weapons
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: As it stands, this is a nebulously- and somewhat subjectively-scoped category. The proposed change would tighten the scope, producing a more closely-related grouping on an encyclopedic topic, as opposed to being a grab-bag.
The BushrangerOne ping only 00:32, 21 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Support per nom, and resort/recat per Peterkingiron.
70.24.244.248 (
talk) 05:06, 22 December 2011 (UTC)reply
Upmerge per Peterkingiron. "last ditch" is kind of vague.--
Lenticel(
talk) 05:07, 25 December 2011 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.