- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Sandstein 08:11, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
List of wineries in Quebec
- List of wineries in Quebec ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Per WP:NOTADIRECTORY Jay Jay What did I do? 17:56, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
- Keep - there are similar lists including List of wineries in Western Australia. I think the issue is the number of redlinks - perhaps change this list to focus on all wineries in Canada? Gbawden ( talk) 11:42, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- If someone can find all the wineries in Canada, ones that actually have articles I would be in favor of Re-targeting Jay Jay What did I do? 17:19, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- Category:Wineries of Canada might be a good place to look. And it looks like one list might be sufficient for all Canadian winery articles. postdlf ( talk) 19:09, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Quebec-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 19:00, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 19:00, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Wine-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 19:00, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 19:01, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Keep and improve- people inexperienced with Wikipedia will not be looking at categories. A lot of Quebec cuisine and agrotourism-related articles are pretty sparse both here and on fr.wiki, despite it being a rapidly-growing industry. It could use a cross-link to Quebec wine and {{ Canadian cuisine}}. I wonder if "vignoble" shouldn't be translated to "winery," as well. There are also some wineries missing from the list; it should be cross-checked with this list. - Sweet Nightmares 18:29, 10 August 2014 (UTC)- The category was identified to point out where we should look for what articles we have on Canadian wineries to get a sense of how large of a list we need. There is no
Category:Wineries in Quebec, and apparently the only article we have on a winery in Quebec is
Vignoble Carone. So unless you can give a good reason why we should list non-notable wineries (i.e., those that do not merit their own articles) when we normally do not do that for companies of any kind, there is no basis for maintaining a separate list just for Quebec wineries rather than one list for the whole country.
postdlf (
talk) 18:58, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
- I see what your argument is, but I'm still leaning towards soft keep. When this list was prodded in 2008, someone left a pretty useful comment here. I agree that probably only Morou, Cep d'Argent, and l'Orpailleur need articles, but not every single element on a list needs to have a blue link. As I said, improvement of Quebec-related articles, especially ones about food, is an ongoing goal for WP:QC. Regarding what is "normal," we do have List of breweries in Quebec; should it be scrapped also? How about List of wineries in Missouri, List of wineries in Ohio, and all the other wine-related lists? With that being said, it's true that this leaves the opportunity for "shilling," and users can use Google or the Route des Vins website to find out about Quebec wineries. Had this been a request to merge the article elsewhere, I might have agreed. - Sweet Nightmares 19:45, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
- The category was identified to point out where we should look for what articles we have on Canadian wineries to get a sense of how large of a list we need. There is no
Category:Wineries in Quebec, and apparently the only article we have on a winery in Quebec is
Vignoble Carone. So unless you can give a good reason why we should list non-notable wineries (i.e., those that do not merit their own articles) when we normally do not do that for companies of any kind, there is no basis for maintaining a separate list just for Quebec wineries rather than one list for the whole country.
postdlf (
talk) 18:58, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
- Delete. I am not convinced by SweetNightmares' WP:OTHERSTUFF argument. There might be an argument for creating a list article that mirrors the category of Candadian wineries, provided it provides useful information beyond a mere a regurgitation of the category contents. But that isn't what we're discussing. Rather, we should be discussing how this particular article complies with WP:NOTDIR and WP:INDISCRIMINATE. There is no purpose in listing non-notable companies, other than to attract spamlinks. ~ Amatulić ( talk) 14:59, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
- Could you please explain your reasoning that it's going to attract "spam links" and why you think this will be a problem? Regarding the policies you listed: WP:NOTDIR is for things like listing addresses, phone numbers, prices, etc., none of which is being done on this article. In applying it so loosely, you could easily dismiss virtually every other list of locations ever made on Wikipedia. About WP:INDISCRIMINATE: that policy is there to prevent people from inserting long and useless data where doing so would be inappropriate. Is this list inappropriately-placed long and useless data? Absolutely not.
- At the most, this article should be remade into a category or merged into
Quebec wine. What I really think should be done is a merger into
List of Wineries in Canada with the inclusion of other wineries across the country. -
Sweet
Nightmares 20:25, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- SweetNightmares, regarding your first paragraph in your response above, in my long experience here I have seen cases where lists of redlinks attract external links, often enough that I view such lists as something to be nipped in the bud. That's where WP:NOTDIR comes in. As to your second paragraph, I have no disagreement with deleting this article in favor of a category, or merging material into a larger list of Canadian wines. ~ Amatulić ( talk) 16:27, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
- The SPAM problem with lists of this type is that editors (usually people with a direct conflict of interest, such as the company's own marketing director) often try to replace the redlinks (and sometimes even bluelinks too) with direct offsite links to their own corporate websites. Bearcat ( talk) 22:43, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica 1000 21:46, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica 1000 01:38, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. 23:40, 21 August 2014 (UTC)-- 180.172.239.231 ( talk) 23:40, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
The primary purpose of a list of anything, on Wikipedia, is not to be a comprehensive directory of all things that exist within the parameters of the list regardless of whether they have Wikipedia articles or not, but specifically to help people find Wikipedia articles. I'm sure this was a good faith creation at the time, but if six years later there's still only one blue link in the entire list, then it's not really serving a particularly useful purpose at the present time — and if even SweetNightmares thinks that only two or three of the redlinks really have much potential of turning blue, then that's still not a terribly strong vote of confidence that it can become more useful than it is. Delete; no prejudice against recreation in the future if we ever have a reasonable number of articles about wineries in Quebec for it to link to. I wouldn't object to merging it into a Canada-wide list as proposed above, but the category reveals that we don't have a particularly large number of articles about wineries elsewhere in Canada either — so I'm not entirely convinced that a Canada-wide list would really be all that helpful, rather than just a reduplication of Category:Wineries in Canada, either. Bearcat ( talk) 22:35, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
- Delete: Five years ago, I voted differently at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of wineries and vineyards in Maine (November 2009), which is worth looking at. After five years, I think the delete voters like Agne there were probably right. These are not really useful lists to our project, they are directories. In any event, a list with one blue link is not a viable list, and its not a list of notable items, as most items on this list will not be notable.-- Milowent • has spoken 05:02, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Sandstein 08:11, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
List of wineries in Quebec
- List of wineries in Quebec ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Per WP:NOTADIRECTORY Jay Jay What did I do? 17:56, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
- Keep - there are similar lists including List of wineries in Western Australia. I think the issue is the number of redlinks - perhaps change this list to focus on all wineries in Canada? Gbawden ( talk) 11:42, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- If someone can find all the wineries in Canada, ones that actually have articles I would be in favor of Re-targeting Jay Jay What did I do? 17:19, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- Category:Wineries of Canada might be a good place to look. And it looks like one list might be sufficient for all Canadian winery articles. postdlf ( talk) 19:09, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Quebec-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 19:00, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 19:00, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Wine-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 19:00, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 19:01, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Keep and improve- people inexperienced with Wikipedia will not be looking at categories. A lot of Quebec cuisine and agrotourism-related articles are pretty sparse both here and on fr.wiki, despite it being a rapidly-growing industry. It could use a cross-link to Quebec wine and {{ Canadian cuisine}}. I wonder if "vignoble" shouldn't be translated to "winery," as well. There are also some wineries missing from the list; it should be cross-checked with this list. - Sweet Nightmares 18:29, 10 August 2014 (UTC)- The category was identified to point out where we should look for what articles we have on Canadian wineries to get a sense of how large of a list we need. There is no
Category:Wineries in Quebec, and apparently the only article we have on a winery in Quebec is
Vignoble Carone. So unless you can give a good reason why we should list non-notable wineries (i.e., those that do not merit their own articles) when we normally do not do that for companies of any kind, there is no basis for maintaining a separate list just for Quebec wineries rather than one list for the whole country.
postdlf (
talk) 18:58, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
- I see what your argument is, but I'm still leaning towards soft keep. When this list was prodded in 2008, someone left a pretty useful comment here. I agree that probably only Morou, Cep d'Argent, and l'Orpailleur need articles, but not every single element on a list needs to have a blue link. As I said, improvement of Quebec-related articles, especially ones about food, is an ongoing goal for WP:QC. Regarding what is "normal," we do have List of breweries in Quebec; should it be scrapped also? How about List of wineries in Missouri, List of wineries in Ohio, and all the other wine-related lists? With that being said, it's true that this leaves the opportunity for "shilling," and users can use Google or the Route des Vins website to find out about Quebec wineries. Had this been a request to merge the article elsewhere, I might have agreed. - Sweet Nightmares 19:45, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
- The category was identified to point out where we should look for what articles we have on Canadian wineries to get a sense of how large of a list we need. There is no
Category:Wineries in Quebec, and apparently the only article we have on a winery in Quebec is
Vignoble Carone. So unless you can give a good reason why we should list non-notable wineries (i.e., those that do not merit their own articles) when we normally do not do that for companies of any kind, there is no basis for maintaining a separate list just for Quebec wineries rather than one list for the whole country.
postdlf (
talk) 18:58, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
- Delete. I am not convinced by SweetNightmares' WP:OTHERSTUFF argument. There might be an argument for creating a list article that mirrors the category of Candadian wineries, provided it provides useful information beyond a mere a regurgitation of the category contents. But that isn't what we're discussing. Rather, we should be discussing how this particular article complies with WP:NOTDIR and WP:INDISCRIMINATE. There is no purpose in listing non-notable companies, other than to attract spamlinks. ~ Amatulić ( talk) 14:59, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
- Could you please explain your reasoning that it's going to attract "spam links" and why you think this will be a problem? Regarding the policies you listed: WP:NOTDIR is for things like listing addresses, phone numbers, prices, etc., none of which is being done on this article. In applying it so loosely, you could easily dismiss virtually every other list of locations ever made on Wikipedia. About WP:INDISCRIMINATE: that policy is there to prevent people from inserting long and useless data where doing so would be inappropriate. Is this list inappropriately-placed long and useless data? Absolutely not.
- At the most, this article should be remade into a category or merged into
Quebec wine. What I really think should be done is a merger into
List of Wineries in Canada with the inclusion of other wineries across the country. -
Sweet
Nightmares 20:25, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- SweetNightmares, regarding your first paragraph in your response above, in my long experience here I have seen cases where lists of redlinks attract external links, often enough that I view such lists as something to be nipped in the bud. That's where WP:NOTDIR comes in. As to your second paragraph, I have no disagreement with deleting this article in favor of a category, or merging material into a larger list of Canadian wines. ~ Amatulić ( talk) 16:27, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
- The SPAM problem with lists of this type is that editors (usually people with a direct conflict of interest, such as the company's own marketing director) often try to replace the redlinks (and sometimes even bluelinks too) with direct offsite links to their own corporate websites. Bearcat ( talk) 22:43, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica 1000 21:46, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica 1000 01:38, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. 23:40, 21 August 2014 (UTC)-- 180.172.239.231 ( talk) 23:40, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
The primary purpose of a list of anything, on Wikipedia, is not to be a comprehensive directory of all things that exist within the parameters of the list regardless of whether they have Wikipedia articles or not, but specifically to help people find Wikipedia articles. I'm sure this was a good faith creation at the time, but if six years later there's still only one blue link in the entire list, then it's not really serving a particularly useful purpose at the present time — and if even SweetNightmares thinks that only two or three of the redlinks really have much potential of turning blue, then that's still not a terribly strong vote of confidence that it can become more useful than it is. Delete; no prejudice against recreation in the future if we ever have a reasonable number of articles about wineries in Quebec for it to link to. I wouldn't object to merging it into a Canada-wide list as proposed above, but the category reveals that we don't have a particularly large number of articles about wineries elsewhere in Canada either — so I'm not entirely convinced that a Canada-wide list would really be all that helpful, rather than just a reduplication of Category:Wineries in Canada, either. Bearcat ( talk) 22:35, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
- Delete: Five years ago, I voted differently at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of wineries and vineyards in Maine (November 2009), which is worth looking at. After five years, I think the delete voters like Agne there were probably right. These are not really useful lists to our project, they are directories. In any event, a list with one blue link is not a viable list, and its not a list of notable items, as most items on this list will not be notable.-- Milowent • has spoken 05:02, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.