The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to ACM-W. From the length of this discussion, I thought this would be a close call, but there is no argument that necessitates having two separate articles here. The ACM-W article is just over 5K, and the list is 7K, meaning that the merger of these will result in a still fairly short article. Consensus is clear that there should not be a separate article, with the prominent division in the discussion being whether it should be merged or deleted outright. Since merging retains the information in the encyclopedia, and there is not a strong consensus for outright deletion (with several editors being fine with delete or merge) the outcome is to merge and redirect. bd2412 T 01:46, 23 June 2019 (UTC) reply

List of ACM-W Celebrations

List of ACM-W Celebrations (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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Not notable in its own right. Merge into ACM-W Rathfelder ( talk) 11:59, 5 June 2019 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Computing-related deletion discussions. Rathfelder ( talk) 11:59, 5 June 2019 (UTC) reply

ACM is one of the premier world-wide computing organizations and ACM-W represents a substantial number of members in a large organization merging the lists into the main ACM-W page would unnecessarily complicate the page. When reviewing [ reasons for deletion], it doesn't meet the criteria for deletion:

Reasons for deletion include, but are not limited to, the following (subject to the condition that improvement or deletion of an offending section, if practical, is preferable to deletion of an entire page):

1. Content that meets at least one of the criteria for speedy deletion
2. Copyright violations and other material violating Wikipedia's non-free content criteria
3. Vandalism, including inflammatory redirects, pages that exist only to disparage their subject, patent nonsense, or gibberish
4. Advertising or other spam without any relevant or encyclopedic content (but not an article about an advertising-related subject)
5. Content forks (unless a merger or redirect is appropriate)
6. Articles that cannot possibly be attributed to reliable sources, including neologisms, original theories and conclusions, and articles that are themselves hoaxes (but not articles describing notable hoaxes)
7. Articles for which thorough attempts to find reliable sources to verify them have failed
8. Articles whose subjects fail to meet the relevant notability guideline ( WP:N, WP:GNG, WP:BIO, WP:MUSIC, WP:CORP, and so forth)
9. Articles that breach Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons
10. Redundant or otherwise useless templates
11. Categories representing overcategorization
12. Files that are unused, obsolete, or violate the non-free policy
13. Any other use of the article, template, project, or user namespace that is contrary to the established separate policy for that namespace
14. Any other content not suitable for an encyclopedia

Merging growing lists into the main page would not clarify the information or make it more accessible. Instead, the list of celebrations needs to be updated to include additional celebrations. We could definitely use more help getting the articles completed. Thank you for your interest. Cypherquest ( talk) 12:42, 5 June 2019 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU ^(T) 12:54, 5 June 2019 (UTC) reply

• Delete Lack of substantive independent coverage to establish notability. All major organizations plan events but it is not Wikipedia's place to catalogue their histories, especially without third-party sources. The themes of events could be covered in the main article. Reywas92 ^Talk 17:13, 5 June 2019 (UTC) reply
• Delete. Non notable subject, and mostly supported by external links/primary sources. Ajf773 ( talk) 20:14, 5 June 2019 (UTC) reply
  • These are noteworthy events ^[1] and the sources are not primary - they are the largest gatherings of this type with tens of thousands of people from many countries across the globe. We'll add additional external references, but they are independently important events in this field. Cypherquest ( talk) 20:33, 5 June 2019 (UTC) reply
• Keep. Very notable subject - one conference is listed on the White House archives as part of the ongoing legacy of United States Navy Rear Admiral Grace Hopper. ^[2] Please note Wikipedia administrator instructions that "...valid arguments citing relevant guidelines will be given more weight than unsupported statements; discussion guidelines are available. Be aware that using multiple accounts to reinforce a viewpoint is considered a serious breach of community trust, and that commenting on other users rather than the article is also considered disruptive. When discussing an article, remember to consider alternatives to deletion. If you think the article could be a disambiguation page, redirected or merged to another article, then consider recommending "Disambiguate", "Redirect" or "Merge" instead of deletion. Similarly, if another editor has proposed an alternative to deletion but you think the article should be deleted instead, please elaborate why."

-- Cypherquest ( talk) 22:07, 5 June 2019 (UTC) reply

• Delete as WP:NOTDIR Andy Dingley ( talk) 22:11, 5 June 2019 (UTC) reply
  • We are not a directory, but there are many list pages in Wikipedia, on less important topics. Note the external references include the White House archives. These are gatherings of significant interest across a wide selection of academia, industry, government, and non-profit organizations, including some of the largest tech companies in the US. It doesn't justify deleting a growing list of the evolution of these events. There are over 240,000 list pages in Wikipedia ^[3] - this topic qualifies. See List of lists of lists (characterized as incomplete) and Portal:Contents/Lists.

Cypherquest ( talk) 00:46, 6 June 2019 (UTC) reply

Are you going to copy-paste chunks of WP (even the most irrelevant) as a response to everyone with whom you disagree? Because that's very easy to do, but it's also a long way from a reasoned refutation. Also please remember that some editors have been here a long time, and are already pretty familiar with relevant policiess. Andy Dingley ( talk) 10:08, 6 June 2019 (UTC) reply

No — not all. I'm a relatively new editor to Wikipedia and if I find myself searching for specific information than I include it where it might be helpful. We want all Wikipedia articles and discussions to maintain the principles of Wikipedia and having the specific content available helps me understand where there might be differences and/or a misunderstanding between those more experienced and myself (or others who might like to participate). The list is specifically being discussed in terms of the original suggestion of non-notability and now in response to the WP:NOTDIR suggestion. We're waiting to see if the additional information presented addresses the specific concerns of the original commenters, while keeping the conversation accessible. We should be good on Wiki principles and policies now (at least until we get new suggestion in Wikilingo). :) Cypherquest ( talk) 12:04, 6 June 2019 (UTC) reply

• The ACM-W is clearly notable, but this list, without any context, is not. It would be much more useful merged into the main article. Rathfelder ( talk) 19:11, 6 June 2019 (UTC) reply
  • The ACM-W is notable - and these celebrations are noteworthy in their own right. The original celebration was recognized by the US White House on their page "The Untold History of Women in Science and Technology in the entry for United States Navy Rear Admiral Grace Hopper. ^[2] "Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper was at the forefront of computer and programming language development from the 1930s through the 1980s. One of the crowning achievements of her 44-year career was the development of computer languages written in English, rather than mathematical notation — most notably, the common business computing language known as COBOL, which is still in use today.  "Hopper's legacy is still honored by the annual Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing Conference. WITH COMMENTARY FROM U.S. CHIEF TECHNOLOGY OFFICER MEGAN SMITH. SOURCE: US NAVY". In addition to this noteworthy beginning, the conferences have attracted the participation of technology notables including Anita Hill, Priscilla Chan co-founder of the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, Justine Cassell of Carnegie Mellon University, one of the top universities in Computer Science. The list describes the expansion of celebrations globally to include the largest gathering of women in computing in India. The history and expansion of these events meet the criteria for a list article on Wikipedia. Cypherquest ( talk) 22:35, 6 June 2019 (UTC) reply
  • As you said, the list needed context. I've added the information about noteworthiness to the beginning of the article. Thank you for the recommendation. Cypherquest ( talk) 22:51, 6 June 2019 (UTC) reply

• I think it's improved sufficiently to keep, thank you. Rathfelder ( talk) 22:23, 7 June 2019 (UTC) reply

• Comment The References subsection of this page was two levels too high and consequentially messed up the log page. This has been fixed. – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 02:53, 7 June 2019 (UTC) reply

• Both issues been addressed and the original proposer's concerns have been withdrawn as noted above. When discussing, note the reasons you are proposing deletion, and provide justification according to Wikipedia principles. A decision to delete is not based on a vote, but on the principles and discussion raised. Do not delete the article without clearly explaining your reasons and justification for doing so. Cypherquest ( talk) 19:18, 13 June 2019 (UTC) reply

• Both issues been addressed and the original proposer's concerns have been withdrawn as noted above. When discussing, note the reasons you are proposing deletion, and provide justification according to Wikipedia principles. A decision to delete is not based on a vote, but on the principles and discussion raised. Do not delete the article without clearly explaining your reasons and justification for doing so. Cypherquest ( talk) 19:51, 13 June 2019 (UTC) reply

• Admin comment: It seems this was briefly listed at DRV before I relisted the discussion after Cypherquest contacted me on my talk page. I was not notified about or aware of the DRV. Sandstein 13:22, 14 June 2019 (UTC) reply

• Delete I came here after reviewing this at DRV. Looking through the sources, I think this fails WP:OR, WP:SYNTH, and potentially WP:PROMO. The parent article has some WP:NORG and WP:PROMO concerns as well as it's sourced entirely to its own website, but I think it's likely notable and just needs to be fixed. These haven't been discussed as a set anywhere and a lot of the sources don't even mention these are ACM-W celebrations. SportingFlyer T· C 20:36, 13 June 2019 (UTC) reply
• Selective merge into ACM-W I also came here from the DRV. This appears to fail WP:LISTN because the group of listed items hasn't, been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources. If it has, and I've just not looked in the right place, please correct me per WP:THREE. Some of the top material in this article could well be merged back into the parent, but not the entire list, per WP:NOTDIR. -- RoySmith (talk) 21:50, 13 June 2019 (UTC) reply
• Selective merge per Roy, based on my examination of the articles and potential sources (or lack thereof). And I also came here by way of DRV. Best, Barkeep49 ( talk) 17:34, 14 June 2019 (UTC) reply
• Keep. Duplicate !vote struck What's DRV? I can tell many of the editors are experienced, so I'm sure you've read many Wiki list articles. How many list articles (of our 240k) are you trying to get cleaned up? There's an awful lot of list articles that never reach this degree of notability - especially in a field that recognizes this as a critical issue. ^{[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]} Cypherquest ( talk) 16:48, 18 June 2019 (UTC) reply

DRV is WP:DRV - Deletion Review. -- Malcolmxl5 ( talk) 00:23, 21 June 2019 (UTC) reply

• I do think it would be better as part of the main article. I cant see anything gained in having the list as a seperate article. Rathfelder ( talk) 06:52, 21 June 2019 (UTC) reply
• Delete or Merge, besides the Grace Hopper Conferences, most are just non-notable events, be aware of the amount of events held or sponsored by ACM and associated chapters every year, they are not automatically notable. Viztor ( talk) 09:55, 22 June 2019 (UTC) reply
• Delete or Merge, as Viztor just said. - Nabla ( talk) 18:36, 22 June 2019 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.