- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Daniel ( talk) 22:55, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
Kittlers, Arkansas
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- Kittlers, Arkansas ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This one appears to be a NN rail feature. Topos show a point on the railroad with only minimal development. Appears in an 1899 rail directory as a point without a post office, but nothing significant is said about it there, and I found another directory listing from 1922. That's about all I could find for this point - no indication of a pass of WP:GEOLAND or WP:GNG. Hog Farm Talk 04:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Hog Farm Talk 04:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Arkansas-related deletion discussions. Hog Farm Talk 04:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
- Comment It appears that there's a
Gay District of Kittlers, though I'm unsure about the reliability of the source that describes it. However, if that source is correct, then this isn't just a train station masquerading as a geostub. —
Mhawk10 (
talk) 04:49, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
-
Government weather reports indicate that
shingles were blown off a roof
in a storm and that tree limbs were broken. Are we sure this is uninhabited?— Mhawk10 ( talk) 04:52, 28 November 2021 (UTC)- The first source is unreliable and possibly auto-generated. The second one is a passing mention in a government source that defines locations by the closest named point - I've seen stores, named farms, etc appear in those. Neither of those are enough to indicate that WP:GEOLAND is met (being named and having something in the area for a storm to tear up is not enough), and it certainly is not significant coverage for GNG. Hog Farm Talk 04:57, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
-
Government weather reports indicate that
- Keep. In combination with the Government weather report indicating that shingles were blown off of a roof (which implies some building), a cursory look on google maps shows that the location given on Wikipedia is within 2000 feet of what appears to be a house. This appears to be a sparely inhabited farming community and, per
WP:GEOLAND,
Populated, legally recognized places are typically presumed to be notable, even if their population is very low.
This is one such place; the government weather report indicates legal recognition and that report (combined with the map and the fact that there is maintained farmland there) indicates that it is populated. WP:GNG doesn't matter; meeting WP:NGEO is sufficient to meet the first criterion of notability. — Mhawk10 ( talk) 05:01, 28 November 2021 (UTC) - delete I see nothing here that says that this was anything more than a flag stop. It was just a spot on the railroad in the middle of a bunch of farms with no testimony that it was ever considered a settlement unto itself, or even a vague locale. Mangoe ( talk) 06:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
- Delete - GNIS is the only source cited in the article, but this is unreliable and cannot confer legal recognition. No evidence of notability either under WP:GEOLAND#1 or WP:GNG.
- Mhawk10 is wrong about what WP:GEOLAND says: we DO NOT keep articles simply because they are about a location that was inhabited (by someone? even one person? possibly no-one?). A government weather report does not confer legal recognition - how could it? "Legal recognition" requires more than a government document mentioning the location. "Legal recognition" requires a process of law, such as the issuing of a charter or incorporation - otherwise the phrase "legal recognition" has no meaning at all.
- I mean come on: a shingle? So like literally there may have been a building there of some kind, inhabited or not we don't know? No article can be written on this subject. There is simply nothing to write about this place, because there are no sources giving it significant cover. As such it's also a GNG fail.
- This comes right down to what we're doing on this here project. We are NOT creating directory listings. We ARE creating encyclopaedia articles. Wikipedia IS an encyclopaedia. It is NOT a gazetteer. FOARP ( talk) 14:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
- Comment - All mentions I found were of a Kittler family, especially someone with the surname in Arkansas County being charged with murder in 1971; see here for example. Perhaps this was nothing more than a homestead/station/etc. named after a family who lived there? wizzito | say hello! 12:57, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
- Comment - here's another Kittler who died one and one half miles east of a "Kittler Station". wizzito | say hello! 12:59, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
- Delete - No sign whatsoever of either legal recognition or GNG-level coverage as required by
WP:GEOLAND. Looking at the sources:
- NOAA - This one has several problems: A) The place where shingles were blown off was 1.1 miles East of Kittlers; B) The source doesn't say that the roof was on a house, and the building at that location sure looks like a Quonset hut type agricultural building to me; C) A mere mention in a government document doesn't count as legal recognition as a populated place , since these sources often just go by the nearest name that appears on the map.
- [1] - Please don't waste our time with autogenerated shit, there's clearly not a gay district out in the middle of a farm field.
- Google Maps - Please review
WP:NGEO:
"This guideline specifically excludes maps."
A scattering of farms within a several-mile radius does not prove the existence of a community. - Obituary - Yup, this confirms that it was a station.
- No reliable source has been brought forward that describes this as a community or populated place of any sort; that label is entirely WP:OR made up by a Wiki editor. – dlthewave ☎ 18:34, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Daniel ( talk) 22:55, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
Kittlers, Arkansas
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Kittlers, Arkansas ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This one appears to be a NN rail feature. Topos show a point on the railroad with only minimal development. Appears in an 1899 rail directory as a point without a post office, but nothing significant is said about it there, and I found another directory listing from 1922. That's about all I could find for this point - no indication of a pass of WP:GEOLAND or WP:GNG. Hog Farm Talk 04:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Hog Farm Talk 04:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Arkansas-related deletion discussions. Hog Farm Talk 04:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
- Comment It appears that there's a
Gay District of Kittlers, though I'm unsure about the reliability of the source that describes it. However, if that source is correct, then this isn't just a train station masquerading as a geostub. —
Mhawk10 (
talk) 04:49, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
-
Government weather reports indicate that
shingles were blown off a roof
in a storm and that tree limbs were broken. Are we sure this is uninhabited?— Mhawk10 ( talk) 04:52, 28 November 2021 (UTC)- The first source is unreliable and possibly auto-generated. The second one is a passing mention in a government source that defines locations by the closest named point - I've seen stores, named farms, etc appear in those. Neither of those are enough to indicate that WP:GEOLAND is met (being named and having something in the area for a storm to tear up is not enough), and it certainly is not significant coverage for GNG. Hog Farm Talk 04:57, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
-
Government weather reports indicate that
- Keep. In combination with the Government weather report indicating that shingles were blown off of a roof (which implies some building), a cursory look on google maps shows that the location given on Wikipedia is within 2000 feet of what appears to be a house. This appears to be a sparely inhabited farming community and, per
WP:GEOLAND,
Populated, legally recognized places are typically presumed to be notable, even if their population is very low.
This is one such place; the government weather report indicates legal recognition and that report (combined with the map and the fact that there is maintained farmland there) indicates that it is populated. WP:GNG doesn't matter; meeting WP:NGEO is sufficient to meet the first criterion of notability. — Mhawk10 ( talk) 05:01, 28 November 2021 (UTC) - delete I see nothing here that says that this was anything more than a flag stop. It was just a spot on the railroad in the middle of a bunch of farms with no testimony that it was ever considered a settlement unto itself, or even a vague locale. Mangoe ( talk) 06:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
- Delete - GNIS is the only source cited in the article, but this is unreliable and cannot confer legal recognition. No evidence of notability either under WP:GEOLAND#1 or WP:GNG.
- Mhawk10 is wrong about what WP:GEOLAND says: we DO NOT keep articles simply because they are about a location that was inhabited (by someone? even one person? possibly no-one?). A government weather report does not confer legal recognition - how could it? "Legal recognition" requires more than a government document mentioning the location. "Legal recognition" requires a process of law, such as the issuing of a charter or incorporation - otherwise the phrase "legal recognition" has no meaning at all.
- I mean come on: a shingle? So like literally there may have been a building there of some kind, inhabited or not we don't know? No article can be written on this subject. There is simply nothing to write about this place, because there are no sources giving it significant cover. As such it's also a GNG fail.
- This comes right down to what we're doing on this here project. We are NOT creating directory listings. We ARE creating encyclopaedia articles. Wikipedia IS an encyclopaedia. It is NOT a gazetteer. FOARP ( talk) 14:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
- Comment - All mentions I found were of a Kittler family, especially someone with the surname in Arkansas County being charged with murder in 1971; see here for example. Perhaps this was nothing more than a homestead/station/etc. named after a family who lived there? wizzito | say hello! 12:57, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
- Comment - here's another Kittler who died one and one half miles east of a "Kittler Station". wizzito | say hello! 12:59, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
- Delete - No sign whatsoever of either legal recognition or GNG-level coverage as required by
WP:GEOLAND. Looking at the sources:
- NOAA - This one has several problems: A) The place where shingles were blown off was 1.1 miles East of Kittlers; B) The source doesn't say that the roof was on a house, and the building at that location sure looks like a Quonset hut type agricultural building to me; C) A mere mention in a government document doesn't count as legal recognition as a populated place , since these sources often just go by the nearest name that appears on the map.
- [1] - Please don't waste our time with autogenerated shit, there's clearly not a gay district out in the middle of a farm field.
- Google Maps - Please review
WP:NGEO:
"This guideline specifically excludes maps."
A scattering of farms within a several-mile radius does not prove the existence of a community. - Obituary - Yup, this confirms that it was a station.
- No reliable source has been brought forward that describes this as a community or populated place of any sort; that label is entirely WP:OR made up by a Wiki editor. – dlthewave ☎ 18:34, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.