- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to List of Athens Tram stops. Vanamonde ( Talk) 18:11, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
Agia Triada tram stop
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Agia Triada tram stop ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Was deprodded with the rationale, "see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zappio tram stop", which was closed as "no consensus" with minimal participation and the single keep !vote not being based on policy. Not enough in-depth coverage to show that it passes WP:GNG. Onel5969 TT me 18:01, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Transportation and Greece. Shellwood ( talk) 18:11, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep and trout the nominator. If you read more than the bold closing statement at that AfD you will see that everyone other than the nominator was advocating discussing Athens trams stops as a set with a view to whether most/all should be merged into a list article because it doesn't make sense to just pick one stop at random and nominate it for deletion without regard for it being part of a set where almost all entities almost all have the same level of notability. Yet what the nominator has done here is pick one stop at random and nominate it for deletion without regard for it being part of the exact same set. Even if we were to ignore that (which we have no reason to), there is basically no chance this would be deleted - the viable outcomes are keep, merge or redirect. I'm expressing no opinion whether this individual stop is notable, but it is very clear that the set (Athens tram stops) is notable and so they need to be considered as a set, unless and until that is done it is premature and borderline disruptive to consider them individually.
Thryduulf (
talk) 18:47, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- That AfD only saw participation by myself (the nominator), the creator of the article, and one other editor who failed to advance a policy-based argument. To claim that is a clear consensus, when the AfD closed as no consensus, is misleading. Due to the habits of a certain few editors which contest any redirections by claiming objectively non-notable train/tram stations are "controversial", it has become necessary to AfD any train station article that doesn't merit a standalone page to gain an affirmative consensus for redirection. This article, and all the tram stops, should be redirected to a list article. I can't help but assume that if all the stops were nominated as a group, the same few editors would cry foul and insist "we must consider each tram stop on its own merits!!!"
Trainsandotherthings (
talk) 22:42, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
[I]t has become necessary to AfD any train station article that doesn't merit a standalone page to gain an affirmative consensus for redirection.
is just false. The reason AfDs of train stations are controversial is because people keep nominating them for deletion when they should be proposing a merge. AfD is for nominating articles for deletion, and there is a widespread consensus (affirmed time after time after time) that these articles should be merged and redirected if they aren't individually notable. And that was the conclusion of the last AfD, and will almost certainly be the conclusion of this AfD too. If time wasn't being wasted on discussions like this then there would be more merges happening with a lot less acrimony. Thryduulf ( talk) 23:53, 22 October 2022 (UTC)- Hi. I don't disagree with you, it is just that there was nowhere to merge/redirect these articles to. Now there is. Might I suggest you take a look? Onel5969 TT me 00:06, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
- [1] Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kinana railway station This was pointless bureaucracy and proves my point. The user who contested couldn't even be bothered to contribute to the AfD they forced to be created. Trainsandotherthings ( talk) 14:11, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
- That AfD only saw participation by myself (the nominator), the creator of the article, and one other editor who failed to advance a policy-based argument. To claim that is a clear consensus, when the AfD closed as no consensus, is misleading. Due to the habits of a certain few editors which contest any redirections by claiming objectively non-notable train/tram stations are "controversial", it has become necessary to AfD any train station article that doesn't merit a standalone page to gain an affirmative consensus for redirection. This article, and all the tram stops, should be redirected to a list article. I can't help but assume that if all the stops were nominated as a group, the same few editors would cry foul and insist "we must consider each tram stop on its own merits!!!"
Trainsandotherthings (
talk) 22:42, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- @ Thryduulf: Yes, as a set, the tram stops may be notable, but not individually. They should all be on one page. In similar logic, a music album is notable as a set of songs, but most of the songs separately are not notable. Waddles 🗩 🖉 22:33, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- Comment, no, what the nominator has done is nominate a newly created stub article which was created by the very same editor who promised to create a list article that all these stub articles would point to. And instead of creating that article, they are continuing to create these stubs. And again, the above keep !vote has no basis in policy.
Onel5969
TT me 19:36, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- They didn't "promise to create a list article", they suggested it would be something useful to create. My keep vote is perfectly in accordance with policy. Thryduulf ( talk) 20:17, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- No, I did not create any more Tram articles since the Zappio tram stop deletion discussion (25 September 2022):
- Agia Triada tram stop tram stop, last touched by me on 22 September (except to temporarily deprod 22 October 2022 until I finished the replacement).
- Asklepieio Voulas tram stop, last touched by me on 22 September.
- Baknana tram stop, 21 September
- Kasomouli tram stop, 21 September
- Kolymvitirio tram stop, 22 September
- Leoforos Vouliagmenis tram stop, 22 September
- Pikrodafni tram stop, 22 September
- Zappio tram stop, 23 September
- What you said is not good practice according to WP:DNTL, and risks hurting this nomination. It will also not make me move faster on the replacement article, in fact, it may slow it down further. -- Minoa ( talk) 20:56, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete the tram stop is not notable, it's a place where the tram stops. There is no station building there. No sources found, nothing for GNG. We would generally only keep railway or tram stations that have some sort of notable infrastructure at the location; this is just a "place", basically a pin on a map. Oaktree b ( talk) 20:48, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- Comment okay, I created the list page, List of Athens Tram stops, and included all cited information from the above non-notable (and in some cases, wholly uncited) stubs. Redirect there. Onel5969 TT me 21:26, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete Train stations, bus terminals, and airports are typically notable, but not transit stops. This is just where a tram stops, there is no building or transfer station to another mode of transit or significant history regarding it. Waddles 🗩 🖉 22:33, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect to Athens Tram or List of Athens Tram stops, though I think the latter could be merged to the former. Without station infrastructure, a mere stop is not notable. Reywas92 Talk 23:26, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of Athens Tram stops: Areas that might not be notable on a designated road are sometimes mentioned so I suppose it is not far-fetched, and it would be somewhat silly to ignore listing a stop on a route like it didn't exist, I would think. It is far better to have a list of all stops than to have individual articles that include non-notable stops. -- Otr500 ( talk) 02:48, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect to
List of Athens Tram stops, although I feel unimpressed by the disorganised nature of the AfD. The reason for me suspending the PROD was that I would like a smooth transition to a list with some effort put in, akin to
List of Blackpool Tramway tram stops and out of respect for
WP:CIR: it should not imply that I would oppose redirecting after the article was created. It does take time for me to get the coordinates, as well as getting the formatting right, and I do not always have free time. The point I am making here is that patience is greatly appreciated: I think it only becomes urgent in cases such as breaches of BLP policy or an ongoing war. --
Minoa (
talk) 15:18, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect Thanks to Onel5969 for creating a more suitable location for this text. MrsSnoozyTurtle 06:05, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of Athens Tram stops seems like the most sensible thing to do, this tram stop isn't notable on it's own. - Kj cheetham ( talk) 11:38, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to List of Athens Tram stops. Vanamonde ( Talk) 18:11, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
Agia Triada tram stop
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Agia Triada tram stop ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Was deprodded with the rationale, "see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zappio tram stop", which was closed as "no consensus" with minimal participation and the single keep !vote not being based on policy. Not enough in-depth coverage to show that it passes WP:GNG. Onel5969 TT me 18:01, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Transportation and Greece. Shellwood ( talk) 18:11, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep and trout the nominator. If you read more than the bold closing statement at that AfD you will see that everyone other than the nominator was advocating discussing Athens trams stops as a set with a view to whether most/all should be merged into a list article because it doesn't make sense to just pick one stop at random and nominate it for deletion without regard for it being part of a set where almost all entities almost all have the same level of notability. Yet what the nominator has done here is pick one stop at random and nominate it for deletion without regard for it being part of the exact same set. Even if we were to ignore that (which we have no reason to), there is basically no chance this would be deleted - the viable outcomes are keep, merge or redirect. I'm expressing no opinion whether this individual stop is notable, but it is very clear that the set (Athens tram stops) is notable and so they need to be considered as a set, unless and until that is done it is premature and borderline disruptive to consider them individually.
Thryduulf (
talk) 18:47, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- That AfD only saw participation by myself (the nominator), the creator of the article, and one other editor who failed to advance a policy-based argument. To claim that is a clear consensus, when the AfD closed as no consensus, is misleading. Due to the habits of a certain few editors which contest any redirections by claiming objectively non-notable train/tram stations are "controversial", it has become necessary to AfD any train station article that doesn't merit a standalone page to gain an affirmative consensus for redirection. This article, and all the tram stops, should be redirected to a list article. I can't help but assume that if all the stops were nominated as a group, the same few editors would cry foul and insist "we must consider each tram stop on its own merits!!!"
Trainsandotherthings (
talk) 22:42, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
[I]t has become necessary to AfD any train station article that doesn't merit a standalone page to gain an affirmative consensus for redirection.
is just false. The reason AfDs of train stations are controversial is because people keep nominating them for deletion when they should be proposing a merge. AfD is for nominating articles for deletion, and there is a widespread consensus (affirmed time after time after time) that these articles should be merged and redirected if they aren't individually notable. And that was the conclusion of the last AfD, and will almost certainly be the conclusion of this AfD too. If time wasn't being wasted on discussions like this then there would be more merges happening with a lot less acrimony. Thryduulf ( talk) 23:53, 22 October 2022 (UTC)- Hi. I don't disagree with you, it is just that there was nowhere to merge/redirect these articles to. Now there is. Might I suggest you take a look? Onel5969 TT me 00:06, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
- [1] Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kinana railway station This was pointless bureaucracy and proves my point. The user who contested couldn't even be bothered to contribute to the AfD they forced to be created. Trainsandotherthings ( talk) 14:11, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
- That AfD only saw participation by myself (the nominator), the creator of the article, and one other editor who failed to advance a policy-based argument. To claim that is a clear consensus, when the AfD closed as no consensus, is misleading. Due to the habits of a certain few editors which contest any redirections by claiming objectively non-notable train/tram stations are "controversial", it has become necessary to AfD any train station article that doesn't merit a standalone page to gain an affirmative consensus for redirection. This article, and all the tram stops, should be redirected to a list article. I can't help but assume that if all the stops were nominated as a group, the same few editors would cry foul and insist "we must consider each tram stop on its own merits!!!"
Trainsandotherthings (
talk) 22:42, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- @ Thryduulf: Yes, as a set, the tram stops may be notable, but not individually. They should all be on one page. In similar logic, a music album is notable as a set of songs, but most of the songs separately are not notable. Waddles 🗩 🖉 22:33, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- Comment, no, what the nominator has done is nominate a newly created stub article which was created by the very same editor who promised to create a list article that all these stub articles would point to. And instead of creating that article, they are continuing to create these stubs. And again, the above keep !vote has no basis in policy.
Onel5969
TT me 19:36, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- They didn't "promise to create a list article", they suggested it would be something useful to create. My keep vote is perfectly in accordance with policy. Thryduulf ( talk) 20:17, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- No, I did not create any more Tram articles since the Zappio tram stop deletion discussion (25 September 2022):
- Agia Triada tram stop tram stop, last touched by me on 22 September (except to temporarily deprod 22 October 2022 until I finished the replacement).
- Asklepieio Voulas tram stop, last touched by me on 22 September.
- Baknana tram stop, 21 September
- Kasomouli tram stop, 21 September
- Kolymvitirio tram stop, 22 September
- Leoforos Vouliagmenis tram stop, 22 September
- Pikrodafni tram stop, 22 September
- Zappio tram stop, 23 September
- What you said is not good practice according to WP:DNTL, and risks hurting this nomination. It will also not make me move faster on the replacement article, in fact, it may slow it down further. -- Minoa ( talk) 20:56, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete the tram stop is not notable, it's a place where the tram stops. There is no station building there. No sources found, nothing for GNG. We would generally only keep railway or tram stations that have some sort of notable infrastructure at the location; this is just a "place", basically a pin on a map. Oaktree b ( talk) 20:48, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- Comment okay, I created the list page, List of Athens Tram stops, and included all cited information from the above non-notable (and in some cases, wholly uncited) stubs. Redirect there. Onel5969 TT me 21:26, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete Train stations, bus terminals, and airports are typically notable, but not transit stops. This is just where a tram stops, there is no building or transfer station to another mode of transit or significant history regarding it. Waddles 🗩 🖉 22:33, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect to Athens Tram or List of Athens Tram stops, though I think the latter could be merged to the former. Without station infrastructure, a mere stop is not notable. Reywas92 Talk 23:26, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of Athens Tram stops: Areas that might not be notable on a designated road are sometimes mentioned so I suppose it is not far-fetched, and it would be somewhat silly to ignore listing a stop on a route like it didn't exist, I would think. It is far better to have a list of all stops than to have individual articles that include non-notable stops. -- Otr500 ( talk) 02:48, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect to
List of Athens Tram stops, although I feel unimpressed by the disorganised nature of the AfD. The reason for me suspending the PROD was that I would like a smooth transition to a list with some effort put in, akin to
List of Blackpool Tramway tram stops and out of respect for
WP:CIR: it should not imply that I would oppose redirecting after the article was created. It does take time for me to get the coordinates, as well as getting the formatting right, and I do not always have free time. The point I am making here is that patience is greatly appreciated: I think it only becomes urgent in cases such as breaches of BLP policy or an ongoing war. --
Minoa (
talk) 15:18, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect Thanks to Onel5969 for creating a more suitable location for this text. MrsSnoozyTurtle 06:05, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of Athens Tram stops seems like the most sensible thing to do, this tram stop isn't notable on it's own. - Kj cheetham ( talk) 11:38, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.