I have finished fleshing out all of my citations, so please perform a peer review of this article at your earliest convenience. Thanks! Tony Gunter
Very nice, but there's a variety of incidental things that need to be cleaned up before this would be ready for a A-Class or FA nomination:
Overall, the material itself is quite good, though; once the incidental issues are resolved, I think the article should have no trouble with an A-Class or FA nom. Kirill Lokshin 03:22, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
A related note on footnotes: I think that Kirill's concern about the cryptic nature of the OR footnotes should be satisfied by including the following Reference prior to the Notes (which I see you have done):
However, please note that the Official Records are actually primary sources, not the secondary sources that Wikipedia prefers for citations. The ORs are the written reports or correspondence from the participants, in some cases edited for personal or political advantage by those participants long after the fact. They are essentially raw data that are equivalent to letters from soldiers or personal memoirs. Therefore, an article that is documented primarily with the ORs is not relying on the scholarly analysis of professional historians who interpret them along with other primary sources to draw conclusions. Just as an example, I have found that many casualty figures cited in the ORs have been superseded by more careful analyses by historians. WP:RS implies that the ORs should be used only for purely descriptive claims. I have not evaluated the specifics of the citations here. Perhaps they are all legitimate, but the overwhelming bulk of OR cites in relation to the secondary sources seems troublesome. Hal Jespersen 17:19, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
A couple of more comments:
I agree with Kirill on this. When there are disagreements among historians, you need to highlight such differences. Otherwise, by selecting your own view of the narrative, you are violating WP:NPOV and performing original research. I find it rather shocking to hear that the most revered living ACW historian, Ed Bearss, is accused of bollixing up a battle history, but will be interested to see how you portray this. By the way, other secondary sources you can cite are:
Hal Jespersen 01:07, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
You may have difficulty coming up with a good Wikipedia article if almost all historians agree on a version of events and you disagree. You are not allowed to say, "Historian Smith states that [assertion] is true, but the following primary sources refute him." And you should not say directly that [assertion] is true, footnoting a primary source, and neglecting to point out that most secondary sources disagree with that assertion. You need to say something like, "Historian Smith's contention that [assertion] is true is refuted by historian Jones, who cites the official report of General Mumble and diaries from the 50th Tennessee." Otherwise, you are performing original research. One way around this dilemma, which I admit is not simple, is for you or an ally to write an article or book on the subject, have it published, and then cite that as a secondary source. But unfortunately, Wikipedia is not the place to right perceived historical wrongs. If all of this seems too cumbersome and roundabout, it would probably be acceptable to cast the majority of the article in what you believe is an appropriate interpretation of the primary source and have a section toward the end called "controversial historiography" or something in which you highlight the differences that the secondary sources have in a more general way. (It is difficult for me to make specific advance judgments in this case because I do not yet know what types of assertions you claim are in dispute.)
A few more comments about the article that may prove helpful.
Hal Jespersen 00:40, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Good article I've added a Infobox to the page, please help finishing filling out the box-- Gw099 01:52, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
I have finished fleshing out all of my citations, so please perform a peer review of this article at your earliest convenience. Thanks! Tony Gunter
Very nice, but there's a variety of incidental things that need to be cleaned up before this would be ready for a A-Class or FA nomination:
Overall, the material itself is quite good, though; once the incidental issues are resolved, I think the article should have no trouble with an A-Class or FA nom. Kirill Lokshin 03:22, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
A related note on footnotes: I think that Kirill's concern about the cryptic nature of the OR footnotes should be satisfied by including the following Reference prior to the Notes (which I see you have done):
However, please note that the Official Records are actually primary sources, not the secondary sources that Wikipedia prefers for citations. The ORs are the written reports or correspondence from the participants, in some cases edited for personal or political advantage by those participants long after the fact. They are essentially raw data that are equivalent to letters from soldiers or personal memoirs. Therefore, an article that is documented primarily with the ORs is not relying on the scholarly analysis of professional historians who interpret them along with other primary sources to draw conclusions. Just as an example, I have found that many casualty figures cited in the ORs have been superseded by more careful analyses by historians. WP:RS implies that the ORs should be used only for purely descriptive claims. I have not evaluated the specifics of the citations here. Perhaps they are all legitimate, but the overwhelming bulk of OR cites in relation to the secondary sources seems troublesome. Hal Jespersen 17:19, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
A couple of more comments:
I agree with Kirill on this. When there are disagreements among historians, you need to highlight such differences. Otherwise, by selecting your own view of the narrative, you are violating WP:NPOV and performing original research. I find it rather shocking to hear that the most revered living ACW historian, Ed Bearss, is accused of bollixing up a battle history, but will be interested to see how you portray this. By the way, other secondary sources you can cite are:
Hal Jespersen 01:07, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
You may have difficulty coming up with a good Wikipedia article if almost all historians agree on a version of events and you disagree. You are not allowed to say, "Historian Smith states that [assertion] is true, but the following primary sources refute him." And you should not say directly that [assertion] is true, footnoting a primary source, and neglecting to point out that most secondary sources disagree with that assertion. You need to say something like, "Historian Smith's contention that [assertion] is true is refuted by historian Jones, who cites the official report of General Mumble and diaries from the 50th Tennessee." Otherwise, you are performing original research. One way around this dilemma, which I admit is not simple, is for you or an ally to write an article or book on the subject, have it published, and then cite that as a secondary source. But unfortunately, Wikipedia is not the place to right perceived historical wrongs. If all of this seems too cumbersome and roundabout, it would probably be acceptable to cast the majority of the article in what you believe is an appropriate interpretation of the primary source and have a section toward the end called "controversial historiography" or something in which you highlight the differences that the secondary sources have in a more general way. (It is difficult for me to make specific advance judgments in this case because I do not yet know what types of assertions you claim are in dispute.)
A few more comments about the article that may prove helpful.
Hal Jespersen 00:40, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Good article I've added a Infobox to the page, please help finishing filling out the box-- Gw099 01:52, 27 October 2006 (UTC)