This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was delete. —
Xezbeth 20:17, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)
This vote is unusual, it is about the user page of User:Cantors who has re-inserted on it material from an article already voted for deletion because of contravening the guidelines in Wikipedia:Vanity page, see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Lawrence Eliezer Kepecs. It is also in contravention of Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a soapbox point 6: "Self-promotion...A very few somewhat famous Wikipedians have significantly contributed to encyclopedia articles about themselves and their accomplishments, and this has mostly been accepted after some debate. Creating overly abundant links and references to autobiographical articles is not acceptable...Wikipedia guidelines at Wikipedia:User page#What can I have on my user page? state that "...A good start is to add a little information about yourself...Generally, you should avoid substantial content on your user page...Wikipedia is not a general hosting service, so your user page is not a personal homepage..." Finally, this user has also chosen a name that contravenes Wikipedia:Username#Inappropriate usernames. See the Wikipedia log-in page [1] to "Avoid usernames that are offensive, inflammatory, or confusing...Avoid choosing a username that is the name of a celebrity, or a political, military, or religious figure" such as Cantors, see also Category:Cantors. IZAK 02:58, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
What you all fail to realize is that there are three organizations that are really upset with what you have been doing. We have had board meetings regarding your insistance on deleting any mention of the Papal meeting, or its participants. The fact that we were in touch with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon leading up to the meeting, apparently means nothing to you. Your actions of eliminating all references to the one event deemed one of the most highly important events in Judeo-Christian history by both the Israeli government as well as the Vatican is quite odd. It has angered three organizations, The Jewish Ministers Cantors Assn, the American Seminary for Cont. Judaism, and Pave the Way Foundation. We collectively feel a terrible injustice has been done by your organization. There was an historical event that took place on January 18, 2005, where a sitting Pope (John Paul II) was visited for the first time in history by 141 very grateful Jewish clergy, who wished to thank him for everything he had done for the Jewish people and for the State of Israel. The event was reported across the country in many publications, as well as the Vatican newspaper, The New York Times, and was covered on Italian television. We inserted a paragraph into your encyclopedia, and your editors have consistently chosen to eliminate all mention of this event from any article that had contained it. They also removed bios of Cantor Victor Beck, President of the Jewish Ministers Cantors Assn, Cantor Eliezer Kepecs, Vice President elect of the JMCA, Gary Krupp, President of Pave the Way Foundation and others who were deemed important to this event and other events. Upon trying to reason with these ill informed editors, that this event was extremely important in Judeo-Christian developments, endorsed by the former Pope himself, the Israeli government, and Cantors and Rabbis worldwide, they choose to ignore it and have erased all mention of it from your encyclopedia, thereby altering important history. In addition they have erased all mention of the participants, and the one who brought us there- Gary Krupp, knighted by the Pope, and President and founder of Pave the Way Foundation. The remarks in the discussion pages, that your editors make about Rabbis and Cantors, are not only incorrect, but are on the verge of lible, such as "There is no such thing as Jewish clergy", and "Rabbis and Cantors are just lay-people, who are not ordained clergymen." Voting on deleting our user page User:Cantors, and all its associated pictures, stating this user name is offensive, is a violation of our civil rights and liberties. You have also written that the event and its participants were not notable. We are extremely upset at all these deletions, consistently signifying religious discrimination against Jews, Rabbis, and Cantors. In addition an encyclopedia which makes the claim that everyone can edit it, is misrepresentative of what is really going on in its pages. Many people, from various organizations have been offended by this act. We have had board meetings and discussed the possible solutions to the problem at hand. We would like you to right the injustices that have been done to many by your institution. You should reverse the injustices that your editors have done. We appeal to you now on a colleageate level. Thank you, -Respectfully submitted, Reverend Cantor Gary Buchwald, Secretary JMCA; Reverend Cantor Tyrone Bauer, board JMCA; Reverend Cantor Leslie Rimer, Treasurer JMCA; Reverend Cantor Victor I. Beck, President JMCA; Reverend Cantor Michael Trachtenberg, Treasurer elect JMCA; Reverend Cantor Ben Matis, board JMCA, Faculty American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Reverend Cantor David Montefiore, President elect JMCA; Reverend Cantor Eliezer Kepecs, Vice President elect JMCA, Faculty and board American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Reverend Cantor Yehuda Rossler, board JMCA; Reverend Cantor Ofer Barnoy, board JMCA; Reverend Steven Blitz; Reverend George Henschel; Rabbi Aron Griver, Board JMCA, Faculty American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Rabbi Harvey Weil, Faculty American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Robert E. Cohen, Dean American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Gary Krupp, President Pave the Way Foundation; Mark Morris, board American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Mona Morris, board American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Michael Baum, board American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Michael Eisenstein, board American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Melissa Wind; Gary Laveman; Lillian Kessler. (Statement by 24.185.97.194, whose only edits are to this and related pages.)
We never meant to be offensive to you, but what you have done to us, is quite offensive. - User:24.185.97.194, 23:00, June 20, 2005 (UTC)
Subject: Greetings
Hello Cantor Beck,
I would like to inquire whether or not you are aware of the ongoing activities on Wikipedia by an editor (possibly more than one) claiming to be representing you at times, and at other times claiming to represent organizations with which you are involved. I'm just looking for a "yes" or "no". If you require more information, please let me know.
Thanks in advance,
Tomer Shiloach
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:TShilo12
Hello Tomer Shiloach,
I was made aware of the site and of the article placed there about me. This was done without consultation with me, but since I am a public figure I didn't give it much thought. No more so than the hundreds of newspaper articles that appear each year. I did check it out out of curiosity, and was appalled at the comments being made by some of the so called editors. I decided to try and correct some misconceptions which were being voiced and was attacked so vituperatively, and was accused of some remarkable things, that I decided that it was beneath my dignity to slosh around in the filth that was being spread. I really didn't need these so called editors to validate my life's work. That job is being done by those who actually know the value of what I have done and what I do. More importantly, when I am finally called upon to answer the question, "...have I been the Me that I could have been... I am hoping that I will honestly be able to say yes. It is to that goal that I guide my life's work.
As for others who claim to be me or to speak for me, I neither know nor care to know anything about it. If they are saying anything in a positive vein, I can only assume that they are as disgusted by the manner in which I was treated as I was, and are trying, in good conscience to fight my battle for me. Until proven otherwise I will assume that this is the case, just as I am assuming that your information request was genuine. I generally try to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
If you wish any other information, please feel free to write to me. By the way you might tell the self rightous fool ish editor who posted what he thought was my home phone number, that he has caused some poor little old lady in Tuscon, Arizona to become ill and disconnect her phone due to all the harrassing phone calls she was getting at all hours of the day and night. The Tuscon police were at a loss to explain it, but I'm told that they are investigating.
Eventually we all have to answer for our actions,
Kol Tuv,
Cantor Victor Beck
I'm confused. Would there be objection to this content in the Article Namespace rather than in the User Namespace? What is objectionable, the what or the where (or both)? hydnjo talk 21:29, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was delete. —
Xezbeth 20:17, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)
This vote is unusual, it is about the user page of User:Cantors who has re-inserted on it material from an article already voted for deletion because of contravening the guidelines in Wikipedia:Vanity page, see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Lawrence Eliezer Kepecs. It is also in contravention of Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a soapbox point 6: "Self-promotion...A very few somewhat famous Wikipedians have significantly contributed to encyclopedia articles about themselves and their accomplishments, and this has mostly been accepted after some debate. Creating overly abundant links and references to autobiographical articles is not acceptable...Wikipedia guidelines at Wikipedia:User page#What can I have on my user page? state that "...A good start is to add a little information about yourself...Generally, you should avoid substantial content on your user page...Wikipedia is not a general hosting service, so your user page is not a personal homepage..." Finally, this user has also chosen a name that contravenes Wikipedia:Username#Inappropriate usernames. See the Wikipedia log-in page [1] to "Avoid usernames that are offensive, inflammatory, or confusing...Avoid choosing a username that is the name of a celebrity, or a political, military, or religious figure" such as Cantors, see also Category:Cantors. IZAK 02:58, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
What you all fail to realize is that there are three organizations that are really upset with what you have been doing. We have had board meetings regarding your insistance on deleting any mention of the Papal meeting, or its participants. The fact that we were in touch with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon leading up to the meeting, apparently means nothing to you. Your actions of eliminating all references to the one event deemed one of the most highly important events in Judeo-Christian history by both the Israeli government as well as the Vatican is quite odd. It has angered three organizations, The Jewish Ministers Cantors Assn, the American Seminary for Cont. Judaism, and Pave the Way Foundation. We collectively feel a terrible injustice has been done by your organization. There was an historical event that took place on January 18, 2005, where a sitting Pope (John Paul II) was visited for the first time in history by 141 very grateful Jewish clergy, who wished to thank him for everything he had done for the Jewish people and for the State of Israel. The event was reported across the country in many publications, as well as the Vatican newspaper, The New York Times, and was covered on Italian television. We inserted a paragraph into your encyclopedia, and your editors have consistently chosen to eliminate all mention of this event from any article that had contained it. They also removed bios of Cantor Victor Beck, President of the Jewish Ministers Cantors Assn, Cantor Eliezer Kepecs, Vice President elect of the JMCA, Gary Krupp, President of Pave the Way Foundation and others who were deemed important to this event and other events. Upon trying to reason with these ill informed editors, that this event was extremely important in Judeo-Christian developments, endorsed by the former Pope himself, the Israeli government, and Cantors and Rabbis worldwide, they choose to ignore it and have erased all mention of it from your encyclopedia, thereby altering important history. In addition they have erased all mention of the participants, and the one who brought us there- Gary Krupp, knighted by the Pope, and President and founder of Pave the Way Foundation. The remarks in the discussion pages, that your editors make about Rabbis and Cantors, are not only incorrect, but are on the verge of lible, such as "There is no such thing as Jewish clergy", and "Rabbis and Cantors are just lay-people, who are not ordained clergymen." Voting on deleting our user page User:Cantors, and all its associated pictures, stating this user name is offensive, is a violation of our civil rights and liberties. You have also written that the event and its participants were not notable. We are extremely upset at all these deletions, consistently signifying religious discrimination against Jews, Rabbis, and Cantors. In addition an encyclopedia which makes the claim that everyone can edit it, is misrepresentative of what is really going on in its pages. Many people, from various organizations have been offended by this act. We have had board meetings and discussed the possible solutions to the problem at hand. We would like you to right the injustices that have been done to many by your institution. You should reverse the injustices that your editors have done. We appeal to you now on a colleageate level. Thank you, -Respectfully submitted, Reverend Cantor Gary Buchwald, Secretary JMCA; Reverend Cantor Tyrone Bauer, board JMCA; Reverend Cantor Leslie Rimer, Treasurer JMCA; Reverend Cantor Victor I. Beck, President JMCA; Reverend Cantor Michael Trachtenberg, Treasurer elect JMCA; Reverend Cantor Ben Matis, board JMCA, Faculty American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Reverend Cantor David Montefiore, President elect JMCA; Reverend Cantor Eliezer Kepecs, Vice President elect JMCA, Faculty and board American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Reverend Cantor Yehuda Rossler, board JMCA; Reverend Cantor Ofer Barnoy, board JMCA; Reverend Steven Blitz; Reverend George Henschel; Rabbi Aron Griver, Board JMCA, Faculty American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Rabbi Harvey Weil, Faculty American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Robert E. Cohen, Dean American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Gary Krupp, President Pave the Way Foundation; Mark Morris, board American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Mona Morris, board American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Michael Baum, board American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Michael Eisenstein, board American Seminary for Cont. Jud.; Melissa Wind; Gary Laveman; Lillian Kessler. (Statement by 24.185.97.194, whose only edits are to this and related pages.)
We never meant to be offensive to you, but what you have done to us, is quite offensive. - User:24.185.97.194, 23:00, June 20, 2005 (UTC)
Subject: Greetings
Hello Cantor Beck,
I would like to inquire whether or not you are aware of the ongoing activities on Wikipedia by an editor (possibly more than one) claiming to be representing you at times, and at other times claiming to represent organizations with which you are involved. I'm just looking for a "yes" or "no". If you require more information, please let me know.
Thanks in advance,
Tomer Shiloach
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:TShilo12
Hello Tomer Shiloach,
I was made aware of the site and of the article placed there about me. This was done without consultation with me, but since I am a public figure I didn't give it much thought. No more so than the hundreds of newspaper articles that appear each year. I did check it out out of curiosity, and was appalled at the comments being made by some of the so called editors. I decided to try and correct some misconceptions which were being voiced and was attacked so vituperatively, and was accused of some remarkable things, that I decided that it was beneath my dignity to slosh around in the filth that was being spread. I really didn't need these so called editors to validate my life's work. That job is being done by those who actually know the value of what I have done and what I do. More importantly, when I am finally called upon to answer the question, "...have I been the Me that I could have been... I am hoping that I will honestly be able to say yes. It is to that goal that I guide my life's work.
As for others who claim to be me or to speak for me, I neither know nor care to know anything about it. If they are saying anything in a positive vein, I can only assume that they are as disgusted by the manner in which I was treated as I was, and are trying, in good conscience to fight my battle for me. Until proven otherwise I will assume that this is the case, just as I am assuming that your information request was genuine. I generally try to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
If you wish any other information, please feel free to write to me. By the way you might tell the self rightous fool ish editor who posted what he thought was my home phone number, that he has caused some poor little old lady in Tuscon, Arizona to become ill and disconnect her phone due to all the harrassing phone calls she was getting at all hours of the day and night. The Tuscon police were at a loss to explain it, but I'm told that they are investigating.
Eventually we all have to answer for our actions,
Kol Tuv,
Cantor Victor Beck
I'm confused. Would there be objection to this content in the Article Namespace rather than in the User Namespace? What is objectionable, the what or the where (or both)? hydnjo talk 21:29, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)