User Gpkp made their first edit on
26 August 2010, but after making four more edits in 2010, they became inactive. After a break of seven years, they again became active on
6 December 2017. If one looks at the
articles created by Gpkp, they started creating articles about the
Kannada actors & magazines. But from
March onward, and esp. Arpil onward, their editing started looking like undisclosed paid editing, e.g. they created
[1],
[2],
[3],
[4],
[5], etc. between 19 April & 29 April 2018.
Anyway, user Gpkp started editing an SPA-created
2A Magazine article on
19 April 2018, and Accesscrawl – who was inactive after making their first edit on
26 November 2017 – became active on 23 April 2018, and continued the work of
expanding that article. Two days later, Accesscrawl
created their user page by copy-pasting the user page of Gpkp. After realizing their mistake, they
blanked the page within minutes. User Gpkp created article about an Iranian architect, namely
Ahmad Zohadi, on 28 April 2018. It was
AfDed within few minutes. And few minutes later Accesscrawl
edited it. Six days after Gpkp successfully
refunded the
soft deleted article, Accesscrawl uploaded a
high resolution pic of the subject, which was supposedly taken by them in Berlin. Note that, leaving behind this pic,
all other uploaded pics of Accesscrawl are of the villages of
Himachal Pradesh, India. Few months down the line, Gpkp
uploaded a pic for 2A Magazine, and on the same day, Accesscrawl created an article on
2A Continental Architectural Awards, which are organised by 2A Magazine.
Accesscrawl started editing
Rajneesh on
24 April 2018, and Gpkp also made their first edit at the article
on that day, in which they added 'Osho' in the infobox. User Gpkp made their second & last edit at Rajneesh
on the next day, in which they replaced "Osho Rajneesh" with "Osho" in the infobox. Few hours later, Accesscrawl started editing that article in the same vein, and
replaced "Rajneesh" with "Osho" in the lead. Note that how both editors gave example of
Gulzar in their edit summaries –
[6] &
[7].
Accesscrawl created
Naggar Castle at
02:31, 19 June 2018, and it was CSDed at
03:50, 19 June 2018. Within two minutes of the CSD tagging, Gpkp logged in & made
first edit of the day. And after sorting out the uploaded pic, they started
improving the article. Note that Accesscrawl was logged in via mobile phone, while Gpkp was logged in with some other device during this interval.
Accesscrawl created
Gino Banks on
21 June 2018. Four minutes after Accesscrawl made their second edit to it, Gpkp
expanded it. Note that they were again using different devices for editing. Similarly,
The Price of Everything was created by Accesscrawl on 29 July 2018, and Gpkp
expanded it the very next day.
Finally, there are other edit overlaps which can be seen
here.
User Onkuchia made their first edit in
October 2017 & has made around 300 edits till date. He had made
three edits at AfDs till the day before yesterday, and all of them were unmistakably made to help Accesscrawl. First participation of Onkuchia at AfDs was at
Guri (singer). As one can see, Accesscrawl's delete !vote was followed by a "keep" !vote, after which there was no !vote till Onkuchia !voted "delete" at the end of 2nd relisting, which proved decisive. Similarly, Onkuchia's second !vote came at
George Meredith (sannyasin), which was AfDed by Accesscrawl. Just before the close of that AfD, a user
comments might have swung the balance, but Onkuchia came &
sealed the deal. Their third !vote is at
Shikha Makan – the article was created by Accesscrawl. After its 2nd relist, one user !voted to
draftify the article, while I was commenting in favour of redirect. So Onkuchia appeared again &
!voted "keep" just before the end of second relisting.
User Orientls made their first few edits in 2014, after which they became inactive. And like the other three accounts, they became active near the end of 2017, and have made around 370 edits. Like Onkuchia, they are also giving a helping hand at the AfDs & the ANI to Accesscrawl. Accesscrawl started the
Mahdi Fakhimi AfD. After no one !voted there, Orientls
!voted "delete" just before the completion of the first week. Similarly, they
!voted "delete" at
George Meredith (sannyasin), which was AfDed by Accesscrawl. They were also the first one to
!vote "keep" at
Shikha Makan AfD – the article was created by Accesscrawl. At the
AfD of Bomai incident, they !voted "delete" on
5 July 2018, and within few hours, Accesscrawl also
!voted "delete" there.
All three of the suspected socks made their first edits within a timespan of 20 minutes today – between 4:33 UTC & 4:53 UTC –
[8],
[9], &
[10]. But that might be a coincidence.
Accesscrawl, firstly, if
Sam Sailor had checked the editing pattern of the two accounts, he would've already reported you. Anyway, user Gpkp provided you help as recently as
two weeks ago, so that surely doesn't count as your "early days". Secondly, Gpkp is using your account to avoid scrutiny regarding paid editing. That's why they uploaded
Ahmad Zohadi's pic via
your account. Otherwise editors might have asked about their COI. They've also created an article about an
award (which is organized by Ahmad Zohadi's magazine) through your account. Similarly, they used your account to change the common name of
Rajneesh, which was quite a controversial move. You also invited them at the
Rajneesh's talk page move request in June, and you were clearly pretending as if they were unknown to you. So, if not sock puppetry, you are indulging in meat puppetry & suspected undisclosed paid editing, to say the least. But looking at the overlapping & suspicious edits of the four of you, I believe that this is a case of sock puppetry. Also, copyvio problem isn't only with Onkuchia. Both you & Gpkp have the same problem. In fact, the latter was
blocked for copyvio, and you also have your share of them, e.g.
[11],
[12], etc. Anyway, experienced users will take care of this case, and you shouldn't worry about it, provided you have clean hands. -
NitinMlk (
talk)
19:50, 15 August 2018 (UTC)reply
Accesscrawl's
assumption of bad faith &
casting of aspersions on other users are blatant violations of this project's policies. Like Onkuchia was
advised yesterday, I would advise Accesscrawl to visit
WP:ASPERSIONS. Interestingly, at their respective user pages,
Accesscrawl had Category:Wikipedians in Maharashtra, while
Onkuchia had Category:WikiProject Maharashtra members. But both of them removed Maharashtra-specific categories later on.
Anyway, I suspect that a single person is abusing multiple accounts here to avoid scrutiny & to win disputes at articles, AfDs, & AN. And I've provided proofs for the same. So, Accesscrawl, please focus on constructive editing & let a checkuser sort this case out. -
NitinMlk (
talk)
18:38, 16 August 2018 (UTC)reply
Furthermore the relation was already revealed on wiki. Gpkp has given me a hand during my early days. Everyone including
Sam Sailor (
talk·contribs) is aware about it. Who are these two other users? One editor still learning how to avoid copyvio
[13] while other editor knows what is a "WP:NOTLYRICS"
[14]. You need to make better arguments to push your POV on an AfD than making up connection anyhow. Sorry but this SPI is garbage.
Accesscrawl (
talk)
06:49, 15 August 2018 (UTC)reply
I see you are already making your SPI irrelevant since after failing to provide credible evidence of sock puppetry you have started alleging me of paid editing.
WP:COI is thataway, but hopefully that is not going to work for you either because your allegations are absurd. You are cherrypicking because I canvassed over a dozen editors to
Rajneesh. I could elaborate but it seems that you won't understand after all. Sharing only some same interests is not an evidence otherwise you should be convicted as my "strawman sock".
Accesscrawl (
talk)
03:51, 16 August 2018 (UTC)reply
I'm only going to comment up here in this report, seeing how I've already made several pointed comments in the NadirAli siteban proposal. I have noted for some time how Accesscrawl's aggressive noticeboard postings (example directly above this comment) remind me of another user, but I haven't been able to put my finger on it. I had also noted in the siteban thread how Orientls' aggressive style "reminded me of someone", and just thinking on it now how Orientls went away after he targeted me and I shot back, after which Accesscrawl turned up with more aggressive badgering of other commenters in opposition to the site ban. I also wrote in that thread about how it was interesting that several not-new accounts had turned up in that thread with their first-ever or first-in-years AN edit, and Onkuchia was among those accounts. There's something going on there that smells like
Stratford after a good rain. However, I've had exactly zero interactions with the supposed master.
Ivanvector (Talk/Edits)
19:07, 15 August 2018 (UTC)reply
My comments here are a valid reaction to an SPI filed only for winning an AfD. On AN thread, I had made two comments when I made my first edit to the section and it comes before you "shot back" anyone.
Accesscrawl (
talk)
03:17, 16 August 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment by Sam Sailor (
pinged): I have interacted first with Accesscrawl (AC) and later with Gpkp. It was I who noticed that AC had copied Gpkp's user page (
permalink to discussion with Gpkp) and his answer was a straight: Upon the copy-paste act, I need to inform you that I know the user in person, who copypasted, and we were having a discussion on updating his userpage on that day. Basic profiling based on
suggests that it is two different persons behind these two accounts. Nowhere is it more clear than when looking at how they communicate: I can not find a single case where Gpkp replies in a snarky fashion. I find no reason not to believe Gpkp's statement AGF. Where the two have edited the same articles, I struggle to see that there has been any faul intentions; it looks more like "hey, bud, could you lend me a hand with sourcing and expanding?" Although their edits to
Rajneesh in April gives me a serious case of facepalm and "what were you thinking, guys?", and I can fully understand if someone looks at that those edits and thinks "collusion" - and not a very thoughtful and succesful one. Still, I chose to see it as a failure to observe
WP:STABLE and follow
WP:CAREFUL rather than malice.The above filing tries to connect dots that are mighty far apart, look here
2008: Gpkp is created, makes 5 edits in 2010 and is then dormant until
December 2017
2014-03: Orientls is created, makes about 30 edits now and again before they start editing in
October 2017
2017-08: Onkuchia is created, they have edited regularily since
April 2018
There is zero overlap worth noticing between Gpkp and the two other accounts, cf.
Editor Interaction Analyser. OP makes a case of alleged vote stacking at AFD. The alleged master Gpkp has
zero edits at AFD ever. There is, between the three remaining accounts, an
overlap at five AFD discussions. All of these are India-related topics. But it is perhaps relevant to have a look at discussions where there are no overlap, although vote stacking would be typical:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ruhan Rajput - this would be the archetypical AFD to call upon one's socks, but I see none. Bar 1 editor, they are all regular participants at AFD.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jass Manak, yet another AFD where AC !votes "keep" as the only editor, and none of his alleged socks join the discussion to support him.
(responding to
ping) Like I've said now in many places, I'm quite strongly convinced of off-wiki collusion (meat puppetry at least) among several users on one side of a certain Arbcom-mediated dispute, involving many more users than just what is mentioned here. But that will require much more thorough investigation than what we do at SPI. If these accounts are not technically related, then I suggest this be closed.
Ivanvector (Talk/Edits)
13:49, 9 September 2018 (UTC)reply
I never took this SPI seriously. I don't even know who is Orientls and Onkuchia. The entire crux of the mentioned dispute is that when you see disruptive editors and
obviously disruptive socks conflicting on same articles and disputes, then you would also see experienced editors deal with that disruption on regular basis and that inspires more editors to do the same. It is a bad news that their efforts are sometimes subject to mudslinging and meaningless conjecture (generally by ban evading socks and
WP:1AMers), which is unfortunate. Since it happens frequently, this is why editors like me frequently monitor the affected areas through watchlist and check the activities of many other editors, to see where it is possible to intervene. This pattern was well understood by admins on a recent bogus SPI which was filed by a NOTHERE meat puppet against me and DBigXray.
[15]Accesscrawl (
talk)
17:03, 9 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Accesscrawl does have a very very low edit additional account, but it's not violating any policies.
Accesscrawl, Onkuchia, Orientls all have very high level differences which erases all concerns that they are the same persons, and therefore are Unrelated.
As Gpkp didn't come up in the search of three accounts, I'm not going to run them.
User Gpkp made their first edit on
26 August 2010, but after making four more edits in 2010, they became inactive. After a break of seven years, they again became active on
6 December 2017. If one looks at the
articles created by Gpkp, they started creating articles about the
Kannada actors & magazines. But from
March onward, and esp. Arpil onward, their editing started looking like undisclosed paid editing, e.g. they created
[1],
[2],
[3],
[4],
[5], etc. between 19 April & 29 April 2018.
Anyway, user Gpkp started editing an SPA-created
2A Magazine article on
19 April 2018, and Accesscrawl – who was inactive after making their first edit on
26 November 2017 – became active on 23 April 2018, and continued the work of
expanding that article. Two days later, Accesscrawl
created their user page by copy-pasting the user page of Gpkp. After realizing their mistake, they
blanked the page within minutes. User Gpkp created article about an Iranian architect, namely
Ahmad Zohadi, on 28 April 2018. It was
AfDed within few minutes. And few minutes later Accesscrawl
edited it. Six days after Gpkp successfully
refunded the
soft deleted article, Accesscrawl uploaded a
high resolution pic of the subject, which was supposedly taken by them in Berlin. Note that, leaving behind this pic,
all other uploaded pics of Accesscrawl are of the villages of
Himachal Pradesh, India. Few months down the line, Gpkp
uploaded a pic for 2A Magazine, and on the same day, Accesscrawl created an article on
2A Continental Architectural Awards, which are organised by 2A Magazine.
Accesscrawl started editing
Rajneesh on
24 April 2018, and Gpkp also made their first edit at the article
on that day, in which they added 'Osho' in the infobox. User Gpkp made their second & last edit at Rajneesh
on the next day, in which they replaced "Osho Rajneesh" with "Osho" in the infobox. Few hours later, Accesscrawl started editing that article in the same vein, and
replaced "Rajneesh" with "Osho" in the lead. Note that how both editors gave example of
Gulzar in their edit summaries –
[6] &
[7].
Accesscrawl created
Naggar Castle at
02:31, 19 June 2018, and it was CSDed at
03:50, 19 June 2018. Within two minutes of the CSD tagging, Gpkp logged in & made
first edit of the day. And after sorting out the uploaded pic, they started
improving the article. Note that Accesscrawl was logged in via mobile phone, while Gpkp was logged in with some other device during this interval.
Accesscrawl created
Gino Banks on
21 June 2018. Four minutes after Accesscrawl made their second edit to it, Gpkp
expanded it. Note that they were again using different devices for editing. Similarly,
The Price of Everything was created by Accesscrawl on 29 July 2018, and Gpkp
expanded it the very next day.
Finally, there are other edit overlaps which can be seen
here.
User Onkuchia made their first edit in
October 2017 & has made around 300 edits till date. He had made
three edits at AfDs till the day before yesterday, and all of them were unmistakably made to help Accesscrawl. First participation of Onkuchia at AfDs was at
Guri (singer). As one can see, Accesscrawl's delete !vote was followed by a "keep" !vote, after which there was no !vote till Onkuchia !voted "delete" at the end of 2nd relisting, which proved decisive. Similarly, Onkuchia's second !vote came at
George Meredith (sannyasin), which was AfDed by Accesscrawl. Just before the close of that AfD, a user
comments might have swung the balance, but Onkuchia came &
sealed the deal. Their third !vote is at
Shikha Makan – the article was created by Accesscrawl. After its 2nd relist, one user !voted to
draftify the article, while I was commenting in favour of redirect. So Onkuchia appeared again &
!voted "keep" just before the end of second relisting.
User Orientls made their first few edits in 2014, after which they became inactive. And like the other three accounts, they became active near the end of 2017, and have made around 370 edits. Like Onkuchia, they are also giving a helping hand at the AfDs & the ANI to Accesscrawl. Accesscrawl started the
Mahdi Fakhimi AfD. After no one !voted there, Orientls
!voted "delete" just before the completion of the first week. Similarly, they
!voted "delete" at
George Meredith (sannyasin), which was AfDed by Accesscrawl. They were also the first one to
!vote "keep" at
Shikha Makan AfD – the article was created by Accesscrawl. At the
AfD of Bomai incident, they !voted "delete" on
5 July 2018, and within few hours, Accesscrawl also
!voted "delete" there.
All three of the suspected socks made their first edits within a timespan of 20 minutes today – between 4:33 UTC & 4:53 UTC –
[8],
[9], &
[10]. But that might be a coincidence.
Accesscrawl, firstly, if
Sam Sailor had checked the editing pattern of the two accounts, he would've already reported you. Anyway, user Gpkp provided you help as recently as
two weeks ago, so that surely doesn't count as your "early days". Secondly, Gpkp is using your account to avoid scrutiny regarding paid editing. That's why they uploaded
Ahmad Zohadi's pic via
your account. Otherwise editors might have asked about their COI. They've also created an article about an
award (which is organized by Ahmad Zohadi's magazine) through your account. Similarly, they used your account to change the common name of
Rajneesh, which was quite a controversial move. You also invited them at the
Rajneesh's talk page move request in June, and you were clearly pretending as if they were unknown to you. So, if not sock puppetry, you are indulging in meat puppetry & suspected undisclosed paid editing, to say the least. But looking at the overlapping & suspicious edits of the four of you, I believe that this is a case of sock puppetry. Also, copyvio problem isn't only with Onkuchia. Both you & Gpkp have the same problem. In fact, the latter was
blocked for copyvio, and you also have your share of them, e.g.
[11],
[12], etc. Anyway, experienced users will take care of this case, and you shouldn't worry about it, provided you have clean hands. -
NitinMlk (
talk)
19:50, 15 August 2018 (UTC)reply
Accesscrawl's
assumption of bad faith &
casting of aspersions on other users are blatant violations of this project's policies. Like Onkuchia was
advised yesterday, I would advise Accesscrawl to visit
WP:ASPERSIONS. Interestingly, at their respective user pages,
Accesscrawl had Category:Wikipedians in Maharashtra, while
Onkuchia had Category:WikiProject Maharashtra members. But both of them removed Maharashtra-specific categories later on.
Anyway, I suspect that a single person is abusing multiple accounts here to avoid scrutiny & to win disputes at articles, AfDs, & AN. And I've provided proofs for the same. So, Accesscrawl, please focus on constructive editing & let a checkuser sort this case out. -
NitinMlk (
talk)
18:38, 16 August 2018 (UTC)reply
Furthermore the relation was already revealed on wiki. Gpkp has given me a hand during my early days. Everyone including
Sam Sailor (
talk·contribs) is aware about it. Who are these two other users? One editor still learning how to avoid copyvio
[13] while other editor knows what is a "WP:NOTLYRICS"
[14]. You need to make better arguments to push your POV on an AfD than making up connection anyhow. Sorry but this SPI is garbage.
Accesscrawl (
talk)
06:49, 15 August 2018 (UTC)reply
I see you are already making your SPI irrelevant since after failing to provide credible evidence of sock puppetry you have started alleging me of paid editing.
WP:COI is thataway, but hopefully that is not going to work for you either because your allegations are absurd. You are cherrypicking because I canvassed over a dozen editors to
Rajneesh. I could elaborate but it seems that you won't understand after all. Sharing only some same interests is not an evidence otherwise you should be convicted as my "strawman sock".
Accesscrawl (
talk)
03:51, 16 August 2018 (UTC)reply
I'm only going to comment up here in this report, seeing how I've already made several pointed comments in the NadirAli siteban proposal. I have noted for some time how Accesscrawl's aggressive noticeboard postings (example directly above this comment) remind me of another user, but I haven't been able to put my finger on it. I had also noted in the siteban thread how Orientls' aggressive style "reminded me of someone", and just thinking on it now how Orientls went away after he targeted me and I shot back, after which Accesscrawl turned up with more aggressive badgering of other commenters in opposition to the site ban. I also wrote in that thread about how it was interesting that several not-new accounts had turned up in that thread with their first-ever or first-in-years AN edit, and Onkuchia was among those accounts. There's something going on there that smells like
Stratford after a good rain. However, I've had exactly zero interactions with the supposed master.
Ivanvector (Talk/Edits)
19:07, 15 August 2018 (UTC)reply
My comments here are a valid reaction to an SPI filed only for winning an AfD. On AN thread, I had made two comments when I made my first edit to the section and it comes before you "shot back" anyone.
Accesscrawl (
talk)
03:17, 16 August 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment by Sam Sailor (
pinged): I have interacted first with Accesscrawl (AC) and later with Gpkp. It was I who noticed that AC had copied Gpkp's user page (
permalink to discussion with Gpkp) and his answer was a straight: Upon the copy-paste act, I need to inform you that I know the user in person, who copypasted, and we were having a discussion on updating his userpage on that day. Basic profiling based on
suggests that it is two different persons behind these two accounts. Nowhere is it more clear than when looking at how they communicate: I can not find a single case where Gpkp replies in a snarky fashion. I find no reason not to believe Gpkp's statement AGF. Where the two have edited the same articles, I struggle to see that there has been any faul intentions; it looks more like "hey, bud, could you lend me a hand with sourcing and expanding?" Although their edits to
Rajneesh in April gives me a serious case of facepalm and "what were you thinking, guys?", and I can fully understand if someone looks at that those edits and thinks "collusion" - and not a very thoughtful and succesful one. Still, I chose to see it as a failure to observe
WP:STABLE and follow
WP:CAREFUL rather than malice.The above filing tries to connect dots that are mighty far apart, look here
2008: Gpkp is created, makes 5 edits in 2010 and is then dormant until
December 2017
2014-03: Orientls is created, makes about 30 edits now and again before they start editing in
October 2017
2017-08: Onkuchia is created, they have edited regularily since
April 2018
There is zero overlap worth noticing between Gpkp and the two other accounts, cf.
Editor Interaction Analyser. OP makes a case of alleged vote stacking at AFD. The alleged master Gpkp has
zero edits at AFD ever. There is, between the three remaining accounts, an
overlap at five AFD discussions. All of these are India-related topics. But it is perhaps relevant to have a look at discussions where there are no overlap, although vote stacking would be typical:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ruhan Rajput - this would be the archetypical AFD to call upon one's socks, but I see none. Bar 1 editor, they are all regular participants at AFD.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jass Manak, yet another AFD where AC !votes "keep" as the only editor, and none of his alleged socks join the discussion to support him.
(responding to
ping) Like I've said now in many places, I'm quite strongly convinced of off-wiki collusion (meat puppetry at least) among several users on one side of a certain Arbcom-mediated dispute, involving many more users than just what is mentioned here. But that will require much more thorough investigation than what we do at SPI. If these accounts are not technically related, then I suggest this be closed.
Ivanvector (Talk/Edits)
13:49, 9 September 2018 (UTC)reply
I never took this SPI seriously. I don't even know who is Orientls and Onkuchia. The entire crux of the mentioned dispute is that when you see disruptive editors and
obviously disruptive socks conflicting on same articles and disputes, then you would also see experienced editors deal with that disruption on regular basis and that inspires more editors to do the same. It is a bad news that their efforts are sometimes subject to mudslinging and meaningless conjecture (generally by ban evading socks and
WP:1AMers), which is unfortunate. Since it happens frequently, this is why editors like me frequently monitor the affected areas through watchlist and check the activities of many other editors, to see where it is possible to intervene. This pattern was well understood by admins on a recent bogus SPI which was filed by a NOTHERE meat puppet against me and DBigXray.
[15]Accesscrawl (
talk)
17:03, 9 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Accesscrawl does have a very very low edit additional account, but it's not violating any policies.
Accesscrawl, Onkuchia, Orientls all have very high level differences which erases all concerns that they are the same persons, and therefore are Unrelated.
As Gpkp didn't come up in the search of three accounts, I'm not going to run them.