This is either sock or two friends engaging in meatpuppetry to change consensus at AFDs. If you look at the evidences separately, then it won't show much, but collectively they are showing sockpuppetry.
It must be noted that the initial SPI was filed against Astudent0, but Bbb23 asked me to file here. I never had any interaction with Papaursa.
I am interested in martial arts and have done amateur MMA. As I enter the real world I expect to have far less time to devote to Wikipedia, so my contributions will probably become much rarer.. This is similar to User:Jakejr's userpage
I love martial arts and hate clutter. Wikipedia belief: Any article without an independent source should be automatically removed.
Completed I have labored over this for days, consulted two Checkusers, other editors previously involved, and have poured over reams of contribs going back a couple of years. It is very, very possible for all three of these to be the same person: Singular focus, the time of day that edits are made line up without conflict, and the number of "coincidences" are too much to ignore, added to the fact that all three edit from the exact same geolocation, even if on different IPs. If I were to be a sockpuppet with the goal of getting away with it, this is a textbook example of how to do it right. But in this case, there is just enough ancillary evidence to show reasonable doubt, so I can't take action at this time. My educated guess is that there is a high likelihood of coordination between the users, perhaps off-wiki, which is a bit beyond the scope of this WP:SPI, but doesn't bar further action by any administrator should they decide to block these users. You might note this decision [10] if they all !vote in a single discussion. This should not be seen as proof that they aren't connected, but rather an inability to definitively connect the accounts at this time, after an exhaustive investigation. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 13:03, 12 June 2012 (UTC)Marvellous Spider -Man 16:49, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
My SPI was independent of the previous ones, and I didn't know about this page's existence. This can't be a co-incidence that many different persons came to the same conclusion. I am surprised how he managed to survive this much long time?
Mdtemp seems to edit primarily 15:00 to 22:00 UTC. Papaursa is mainly after 19:00 to 3:00 UTC. Astudent0 edits mainly from 12:00 to 18:00 UTC. I don't want to say this looks like school, home and work, but it could be school, home and work. That would explain the different ISPs. This is still ducky to me, would have to test overlaps a bit to call it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 00:18, 9 June 2012 (UTC)Marvellous Spider -Man 16:53, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
What is the logic behind three different users begin their editing from AFDs, witthin minutes after account creation? Marvellous Spider -Man 15:01, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Papaursa, Astudent0 and Jakejr; (all three) and Mdtemp - don't use WP:Twinkle to nominate articles for deletion. In spite of being here for years they don't like the automated tools as Twinkle for WP:AFD. All of them like to do nominate articles for WP:AFD manually, when these tools were made to make nominating easier.
99% of wikipedians who nominate articles at WP:AFD notify the page creator.
Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.
Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Papaursa/Archive#26 January 2012 Editors suspect that Jakejr, Astudent0 and Mdtemp are socks of Papaursa
Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Papaursa/Archive#08 June 2012 After five months, it's suspected that Astudent0 and Mdtemp are socks of Papaaursa.
Yesterday I was confirmed that User:Jakerjr and User:Astudent are the same user. Now I found this behavioral similarity independently without any prior knowledge of the previous SPIs.
@ Mike V: please, if you can take some quick action here with Jakerj and Astudent0 as your likely CU result plus the evidence given by me along with this SPI's history since 2012 is enough. Marvellous Spider -Man 16:25, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
I have no idea if User:Jakerjr and User:Astudent are the same person but I doubt it, CU certainly has confirmed nothing of the sort. They both like commenting on martial arts AfDs (that's not unique) but the only pattern I see is that both are absent for periods followed by activity and on a few occasions they overlap. Both overlap with me more than they overlap with each other which again only points to a shared interest. They do agree with each other when they do overlap but their arguments tend to be simple policy based arguments and most of the AfDs they are involved in are pretty obvious. I expect whoever deals with this will read the archived comments which again cast as much bit of doubt on their being identical as they do suggest a connection. Writing style certainly appears to be different. Peter Rehse ( talk) 11:43, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
Please separate this SPI from the SPI page of Papaursa. I filed the initial SPI against Astudent0 and Jakejr only, @ Bbb23: asked me to open SPI here as some old archives were showing. I had no interaction with Papaursa. My original SPI was to prove that Astudent0 was socking with Jakejr account. And that suspicion is confirmed with CU result.
Papaursa is a different editor, but WP:MEAT can be possible, due to past investigations.
Check users and administrators have more experience. I have given the links before the quote. They won't get misguided. Marvellous Spider -Man 04:26, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Martial arts/archive will show the overwhelming number of delete results. If you blindly voted delete on every martial arts article, you'd be marked wrong only about 10% of the time. I didn't, but if you check the overlap between PRehse and myself I suspect you'll see a lot of overlap and matching votes and you can look at his SPI to see how that discussion went. Most of the SPIs I've been involved with were started by editors since banned for sockpuppeting and I've learned that deletionism makes you a big target on WP. I keep editing less and less and taking more and more breaks because I'm tired of all the flak I take for trying to be conscientious. I learned a long time ago that what other editors do is out of my hands, so I edit from home and try to leave the histrionics to others. Papaursa ( talk) 00:04, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
The following accounts are
Likely to each other:
Administrator note On behavioural evidence Astudent0, Mdtemp, and
Mdtemp Jakejr seem to be unambiguously the same person, and the "Likely" CheckUser result for two of them supports that too, so I have blocked those three accounts. The behavioural evidence for Papaursa also seems to me very convincing, but I have to take into account the negative CheckUser result. Bbb23 and I have more than once in the past disagreed about the significance of CU data. Broadly speaking, Bbb23 tends, it seems to me, to regard CU data a pretty conclusive, and is sometimes willing to let it over-rule significant behavioural evidence, whereas I tend to attach more weight to the idea that
CheckUser is not magic
pixie dust: that is to say that I regard CU data as just one of the many pieces of evidence we have available, not necessarily to be always given more weight than any one other piece of evidence. Nevertheless, since there is a negative CU result to be considered, I am not at present blocking Papaursa, and will wait and see whether anyone else has anything to say about it.
I have read the various comments from Papaursa suggesting differences between his/her editing and that of the other accounts, and I do not find any of them convincing. For example, consider the statement that the pages where there is an overlap constitute a small proportion of Papaursa's total editing. However, that is a common situation with sockpuppeteers: one uses multiple accounts on the same page only when one feels a need to, because, for example, one fears that a discussion will go against one's views, and most of the time one uses only one account. Then we have various statements which use the argument that the overlap in editing is entirely explained by common interests. However, while common interests might explain why several accounts edit pages on the same topic, the similarity goes much further than just editing on the same topic: there are numerous other similarities. For example, all the accounts edit to an amazing extent AfD discussions more than everything else put together, more of a concentration in that one area than I can ever remember seeing from one editor before in all my years on Wikipedia, and here we have not one but four editors with this singular specialisation in AfDs, and they also have numerous other similarities, such as all specialising in martial arts. There are also similarities in the way they comment in those discussions, and so on. We have the statement "I've seen these editors disagree with one another on certain AFDs which brings a strong argument that they're independent editors": no, it brings only a weak argument that they're independent editors, because anyone with any significant experience of sockpuppet investigations will know that having one's sockpuppets sometimes disagree with one another is one of the commonest tricks used to throw suspicion off one's sockpuppetry, especially in cases where, as here, an editor has in the past been repeatedly suspected of sockpuppetry.
In the few cases where the editors edits something other than a martial arts AfD, they pick the same page to edit more often than one might expect from chance. For example, Papaursa and Astudent0 both edited the article Seidō juku. What is more, out of all the years they have been editing, they both edited that page within two days of one another. Yes, that is in the area of interest which they both share, but for two editors whose editing is so heavily concentrated on AfDs to both have one of their infrequent article edits within a couple of days of one another, and both happen to choose the same one out of the hundreds of martial arts articles they could have chosen is a striking coincidence. Not a big enough coincidence to prove anything on its own, but it's just one more of numerous coincidences that all add up.
To me, apart from things which have already been said above, a very striking thing is Papaursa's comment beginning "I don't know what the latest CU found, but if it showed we're no longer close geographically it would mean we can't be the same person". Why should he or she have any reason to think that the geographic location of the other accounts has changed? If he/she knows nothing about the other accounts, then it is difficult to see why he/she would come up with that. If, however, he/she knows all about the other accounts and where their editing geolocates to, and knows full well that it is somewhere different from where the Papaursa account geolocates to, then that is exactly the sort of thing he/she might bring up.
As I said above, the behavioural evidence strongly suggests to me that Papaursa is the same person as the other accounts. I have briefly indicated some of the reasons why I find his/her defence statements unconvincing. I cannot completely dismiss the negative CheckUser results, but they don't prove anything, as there are numerous ways that one editor can arrange for different accounts to show up as unrelated to a CheckUser. We should also bear in mind that Papaursa knows that an earlier CheckUser showed a geographical connection to the other accounts, and therefore would have a reason for finding ways to make such a connection invisible. I would be pleased if one or more other administrators would comment on how convincing they find the behavioural evidence.
My final comment is that it is now almost seven weeks since Bbb23's CheckUser report, and the fact that in that much time no administrator has seen fit to close the case as "no sockpuppetry" does suggest that I may not be the only one who thinks that the negative CU report does not settle the matter. The editor who uses the pseudonym " JamesBWatson" ( talk) 12:45, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
Clerk note: I've been looking into this independently and poring over editing statistics all afternoon, and I find myself coming to the same conclusions as
JamesBWatson. What's especially striking to me is that all four of these accounts (Papaursa, Astudent0, Jakejr and Mdtemp, to be clear) not only share a focus on martial arts as Papaursa has suggested, they share a focus on martial arts deletion. Here's what I mean:
This is either sock or two friends engaging in meatpuppetry to change consensus at AFDs. If you look at the evidences separately, then it won't show much, but collectively they are showing sockpuppetry.
It must be noted that the initial SPI was filed against Astudent0, but Bbb23 asked me to file here. I never had any interaction with Papaursa.
I am interested in martial arts and have done amateur MMA. As I enter the real world I expect to have far less time to devote to Wikipedia, so my contributions will probably become much rarer.. This is similar to User:Jakejr's userpage
I love martial arts and hate clutter. Wikipedia belief: Any article without an independent source should be automatically removed.
Completed I have labored over this for days, consulted two Checkusers, other editors previously involved, and have poured over reams of contribs going back a couple of years. It is very, very possible for all three of these to be the same person: Singular focus, the time of day that edits are made line up without conflict, and the number of "coincidences" are too much to ignore, added to the fact that all three edit from the exact same geolocation, even if on different IPs. If I were to be a sockpuppet with the goal of getting away with it, this is a textbook example of how to do it right. But in this case, there is just enough ancillary evidence to show reasonable doubt, so I can't take action at this time. My educated guess is that there is a high likelihood of coordination between the users, perhaps off-wiki, which is a bit beyond the scope of this WP:SPI, but doesn't bar further action by any administrator should they decide to block these users. You might note this decision [10] if they all !vote in a single discussion. This should not be seen as proof that they aren't connected, but rather an inability to definitively connect the accounts at this time, after an exhaustive investigation. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 13:03, 12 June 2012 (UTC)Marvellous Spider -Man 16:49, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
My SPI was independent of the previous ones, and I didn't know about this page's existence. This can't be a co-incidence that many different persons came to the same conclusion. I am surprised how he managed to survive this much long time?
Mdtemp seems to edit primarily 15:00 to 22:00 UTC. Papaursa is mainly after 19:00 to 3:00 UTC. Astudent0 edits mainly from 12:00 to 18:00 UTC. I don't want to say this looks like school, home and work, but it could be school, home and work. That would explain the different ISPs. This is still ducky to me, would have to test overlaps a bit to call it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 00:18, 9 June 2012 (UTC)Marvellous Spider -Man 16:53, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
What is the logic behind three different users begin their editing from AFDs, witthin minutes after account creation? Marvellous Spider -Man 15:01, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Papaursa, Astudent0 and Jakejr; (all three) and Mdtemp - don't use WP:Twinkle to nominate articles for deletion. In spite of being here for years they don't like the automated tools as Twinkle for WP:AFD. All of them like to do nominate articles for WP:AFD manually, when these tools were made to make nominating easier.
99% of wikipedians who nominate articles at WP:AFD notify the page creator.
Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.
Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Papaursa/Archive#26 January 2012 Editors suspect that Jakejr, Astudent0 and Mdtemp are socks of Papaursa
Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Papaursa/Archive#08 June 2012 After five months, it's suspected that Astudent0 and Mdtemp are socks of Papaaursa.
Yesterday I was confirmed that User:Jakerjr and User:Astudent are the same user. Now I found this behavioral similarity independently without any prior knowledge of the previous SPIs.
@ Mike V: please, if you can take some quick action here with Jakerj and Astudent0 as your likely CU result plus the evidence given by me along with this SPI's history since 2012 is enough. Marvellous Spider -Man 16:25, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
I have no idea if User:Jakerjr and User:Astudent are the same person but I doubt it, CU certainly has confirmed nothing of the sort. They both like commenting on martial arts AfDs (that's not unique) but the only pattern I see is that both are absent for periods followed by activity and on a few occasions they overlap. Both overlap with me more than they overlap with each other which again only points to a shared interest. They do agree with each other when they do overlap but their arguments tend to be simple policy based arguments and most of the AfDs they are involved in are pretty obvious. I expect whoever deals with this will read the archived comments which again cast as much bit of doubt on their being identical as they do suggest a connection. Writing style certainly appears to be different. Peter Rehse ( talk) 11:43, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
Please separate this SPI from the SPI page of Papaursa. I filed the initial SPI against Astudent0 and Jakejr only, @ Bbb23: asked me to open SPI here as some old archives were showing. I had no interaction with Papaursa. My original SPI was to prove that Astudent0 was socking with Jakejr account. And that suspicion is confirmed with CU result.
Papaursa is a different editor, but WP:MEAT can be possible, due to past investigations.
Check users and administrators have more experience. I have given the links before the quote. They won't get misguided. Marvellous Spider -Man 04:26, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Martial arts/archive will show the overwhelming number of delete results. If you blindly voted delete on every martial arts article, you'd be marked wrong only about 10% of the time. I didn't, but if you check the overlap between PRehse and myself I suspect you'll see a lot of overlap and matching votes and you can look at his SPI to see how that discussion went. Most of the SPIs I've been involved with were started by editors since banned for sockpuppeting and I've learned that deletionism makes you a big target on WP. I keep editing less and less and taking more and more breaks because I'm tired of all the flak I take for trying to be conscientious. I learned a long time ago that what other editors do is out of my hands, so I edit from home and try to leave the histrionics to others. Papaursa ( talk) 00:04, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
The following accounts are
Likely to each other:
Administrator note On behavioural evidence Astudent0, Mdtemp, and
Mdtemp Jakejr seem to be unambiguously the same person, and the "Likely" CheckUser result for two of them supports that too, so I have blocked those three accounts. The behavioural evidence for Papaursa also seems to me very convincing, but I have to take into account the negative CheckUser result. Bbb23 and I have more than once in the past disagreed about the significance of CU data. Broadly speaking, Bbb23 tends, it seems to me, to regard CU data a pretty conclusive, and is sometimes willing to let it over-rule significant behavioural evidence, whereas I tend to attach more weight to the idea that
CheckUser is not magic
pixie dust: that is to say that I regard CU data as just one of the many pieces of evidence we have available, not necessarily to be always given more weight than any one other piece of evidence. Nevertheless, since there is a negative CU result to be considered, I am not at present blocking Papaursa, and will wait and see whether anyone else has anything to say about it.
I have read the various comments from Papaursa suggesting differences between his/her editing and that of the other accounts, and I do not find any of them convincing. For example, consider the statement that the pages where there is an overlap constitute a small proportion of Papaursa's total editing. However, that is a common situation with sockpuppeteers: one uses multiple accounts on the same page only when one feels a need to, because, for example, one fears that a discussion will go against one's views, and most of the time one uses only one account. Then we have various statements which use the argument that the overlap in editing is entirely explained by common interests. However, while common interests might explain why several accounts edit pages on the same topic, the similarity goes much further than just editing on the same topic: there are numerous other similarities. For example, all the accounts edit to an amazing extent AfD discussions more than everything else put together, more of a concentration in that one area than I can ever remember seeing from one editor before in all my years on Wikipedia, and here we have not one but four editors with this singular specialisation in AfDs, and they also have numerous other similarities, such as all specialising in martial arts. There are also similarities in the way they comment in those discussions, and so on. We have the statement "I've seen these editors disagree with one another on certain AFDs which brings a strong argument that they're independent editors": no, it brings only a weak argument that they're independent editors, because anyone with any significant experience of sockpuppet investigations will know that having one's sockpuppets sometimes disagree with one another is one of the commonest tricks used to throw suspicion off one's sockpuppetry, especially in cases where, as here, an editor has in the past been repeatedly suspected of sockpuppetry.
In the few cases where the editors edits something other than a martial arts AfD, they pick the same page to edit more often than one might expect from chance. For example, Papaursa and Astudent0 both edited the article Seidō juku. What is more, out of all the years they have been editing, they both edited that page within two days of one another. Yes, that is in the area of interest which they both share, but for two editors whose editing is so heavily concentrated on AfDs to both have one of their infrequent article edits within a couple of days of one another, and both happen to choose the same one out of the hundreds of martial arts articles they could have chosen is a striking coincidence. Not a big enough coincidence to prove anything on its own, but it's just one more of numerous coincidences that all add up.
To me, apart from things which have already been said above, a very striking thing is Papaursa's comment beginning "I don't know what the latest CU found, but if it showed we're no longer close geographically it would mean we can't be the same person". Why should he or she have any reason to think that the geographic location of the other accounts has changed? If he/she knows nothing about the other accounts, then it is difficult to see why he/she would come up with that. If, however, he/she knows all about the other accounts and where their editing geolocates to, and knows full well that it is somewhere different from where the Papaursa account geolocates to, then that is exactly the sort of thing he/she might bring up.
As I said above, the behavioural evidence strongly suggests to me that Papaursa is the same person as the other accounts. I have briefly indicated some of the reasons why I find his/her defence statements unconvincing. I cannot completely dismiss the negative CheckUser results, but they don't prove anything, as there are numerous ways that one editor can arrange for different accounts to show up as unrelated to a CheckUser. We should also bear in mind that Papaursa knows that an earlier CheckUser showed a geographical connection to the other accounts, and therefore would have a reason for finding ways to make such a connection invisible. I would be pleased if one or more other administrators would comment on how convincing they find the behavioural evidence.
My final comment is that it is now almost seven weeks since Bbb23's CheckUser report, and the fact that in that much time no administrator has seen fit to close the case as "no sockpuppetry" does suggest that I may not be the only one who thinks that the negative CU report does not settle the matter. The editor who uses the pseudonym " JamesBWatson" ( talk) 12:45, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
Clerk note: I've been looking into this independently and poring over editing statistics all afternoon, and I find myself coming to the same conclusions as
JamesBWatson. What's especially striking to me is that all four of these accounts (Papaursa, Astudent0, Jakejr and Mdtemp, to be clear) not only share a focus on martial arts as Papaursa has suggested, they share a focus on martial arts deletion. Here's what I mean: