In order to remain listed at Wikipedia:Requests for comment, at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this user and have failed. This must involve the same dispute, not different disputes. The persons complaining must provide evidence of their efforts, and each of them must certify it by signing this page with ~~~~. If this does not happen within 48 hours of the creation of this dispute page (which was: {insert UTC timestamp with ~~~~~}), the page will be deleted. The current date and time is: 01:06, 20 July 2024 (UTC).
This is a summary written by users who dispute this user's conduct. Users signing other sections should not edit here.
Mr Tan has persistently and stubbornly disrupted editing and personally attacked other editors. His position is that he alone is able to judge the acceptability of English style, grammar, etc., despite the fact that his English is very weak. He has made innumerable edits which have turned good English into bad, sometimes on a very large scale. He has so far refused to listen to any of the editors who have tried to point out his errors, and to moderate his behaviour. This Request for Comment is now our only recourse.
(It should be noted that, since this RfC was opened, Mr Tan's behaviour has continued unabated, and in fact has probably worsened.)
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This is a summary written by the user whose conduct is disputed, or by other users who think that the dispute is unjustified and that the above summary is biased or incomplete.
Some of the content comes from [21] as I find it relevant for the response
In the first place, you have shown unsociable behaviour at the very start of our talks which made our mutual misunderstandings build up as each stage of the discussion "level up".
Secondly, I would like to point out that ignoring one's comments is not only rude, but it will also cause a wrong turn decision without the opposite party's correction. (You, however, have done that many times). This is really making my life difficult–If I edit after consulting him but in the case that he did not respond, he will get indulged in an edit war. See Talk:Zanskar on his attitude. I just can't understand him-despite explanations, he threatened blocks against me and said that I am conducting "near-vandalism" in User Talk:BrokenSegue. If he is keen enough to judge my explanations (In which he didn't) on my reasons for the edits on grammar, surely such a thing would not have happened. (This sort of attitude did not show out in other articles --see Nakhi for example)
Thirdly, I admit that many of my works look like a piece of shit gramatically and structurally--this is the reason of my frequent peer-review of many of articles written by me.
Although I welcome help like people from him with gramatically good english, the problem of your approach towards articles--he seem to have a very negative approach towards the content of many articles, the stiffest being Zanskar.
I hope that I get this message very clear----Mel Etitis did not make his explanations clear enough and also being partially too arrogant--despite repeated reminders, several messages were not responded (Is this a proper user conduct for an admin?)
Fourthly--he did not even make a comment on this very (original version in my talk page) on this debate. This will make many users who are currently commenting my user conduct--may have an mistaken interpretation of what it is supposed to be.
Fifthly, concerning about the content dispute about the Zanskar article–all I want is him to give me some time and patience to let me copyedit–despite appeals, still he repeatedly reverted my changes before I could complete the whole process (it may be [ [22]]). Is he being reasonable?
Sixth, Mel had once stated and "threatened" arbitration in the sense that I can continue to contribute content to articles, but not copyedit, just by saying that my english is too lousy and repeatedly reverting nearly every edit of mine especially in Zanskar, the stiffest (and most intense) of being is between late May and Early June [23].
But again this is a question that leaves being properly defined. A person's standard of english maybe poor, but this may not be the case in the future. Analyse it---A person with poor english may not be able to detect his mistakes well--I"ll apologise for any "casualties". I"ll encourage him if he finds any mistakes in my grammar (but it seems strange towards his attitude in Zanskar).
Last, but not least, to me, all the above reflects that either he does not have an analytical mind or, he has a very poor sense of interaction with me (especially with my facts), or he is simply too stubborn (notice his behaviour between Zanskar and other article that we have co-edited). Take note--I'm fighting on this dispute just for the sake of the goodwill of wikipedia (my loved-place) and the right of my opinion--I have totally nothing to gain, and wikipedia is not at all a battleground. Is this all Ad hominem?
If this dispute--having a two-month long history gets nowhere, I have no choice but to consider leaving.
With that, I shall conclude my response--goodbye.
I also have one more point to add: Mel Etitis has a tendency to criticise people unanimously--see Talk:Zanskar for example. Furthermore, he insists on his way, rather than elaborating on his reasons on his acts (edits and reverts). Is this a proper user conduct? I may not know wikipedian rules very well, but it seems that Mel does not totally deserves the credits that he have.
Nor would I find anything wrong with telling Mr Jimmy Wales about this case (I had done it before); I don't see why these people merely having the impression that I'm toying his talk page to vent his anger. Too bad he doesn't respond to my message, but that doesn't warrant Mel to spread rumours to talk bad about me.
You have been understating about every action that I have done. Do not think that I use a word blindly---I always check a dictionary upon every word that I use, yet I do not know the meaning. Analysation is the critical factor to develop mutual understanding.
All I could say that I am extremely thankful for all the efforts of JMBell in resolving this dispute.
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Hey, what is the big fuss? I only made two reverts, and explained that bad maps can be misleading. Now you have corrected them, Thanks. But what is the matter? I am satisfied, you are satisfied. Why spur the big fuss?
Mr Tan 13:09, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hey, what is the big fuss, Mr Bartus? I only made two reverts, and explained that bad maps can be misleading. Now you have corrected them, Thanks. But what is the matter? I am satisfied, you are satisfied. Why spur the big fuss? And don't be too harsh. I am at your son's age--fourteen to fifteen, approximately. Thanks.
Mr Tan 13:10, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Good luck working with him - I'd love to update and correct the Bae Yong Joon page, but know that if I do, he'll be back to his old tricks again. I'm not that patient of a woman...so again, I wish you luck. Fabshelly 08:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC)fabshelly
All signed comments and talk not related to a vote or endorsement, should be directed to this page's discussion page.
In order to remain listed at Wikipedia:Requests for comment, at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this user and have failed. This must involve the same dispute, not different disputes. The persons complaining must provide evidence of their efforts, and each of them must certify it by signing this page with ~~~~. If this does not happen within 48 hours of the creation of this dispute page (which was: {insert UTC timestamp with ~~~~~}), the page will be deleted. The current date and time is: 01:06, 20 July 2024 (UTC).
This is a summary written by users who dispute this user's conduct. Users signing other sections should not edit here.
Mr Tan has persistently and stubbornly disrupted editing and personally attacked other editors. His position is that he alone is able to judge the acceptability of English style, grammar, etc., despite the fact that his English is very weak. He has made innumerable edits which have turned good English into bad, sometimes on a very large scale. He has so far refused to listen to any of the editors who have tried to point out his errors, and to moderate his behaviour. This Request for Comment is now our only recourse.
(It should be noted that, since this RfC was opened, Mr Tan's behaviour has continued unabated, and in fact has probably worsened.)
(provide diffs and links)
{list the policies that apply to the disputed conduct}
(provide diffs and links)
(sign with ~~~~)
(sign with ~~~~)
This is a summary written by the user whose conduct is disputed, or by other users who think that the dispute is unjustified and that the above summary is biased or incomplete.
Some of the content comes from [21] as I find it relevant for the response
In the first place, you have shown unsociable behaviour at the very start of our talks which made our mutual misunderstandings build up as each stage of the discussion "level up".
Secondly, I would like to point out that ignoring one's comments is not only rude, but it will also cause a wrong turn decision without the opposite party's correction. (You, however, have done that many times). This is really making my life difficult–If I edit after consulting him but in the case that he did not respond, he will get indulged in an edit war. See Talk:Zanskar on his attitude. I just can't understand him-despite explanations, he threatened blocks against me and said that I am conducting "near-vandalism" in User Talk:BrokenSegue. If he is keen enough to judge my explanations (In which he didn't) on my reasons for the edits on grammar, surely such a thing would not have happened. (This sort of attitude did not show out in other articles --see Nakhi for example)
Thirdly, I admit that many of my works look like a piece of shit gramatically and structurally--this is the reason of my frequent peer-review of many of articles written by me.
Although I welcome help like people from him with gramatically good english, the problem of your approach towards articles--he seem to have a very negative approach towards the content of many articles, the stiffest being Zanskar.
I hope that I get this message very clear----Mel Etitis did not make his explanations clear enough and also being partially too arrogant--despite repeated reminders, several messages were not responded (Is this a proper user conduct for an admin?)
Fourthly--he did not even make a comment on this very (original version in my talk page) on this debate. This will make many users who are currently commenting my user conduct--may have an mistaken interpretation of what it is supposed to be.
Fifthly, concerning about the content dispute about the Zanskar article–all I want is him to give me some time and patience to let me copyedit–despite appeals, still he repeatedly reverted my changes before I could complete the whole process (it may be [ [22]]). Is he being reasonable?
Sixth, Mel had once stated and "threatened" arbitration in the sense that I can continue to contribute content to articles, but not copyedit, just by saying that my english is too lousy and repeatedly reverting nearly every edit of mine especially in Zanskar, the stiffest (and most intense) of being is between late May and Early June [23].
But again this is a question that leaves being properly defined. A person's standard of english maybe poor, but this may not be the case in the future. Analyse it---A person with poor english may not be able to detect his mistakes well--I"ll apologise for any "casualties". I"ll encourage him if he finds any mistakes in my grammar (but it seems strange towards his attitude in Zanskar).
Last, but not least, to me, all the above reflects that either he does not have an analytical mind or, he has a very poor sense of interaction with me (especially with my facts), or he is simply too stubborn (notice his behaviour between Zanskar and other article that we have co-edited). Take note--I'm fighting on this dispute just for the sake of the goodwill of wikipedia (my loved-place) and the right of my opinion--I have totally nothing to gain, and wikipedia is not at all a battleground. Is this all Ad hominem?
If this dispute--having a two-month long history gets nowhere, I have no choice but to consider leaving.
With that, I shall conclude my response--goodbye.
I also have one more point to add: Mel Etitis has a tendency to criticise people unanimously--see Talk:Zanskar for example. Furthermore, he insists on his way, rather than elaborating on his reasons on his acts (edits and reverts). Is this a proper user conduct? I may not know wikipedian rules very well, but it seems that Mel does not totally deserves the credits that he have.
Nor would I find anything wrong with telling Mr Jimmy Wales about this case (I had done it before); I don't see why these people merely having the impression that I'm toying his talk page to vent his anger. Too bad he doesn't respond to my message, but that doesn't warrant Mel to spread rumours to talk bad about me.
You have been understating about every action that I have done. Do not think that I use a word blindly---I always check a dictionary upon every word that I use, yet I do not know the meaning. Analysation is the critical factor to develop mutual understanding.
All I could say that I am extremely thankful for all the efforts of JMBell in resolving this dispute.
{Add summary here, but you must use the endorsement section below to sign. Users who edit or endorse this summary should not edit the other summaries.}
Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~):
This is a summary written by users not directly involved with the dispute but who would like to add an outside view of the dispute.
{Add summary here, but you must use the endorsement section below to sign. Users who edit or endorse this summary should not edit the other summaries.}
Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~):
Hey, what is the big fuss? I only made two reverts, and explained that bad maps can be misleading. Now you have corrected them, Thanks. But what is the matter? I am satisfied, you are satisfied. Why spur the big fuss?
Mr Tan 13:09, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hey, what is the big fuss, Mr Bartus? I only made two reverts, and explained that bad maps can be misleading. Now you have corrected them, Thanks. But what is the matter? I am satisfied, you are satisfied. Why spur the big fuss? And don't be too harsh. I am at your son's age--fourteen to fifteen, approximately. Thanks.
Mr Tan 13:10, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Good luck working with him - I'd love to update and correct the Bae Yong Joon page, but know that if I do, he'll be back to his old tricks again. I'm not that patient of a woman...so again, I wish you luck. Fabshelly 08:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC)fabshelly
All signed comments and talk not related to a vote or endorsement, should be directed to this page's discussion page.