Anyone, whether directly involved or not, may add evidence to this page. Please make a header for your evidence and sign your comments with your name.
When placing evidence here, please be considerate of the arbitrators and be concise. Long, rambling, or stream-of-conciousness rants are not helpful.
As such, it is extremely important that you use the prescribed format. Submitted evidence should include a link to the actual page diff; links to the page itself are not sufficient. For example, to cite the edit by Mennonot to the article Anomalous phenomenon adding a link to Hundredth Monkey use this form: [http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Anomalous_phenomenon&diff=5587219&oldid=5584644] [1].
This page is not for general discussion - for that, see talk page.
Please make a section for your evidence and add evidence only in your own section. Please limit your evidence to a maximum 1000 words and 100 diffs, a much shorter, concise presentation is more likely to be effective. Please focus on the issues raised in the complaint and answer and on diffs which illustrate behavior which relates to the issues.
If you disagree with some evidence you see here, please cite the evidence in your own section and provide counter-evidence, or an explanation of why the evidence is misleading. Do not edit within the evidence section of any other user.
Be aware that the Arbitrators may at times rework this page to try to make it more coherent. If you are a participant in the case or a third party, please don't try to refactor the page, let the Arbitrators do it. If you object to evidence which is inserted by other participants or third parties please cite the evidence and voice your objections within your own section of the page. It is especially important to not remove evidence presented by others. If something is put in the wrong place, please leave it for the arbitrators to move.
A general comment for the ArbCom, I think it would be a good idea to go through the talk archives of government of Australia (not necessarily in any detail) to see how frustrating it is for other edits to deal with Skyrings edits against concensus.-- nixie 01:56, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The talk archives of Government of Australia show that I take care to present the views of authorities on this subject, not my own, and that cites are provided for my article edits. The charges of original research and POV-pushing are unfounded.
This is a case of "Wikipedia-rage". User:Adam Carr gives the impression that he can abuse other editors freely, he need not provide sources, and he can whistle up help to enforce his threats and bullying. I showed a link to the Commonwealth's own hardcopy government directory describing the Governor-General as the Head of State. Adam gave a response demonstrating that he considers himself the ultimate authority. This view is unacceptable in a Wikipedia editor, as is the idea that truth is found by calling up shills and holding a vote.
The dispute centres on Adam's populist view that the Queen is Australia's sole head of state. There are three distinct views on this amongst constitutional scholars, with the Prime Minister and Professor George Winterton holding alternate views, and any edit stating that the Queen is the sole head of state is POV.
[41] and subsequent.
I concur completely with Petaholmes's submission. My observation regarding Skyring's contributions is that they have been based on wholescale misrepresentations of facts. The above evidence given by him shows a clear evidence of that. Turnbull did not say that Australia is a republic, nor does his words suggest that, as any even slight acquaintence with his writings shows. What he actually means, and what he is universally interpreted to mean, is that Australia, given that Australia is a state in which sovereignty derives from the people, should not have an hereditary monarchy, as that is inconsistent with its status of popular sovereignty. Its status should be that of a republic, and abolishing the monarchy would make it a republic. He never said, and is never anywhere interpreted to say, that Australia is currently a republic. Skyring misrepresented what he said and based clearly factually wrong edits on that misrepresentation.
While one misrepresentation could be categorised as indicative of confusion on the part of the contributor. Constant continual misrepresentation of source after source after source has been the hallmark of Skyring's contributions. It is hard after reading the scale of the misrepresentations (some of them jawdropping in their audacity - as anyone with even the slighest elementary knowledge of laws, political science and constitutions knows, one simply cannot be a republic if one is a constitutional monarchy, for example. It is like saying one is a cat and a dog) to conclude that the mispresentations were just a cynical game to deface an encylopaedia article with patent nonsense just to annoy other users. Users invariably started by pointing out the errors in his writings, presuming it was a genuine mistake. However after a couple of attempts, everyone, one by one, came to conclude that the edits weren't genuine but were just a cynical game of vandalism to see if he could get away with it.
A classic example of his gross distortions of documents occurs in his evidence above, where he writes
It is actually written in black and white in the constitution.
Every Australian law starts off with the line "BE IT THEREFORE enacted by the Queen, the Senate and the House of Representatives of Australia . . ."
I could go on (we all could go on and on) pointing out the fundamental errors of fact, interpretation, analysis, context, relevance, etc in his contributions. Users have filled six archives pointing out his errors. Even here he gets elementary facts wrong (how can someone so convinced that he is a constitutional expert not even know what the opening line of every Australian law is?) His response invariably is to mispresent sources, quote comments out of context and demand evidence to prove things that have been repeatedly proven, while refusing to offer evidence in return, and when finally he offers some evidence, it turns out to mean the exact opposite of what it says it means, or that the source is not compatable to other sources given in terms of credibility, eg, while others could quote primary documents, legal documents, letters patent, statements by Attorneys-General, his "evidence" in one instance was something written somewhere by some junior lawyer.
And, though users have been queuing to point it out to him, in legal terminology de facto does not mean is, it means in general terms acts in reality as. So he continually misrepresents a careful phrase by Professor George Winterton about how the Queen is the head of state and the Governor-General is de facto head of state (ie, acts as, not is) as meaning George is saying Australia that Australia has two heads of state. Nobody familiar with George's writings, with what he has said, and with the way he said it, interprets George's words that way. He explicitly says Australia has one head of state, not two. Every major academic, every major lawyer, every constitutional expert, everyone with a grasp of elementary use of english constitutional law, and everyone on Wikipedia but Skyring says he is completely misunderstanding at best, deliberately mispresenting at worst, George's words. (BTW I know George and know for a fact that his views are the opposite of what Skyring says.)
To see the full story, as Robert says above, you need to read the archives of the debate, in particular Archive 6. Quite frankly accepting Skyring's edits, on the basis of flimsy evidence and dubious interpretations, when all the convincing evidence points in the other direction, would have been the equivalent of giving Emperor Norton I equal billing as Abraham Lincoln in pages on who was the US head of state in the 1860s, on the basis that a few people (tongue-in-cheek) called Norton His Imperial Majesty and that the word Emperor is on his tombstone!!!
Because I am refusing to play his verbal games (as have others; everyone at this stage has given up even trying to communicate with him after past negative experiences) Skyring has decided to 'up the ante' by targeting me for abuse. He has spent most of his time doing nothing other than editing anything I edit, even marginally, no matter what the topic, and make changes, some of them as minimal as changing a quotation mark, and leave personal abuse.
For example, focusing on my Irish origins, onto a page I had edited (marginally) he wrote
Talk:Irish referendum on the European Constitution
According to [1] ( https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/po.html), Portugal is bigger in area and population than Ireland [2] ( https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ei.html). I don't think too many people would say that Portugal is a major European state. Nice try. Pete 23:13, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
On Adam's talk page added the following. [51]
In one case, Donald Regan I had only entered the page to fix a text box. Yet Skyring suddenly developed an interest in Ronald Reagan's former Chief of Staff, having suddenly developed an issue in the Irish presidency, Irish presidential ceremonial, crown jewels, the European Constitution, Dublin Corporation, journalistic terminology, and even a type of car (which I just happened to have visited to make a minor change when setting up a link!!! [52]), all miraculously just after I had written something about them.
Some of it is even comical, like his 'reporting' me to an Irish editor for supposed poor english in an article. [53] The user in question pointed out to him that (a) there was nothing much wrong with the article, (b) all I had done in the article was add a template, and (c) the user himself was in fact the author of the article, not me! [54]
Where I was discussing something with other users, he would suddenly appear to add a snide comment. [55] [56]
As an example of his campaign of harrassment, take a look below at just some of his contributions. I have bold italicised the pages I had not touched or which are not about me. Everything unbolded I had edited recently on wikipedia just before Skyring's sudden interest in them too, even if on occasions only in a minor way, like adding a frame to a picture. The list is in the order of his contributions. Nothing has been edited out of the list. This is the list of all the articles he has "worked" on (in a manner of speaking) over the last few days.
* 06:13, 14 Jun 2005 (hist) (diff) m Australia (Reverted edits by 144.139.33.132 to last version by Cyberjunkie) * 05:29, 14 Jun 2005 (hist) (diff) m Moon landing (top) [rollback]'
13:35, 13 Jun 2005 (hist) (diff) m Áras an Uachtaráin (Å®Origins)
* 09:43, 13 Jun 2005 (hist) (diff) Talk:Port Arthur Massacre (ŮConspiracy theory, firearm control...) (top) [rollback] * 09:38, 13 Jun 2005 (hist) (diff) Port Arthur Massacre (Commonwealth has no power over firearms, SLRs not banned outright)
03:07, 13 Jun 2005 (hist) (diff) m President of Ireland (ŮOfficial residence, anthem, style and address)
Meanwhile anonymous individuals just happen to be appearing either to defend Skyring (only to disappear and never to be heard of again) [57] or to make allegations against me [58].
I have no wish to have any dealings with Skyring, whom I regard as troll. He seems to have taken offence at my refusal to play his wordgames on talk pages. Having made it quite clear what I think of him I have no intention of having anything to do with this individual. When he gets bored trying to intimidate and harrass me, he will no doubt move on to someone else. Individuals like that should not be on Wikipedia.
GENERAL
I have been asked to cast an eye over this matter. The material is in a format reminiscent of “hypertext” with its forest of links. It is hard to follow, although the “signatures” aid in understanding the flow of discussion. It would be extremely difficult to present this in court in a raw form.
The “Wikipedia” looks to be competently done in the main, however it is riddled with errors and inconsistencies when examined in detail. Top marks for a good idea, but a FAIL if the intention is to produce a reliable reference work.
PARTIES TO THE DISPUTE
On reading this copious material I wish that I was being paid to do so and that I could examine the parties in court where they could be compelled to answer questions. It would be preferable for these people to sit together around a table and discuss their issues face to face. By debating from behind a shield of Internet anonymity, they say things they would not say in real life.
“PETE”
One of the quickest ways to antagonise an impartial audience is to be snide, sarcastic and “smart”. When used with hostile listeners, it is a strategy of failure, regardless of whether the evidence is reliable and factual. Nitpicking and triumphantly exposing errors are not going to win over the good will of those who do not relish admitting error. A tick for failing to respond to abuse and provocation. Good research, poorly presented.
“ADAM”
This witness would be in contempt of court in short order. Open hostility, threatening behaviour, inability to recognise higher authority, inability to present cites, partisan encouragement of other parties etc. The charge of “Wikipedia-rage” as an analogy to “road-rage” is apposite.
“JTDIRL”
Any competent lawyer would give this witness an extremely uncomfortable time in cross-examination. His ignorance of the very material in which he presents himself as an expert is plain. For example he is unfamiliar with the leaders of the Australian monarchists and their public statements made during the 1999 referendum debate. His material on Irish affairs is colourful but irrelevant. He refers to cites which are not provided. Some statements are gobbledygook: “George quite normally draws the distinction between the de jure and de facto roles, as would any professional lawyer. However he goes further and qualifies even the de facto claim, lest anyone misunderstand him as claiming there are two heads of states, when he makes it clear that there aren't, by saying that even the de facto role is restricted internally within the Commonwealth, by speaking of the Commonwealth, but not of Australia. In other words, the Governor-General acts as, not is, the head of state, but only within the constitutional and legal framework as defined by constitutional and statute law, as well as Letters Patent, within the structures of the Commonwealth. He does only what legally he can do internally. But in no sense, even de facto is he the embodiment of Australia, merely of the governmental structures internally of the Commonwealth.”
OTHER PARTICIPANTS
No other parties are as prolific and prolix as these three. Several positions are exhibited, ranging from those strident in their declarations, reminiscent of those who stand at the back of crowds to call out in support of their champion, to those who seek calm and rational consensus.
THE GOVERNOR-GENERAL AS HEAD OF STATE
Nobody who saw Sir William Deane at the service for the victims of the Swiss Canyoning tragedy, or officiating at the opening of the 2000 Olympic Games, would claim that he was not the embodiment of Australia and Australian values, merely of “internal governmental structures”. Speaking as a professional lawyer, I can say that the question has never been asked of the High Court as to who is the Australian head of state. I think that if the question was ever put, then the answer would depend on the context of the case, for example if the 1975 dismissal of the Prime Minister had ever engaged the attention of the High Court, it might have been found that Sir John Kerr did not act as the delegate or agent or representative of any office other than his own. But I cannot speak for the High Court, who change their opinions with each new appointment.
It is commonplace to see the Governor-General described as the Head of State in the media through headlines and editorials. Letters columns debated the issue during the referendum campaign and my own local paper continues to run correspondence on the question. Politicians routinely describe the Governor-General as the Head of State. The Opposition Leader during the Peter Hollingworth affair said this: “SIMON CREAN: Of course I do because I've known him over many years and he has done important work for the community. I also have sympathy for the circumstances of his wife and I expressed those to the Governor-General at ANZAC Day. But, you know, there's a whole lot emotions going here. But the truth of it is we're dealing with the Head of State and the Head of State cannot be a person who has covered up for child sex abusers.” http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2003/s863541.htm John Stubbs, another figure of impeccable Labor credentials said in his 1989 biography of Bill Hayden: “On 16 February 1989, Bill Hayden, who was a month old when his parents were married, was sworn in as Australia’s Head of State.” (John Stubbs, “Hayden”, William Heinemann, Melbourne, p3).
The matter became political during the referendum campaign, with those advocating a Yes vote saying that this would give us an Australian as Head of State, and the monarchists asking for a No vote saying that we already had the Governor-General as Head of State and he was an Australian.
It is typical of Australia that the government itself is unsure of the answer. The official Commonwealth Government Directory alternates between describing the Queen as Head of State and the Governor-General as Head of State. Both have had “runs” of several years!
The best that can be said is that opinion is divided, and that though either side can marshal up a range of arguments, it is a nonsense to dismiss the arguments of their opponents. A Parliamentary Library Research Brief summarises the positions. http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rn/1995-96/96rn44.htm
There is also a middle ground of the opinion that the Queen and the Governor-General are both Heads of State, usually stating the Queen is the symbolic figurehead while the Governor-General does the job. Supporters of this view do not say that one or the other is the head of state. They use terms such as “formal” or “notional” or “effective” or “symbolic”. I have seen this last term used to describe both the Queen and the Governor-General, which is indicative of the diversity of opinion on this matter.
CONCLUSION
I am glad that my job is not to provide a final definitive wording! I would direct that all parties come to an agreement and that they do so with politeness and respect for each other, and that if they cannot do this then they are not fit to edit a kindergarten newsletter, much less an encyclopaedia.
Forget about what Adam said, this "evidence" is totally irrelevant to the case at hand. This is about a user's conduct, not about further arguing his cause. Xtra 11:47, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Having reread the contribution of 'Wingbearer' there are suspicious aspects to the contribution which raises the serious question as to whether a sockpuppet is being used on the page. But then, given the contempt showed for factual accuracy, legal definitions, quotes and Wikipedia consensus rules, I suppose contempt for this process here is to be expected by one of the parties to the dispute here, with the appearance of someone with no editing history, no identity, etc to 'bolster' (supposedly) one side of the argument. Indeed, typically, that user is intent on forcing that mysterious individual's 'contribution', the only conveniently to defend them amid the universal criticism of their behaviour, by reverting to install their stuff even though its presence here breaks the rules of RfA. But then, having broken so many other rules, guidelines and ignored so many facts, what's another breaking of the rules to them. If that individual is in any way related to the apparent sockpuppet, would that warrant a ban for that individual? FearÉIREANN (talk) 20:43, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Anyone, whether directly involved or not, may add evidence to this page. Please make a header for your evidence and sign your comments with your name.
When placing evidence here, please be considerate of the arbitrators and be concise. Long, rambling, or stream-of-conciousness rants are not helpful.
As such, it is extremely important that you use the prescribed format. Submitted evidence should include a link to the actual page diff; links to the page itself are not sufficient. For example, to cite the edit by Mennonot to the article Anomalous phenomenon adding a link to Hundredth Monkey use this form: [http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Anomalous_phenomenon&diff=5587219&oldid=5584644] [1].
This page is not for general discussion - for that, see talk page.
Please make a section for your evidence and add evidence only in your own section. Please limit your evidence to a maximum 1000 words and 100 diffs, a much shorter, concise presentation is more likely to be effective. Please focus on the issues raised in the complaint and answer and on diffs which illustrate behavior which relates to the issues.
If you disagree with some evidence you see here, please cite the evidence in your own section and provide counter-evidence, or an explanation of why the evidence is misleading. Do not edit within the evidence section of any other user.
Be aware that the Arbitrators may at times rework this page to try to make it more coherent. If you are a participant in the case or a third party, please don't try to refactor the page, let the Arbitrators do it. If you object to evidence which is inserted by other participants or third parties please cite the evidence and voice your objections within your own section of the page. It is especially important to not remove evidence presented by others. If something is put in the wrong place, please leave it for the arbitrators to move.
A general comment for the ArbCom, I think it would be a good idea to go through the talk archives of government of Australia (not necessarily in any detail) to see how frustrating it is for other edits to deal with Skyrings edits against concensus.-- nixie 01:56, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The talk archives of Government of Australia show that I take care to present the views of authorities on this subject, not my own, and that cites are provided for my article edits. The charges of original research and POV-pushing are unfounded.
This is a case of "Wikipedia-rage". User:Adam Carr gives the impression that he can abuse other editors freely, he need not provide sources, and he can whistle up help to enforce his threats and bullying. I showed a link to the Commonwealth's own hardcopy government directory describing the Governor-General as the Head of State. Adam gave a response demonstrating that he considers himself the ultimate authority. This view is unacceptable in a Wikipedia editor, as is the idea that truth is found by calling up shills and holding a vote.
The dispute centres on Adam's populist view that the Queen is Australia's sole head of state. There are three distinct views on this amongst constitutional scholars, with the Prime Minister and Professor George Winterton holding alternate views, and any edit stating that the Queen is the sole head of state is POV.
[41] and subsequent.
I concur completely with Petaholmes's submission. My observation regarding Skyring's contributions is that they have been based on wholescale misrepresentations of facts. The above evidence given by him shows a clear evidence of that. Turnbull did not say that Australia is a republic, nor does his words suggest that, as any even slight acquaintence with his writings shows. What he actually means, and what he is universally interpreted to mean, is that Australia, given that Australia is a state in which sovereignty derives from the people, should not have an hereditary monarchy, as that is inconsistent with its status of popular sovereignty. Its status should be that of a republic, and abolishing the monarchy would make it a republic. He never said, and is never anywhere interpreted to say, that Australia is currently a republic. Skyring misrepresented what he said and based clearly factually wrong edits on that misrepresentation.
While one misrepresentation could be categorised as indicative of confusion on the part of the contributor. Constant continual misrepresentation of source after source after source has been the hallmark of Skyring's contributions. It is hard after reading the scale of the misrepresentations (some of them jawdropping in their audacity - as anyone with even the slighest elementary knowledge of laws, political science and constitutions knows, one simply cannot be a republic if one is a constitutional monarchy, for example. It is like saying one is a cat and a dog) to conclude that the mispresentations were just a cynical game to deface an encylopaedia article with patent nonsense just to annoy other users. Users invariably started by pointing out the errors in his writings, presuming it was a genuine mistake. However after a couple of attempts, everyone, one by one, came to conclude that the edits weren't genuine but were just a cynical game of vandalism to see if he could get away with it.
A classic example of his gross distortions of documents occurs in his evidence above, where he writes
It is actually written in black and white in the constitution.
Every Australian law starts off with the line "BE IT THEREFORE enacted by the Queen, the Senate and the House of Representatives of Australia . . ."
I could go on (we all could go on and on) pointing out the fundamental errors of fact, interpretation, analysis, context, relevance, etc in his contributions. Users have filled six archives pointing out his errors. Even here he gets elementary facts wrong (how can someone so convinced that he is a constitutional expert not even know what the opening line of every Australian law is?) His response invariably is to mispresent sources, quote comments out of context and demand evidence to prove things that have been repeatedly proven, while refusing to offer evidence in return, and when finally he offers some evidence, it turns out to mean the exact opposite of what it says it means, or that the source is not compatable to other sources given in terms of credibility, eg, while others could quote primary documents, legal documents, letters patent, statements by Attorneys-General, his "evidence" in one instance was something written somewhere by some junior lawyer.
And, though users have been queuing to point it out to him, in legal terminology de facto does not mean is, it means in general terms acts in reality as. So he continually misrepresents a careful phrase by Professor George Winterton about how the Queen is the head of state and the Governor-General is de facto head of state (ie, acts as, not is) as meaning George is saying Australia that Australia has two heads of state. Nobody familiar with George's writings, with what he has said, and with the way he said it, interprets George's words that way. He explicitly says Australia has one head of state, not two. Every major academic, every major lawyer, every constitutional expert, everyone with a grasp of elementary use of english constitutional law, and everyone on Wikipedia but Skyring says he is completely misunderstanding at best, deliberately mispresenting at worst, George's words. (BTW I know George and know for a fact that his views are the opposite of what Skyring says.)
To see the full story, as Robert says above, you need to read the archives of the debate, in particular Archive 6. Quite frankly accepting Skyring's edits, on the basis of flimsy evidence and dubious interpretations, when all the convincing evidence points in the other direction, would have been the equivalent of giving Emperor Norton I equal billing as Abraham Lincoln in pages on who was the US head of state in the 1860s, on the basis that a few people (tongue-in-cheek) called Norton His Imperial Majesty and that the word Emperor is on his tombstone!!!
Because I am refusing to play his verbal games (as have others; everyone at this stage has given up even trying to communicate with him after past negative experiences) Skyring has decided to 'up the ante' by targeting me for abuse. He has spent most of his time doing nothing other than editing anything I edit, even marginally, no matter what the topic, and make changes, some of them as minimal as changing a quotation mark, and leave personal abuse.
For example, focusing on my Irish origins, onto a page I had edited (marginally) he wrote
Talk:Irish referendum on the European Constitution
According to [1] ( https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/po.html), Portugal is bigger in area and population than Ireland [2] ( https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ei.html). I don't think too many people would say that Portugal is a major European state. Nice try. Pete 23:13, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
On Adam's talk page added the following. [51]
In one case, Donald Regan I had only entered the page to fix a text box. Yet Skyring suddenly developed an interest in Ronald Reagan's former Chief of Staff, having suddenly developed an issue in the Irish presidency, Irish presidential ceremonial, crown jewels, the European Constitution, Dublin Corporation, journalistic terminology, and even a type of car (which I just happened to have visited to make a minor change when setting up a link!!! [52]), all miraculously just after I had written something about them.
Some of it is even comical, like his 'reporting' me to an Irish editor for supposed poor english in an article. [53] The user in question pointed out to him that (a) there was nothing much wrong with the article, (b) all I had done in the article was add a template, and (c) the user himself was in fact the author of the article, not me! [54]
Where I was discussing something with other users, he would suddenly appear to add a snide comment. [55] [56]
As an example of his campaign of harrassment, take a look below at just some of his contributions. I have bold italicised the pages I had not touched or which are not about me. Everything unbolded I had edited recently on wikipedia just before Skyring's sudden interest in them too, even if on occasions only in a minor way, like adding a frame to a picture. The list is in the order of his contributions. Nothing has been edited out of the list. This is the list of all the articles he has "worked" on (in a manner of speaking) over the last few days.
* 06:13, 14 Jun 2005 (hist) (diff) m Australia (Reverted edits by 144.139.33.132 to last version by Cyberjunkie) * 05:29, 14 Jun 2005 (hist) (diff) m Moon landing (top) [rollback]'
13:35, 13 Jun 2005 (hist) (diff) m Áras an Uachtaráin (Å®Origins)
* 09:43, 13 Jun 2005 (hist) (diff) Talk:Port Arthur Massacre (ŮConspiracy theory, firearm control...) (top) [rollback] * 09:38, 13 Jun 2005 (hist) (diff) Port Arthur Massacre (Commonwealth has no power over firearms, SLRs not banned outright)
03:07, 13 Jun 2005 (hist) (diff) m President of Ireland (ŮOfficial residence, anthem, style and address)
Meanwhile anonymous individuals just happen to be appearing either to defend Skyring (only to disappear and never to be heard of again) [57] or to make allegations against me [58].
I have no wish to have any dealings with Skyring, whom I regard as troll. He seems to have taken offence at my refusal to play his wordgames on talk pages. Having made it quite clear what I think of him I have no intention of having anything to do with this individual. When he gets bored trying to intimidate and harrass me, he will no doubt move on to someone else. Individuals like that should not be on Wikipedia.
GENERAL
I have been asked to cast an eye over this matter. The material is in a format reminiscent of “hypertext” with its forest of links. It is hard to follow, although the “signatures” aid in understanding the flow of discussion. It would be extremely difficult to present this in court in a raw form.
The “Wikipedia” looks to be competently done in the main, however it is riddled with errors and inconsistencies when examined in detail. Top marks for a good idea, but a FAIL if the intention is to produce a reliable reference work.
PARTIES TO THE DISPUTE
On reading this copious material I wish that I was being paid to do so and that I could examine the parties in court where they could be compelled to answer questions. It would be preferable for these people to sit together around a table and discuss their issues face to face. By debating from behind a shield of Internet anonymity, they say things they would not say in real life.
“PETE”
One of the quickest ways to antagonise an impartial audience is to be snide, sarcastic and “smart”. When used with hostile listeners, it is a strategy of failure, regardless of whether the evidence is reliable and factual. Nitpicking and triumphantly exposing errors are not going to win over the good will of those who do not relish admitting error. A tick for failing to respond to abuse and provocation. Good research, poorly presented.
“ADAM”
This witness would be in contempt of court in short order. Open hostility, threatening behaviour, inability to recognise higher authority, inability to present cites, partisan encouragement of other parties etc. The charge of “Wikipedia-rage” as an analogy to “road-rage” is apposite.
“JTDIRL”
Any competent lawyer would give this witness an extremely uncomfortable time in cross-examination. His ignorance of the very material in which he presents himself as an expert is plain. For example he is unfamiliar with the leaders of the Australian monarchists and their public statements made during the 1999 referendum debate. His material on Irish affairs is colourful but irrelevant. He refers to cites which are not provided. Some statements are gobbledygook: “George quite normally draws the distinction between the de jure and de facto roles, as would any professional lawyer. However he goes further and qualifies even the de facto claim, lest anyone misunderstand him as claiming there are two heads of states, when he makes it clear that there aren't, by saying that even the de facto role is restricted internally within the Commonwealth, by speaking of the Commonwealth, but not of Australia. In other words, the Governor-General acts as, not is, the head of state, but only within the constitutional and legal framework as defined by constitutional and statute law, as well as Letters Patent, within the structures of the Commonwealth. He does only what legally he can do internally. But in no sense, even de facto is he the embodiment of Australia, merely of the governmental structures internally of the Commonwealth.”
OTHER PARTICIPANTS
No other parties are as prolific and prolix as these three. Several positions are exhibited, ranging from those strident in their declarations, reminiscent of those who stand at the back of crowds to call out in support of their champion, to those who seek calm and rational consensus.
THE GOVERNOR-GENERAL AS HEAD OF STATE
Nobody who saw Sir William Deane at the service for the victims of the Swiss Canyoning tragedy, or officiating at the opening of the 2000 Olympic Games, would claim that he was not the embodiment of Australia and Australian values, merely of “internal governmental structures”. Speaking as a professional lawyer, I can say that the question has never been asked of the High Court as to who is the Australian head of state. I think that if the question was ever put, then the answer would depend on the context of the case, for example if the 1975 dismissal of the Prime Minister had ever engaged the attention of the High Court, it might have been found that Sir John Kerr did not act as the delegate or agent or representative of any office other than his own. But I cannot speak for the High Court, who change their opinions with each new appointment.
It is commonplace to see the Governor-General described as the Head of State in the media through headlines and editorials. Letters columns debated the issue during the referendum campaign and my own local paper continues to run correspondence on the question. Politicians routinely describe the Governor-General as the Head of State. The Opposition Leader during the Peter Hollingworth affair said this: “SIMON CREAN: Of course I do because I've known him over many years and he has done important work for the community. I also have sympathy for the circumstances of his wife and I expressed those to the Governor-General at ANZAC Day. But, you know, there's a whole lot emotions going here. But the truth of it is we're dealing with the Head of State and the Head of State cannot be a person who has covered up for child sex abusers.” http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2003/s863541.htm John Stubbs, another figure of impeccable Labor credentials said in his 1989 biography of Bill Hayden: “On 16 February 1989, Bill Hayden, who was a month old when his parents were married, was sworn in as Australia’s Head of State.” (John Stubbs, “Hayden”, William Heinemann, Melbourne, p3).
The matter became political during the referendum campaign, with those advocating a Yes vote saying that this would give us an Australian as Head of State, and the monarchists asking for a No vote saying that we already had the Governor-General as Head of State and he was an Australian.
It is typical of Australia that the government itself is unsure of the answer. The official Commonwealth Government Directory alternates between describing the Queen as Head of State and the Governor-General as Head of State. Both have had “runs” of several years!
The best that can be said is that opinion is divided, and that though either side can marshal up a range of arguments, it is a nonsense to dismiss the arguments of their opponents. A Parliamentary Library Research Brief summarises the positions. http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rn/1995-96/96rn44.htm
There is also a middle ground of the opinion that the Queen and the Governor-General are both Heads of State, usually stating the Queen is the symbolic figurehead while the Governor-General does the job. Supporters of this view do not say that one or the other is the head of state. They use terms such as “formal” or “notional” or “effective” or “symbolic”. I have seen this last term used to describe both the Queen and the Governor-General, which is indicative of the diversity of opinion on this matter.
CONCLUSION
I am glad that my job is not to provide a final definitive wording! I would direct that all parties come to an agreement and that they do so with politeness and respect for each other, and that if they cannot do this then they are not fit to edit a kindergarten newsletter, much less an encyclopaedia.
Forget about what Adam said, this "evidence" is totally irrelevant to the case at hand. This is about a user's conduct, not about further arguing his cause. Xtra 11:47, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Having reread the contribution of 'Wingbearer' there are suspicious aspects to the contribution which raises the serious question as to whether a sockpuppet is being used on the page. But then, given the contempt showed for factual accuracy, legal definitions, quotes and Wikipedia consensus rules, I suppose contempt for this process here is to be expected by one of the parties to the dispute here, with the appearance of someone with no editing history, no identity, etc to 'bolster' (supposedly) one side of the argument. Indeed, typically, that user is intent on forcing that mysterious individual's 'contribution', the only conveniently to defend them amid the universal criticism of their behaviour, by reverting to install their stuff even though its presence here breaks the rules of RfA. But then, having broken so many other rules, guidelines and ignored so many facts, what's another breaking of the rules to them. If that individual is in any way related to the apparent sockpuppet, would that warrant a ban for that individual? FearÉIREANN (talk) 20:43, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)