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The evidence being submitted here are an attempt to show that User:Aucaman, regrettably engages in a cyclical pattern that results in a disruptive influence on some articles. The user may be obstinate to the point that even a pending ArbCom case has not resulted in an attempt at a good behaviour: some requests made to him to stay calm, should have served as a temporary remedy, in that the user could have taken full advantage of this opportunity to allow for a cooling-off period to set in, yet instead, his usual activities continue. Example: he was recently blocked for another 3RR violation, but blocked again for a second consecutive day, this time for civility infractions; however, even so, while still blocked the user threatened to file an Rfc against the administrator(s) who blocked him [2].
1. Excessively reverting many articles such as Persian people, Iranian people, Parsi, and Iran: the user disagrees with the use of the word Aryan [3], and/or Indo-European in many articles [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34]
1. Places numerous dispute tags on articles, namely Persian people, Iranian people, Parsi, Turkish Kurdistan, and Iran: (sometimes simultaneously) [35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] [50] [51]
1. User Aucaman refuses to properly cooperate/collaborate with others, including third party editors/mediators, e.g. does not accept references, erases comments and warnings from his talk page etc. [52] [53] [54] [55] [56] [57] [58] [59] [60] [61] [62] [63] [64]
1. Inserts highly inappropriate comments in articles to perhaps illustrate certain points of views, e.g., trying to relate Persia to Nazi Germany [65] [66] [67] [68]
In most instances the user is very active in articles and just stops short of the 3RR, timing his edits just outside the 24 hour period in order to evade the policy, but at times he has gone over 4 reverts in 24 hours.
1. 27 March 2006 [69]
2. 11 March 2006 [70]
3. 1 March 2006 (not reported for it) 1st revert: [71] 2st revert: [72] 3nd revert: [73] 4rd revert: [74] 5th revert: [75] 6th revert: [76] 7th revert: [77] 8th revert: [78]
The user is also an intelligent, and savvy Wikipedian, and is well connected here, yet one who unfortunately indirectly involves others in what seems like a non-ending loop, in which he refuses to reason in the discussion pages or mediations, reverts articles, then if others revert it back, he reports them to the admins for various reasons (often unmerited); such reasons may include his accusations that others follow him around, he reports others unjustly for 3RR in the hope that they will stop reverting his POV etc. In all the user tries to game the system, e.g. contacting and trying to buy the sympathy of the admins, and in general there is just a certain unwillingness by the user to confluence with various groups of editors; his tone has been consistently immoderate and abrasive.
1."You made a good analogy with the right-wingers in America, except that these people are the clear minority - most of them were kicked out of Iran". [79].
2."Now, go and get lost. Death praiser. You illiterate mental. Your Cyrus the Great was nothing but an illiterate and murderer. But still he is long gone and forgotten. What is your excuse for being one.....? Your dad is a mercenary" (note: this comment was translated [80]), [81].
3. Other incivilities [82] [83] [84] [85] [86] [87] [88] [89] [90] [91] [92] [93] [94] [95] [96] [97] [98] [99] [100] [101] Zmmz 20:40, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
User certainly lacks etiquette. But also fails to assume good faith to warn others first, methodically reporting them for 3RR, sometimes incorrectly: [102] [103] [104] [105] [106]
Ive seen this user remove comments and warnings from his talkpage and removing other's comments from discussion pages as well, moving articles entirely such as parsi etc. without discussing anything with anyone.
When confronted, he engages in combative behaviour with other editors such as User:ManiF (which Ive personally seen), instead of trying to resolve things by talk. That's why I rarely engage this user (Aucaman) at all. It disrupts any attempt to make some real contribution. All ones time will be waisted on quarreling with no ending. That's not why I'm here on WP.
It cannot escape the notice of outside observers such as myself that people such as him make optimal use of gaming the system, and that is a bad precedent for WP.
Interesting is that, as far as these edit wars go, the obvious pattern is that Aucaman seems to be obsessed with only Iranian articles. I dont see this user engaging in edit wars anywhere else.-- Zereshk 08:14, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
User pushes POV
Recently Aucaman has been POV-pushing on the
Ruhollah Khomeini page. He insists on adding a paragraph called "views on non-Muslims", although this is disputed by several other users, who have explained that the Shi'a tradition of ritual purity is not unique to Khomeini, and is common to most, if not all Shi'a theologians. Despite this, he continues to add the paragraph (
[112]
[113]
[114]) and revert about it (
[115]
[116]
[117]
[118]
[119])
User removes people's comments
I've caught Aucaman deleting the comments of others on talk pages - specifically at Talk:Iranian peoples. Just because the comments were unsigned, there isn't any justification for this. [120] [121] [122] [123] [124] -- Khoikhoi 08:41, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
WP:NPOV violations
Bad faith
Hi, regarding your proposal here [154]; the aforementioned articles, namely Parsi, Persian people, and Iranian people that show I had engaged in edit-warring in, are actually a few weeks old. At some point, I took the advice of the admins to heart, and did not become frustrated by Aucaman`s offensive edits, rather left those articles. It has been a month and a half since then, and I have taken Wiki even more seriously, moreover, I had made numerous attempts, with some success at compromising with various other editors (in some cases, such as the Persian Gulf article the long edit wars ceased after I intervened). Here are some diffs showing my successful attempts at compromising with various other editors,
Hello I was asked to add a comment here by Zmmz. I would generally say I have an opposite POV on the articles where I have come into contact with Zmmz, but in the cases where we have had serious conflicts we have been able to compromise. Zmmz definetely has a stong POV, but I think it would be wrong to block him from editing these articles since on the whole I think he makes useful additions. I think it is kinda strange that out of all the Pro-Iranian editors it is Zmmz that has been picked on, since he is easily the most reasonable and not to mention courteus of all of these users.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 23:28, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
(Copied from above link) Ditto to most everything Moshe just said. In my case, I had a brief conflict with Zmmz a couple months ago when he was brand new on the scene here, and still did not know all the ropes - but we were indeed soon able to reach a compromise that was satisfactory to everyone, by each giving a little... From what I can tell, he seems to have adjusted to becoming a "wikipedian" remarkably swiftly; and since this here is the first time I have ever commented on any arbcom case in any way, it could be said that he is more experienced than I am in certain areas! ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 14:25, 15 April 2006 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Codex Sinaiticus ( talk • contribs)
I must agree with all of user:Moshe's comments above. I was in a pretty good debate with Moshe where Zmmz made strong efforts to mediate, and to maintain an air of civility and a spirit of community. My experiences with Zmmz came on the Talk:Persian Jews page, where he showed great willingness to compromise and find consensus. For those concerned, a quick read (!) of the talk page there should answer lots of questions about the behaviour of all these editors. - black thorn of brethil 00:12, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I agree with the comments above regarding zmmz and his ability and willingness to compromise. I have seen it many times. Also, I think it would be a bad idea to block him since as Moshe said, he makes useful additions. Gol 20:01, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
I have never been blatantly uncivil to other editors, since I have joined Wiki. Zmmz 18:28, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
I agree with this comment as well. I have closely followed many of the discussions he was part of and I don’t ever remember him being uncivil. Gol 20:02, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
These evidence are in regards to user Zora ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who may have a pre-meditated pro or against agenda before she edits an article, which makes it highly inappropriate to edit an encyclopedia. Due to her “anti-nationalist” ideology [179], it is at [best] plausible to assume, and frankly fair to dismiss some of the multiple disputes put forth by this user in articles relating to Iran, or Persia: she has an obssesion with these articles, indicating there is no such thing as a “Persian culture”, or even “Persian people” per se. For the past year and a half, she has spread labels such as "gang", "Iranian gang", “Nationalists chauvinists”, or “Persian chauvinists” etc., that does nothing but spread racism and hatred among fellow editors, and sponsors a hostile environment.
The user engages in edit-warring in all articles related to Islam, Muslims, and Arabs, diverging into articles about Iran/Persia. The following articles include, Islamic conquest of Persia, Battle of Karbala, Muawiyah I, Aisha, Zakir Naik, Muhammad, Husayn ibn Ali, Salafi, Richard Nelson Frye, Persian people, Iranian people, Khuzestan, Ahvaz, Rumi and perhaps elsewhere. Many times, only one edit or revertion of her is enough to cascade an edit-war, while keeping in mind, many of her disputes are buried in discussion pages. Many times she edits/reverts articles, even though she may have no historical knowledge of the factual content of some of these articles; she may do so due to her sympathy for the minority political groups, Zora herself stating, Abolish the U.S.! Abolish the Islamic Republic of Iran!...I spit on all flags...!, Zora herself claiming to be “..a heretic anti-nationalist American”, here too, as compared to for pure academic reasons here (e.g. the repeated indications of the possible Turkish origin of a particular scientist, is historically inaccurate, and not found in any academic sources, such that at his time the Turks had not invaded/mixed with Persians in that area; it occured 250 years later). As the subsequent diffs show, the user’s claims that others push a POV, and that she neutralizes articles in an NPOV fashion are reciprocal in nature to this edit-warring here [180] [181] [182] [183] [184] [185] [186] [187] [188] [189] [190] [191] [192] [193] [194] [195] [196] [197] [198] [199] [200] [201] [202] [203] [204] [205] [206] [207] [208] [209] [210] [211] [212] [213] [214] [215] [216] [217] [218] [219] [220] [221] [222] [223] [224] [225] [226] [227] [228] [229].
[230] [231] [232] [233] [234] [235] [236] [237] [238] [239] [240] [241] [242] [243] [244] [245] [246] [247] [248] [249] [250] [251]
[254] [255] [256] [257] [258] [259] [260] [261] [262]
As per Wikipedia is not an experiment in anarchy.
” (poop)
[296] [297] [298] [299] Zmmz 00:44, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Zmmz charges that I have a POV: "she may have a pre-meditated pro or against agenda before she edits an article, which makes it highly inappropriate to edit an encyclopedia."
Of course I have a POV. Multiple POVs. Everyone does. That's why I believe in NPOV. I give the best case for my POV (if it's notable), other editors give their best cases, and the reader decides. When people do that, it usually settles WP disputes -- if not the real life ones underlying the WP disputes.
He says: "she has an obssesion with these articles, indicating there is no such thing as a “Persian culture”, or even “Persian people” per se. "
I have said, over and over, that I do not believe in cultures as "bounded entities", as per structuralism, or structural-functionalism. It's not just me: read the WP articles on Nationalism and Ethnicity. Zmmz seems to think that cultures are "facts" or "objects", as concrete as a chair. I, and others, are saying that who belongs and who doesn't, who gets to say what is included in "Persian culture" and what isn't, is a matter for negotiation, and constant renegotiation, and that people have various motives for taking the stands that they do. This is not "original research". This is a respectable academic stance. It is espoused by authors such as Anthony Smith, Ernest Gellner, Eric Hobsbawm, Prasenjit Duara, Benedict Anderson, James Clifford, Dan Sperber. Academics hold conferences on the subject, such as this one [300] that just finished at the University of North Carolina,
Zmmz tells me that an encyclopedia should only include the mainstream view and exclude new or radical views. Usually, WP editors take pride in how up-to-date WP is.
Zmmz blames me for causing controversy. Controversy is wrong? I thought we -- and all intellectual endeavor- -- thrived on it. As long as views are notable, none should be excluded from WP just to keep things pleasant. If editors are willing to set aside a section for the minority or opposing views, there's no problem; it's only when other views are forcibly suppressed that dispute arises.
Zmmz accuses me of "frivolous edit-warring in all articles related to Islam, Muslims, and Arabs, diverging into articles about Iran/Persia.” Frivolous? I'm iconoclastic, at times, but not frivolous. I think if you asked most of the editors in the non-Iranian subjects to which I contribute, they'd say that I argued hard, admitted error when I made a mistake, tried to compromise, and contributed lots of good articles and material. Look at my user page. Look at my edit count. I don't keep a boast list of articles I've started, but I've created quite a few. I have made enemies (look at my user page!) but I think I've made more friends than enemies. If you actually look at the edits that Zmmz says are evidence of "warring", you'll see me saying things like, "No, you can't put PBUH after Muhammad, this is a secular encyclopedia", or "How about this? will this work for you?" I looked over his long list of "proofs" that I'm a bad editor, and I don't see one of which I'm ashamed.
Zmmz believes that I violate verifiability by refusing to accept the Encyclopedia Britannica as the final word on a subject. Yes, I dismiss general interest encyclopedias as sources. A peer-reviewed scholarly article or a recent book from an academic press has much more weight than the Encyclopedia Brittanica.
He accuses me of discrediting Frye. I haven't discredited Frye -- I couldn't. I have doubted, publicly, that an 86 year old scholar is keeping up with the latest research. He republished his 1975 The Golden Age of Persia in 1999, and added a forward saying that he saw no need to revise his work in any way, since "no new discoveries or revision of our period of history have appeared". To a scholar, the claim that nothing new has appeared in the last 25 years is ... mindboggling. It is perfectly OK to doubt and question -- particularly when it's on a talk page. I didn't put any of that in the article. In fact, I emailed Frye and asked him to check out the article for accuracy. Would I have done that if I had masterminded a hatchet job on him?
Zmmz claims that I'm violating WP:POINT because I don't fall in line with his views of things. He accuses me of "trying to erase the Persian ethnicity of Rumi". Hmm, that's assuming that he's right and I'm wrong, which is not a given. It's not "disrupting WP to make a point" to argue with Zmmz.
Zmmz accuses me of being uncivil and then gives a list of quotes. I really can't see that any of them are personal attacks. If you look at his diffs, and the context of my remarks, what you’ll see is me discussing my political opinions on a personal talk page, asking an angry editor to calm down, arguing vigorously – but no personal attacks. What I call a personal attack is something like this [301]. I have taken such assaults in silence rather than running to admins. I hope that anyone reading this can see the difference between a real personal attack and argument, or between attacking someone to his or her face, and making a political comment on a friend's talk page.
If someone comes to me and says, "You're hurting my feelings, please don't say X," I'll listen. I don't want to gratuitously hurt someone's feelings. But I do not like being stalked for "evidence" that I'm a bad person, or accused of incivility if I argue vigorously.
This is a second version of my defense; I didn’t see the warning to keep it under 1000 words, so I’ve been cutting drastically. He has slung a great many accusations at me, and I don’t really have space to discuss them all. If he’s going to attack me, I wish he’d do it in a separate Request for Arbitration, so that I’d have room to defend myself. Zora 18:13, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
All i can say is that Zora cant claim not to have a POV. I've noticed while editing India articles she relies heavily on scholars adhereing to a particular ideology and isists on allowing only HER version of article and completely disregarding other's POV. She dismisses he detractors or people whose POV doesnt agree with her's as mere insane nationalists, extremists and zealots. Whenever something is amiss in Indian she automatically blames everything on Hindutva [304] , [305]. Her failure to see that people being individuals have an opinion and are not always part of some monolithic nationalist conspiracy tends to get irritating. अमेय आर्यन DaBroodey 18:56, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
How does one prove a negative? The following four pages have been named as examples where Zora engaged in disruptive edit-warring:
I absolutely fail to see how this editing pattern could be described as edit-warring. Lukas (T.| @) 16:35, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Lukas (T.| @) 07:31, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm not quite sure how these RfArs work, but I think I can add my two cents in here. This seems like the most appropriate topic for me to add in my view. The only person involved in this RfAr that I have worked with in the past is Zora, and the only article from the above list that I have edited and watch is Aisha. For the former, I have had minimal problems with Zora. She is usually fair in her editing and reverting. She doesn't, atleast from my watch, edit war. I feel confident enough in her editing that often times I don't need to check the diff links on certain pages, simply because she was the last one to edit the page. The Aisha page is a page of much controversy at times. Many anti-Islam editors will approach that article to disparage Islam as much as possible by calling Muhammad a pedophile and other such hate filled comments. As far as I've seen, Zora has maintained the integrity of the article, and by extension, the integrity of Wikipedia as a whole. Pepsidrinka 02:37, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Before everything I apologize if this comment is completely irrelevant. I have not read the discussion here but I was surprised to see that Zora is accused of doing edit-warring!!! I have found her too knowledgeable, quite mild, and logical. I may not agree with her on some issues but all of us have the right to have our own opinion. I will never ever believe she joins a revert war. No way! Even if it happens, there should be a good reason for that. I don't know what her charges exactly are, but I am Persian and her edits has never bothered me. Were she anti-Persian, I should have felt it. My POV is that if an editor like Zora encounters any penalties, this should be mentioned in the "criticism of wikipedia" article. I am sorry if this was not the place to add this comment. Feel free to remove this comment if it is not relevant. -- Aminz 02:29, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
I am fairly new to wikipedia, and known Zora since the day I started at wikipedia. She is an extremely knowledgeable person and quite polite most of the time. Once I have noticed she being incivil, in the Muhammed talk page, hey we all have our bad times. She is quick to revert things if she doesn't agree with something, but most of the time she does make a good case. Once she removed an entry that I added in the Muhammed page saying it is Hagiography when there was very good reference see here. I sometimes have mixed feelings about Zora's behaviour, and do not always agree with her way of doing things. But I have good faith in her and I personaly think punishing her would demotivate other good contributors. Mystic 16:11, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I must say I have been watching user Zora closely in the recent times and her behaviour has changed completely, I no longer endorse Zora as a good wikipedian, she continues to be rude, self centered and completely ignores the efforts of the other wikipedians. Just take look at her talk page right now. She assumes that she is the foremost authority in all the subjects she's contributing, and mercilessly removes contributions by others that she doesn't agree with. She also fails to assume good faith and uses rude language see this diff here «₪Mÿš†íc₪» (T) 06:43, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Zora is a fair and bold editor on many Islamic articles. I've had several disagreements with her, but she is usually willing to compromise and keeps POV away on the Islam articles. The article Aisha is one of them and she helps many of the editors on the page keep the horrible anti Islamic comments and vandalism off the page. I do not know her editing style on Persian articles, but according to what I've seen on my long time working with her, she keeps many articles clean and encyclopedic even if it makes her very easy to blame for something like edit warring. -- a.n.o.n.y.m t 19:25, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I think it may be inappropriate, that even in the ArbCom case, User:LukasPietsch is attempting to marginalize other’s grievances. He has consistently tried to tie these disputes to the current geo political climate, and he has done nothing constructive, but to spread racism and hatred by labeling others. I hear is just a lot ambivalence, nothing substantive. What he indicates is slander.
From the start, when Lukas began to get involve, and represent Aucaman as an advocate in the Rfc I set-up for him, in which not surprisingly Aucaman showed almost no interest in, Lukas has engaged in grossly inappropriate inflammatory exchanges with other users involved on the opposite side. I have yet to see any evidence of his willingness to compromise. As an `Advocate`, instead of displaying a certain amount of magnanimity, and good spirit towards other Wikpedia members, to demonstrate an spirit of community and cooperation, he has harassed, and intimidated other users. He has indicated, in more than one instance that, “...this has to stop, and right now I feel inclined to do whatever it takes to make it stop.”, and right from the start, to this day, assuming, “This is an institutionalisation of this nationalist factionalising....which is a deeper-seated problem....involving poltical nationalists” [334].
1. Kashk`s, followed by user MysticRum`s well-intentioned inquiry to Lukas, indicating, does as an advocate Lukas allow this behaviour by Aucaman? [348]
2. Lukas`s response to MysticRum`s grievances: “Yawn. This incident has been discussed to death, I've commented on it earlier myself, he's himself done all the explaining it needed.....Now stop it”. [349]
3. Lukas`s response to MysticRum, after MysticRum expressed shocked that as a newcomer (see the second diff), such things occur in Wiki: “Please re-read every single word of what I said above, try to take it in, and then go away”. [350] [351]
He is promoting a hostile environment. He has failed yet, to assume good faith about others involved; there has not been [one] instance that comes to mind in which User:LukasPietsch has been whole-heartedly courteous to what he refers to as, the “Iranian nationalists”, “Iranian factionalizes ”, “the masterminds behind all this”, and “Nationalist mudsling”, whose some contributions to a noticeboard may be a “...a disgrace to Wikipedia ”.
Such behaviour is a bad precedent to set in Wiki, and it is as such toxic to the health of an encyclopedia. I will not operate in fear of retribution by user Lukas; rather, I fear the ramification of the clash of ideologies in an academic source that is, an encyclopedia of all places. I do hope that the committee will not look kindly upon such behaviour. No one is above the policies here, not even someone as intelligent, saavy, and well-connected as Lukas.
Zmmz 07:56, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Note: The following were prepared in close cooperation with User:LukasPietsch, but User:Aucaman is responsible for the accuracy of the evidence. The first part focuses on the general behavior of these users, whereas the second part focuses on the specific behaviors.
This group, which has been acting in close concert, includes:
Other users in the background:
Other users:
See some examples here.
There were several editors who expressed at least partial support for his views regarding the term "Aryan", among them User:Dbachmann, User:Ed Poor, User:Tombseye, Afghan Historian, User:LukasPietsch, and User:Zora.
At some point this users determined that I had no business being on Wikipedia ( [427]). In order to implement this decision,
Due to his actions described above, he was blocked for "harassment". These are all in addition to him going around spamming various users telling them about my "Zionist intentions" etc. etc.
This user is the most disruptive one by far. Has been blocked for personal attacks many times. Also has been using sockpuppets to circumvent blocks and over-represent his side (see here). I'm not going to bother listing his personal attacks, but his contributions to my talk page would make a good set of evidence against him. Other accounts used by this user:
There were several editors who expressed at least partial support for his views regarding the term "Aryan", among them User:Dbachmann, one of the most competent Wikipedians in the field ( [457], [458]).
While Aucaman's edits at Persian people have been clearly controversial, he has not been revert-warring to any excessive extent, except with respect to the {disputed} tag he wanted to have included. This was an understandable attempt to reach at least a symbolic acknowledgment from his opponents that his views were part of a legitimate dispute and not simply disruption. Justified in the matter, though misguided in the means. Aucaman's contributions to the content were mostly constructive, reasonably well referenced and properly argued.
— Khoikhoi 06:07, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
The evidence are in regards to Diyako ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)/ Xebat ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) who had collabrated with User:Aucaman [476], and he himself engaged in extremely disruptive behaviour. The user has been blocked multiple times, and is currently blocked for three months. My fear is User:Xebat will come back with another username, like he did before, but this time more cautious in disrupting articles; nevertheless, still tangent to edit-warring, and occasional incivilities.
User has engaged in persistent edit-warring in the following articles,
neccisary) if you will not act civilly” vs. “Jusht sho you know, I've now exhtended youl plocq fol a peliod of one mounth, and it kan bee exhtended fulthel (indefinatly, if nechchisaly) if you wil not act chivilly. The above comment ish..” (former by admin, later by Xebat).
terrorists vandalising this forum and no one cares.” [484].
proud for that. I feel myself a hero.” [488].
"In fact I am discussing with a racist Qashqai turk pasdar terrorist pro ahmadinejad who even do not recognize UN emblem and think it is PDK's" [492]
"You may not LIKE to be reminded of your Arab heritage" [495]
These users who, as demonstrated above, share strong negative feelings toward Iranians, collaborate and coordinate their efforts with User:Aucaman and each other, through emailing and talk page conversations, to inject controversial and potentially offensive racial, religious, or political views into Iran-related articles.
On several internet fora, Zora, under the name of Karen Lofstrom, posts about her work on Wikipedia describing her interest and involvement in the project as having been "sucked into Wikipedia" for a "fierce" "online duel" agaisnt "Iranian nationalists" , and declaring "Cthulhu vs. a bunch of Nazis? Oh, I am sure *our* side would win hands down!". [547], [548], [549], all the while admitting that she lacks references and has little or no knowledge of the subjects at hand.
More evidence might be submitted later on, as I'm currently busy in real life -- ManiF 22:57, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Mani, that is just so ... silly. You've reported the same message twice (it's the same thing on different sites that mirror Google groups). That was a post to the Usenet newsgroup rec.arts.sf.fandom, made a YEAR ago. I wasn't asking for help. I didn't even mention the articles involved. I was just amused at being told I was a Bengali. The post then sparked a 564-post thread that ranged over heck-and-gone, but with some attention to saris [550]. The best place to look up Usenet posts is on Google groups -- though perhaps, having told you that, I can expect to have things I posted to Usenet back in 1992 dragged out for inspection as proof of my evil nature. You mistook my signature block for part of the message, and decided that it was sinister, instead of funny. As for your third cite (which is actually a second post), that was an attempt to get information about a subject. Also posted on Usenet, on sci.archaeology, some ten months ago. I did not ask people to jump over to Wikipedia and support me; I asked for references to excavation reports. Here's the exchange, from Google: [551].
Y'know, I think there's a distinction between chatting with my friends, asking for information, and posting notices begging people to come fight for Iran.
Further points:
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The evidence being submitted here are an attempt to show that User:Aucaman, regrettably engages in a cyclical pattern that results in a disruptive influence on some articles. The user may be obstinate to the point that even a pending ArbCom case has not resulted in an attempt at a good behaviour: some requests made to him to stay calm, should have served as a temporary remedy, in that the user could have taken full advantage of this opportunity to allow for a cooling-off period to set in, yet instead, his usual activities continue. Example: he was recently blocked for another 3RR violation, but blocked again for a second consecutive day, this time for civility infractions; however, even so, while still blocked the user threatened to file an Rfc against the administrator(s) who blocked him [2].
1. Excessively reverting many articles such as Persian people, Iranian people, Parsi, and Iran: the user disagrees with the use of the word Aryan [3], and/or Indo-European in many articles [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34]
1. Places numerous dispute tags on articles, namely Persian people, Iranian people, Parsi, Turkish Kurdistan, and Iran: (sometimes simultaneously) [35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] [50] [51]
1. User Aucaman refuses to properly cooperate/collaborate with others, including third party editors/mediators, e.g. does not accept references, erases comments and warnings from his talk page etc. [52] [53] [54] [55] [56] [57] [58] [59] [60] [61] [62] [63] [64]
1. Inserts highly inappropriate comments in articles to perhaps illustrate certain points of views, e.g., trying to relate Persia to Nazi Germany [65] [66] [67] [68]
In most instances the user is very active in articles and just stops short of the 3RR, timing his edits just outside the 24 hour period in order to evade the policy, but at times he has gone over 4 reverts in 24 hours.
1. 27 March 2006 [69]
2. 11 March 2006 [70]
3. 1 March 2006 (not reported for it) 1st revert: [71] 2st revert: [72] 3nd revert: [73] 4rd revert: [74] 5th revert: [75] 6th revert: [76] 7th revert: [77] 8th revert: [78]
The user is also an intelligent, and savvy Wikipedian, and is well connected here, yet one who unfortunately indirectly involves others in what seems like a non-ending loop, in which he refuses to reason in the discussion pages or mediations, reverts articles, then if others revert it back, he reports them to the admins for various reasons (often unmerited); such reasons may include his accusations that others follow him around, he reports others unjustly for 3RR in the hope that they will stop reverting his POV etc. In all the user tries to game the system, e.g. contacting and trying to buy the sympathy of the admins, and in general there is just a certain unwillingness by the user to confluence with various groups of editors; his tone has been consistently immoderate and abrasive.
1."You made a good analogy with the right-wingers in America, except that these people are the clear minority - most of them were kicked out of Iran". [79].
2."Now, go and get lost. Death praiser. You illiterate mental. Your Cyrus the Great was nothing but an illiterate and murderer. But still he is long gone and forgotten. What is your excuse for being one.....? Your dad is a mercenary" (note: this comment was translated [80]), [81].
3. Other incivilities [82] [83] [84] [85] [86] [87] [88] [89] [90] [91] [92] [93] [94] [95] [96] [97] [98] [99] [100] [101] Zmmz 20:40, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
User certainly lacks etiquette. But also fails to assume good faith to warn others first, methodically reporting them for 3RR, sometimes incorrectly: [102] [103] [104] [105] [106]
Ive seen this user remove comments and warnings from his talkpage and removing other's comments from discussion pages as well, moving articles entirely such as parsi etc. without discussing anything with anyone.
When confronted, he engages in combative behaviour with other editors such as User:ManiF (which Ive personally seen), instead of trying to resolve things by talk. That's why I rarely engage this user (Aucaman) at all. It disrupts any attempt to make some real contribution. All ones time will be waisted on quarreling with no ending. That's not why I'm here on WP.
It cannot escape the notice of outside observers such as myself that people such as him make optimal use of gaming the system, and that is a bad precedent for WP.
Interesting is that, as far as these edit wars go, the obvious pattern is that Aucaman seems to be obsessed with only Iranian articles. I dont see this user engaging in edit wars anywhere else.-- Zereshk 08:14, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
User pushes POV
Recently Aucaman has been POV-pushing on the
Ruhollah Khomeini page. He insists on adding a paragraph called "views on non-Muslims", although this is disputed by several other users, who have explained that the Shi'a tradition of ritual purity is not unique to Khomeini, and is common to most, if not all Shi'a theologians. Despite this, he continues to add the paragraph (
[112]
[113]
[114]) and revert about it (
[115]
[116]
[117]
[118]
[119])
User removes people's comments
I've caught Aucaman deleting the comments of others on talk pages - specifically at Talk:Iranian peoples. Just because the comments were unsigned, there isn't any justification for this. [120] [121] [122] [123] [124] -- Khoikhoi 08:41, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
WP:NPOV violations
Bad faith
Hi, regarding your proposal here [154]; the aforementioned articles, namely Parsi, Persian people, and Iranian people that show I had engaged in edit-warring in, are actually a few weeks old. At some point, I took the advice of the admins to heart, and did not become frustrated by Aucaman`s offensive edits, rather left those articles. It has been a month and a half since then, and I have taken Wiki even more seriously, moreover, I had made numerous attempts, with some success at compromising with various other editors (in some cases, such as the Persian Gulf article the long edit wars ceased after I intervened). Here are some diffs showing my successful attempts at compromising with various other editors,
Hello I was asked to add a comment here by Zmmz. I would generally say I have an opposite POV on the articles where I have come into contact with Zmmz, but in the cases where we have had serious conflicts we have been able to compromise. Zmmz definetely has a stong POV, but I think it would be wrong to block him from editing these articles since on the whole I think he makes useful additions. I think it is kinda strange that out of all the Pro-Iranian editors it is Zmmz that has been picked on, since he is easily the most reasonable and not to mention courteus of all of these users.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 23:28, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
(Copied from above link) Ditto to most everything Moshe just said. In my case, I had a brief conflict with Zmmz a couple months ago when he was brand new on the scene here, and still did not know all the ropes - but we were indeed soon able to reach a compromise that was satisfactory to everyone, by each giving a little... From what I can tell, he seems to have adjusted to becoming a "wikipedian" remarkably swiftly; and since this here is the first time I have ever commented on any arbcom case in any way, it could be said that he is more experienced than I am in certain areas! ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 14:25, 15 April 2006 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Codex Sinaiticus ( talk • contribs)
I must agree with all of user:Moshe's comments above. I was in a pretty good debate with Moshe where Zmmz made strong efforts to mediate, and to maintain an air of civility and a spirit of community. My experiences with Zmmz came on the Talk:Persian Jews page, where he showed great willingness to compromise and find consensus. For those concerned, a quick read (!) of the talk page there should answer lots of questions about the behaviour of all these editors. - black thorn of brethil 00:12, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I agree with the comments above regarding zmmz and his ability and willingness to compromise. I have seen it many times. Also, I think it would be a bad idea to block him since as Moshe said, he makes useful additions. Gol 20:01, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
I have never been blatantly uncivil to other editors, since I have joined Wiki. Zmmz 18:28, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
I agree with this comment as well. I have closely followed many of the discussions he was part of and I don’t ever remember him being uncivil. Gol 20:02, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
These evidence are in regards to user Zora ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who may have a pre-meditated pro or against agenda before she edits an article, which makes it highly inappropriate to edit an encyclopedia. Due to her “anti-nationalist” ideology [179], it is at [best] plausible to assume, and frankly fair to dismiss some of the multiple disputes put forth by this user in articles relating to Iran, or Persia: she has an obssesion with these articles, indicating there is no such thing as a “Persian culture”, or even “Persian people” per se. For the past year and a half, she has spread labels such as "gang", "Iranian gang", “Nationalists chauvinists”, or “Persian chauvinists” etc., that does nothing but spread racism and hatred among fellow editors, and sponsors a hostile environment.
The user engages in edit-warring in all articles related to Islam, Muslims, and Arabs, diverging into articles about Iran/Persia. The following articles include, Islamic conquest of Persia, Battle of Karbala, Muawiyah I, Aisha, Zakir Naik, Muhammad, Husayn ibn Ali, Salafi, Richard Nelson Frye, Persian people, Iranian people, Khuzestan, Ahvaz, Rumi and perhaps elsewhere. Many times, only one edit or revertion of her is enough to cascade an edit-war, while keeping in mind, many of her disputes are buried in discussion pages. Many times she edits/reverts articles, even though she may have no historical knowledge of the factual content of some of these articles; she may do so due to her sympathy for the minority political groups, Zora herself stating, Abolish the U.S.! Abolish the Islamic Republic of Iran!...I spit on all flags...!, Zora herself claiming to be “..a heretic anti-nationalist American”, here too, as compared to for pure academic reasons here (e.g. the repeated indications of the possible Turkish origin of a particular scientist, is historically inaccurate, and not found in any academic sources, such that at his time the Turks had not invaded/mixed with Persians in that area; it occured 250 years later). As the subsequent diffs show, the user’s claims that others push a POV, and that she neutralizes articles in an NPOV fashion are reciprocal in nature to this edit-warring here [180] [181] [182] [183] [184] [185] [186] [187] [188] [189] [190] [191] [192] [193] [194] [195] [196] [197] [198] [199] [200] [201] [202] [203] [204] [205] [206] [207] [208] [209] [210] [211] [212] [213] [214] [215] [216] [217] [218] [219] [220] [221] [222] [223] [224] [225] [226] [227] [228] [229].
[230] [231] [232] [233] [234] [235] [236] [237] [238] [239] [240] [241] [242] [243] [244] [245] [246] [247] [248] [249] [250] [251]
[254] [255] [256] [257] [258] [259] [260] [261] [262]
As per Wikipedia is not an experiment in anarchy.
” (poop)
[296] [297] [298] [299] Zmmz 00:44, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Zmmz charges that I have a POV: "she may have a pre-meditated pro or against agenda before she edits an article, which makes it highly inappropriate to edit an encyclopedia."
Of course I have a POV. Multiple POVs. Everyone does. That's why I believe in NPOV. I give the best case for my POV (if it's notable), other editors give their best cases, and the reader decides. When people do that, it usually settles WP disputes -- if not the real life ones underlying the WP disputes.
He says: "she has an obssesion with these articles, indicating there is no such thing as a “Persian culture”, or even “Persian people” per se. "
I have said, over and over, that I do not believe in cultures as "bounded entities", as per structuralism, or structural-functionalism. It's not just me: read the WP articles on Nationalism and Ethnicity. Zmmz seems to think that cultures are "facts" or "objects", as concrete as a chair. I, and others, are saying that who belongs and who doesn't, who gets to say what is included in "Persian culture" and what isn't, is a matter for negotiation, and constant renegotiation, and that people have various motives for taking the stands that they do. This is not "original research". This is a respectable academic stance. It is espoused by authors such as Anthony Smith, Ernest Gellner, Eric Hobsbawm, Prasenjit Duara, Benedict Anderson, James Clifford, Dan Sperber. Academics hold conferences on the subject, such as this one [300] that just finished at the University of North Carolina,
Zmmz tells me that an encyclopedia should only include the mainstream view and exclude new or radical views. Usually, WP editors take pride in how up-to-date WP is.
Zmmz blames me for causing controversy. Controversy is wrong? I thought we -- and all intellectual endeavor- -- thrived on it. As long as views are notable, none should be excluded from WP just to keep things pleasant. If editors are willing to set aside a section for the minority or opposing views, there's no problem; it's only when other views are forcibly suppressed that dispute arises.
Zmmz accuses me of "frivolous edit-warring in all articles related to Islam, Muslims, and Arabs, diverging into articles about Iran/Persia.” Frivolous? I'm iconoclastic, at times, but not frivolous. I think if you asked most of the editors in the non-Iranian subjects to which I contribute, they'd say that I argued hard, admitted error when I made a mistake, tried to compromise, and contributed lots of good articles and material. Look at my user page. Look at my edit count. I don't keep a boast list of articles I've started, but I've created quite a few. I have made enemies (look at my user page!) but I think I've made more friends than enemies. If you actually look at the edits that Zmmz says are evidence of "warring", you'll see me saying things like, "No, you can't put PBUH after Muhammad, this is a secular encyclopedia", or "How about this? will this work for you?" I looked over his long list of "proofs" that I'm a bad editor, and I don't see one of which I'm ashamed.
Zmmz believes that I violate verifiability by refusing to accept the Encyclopedia Britannica as the final word on a subject. Yes, I dismiss general interest encyclopedias as sources. A peer-reviewed scholarly article or a recent book from an academic press has much more weight than the Encyclopedia Brittanica.
He accuses me of discrediting Frye. I haven't discredited Frye -- I couldn't. I have doubted, publicly, that an 86 year old scholar is keeping up with the latest research. He republished his 1975 The Golden Age of Persia in 1999, and added a forward saying that he saw no need to revise his work in any way, since "no new discoveries or revision of our period of history have appeared". To a scholar, the claim that nothing new has appeared in the last 25 years is ... mindboggling. It is perfectly OK to doubt and question -- particularly when it's on a talk page. I didn't put any of that in the article. In fact, I emailed Frye and asked him to check out the article for accuracy. Would I have done that if I had masterminded a hatchet job on him?
Zmmz claims that I'm violating WP:POINT because I don't fall in line with his views of things. He accuses me of "trying to erase the Persian ethnicity of Rumi". Hmm, that's assuming that he's right and I'm wrong, which is not a given. It's not "disrupting WP to make a point" to argue with Zmmz.
Zmmz accuses me of being uncivil and then gives a list of quotes. I really can't see that any of them are personal attacks. If you look at his diffs, and the context of my remarks, what you’ll see is me discussing my political opinions on a personal talk page, asking an angry editor to calm down, arguing vigorously – but no personal attacks. What I call a personal attack is something like this [301]. I have taken such assaults in silence rather than running to admins. I hope that anyone reading this can see the difference between a real personal attack and argument, or between attacking someone to his or her face, and making a political comment on a friend's talk page.
If someone comes to me and says, "You're hurting my feelings, please don't say X," I'll listen. I don't want to gratuitously hurt someone's feelings. But I do not like being stalked for "evidence" that I'm a bad person, or accused of incivility if I argue vigorously.
This is a second version of my defense; I didn’t see the warning to keep it under 1000 words, so I’ve been cutting drastically. He has slung a great many accusations at me, and I don’t really have space to discuss them all. If he’s going to attack me, I wish he’d do it in a separate Request for Arbitration, so that I’d have room to defend myself. Zora 18:13, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
All i can say is that Zora cant claim not to have a POV. I've noticed while editing India articles she relies heavily on scholars adhereing to a particular ideology and isists on allowing only HER version of article and completely disregarding other's POV. She dismisses he detractors or people whose POV doesnt agree with her's as mere insane nationalists, extremists and zealots. Whenever something is amiss in Indian she automatically blames everything on Hindutva [304] , [305]. Her failure to see that people being individuals have an opinion and are not always part of some monolithic nationalist conspiracy tends to get irritating. अमेय आर्यन DaBroodey 18:56, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
How does one prove a negative? The following four pages have been named as examples where Zora engaged in disruptive edit-warring:
I absolutely fail to see how this editing pattern could be described as edit-warring. Lukas (T.| @) 16:35, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Lukas (T.| @) 07:31, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm not quite sure how these RfArs work, but I think I can add my two cents in here. This seems like the most appropriate topic for me to add in my view. The only person involved in this RfAr that I have worked with in the past is Zora, and the only article from the above list that I have edited and watch is Aisha. For the former, I have had minimal problems with Zora. She is usually fair in her editing and reverting. She doesn't, atleast from my watch, edit war. I feel confident enough in her editing that often times I don't need to check the diff links on certain pages, simply because she was the last one to edit the page. The Aisha page is a page of much controversy at times. Many anti-Islam editors will approach that article to disparage Islam as much as possible by calling Muhammad a pedophile and other such hate filled comments. As far as I've seen, Zora has maintained the integrity of the article, and by extension, the integrity of Wikipedia as a whole. Pepsidrinka 02:37, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Before everything I apologize if this comment is completely irrelevant. I have not read the discussion here but I was surprised to see that Zora is accused of doing edit-warring!!! I have found her too knowledgeable, quite mild, and logical. I may not agree with her on some issues but all of us have the right to have our own opinion. I will never ever believe she joins a revert war. No way! Even if it happens, there should be a good reason for that. I don't know what her charges exactly are, but I am Persian and her edits has never bothered me. Were she anti-Persian, I should have felt it. My POV is that if an editor like Zora encounters any penalties, this should be mentioned in the "criticism of wikipedia" article. I am sorry if this was not the place to add this comment. Feel free to remove this comment if it is not relevant. -- Aminz 02:29, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
I am fairly new to wikipedia, and known Zora since the day I started at wikipedia. She is an extremely knowledgeable person and quite polite most of the time. Once I have noticed she being incivil, in the Muhammed talk page, hey we all have our bad times. She is quick to revert things if she doesn't agree with something, but most of the time she does make a good case. Once she removed an entry that I added in the Muhammed page saying it is Hagiography when there was very good reference see here. I sometimes have mixed feelings about Zora's behaviour, and do not always agree with her way of doing things. But I have good faith in her and I personaly think punishing her would demotivate other good contributors. Mystic 16:11, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I must say I have been watching user Zora closely in the recent times and her behaviour has changed completely, I no longer endorse Zora as a good wikipedian, she continues to be rude, self centered and completely ignores the efforts of the other wikipedians. Just take look at her talk page right now. She assumes that she is the foremost authority in all the subjects she's contributing, and mercilessly removes contributions by others that she doesn't agree with. She also fails to assume good faith and uses rude language see this diff here «₪Mÿš†íc₪» (T) 06:43, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Zora is a fair and bold editor on many Islamic articles. I've had several disagreements with her, but she is usually willing to compromise and keeps POV away on the Islam articles. The article Aisha is one of them and she helps many of the editors on the page keep the horrible anti Islamic comments and vandalism off the page. I do not know her editing style on Persian articles, but according to what I've seen on my long time working with her, she keeps many articles clean and encyclopedic even if it makes her very easy to blame for something like edit warring. -- a.n.o.n.y.m t 19:25, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I think it may be inappropriate, that even in the ArbCom case, User:LukasPietsch is attempting to marginalize other’s grievances. He has consistently tried to tie these disputes to the current geo political climate, and he has done nothing constructive, but to spread racism and hatred by labeling others. I hear is just a lot ambivalence, nothing substantive. What he indicates is slander.
From the start, when Lukas began to get involve, and represent Aucaman as an advocate in the Rfc I set-up for him, in which not surprisingly Aucaman showed almost no interest in, Lukas has engaged in grossly inappropriate inflammatory exchanges with other users involved on the opposite side. I have yet to see any evidence of his willingness to compromise. As an `Advocate`, instead of displaying a certain amount of magnanimity, and good spirit towards other Wikpedia members, to demonstrate an spirit of community and cooperation, he has harassed, and intimidated other users. He has indicated, in more than one instance that, “...this has to stop, and right now I feel inclined to do whatever it takes to make it stop.”, and right from the start, to this day, assuming, “This is an institutionalisation of this nationalist factionalising....which is a deeper-seated problem....involving poltical nationalists” [334].
1. Kashk`s, followed by user MysticRum`s well-intentioned inquiry to Lukas, indicating, does as an advocate Lukas allow this behaviour by Aucaman? [348]
2. Lukas`s response to MysticRum`s grievances: “Yawn. This incident has been discussed to death, I've commented on it earlier myself, he's himself done all the explaining it needed.....Now stop it”. [349]
3. Lukas`s response to MysticRum, after MysticRum expressed shocked that as a newcomer (see the second diff), such things occur in Wiki: “Please re-read every single word of what I said above, try to take it in, and then go away”. [350] [351]
He is promoting a hostile environment. He has failed yet, to assume good faith about others involved; there has not been [one] instance that comes to mind in which User:LukasPietsch has been whole-heartedly courteous to what he refers to as, the “Iranian nationalists”, “Iranian factionalizes ”, “the masterminds behind all this”, and “Nationalist mudsling”, whose some contributions to a noticeboard may be a “...a disgrace to Wikipedia ”.
Such behaviour is a bad precedent to set in Wiki, and it is as such toxic to the health of an encyclopedia. I will not operate in fear of retribution by user Lukas; rather, I fear the ramification of the clash of ideologies in an academic source that is, an encyclopedia of all places. I do hope that the committee will not look kindly upon such behaviour. No one is above the policies here, not even someone as intelligent, saavy, and well-connected as Lukas.
Zmmz 07:56, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Note: The following were prepared in close cooperation with User:LukasPietsch, but User:Aucaman is responsible for the accuracy of the evidence. The first part focuses on the general behavior of these users, whereas the second part focuses on the specific behaviors.
This group, which has been acting in close concert, includes:
Other users in the background:
Other users:
See some examples here.
There were several editors who expressed at least partial support for his views regarding the term "Aryan", among them User:Dbachmann, User:Ed Poor, User:Tombseye, Afghan Historian, User:LukasPietsch, and User:Zora.
At some point this users determined that I had no business being on Wikipedia ( [427]). In order to implement this decision,
Due to his actions described above, he was blocked for "harassment". These are all in addition to him going around spamming various users telling them about my "Zionist intentions" etc. etc.
This user is the most disruptive one by far. Has been blocked for personal attacks many times. Also has been using sockpuppets to circumvent blocks and over-represent his side (see here). I'm not going to bother listing his personal attacks, but his contributions to my talk page would make a good set of evidence against him. Other accounts used by this user:
There were several editors who expressed at least partial support for his views regarding the term "Aryan", among them User:Dbachmann, one of the most competent Wikipedians in the field ( [457], [458]).
While Aucaman's edits at Persian people have been clearly controversial, he has not been revert-warring to any excessive extent, except with respect to the {disputed} tag he wanted to have included. This was an understandable attempt to reach at least a symbolic acknowledgment from his opponents that his views were part of a legitimate dispute and not simply disruption. Justified in the matter, though misguided in the means. Aucaman's contributions to the content were mostly constructive, reasonably well referenced and properly argued.
— Khoikhoi 06:07, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
The evidence are in regards to Diyako ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)/ Xebat ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) who had collabrated with User:Aucaman [476], and he himself engaged in extremely disruptive behaviour. The user has been blocked multiple times, and is currently blocked for three months. My fear is User:Xebat will come back with another username, like he did before, but this time more cautious in disrupting articles; nevertheless, still tangent to edit-warring, and occasional incivilities.
User has engaged in persistent edit-warring in the following articles,
neccisary) if you will not act civilly” vs. “Jusht sho you know, I've now exhtended youl plocq fol a peliod of one mounth, and it kan bee exhtended fulthel (indefinatly, if nechchisaly) if you wil not act chivilly. The above comment ish..” (former by admin, later by Xebat).
terrorists vandalising this forum and no one cares.” [484].
proud for that. I feel myself a hero.” [488].
"In fact I am discussing with a racist Qashqai turk pasdar terrorist pro ahmadinejad who even do not recognize UN emblem and think it is PDK's" [492]
"You may not LIKE to be reminded of your Arab heritage" [495]
These users who, as demonstrated above, share strong negative feelings toward Iranians, collaborate and coordinate their efforts with User:Aucaman and each other, through emailing and talk page conversations, to inject controversial and potentially offensive racial, religious, or political views into Iran-related articles.
On several internet fora, Zora, under the name of Karen Lofstrom, posts about her work on Wikipedia describing her interest and involvement in the project as having been "sucked into Wikipedia" for a "fierce" "online duel" agaisnt "Iranian nationalists" , and declaring "Cthulhu vs. a bunch of Nazis? Oh, I am sure *our* side would win hands down!". [547], [548], [549], all the while admitting that she lacks references and has little or no knowledge of the subjects at hand.
More evidence might be submitted later on, as I'm currently busy in real life -- ManiF 22:57, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Mani, that is just so ... silly. You've reported the same message twice (it's the same thing on different sites that mirror Google groups). That was a post to the Usenet newsgroup rec.arts.sf.fandom, made a YEAR ago. I wasn't asking for help. I didn't even mention the articles involved. I was just amused at being told I was a Bengali. The post then sparked a 564-post thread that ranged over heck-and-gone, but with some attention to saris [550]. The best place to look up Usenet posts is on Google groups -- though perhaps, having told you that, I can expect to have things I posted to Usenet back in 1992 dragged out for inspection as proof of my evil nature. You mistook my signature block for part of the message, and decided that it was sinister, instead of funny. As for your third cite (which is actually a second post), that was an attempt to get information about a subject. Also posted on Usenet, on sci.archaeology, some ten months ago. I did not ask people to jump over to Wikipedia and support me; I asked for references to excavation reports. Here's the exchange, from Google: [551].
Y'know, I think there's a distinction between chatting with my friends, asking for information, and posting notices begging people to come fight for Iran.
Further points: