- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a request for adminship that did not succeed. Please do not modify it.
Zereshk
Final (4/6/0) ended 02:34 10/27/05 (UTC)
Zereshk ( talk · contribs) – My first interaction with Zereshk was on the Islamic Golden Age where Zereshk has helped to cleanup and expand what was once a mediocre article. I believe he can be trusted not to abuse administrative powers. 5948 total edits with 892 on talk. freestylefrappe 00:23, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I gladly would accept. Thank You.-- Zereshk 01:08, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
- I'd much rather not be an admin, than have people dig out dirt from my past and lie about it, just as a way of getting back at me. I have my dignity. I am a scholar and do not have time for such cheap fights. How sad that "using the wiki code properly", is more important than actually contributing to the content. I really appreciate Freestylefrappe suggesting me. He was kind to me. But I take back my Yes answer above, after seeing all this. I can continue to contribute without being an admin.-- Zereshk 02:34, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Support
- Strong Support as nominator. freestylefrappe 00:24, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
- Support F.a.y. تبادله خيال /c 21:13, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
- Support Puts great effort in to wikipedia articles. -- a.n.o.n.y.m t 21:25, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
- Support - Svest 21:48, 26 October 2005 (UTC) Wiki me up™
Oppose
- Strongly oppose -- Zereshk could have predicted this. We have actually managed to broker some compromises lately, but this reasonableness is so recent that I have strong doubts about giving him admin powers at the present moment.
- I have clashed with him again and again re what I see as extremely Iranian nationalist and Shi'a POV edits. He has removed POV tags without discussion and has ignored mediation efforts. For an example of his tendency to write POV articles, see Misconceptions about The Shia. I have protested this article as inaccurate and POV and been ignored. I pointed out that the extremely respected English scholar Wilferd Madelung has specialized in Shi'a history and published numerous books and articles on the subject, but Zereshk retains an outdated quote from E.G. Browne, from a work published in 1928-1930, re the paucity of Shi'a studies. It is unfair and misleading to use a 75 year old quote to describe current Islamic scholarship.
- Aside from my personal clashes with Zereshk, he has a long history of copyright violation. He has uploaded pictures that he obtained online, without proper attribution, and he has created numerous articles that are mere cut-n-pastes of text on Iranian websites. He asserted that this was allowable because Iran had not subscribed to world copyright conventions, and that material published in Iran was fair game [1]. User:Roozbeh clashed repeatedly with Zereshk on this matter, and eventually took the matter up the chain of authority to Jimbo, who declared that copyright convention or not, Wikipedia did not allow plagiarism [2]. Note Roozbeh's plea to Zereshk not to cuss him out in Farsi.
- I hope that this oppose vote does not destroy the fragile understanding that I seem to have reached with Zereshk. We all grow and change, and I have hopes that a year from now, a promotion to admin would be entirely appropriate.
Zora 23:13, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
- Yes, I was expecting Zora's muckraking slanders to emerge here. She follows me around everywhere picking fights with me :)
- I really dont mind if I get admin powers or not. Im here to contribute. Not to argue. Being an admin would only be a side benefit. It is not essential, and I am only here because I was invited.
- Zora refers to E.G. Browne as being outdated. But she dismisses references I provided from Nasr (who is far more knowledgable than anyone Zora has brought, including Madelung), and in fact she dismissed references (on Shia pages) from EVERY and ALL sources from Qom that I provided, which is the capital of Shia scholarship. That is outrageously ethnocentric (claiming western academic sources only to be reliable). Furthermore, her own source (Madelung) uses these "outdated" sources frequently in his book.
- Note on the Misconceptions about The Shia page: I was the one who protested and put the POV tag up. Zora was the one who ignored me and erased the tag. Check the page history.
- Zora's claim about copyright issues is false and she is using this accusation here with full knowledge that she is incorrect. The tag { { PD-Iran } } was in fact made to address Roozbeh's concern and claim that all old Shah era images that I had uploaded were (according to him) copyright vioed, in which he was wrong. As for me using sharp language against Roozbeh, well I was only responding. His case has a long history. If you think I am the only one here angry with Roozbeh's condescending attitudes (abusing his powers as an admin), why dont you go and read and see what other people have to say about him on the farsi WP? Why dont you ask all other Persian editors about Roozbeh?
- The link Zora refers to is from a govt website in Iran. Anything from Iran's govt websites is NOT Protected by US copyright Law. [3]. The only people talking about their copyrights are Roozbeh and (now) Zora.-- Zereshk 01:38, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
- Yes, I was expecting Zora's muckraking slanders to emerge here. She follows me around everywhere picking fights with me :)
- Seems to have issues with civility and little concern for copyright issues, both of which are necessities for a Wikipedia admin.-- nixie 00:54, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Neutral, candidate makes very sparse use of edit summaries. -- Sn0wflake 22:52, 26 October 2005 (UTC)Oppose, it bothers me that the editor can't even use wiki code properly. Definitely needs more experience. -- Sn0wflake 02:05, 27 October 2005 (UTC)- Oppose: While the comments by the nominee here might not strictly violate WP:NPA, they do violate the spirit of WP:CIVIL. I don't think this editor is ready for adminship. -- Durin 04:25, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
- Oppose. Absolutely not. I don't like seeing the candidate being uncivil on his own RFA. Linuxbeak | Talk 04:53, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
- Oppose: I have a lot of respect for Zereshk and his many excellent contributions, but I am seriously dismayed both by his repeated copyright violations and his complete lack of insight into the inappropriateness of these. Indeed instead of dealing with the fall-out he has tended to shoot the messenger. Unless there is a serious change in attitude and behaviour I feel he should not be an admin. Refdoc 21:02, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Neutral
Comments
- Use of edit summaries over last 5000 edits is 27%, over last 500 it's 45%. Regardless of the outcome of this RfA, please use edit summaries more frequently. -- Durin 21:44, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
- "I stand on my ground vis a vis my attacks on Zora"?! WP:NPA is one of our most basic and fundamental principals, ahem. Dmcdevit· t 00:31, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
- Attacks on an argument and in debate are different from personal attacks. Aside from "ignorant" (and "arrogant", which she is) which I called her, I challenge you or anyone to bring up any personal attacks directed against Zora.-- Zereshk 01:43, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Questions for the candidate
A few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:
- 1. What sysop chores, if any, would you anticipate helping with? (Please read the page about
administrators and the
administrators' reading list.)
- A. Help out with the Main Page at times when needed. Iranian, Persian, Shiite, and related topics frequently show up on the news. I can help out with the presentation. Particularly that I keep a watchful eye on the news and domestic current events in Iran and her neighbors.
- B. Delete discarded or repeated images. I have uploaded alot of images in the past. I need to be able to delete the old ones, as I continue to upload better images that are less prone to any shaky copyright status (i.e. everyone is positively positively certain and happy with its copyright status). Usually, this means replacing Fairuse images with a similar image of myself (or known GFDL or PD status), and deleting the older version. Sometimes I just upload a better resolution pic, or just a better image as a replacement.
- C. Taking care of obvious vandalisms. By obvious, I mean really obvious vandalisms, like this edit. I do not intend to get involved in the page deletion business as it takes too much of my little time, considering that my primary goal is largely to contribute, rather than to do mere house keeping. I'll leave the deletion business to more adept admins.
- D. Acting as a coordination node for Iranian/Persian/Shia related pages. People usually need some info on how tos, or need something done (like update an image that does not get updated despite having been replaced), or ask questions, or need to verify some info or translation (like this example), or need some organizing tips. They ask around, but an active admin with in-depth knowledge of those topics is usually not found on WP. If I advertise myself as an admin available for such help (for example here), it will facilitate many many things for other contributors. The Iranian/Persian pages are very uncoordinated at present.-- Zereshk 21:03, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
- 2. Of your articles or contributions to Wikipedia, are there any about which you are particularly pleased, and why?
- A. Iranian architecture, because there was NOTHING about Persian architecture before it. The page took alot of my energy and time to construct.
- B. Howard Baskerville, because info like this is badly needed. (America and Iran have not always been at war with eachother)
- C. I composed 20 or so of the 30 provinces in Iran. Im particularly happy about that, because this was some crucial geographic info that was previously empty and missing.
- D. My crown achievement: List of Iranian scientists. Youll notice that not only did I compose the list, I also composed 75% or more of the individual entries listed as well. This list was advertised on www.payvand.com/news 3 months ago.
- WP is the first place on the web containing such info.-- Zereshk 21:03, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
- 3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?
- A. User:Zora tops the list in this category. We've had lots of heated exchanges. (usually, more of the heat is coming from me I admit, though she does throw in a lot of mischief). But in the end, we get along with eachother, one way or the other. Either I usually lay off, or I convince her somehow to back off. Or we reach some sort of backdoor negotiating compromise (such as in our latest case, where things were solved by email). I stand on my ground vis a vis my attacks on Zora. I dont think calling someone "ignorant" is an insult. But I do like her for her honesty and integrity. And I use her as a standard and yard stick for other social encounters. If I can get along with her, I can get along with most people I come across. So Im actually happy about our exchanges.
- B. There have been others occasionally. For example, there was User:UHCollegian. But in that case, we had a lot of other Texan editors jump in and sort out the conflict.
- I honestly do expect encounters to show up again frequently. After all, the areas Im editing in are perfect breeding grounds for ideological conflict and encounters: Islam-Shia-Sunni-Iran-Ayatollahs-Iran/Iraq war- you name it. Like for example, there is this anon guy ( 70.28.32.90 ) going around changing the nationalities of Iranian scientists into "Afghan" ones. This is problematic. By "Afghan", if they were Dari, then they were full Persians, and he is wrong. If Pashtun, then perhaps he has a point, but then again they were still vassal affiliates of the old Persia, because Afghanistan as a political country only came into being in the past 3-4 centuries. Their culture is identical to that of eastern Iran. (Khorasan comprised of both today's Iran and Afghanistan, and the Persian empire had its capital in modern Afghanistan on many occasions). He is definitely wrong about examples like this. Unless he has explicit documentation, Jorjan ( Gorgan) was never even remotely associated with Afghansitan. So you see, these issues are contentious by nature. But I see where he's coming from. He is trying to portray his nation and creed as proud and respectable. And that is noble, considering what plight his country has gone thru in the recent times. A solution is to help people like him find info on scientists that were actually full Afghans (not related to Persia or Iran), and help him compose a list of Afghan scientists. I did this for Arab scientists when they started clashing with me on the Persian vs Arab identity of many scientists. I gathered a list of pure arab scientist names from NLM's website (Nat'l Lib of Medicine), forwarded it to some WP Arab editors, and it worked. They were happy. And all was satisfied.
- It's hard, but it can be done. -- Zereshk 21:03, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a request for adminship that did not succeed. Please do not modify it.
Zereshk
Final (4/6/0) ended 02:34 10/27/05 (UTC)
Zereshk ( talk · contribs) – My first interaction with Zereshk was on the Islamic Golden Age where Zereshk has helped to cleanup and expand what was once a mediocre article. I believe he can be trusted not to abuse administrative powers. 5948 total edits with 892 on talk. freestylefrappe 00:23, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I gladly would accept. Thank You.-- Zereshk 01:08, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
- I'd much rather not be an admin, than have people dig out dirt from my past and lie about it, just as a way of getting back at me. I have my dignity. I am a scholar and do not have time for such cheap fights. How sad that "using the wiki code properly", is more important than actually contributing to the content. I really appreciate Freestylefrappe suggesting me. He was kind to me. But I take back my Yes answer above, after seeing all this. I can continue to contribute without being an admin.-- Zereshk 02:34, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Support
- Strong Support as nominator. freestylefrappe 00:24, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
- Support F.a.y. تبادله خيال /c 21:13, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
- Support Puts great effort in to wikipedia articles. -- a.n.o.n.y.m t 21:25, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
- Support - Svest 21:48, 26 October 2005 (UTC) Wiki me up™
Oppose
- Strongly oppose -- Zereshk could have predicted this. We have actually managed to broker some compromises lately, but this reasonableness is so recent that I have strong doubts about giving him admin powers at the present moment.
- I have clashed with him again and again re what I see as extremely Iranian nationalist and Shi'a POV edits. He has removed POV tags without discussion and has ignored mediation efforts. For an example of his tendency to write POV articles, see Misconceptions about The Shia. I have protested this article as inaccurate and POV and been ignored. I pointed out that the extremely respected English scholar Wilferd Madelung has specialized in Shi'a history and published numerous books and articles on the subject, but Zereshk retains an outdated quote from E.G. Browne, from a work published in 1928-1930, re the paucity of Shi'a studies. It is unfair and misleading to use a 75 year old quote to describe current Islamic scholarship.
- Aside from my personal clashes with Zereshk, he has a long history of copyright violation. He has uploaded pictures that he obtained online, without proper attribution, and he has created numerous articles that are mere cut-n-pastes of text on Iranian websites. He asserted that this was allowable because Iran had not subscribed to world copyright conventions, and that material published in Iran was fair game [1]. User:Roozbeh clashed repeatedly with Zereshk on this matter, and eventually took the matter up the chain of authority to Jimbo, who declared that copyright convention or not, Wikipedia did not allow plagiarism [2]. Note Roozbeh's plea to Zereshk not to cuss him out in Farsi.
- I hope that this oppose vote does not destroy the fragile understanding that I seem to have reached with Zereshk. We all grow and change, and I have hopes that a year from now, a promotion to admin would be entirely appropriate.
Zora 23:13, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
- Yes, I was expecting Zora's muckraking slanders to emerge here. She follows me around everywhere picking fights with me :)
- I really dont mind if I get admin powers or not. Im here to contribute. Not to argue. Being an admin would only be a side benefit. It is not essential, and I am only here because I was invited.
- Zora refers to E.G. Browne as being outdated. But she dismisses references I provided from Nasr (who is far more knowledgable than anyone Zora has brought, including Madelung), and in fact she dismissed references (on Shia pages) from EVERY and ALL sources from Qom that I provided, which is the capital of Shia scholarship. That is outrageously ethnocentric (claiming western academic sources only to be reliable). Furthermore, her own source (Madelung) uses these "outdated" sources frequently in his book.
- Note on the Misconceptions about The Shia page: I was the one who protested and put the POV tag up. Zora was the one who ignored me and erased the tag. Check the page history.
- Zora's claim about copyright issues is false and she is using this accusation here with full knowledge that she is incorrect. The tag { { PD-Iran } } was in fact made to address Roozbeh's concern and claim that all old Shah era images that I had uploaded were (according to him) copyright vioed, in which he was wrong. As for me using sharp language against Roozbeh, well I was only responding. His case has a long history. If you think I am the only one here angry with Roozbeh's condescending attitudes (abusing his powers as an admin), why dont you go and read and see what other people have to say about him on the farsi WP? Why dont you ask all other Persian editors about Roozbeh?
- The link Zora refers to is from a govt website in Iran. Anything from Iran's govt websites is NOT Protected by US copyright Law. [3]. The only people talking about their copyrights are Roozbeh and (now) Zora.-- Zereshk 01:38, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
- Yes, I was expecting Zora's muckraking slanders to emerge here. She follows me around everywhere picking fights with me :)
- Seems to have issues with civility and little concern for copyright issues, both of which are necessities for a Wikipedia admin.-- nixie 00:54, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Neutral, candidate makes very sparse use of edit summaries. -- Sn0wflake 22:52, 26 October 2005 (UTC)Oppose, it bothers me that the editor can't even use wiki code properly. Definitely needs more experience. -- Sn0wflake 02:05, 27 October 2005 (UTC)- Oppose: While the comments by the nominee here might not strictly violate WP:NPA, they do violate the spirit of WP:CIVIL. I don't think this editor is ready for adminship. -- Durin 04:25, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
- Oppose. Absolutely not. I don't like seeing the candidate being uncivil on his own RFA. Linuxbeak | Talk 04:53, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
- Oppose: I have a lot of respect for Zereshk and his many excellent contributions, but I am seriously dismayed both by his repeated copyright violations and his complete lack of insight into the inappropriateness of these. Indeed instead of dealing with the fall-out he has tended to shoot the messenger. Unless there is a serious change in attitude and behaviour I feel he should not be an admin. Refdoc 21:02, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Neutral
Comments
- Use of edit summaries over last 5000 edits is 27%, over last 500 it's 45%. Regardless of the outcome of this RfA, please use edit summaries more frequently. -- Durin 21:44, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
- "I stand on my ground vis a vis my attacks on Zora"?! WP:NPA is one of our most basic and fundamental principals, ahem. Dmcdevit· t 00:31, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
- Attacks on an argument and in debate are different from personal attacks. Aside from "ignorant" (and "arrogant", which she is) which I called her, I challenge you or anyone to bring up any personal attacks directed against Zora.-- Zereshk 01:43, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Questions for the candidate
A few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:
- 1. What sysop chores, if any, would you anticipate helping with? (Please read the page about
administrators and the
administrators' reading list.)
- A. Help out with the Main Page at times when needed. Iranian, Persian, Shiite, and related topics frequently show up on the news. I can help out with the presentation. Particularly that I keep a watchful eye on the news and domestic current events in Iran and her neighbors.
- B. Delete discarded or repeated images. I have uploaded alot of images in the past. I need to be able to delete the old ones, as I continue to upload better images that are less prone to any shaky copyright status (i.e. everyone is positively positively certain and happy with its copyright status). Usually, this means replacing Fairuse images with a similar image of myself (or known GFDL or PD status), and deleting the older version. Sometimes I just upload a better resolution pic, or just a better image as a replacement.
- C. Taking care of obvious vandalisms. By obvious, I mean really obvious vandalisms, like this edit. I do not intend to get involved in the page deletion business as it takes too much of my little time, considering that my primary goal is largely to contribute, rather than to do mere house keeping. I'll leave the deletion business to more adept admins.
- D. Acting as a coordination node for Iranian/Persian/Shia related pages. People usually need some info on how tos, or need something done (like update an image that does not get updated despite having been replaced), or ask questions, or need to verify some info or translation (like this example), or need some organizing tips. They ask around, but an active admin with in-depth knowledge of those topics is usually not found on WP. If I advertise myself as an admin available for such help (for example here), it will facilitate many many things for other contributors. The Iranian/Persian pages are very uncoordinated at present.-- Zereshk 21:03, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
- 2. Of your articles or contributions to Wikipedia, are there any about which you are particularly pleased, and why?
- A. Iranian architecture, because there was NOTHING about Persian architecture before it. The page took alot of my energy and time to construct.
- B. Howard Baskerville, because info like this is badly needed. (America and Iran have not always been at war with eachother)
- C. I composed 20 or so of the 30 provinces in Iran. Im particularly happy about that, because this was some crucial geographic info that was previously empty and missing.
- D. My crown achievement: List of Iranian scientists. Youll notice that not only did I compose the list, I also composed 75% or more of the individual entries listed as well. This list was advertised on www.payvand.com/news 3 months ago.
- WP is the first place on the web containing such info.-- Zereshk 21:03, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
- 3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?
- A. User:Zora tops the list in this category. We've had lots of heated exchanges. (usually, more of the heat is coming from me I admit, though she does throw in a lot of mischief). But in the end, we get along with eachother, one way or the other. Either I usually lay off, or I convince her somehow to back off. Or we reach some sort of backdoor negotiating compromise (such as in our latest case, where things were solved by email). I stand on my ground vis a vis my attacks on Zora. I dont think calling someone "ignorant" is an insult. But I do like her for her honesty and integrity. And I use her as a standard and yard stick for other social encounters. If I can get along with her, I can get along with most people I come across. So Im actually happy about our exchanges.
- B. There have been others occasionally. For example, there was User:UHCollegian. But in that case, we had a lot of other Texan editors jump in and sort out the conflict.
- I honestly do expect encounters to show up again frequently. After all, the areas Im editing in are perfect breeding grounds for ideological conflict and encounters: Islam-Shia-Sunni-Iran-Ayatollahs-Iran/Iraq war- you name it. Like for example, there is this anon guy ( 70.28.32.90 ) going around changing the nationalities of Iranian scientists into "Afghan" ones. This is problematic. By "Afghan", if they were Dari, then they were full Persians, and he is wrong. If Pashtun, then perhaps he has a point, but then again they were still vassal affiliates of the old Persia, because Afghanistan as a political country only came into being in the past 3-4 centuries. Their culture is identical to that of eastern Iran. (Khorasan comprised of both today's Iran and Afghanistan, and the Persian empire had its capital in modern Afghanistan on many occasions). He is definitely wrong about examples like this. Unless he has explicit documentation, Jorjan ( Gorgan) was never even remotely associated with Afghansitan. So you see, these issues are contentious by nature. But I see where he's coming from. He is trying to portray his nation and creed as proud and respectable. And that is noble, considering what plight his country has gone thru in the recent times. A solution is to help people like him find info on scientists that were actually full Afghans (not related to Persia or Iran), and help him compose a list of Afghan scientists. I did this for Arab scientists when they started clashing with me on the Persian vs Arab identity of many scientists. I gathered a list of pure arab scientist names from NLM's website (Nat'l Lib of Medicine), forwarded it to some WP Arab editors, and it worked. They were happy. And all was satisfied.
- It's hard, but it can be done. -- Zereshk 21:03, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page. No further edits should be made to this page.