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November 25 Information
Identification of a 19th-century chess player in what's now Estonia
I note that the name is actually rendered on page 307 "G. von Hêlmersen", though in the index of names (Personen-Register) at the back of the volume it appears as "Helmersen, G. v.". I don't know the signifance of that diacritic in this contest. That index entry apparently refers to something on page 90, but page 90 is not part of the volume linked from Google Books. However, I found it in
this volume, which it identifies Helmersen as a "Mitschüler" (school classmate) of someone named F. Amelung. I have not attempted to pursue that name.
The next name in that index of names is "Helmersen, Generalin v.", which is interesting because "-in" in German is a feminizing suffix, so this sounds as if it's talking about a female general! Googling for "Generalin von Helmersen", I find two references in German to "Frau Generalin von Helmersen", so I guess this is actually the wife of a General von Helmersen. Searching on "General * von Helmersen", I find that General Gregor von Helmersen was a geologist, so I guess he is indeed
Gregor von Helmersen and the other chess player is his wife. --
142.112.221.156 (
talk)
10:40, 25 November 2023 (UTC)reply
Interesting, thanks. I actually accessed the PDF version of the document so I could search for words in it, and in that version it seems to me like a clear and sharp ê character. --
142.112.220.31 (
talk)
01:33, 27 November 2023 (UTC)reply
The geologist is identified unambiguously
here in issue 3, 1889, of Baltische Schachblätter, in a footnote in which the publisher and author,
F. Amelung, reveals that he personally met Frau Generalin von H., the widow of Gregor von H. The same volume contains several mentions of "G. von Helmersen", including
one in issue 2 that reveals that Amelung played against G. von Helmersen, referring to him as his schoolmate (Mitschüler). There can be little doubt that the chess player and geologist are the same person. --
Lambiam11:08, 25 November 2023 (UTC)reply
The translation as "schoolmates" may be a bit misleading. It seems more likely that this refers to adult students in a chess class under teacher Schneehagen. --
Wrongfilter (
talk)
11:47, 25 November 2023 (UTC)reply
It can theoretically also mean that Amelung and Helmersen attended the same boarding school, although at different times. Amelung attended a boarding school in Fellin (Pensionsanstalt, mentioned
here), but for Helmersen I can only find that he attended several boarding schools in Sankt Petersburg. In the context, the second use of "seinem" in "mit seinem Lehrer Schneehagen, seinem Mitschüler G. von Helmersen und ..." is actually ambiguous; a third possibility is that it refers to Schneehagen. However, in 1856 Amelung was 13 or 14 years old, and it is unlikely that a contemporary schoolmate of his taught a chess class attended by a 52-year old Helmersen. Gustav Schneehagen graduated in 1854 and in 1855–67 was a teacher at a private school in Fellin identified as der Schmidt'schen Anstalt (Schmidt's school).[1] Might it be that the chess player "G. von Helmersen" is the son of geologist Generallieutenant Gregor von Helmersen? This seems now actually the more plausible explanation of the Mittschüler enigma. --
Lambiam12:18, 25 November 2023 (UTC)reply
I think now the "third possibility" is actually the correct one. Schneehagen graduated from the Kaiserliche Universität zu Dorpat (now the
University of Tartu), and Gregor von Helmersen also graduated from this university in 1825, 29 years earlier. So Schneehagen was apparently the school teacher of young Amelung, and Helmersen was an older fellow alumnus of Schneehagen. --
Lambiam12:48, 25 November 2023 (UTC)reply
Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives
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November 25 Information
Identification of a 19th-century chess player in what's now Estonia
I note that the name is actually rendered on page 307 "G. von Hêlmersen", though in the index of names (Personen-Register) at the back of the volume it appears as "Helmersen, G. v.". I don't know the signifance of that diacritic in this contest. That index entry apparently refers to something on page 90, but page 90 is not part of the volume linked from Google Books. However, I found it in
this volume, which it identifies Helmersen as a "Mitschüler" (school classmate) of someone named F. Amelung. I have not attempted to pursue that name.
The next name in that index of names is "Helmersen, Generalin v.", which is interesting because "-in" in German is a feminizing suffix, so this sounds as if it's talking about a female general! Googling for "Generalin von Helmersen", I find two references in German to "Frau Generalin von Helmersen", so I guess this is actually the wife of a General von Helmersen. Searching on "General * von Helmersen", I find that General Gregor von Helmersen was a geologist, so I guess he is indeed
Gregor von Helmersen and the other chess player is his wife. --
142.112.221.156 (
talk)
10:40, 25 November 2023 (UTC)reply
Interesting, thanks. I actually accessed the PDF version of the document so I could search for words in it, and in that version it seems to me like a clear and sharp ê character. --
142.112.220.31 (
talk)
01:33, 27 November 2023 (UTC)reply
The geologist is identified unambiguously
here in issue 3, 1889, of Baltische Schachblätter, in a footnote in which the publisher and author,
F. Amelung, reveals that he personally met Frau Generalin von H., the widow of Gregor von H. The same volume contains several mentions of "G. von Helmersen", including
one in issue 2 that reveals that Amelung played against G. von Helmersen, referring to him as his schoolmate (Mitschüler). There can be little doubt that the chess player and geologist are the same person. --
Lambiam11:08, 25 November 2023 (UTC)reply
The translation as "schoolmates" may be a bit misleading. It seems more likely that this refers to adult students in a chess class under teacher Schneehagen. --
Wrongfilter (
talk)
11:47, 25 November 2023 (UTC)reply
It can theoretically also mean that Amelung and Helmersen attended the same boarding school, although at different times. Amelung attended a boarding school in Fellin (Pensionsanstalt, mentioned
here), but for Helmersen I can only find that he attended several boarding schools in Sankt Petersburg. In the context, the second use of "seinem" in "mit seinem Lehrer Schneehagen, seinem Mitschüler G. von Helmersen und ..." is actually ambiguous; a third possibility is that it refers to Schneehagen. However, in 1856 Amelung was 13 or 14 years old, and it is unlikely that a contemporary schoolmate of his taught a chess class attended by a 52-year old Helmersen. Gustav Schneehagen graduated in 1854 and in 1855–67 was a teacher at a private school in Fellin identified as der Schmidt'schen Anstalt (Schmidt's school).[1] Might it be that the chess player "G. von Helmersen" is the son of geologist Generallieutenant Gregor von Helmersen? This seems now actually the more plausible explanation of the Mittschüler enigma. --
Lambiam12:18, 25 November 2023 (UTC)reply
I think now the "third possibility" is actually the correct one. Schneehagen graduated from the Kaiserliche Universität zu Dorpat (now the
University of Tartu), and Gregor von Helmersen also graduated from this university in 1825, 29 years earlier. So Schneehagen was apparently the school teacher of young Amelung, and Helmersen was an older fellow alumnus of Schneehagen. --
Lambiam12:48, 25 November 2023 (UTC)reply