| Language desk | ||
|---|---|---|
| < February 2 | << Jan | February | Mar >> | February 4 > |
| Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives |
|---|
| The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
So the article
Ollagüe contains the following text in a footnote: The ll in classical Spanish corresponds to the sound
[ʎ] which matches the Aymara pronunciation (though today most Spanish speakers pronounce it
[ʝ] or
[ʒ]).
[1] The g in the name was inserted because using an
intervocalic
[w] consonant is foreign to classical Spanish
[2] and the closest approximation is
[ɣw] (gü). The rendering of the vowels as o and e rather than u and i derives from the fact that Andean languages (including Aymara) generally do not distinguish between the vowel sounds
[o] and
[u], as well as
[e] and
[i], so the precise sounds can vary by speaker.
[3]
[4]
Is there any person familiar with Spanish who can comment on the accuracy of this paragraph? I am wondering because it seems to me like most of the claims aren't actually supported by the source.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk,
contributions)
20:34, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
- @ Jo-Jo Eumerus: Most of the quote seems accurate to me. It may not be in a full agreement with the sources - I'll let others check that. Mr KEBAB ( talk) 20:47, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
- What's "classical Spanish"? – There are plenty of New World words with intervocalic /w/, written hu, as in ayahuasca. — Tamfang ( talk) 02:32, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
- Classical Spanish is another name for Early Modern Spanish, 15th–17th century. —Stephen ( talk) 14:55, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
- The note is accurate. I am fluent in Spanish and have studied Quechua, normally considered a congener of Aymara, and typologically similar in the relevant phonetic comments here. (See Anatole Lyovins' An Introduction to the Languages of the World for a sketch of Quechua.) The note itself seems like uberkill for an article about a volcano. But I'm an inclusionist. μηδείς ( talk) 00:30, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
- Ya, I was thinking this as well which is why I moved it to a note. My concern was more that the sources don't appear to support the content and thus leave the note unsourced.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk,
contributions)
09:01, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
- @
Medeis: Do you know of additional sources that might support the note?
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk,
contributions)
13:14, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
- Well, the description of Spanish is accurate and easily verifiable. I have read about Aymara in the context of Quechua and Quechaymaran which is treated variously as a family, a dialect continuum, or as a contact situation. The Aymaran language is both poorly studied and has fewer than 800 speakers. Unfortunately I do not have any sources on Aymara easily accessible. You should definitely read the Spanish article https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idioma_aimara on Aymara, which accords exactly with what is noted above. μηδείς ( talk) 03:52, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
- @
Medeis: Do you know of additional sources that might support the note?
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk,
contributions)
13:14, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
- Ya, I was thinking this as well which is why I moved it to a note. My concern was more that the sources don't appear to support the content and thus leave the note unsourced.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk,
contributions)
09:01, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
References
- ^ Coloma, German (2011). "Valoración socioeconómica de los rasgos fonéticos dialectales de la lengua española". Lexis. 35 (1): 103.
- ^ Torck, Danièle; Wetzels, W. Leo, eds. (2006). Romance Languages and Linguistic Theory 2006. John Benjamins. p. 113. ISBN 9789027248190.
- ^ Coler, Matt (2014). A Grammar of Muylaq' Aymara: Aymara as spoken in Southern Peru. p. 43. ISBN 9789004284005.
- ^ Cobo, Father Bernabe (1979). History of the Inca Empire: An Account of the Indians' Customs and Their Origin, Together with a Treatise on Inca Legends, History, and Social Institutions. University of Texas Press. p. 21. ISBN 9780292789807.
| Language desk | ||
|---|---|---|
| < February 2 | << Jan | February | Mar >> | February 4 > |
| Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives |
|---|
| The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
So the article
Ollagüe contains the following text in a footnote: The ll in classical Spanish corresponds to the sound
[ʎ] which matches the Aymara pronunciation (though today most Spanish speakers pronounce it
[ʝ] or
[ʒ]).
[1] The g in the name was inserted because using an
intervocalic
[w] consonant is foreign to classical Spanish
[2] and the closest approximation is
[ɣw] (gü). The rendering of the vowels as o and e rather than u and i derives from the fact that Andean languages (including Aymara) generally do not distinguish between the vowel sounds
[o] and
[u], as well as
[e] and
[i], so the precise sounds can vary by speaker.
[3]
[4]
Is there any person familiar with Spanish who can comment on the accuracy of this paragraph? I am wondering because it seems to me like most of the claims aren't actually supported by the source.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk,
contributions)
20:34, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
- @ Jo-Jo Eumerus: Most of the quote seems accurate to me. It may not be in a full agreement with the sources - I'll let others check that. Mr KEBAB ( talk) 20:47, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
- What's "classical Spanish"? – There are plenty of New World words with intervocalic /w/, written hu, as in ayahuasca. — Tamfang ( talk) 02:32, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
- Classical Spanish is another name for Early Modern Spanish, 15th–17th century. —Stephen ( talk) 14:55, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
- The note is accurate. I am fluent in Spanish and have studied Quechua, normally considered a congener of Aymara, and typologically similar in the relevant phonetic comments here. (See Anatole Lyovins' An Introduction to the Languages of the World for a sketch of Quechua.) The note itself seems like uberkill for an article about a volcano. But I'm an inclusionist. μηδείς ( talk) 00:30, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
- Ya, I was thinking this as well which is why I moved it to a note. My concern was more that the sources don't appear to support the content and thus leave the note unsourced.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk,
contributions)
09:01, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
- @
Medeis: Do you know of additional sources that might support the note?
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk,
contributions)
13:14, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
- Well, the description of Spanish is accurate and easily verifiable. I have read about Aymara in the context of Quechua and Quechaymaran which is treated variously as a family, a dialect continuum, or as a contact situation. The Aymaran language is both poorly studied and has fewer than 800 speakers. Unfortunately I do not have any sources on Aymara easily accessible. You should definitely read the Spanish article https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idioma_aimara on Aymara, which accords exactly with what is noted above. μηδείς ( talk) 03:52, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
- @
Medeis: Do you know of additional sources that might support the note?
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk,
contributions)
13:14, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
- Ya, I was thinking this as well which is why I moved it to a note. My concern was more that the sources don't appear to support the content and thus leave the note unsourced.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk,
contributions)
09:01, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
References
- ^ Coloma, German (2011). "Valoración socioeconómica de los rasgos fonéticos dialectales de la lengua española". Lexis. 35 (1): 103.
- ^ Torck, Danièle; Wetzels, W. Leo, eds. (2006). Romance Languages and Linguistic Theory 2006. John Benjamins. p. 113. ISBN 9789027248190.
- ^ Coler, Matt (2014). A Grammar of Muylaq' Aymara: Aymara as spoken in Southern Peru. p. 43. ISBN 9789004284005.
- ^ Cobo, Father Bernabe (1979). History of the Inca Empire: An Account of the Indians' Customs and Their Origin, Together with a Treatise on Inca Legends, History, and Social Institutions. University of Texas Press. p. 21. ISBN 9780292789807.