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Oh, look, another Blake question...
In The Book of Thel, Blake has the following line:
The daughters of Mne Seraphim led round their sunny flocks,
I can't quite figure out what "Mne" is doing there. Modern reprints of the poem commonly change "Mne" to "the," and on the surface that does make the line perfectly intelligible, but Blake's own printings clearly use "Mne". There's no full stop that would indicate it, but the odd juxtaposition of consonants leads me to believe it may have been meant as an abbreviation
I have found one reference to this weird word in an external source: S. Foster Damon posits in A Blake Dictionary that "Mne" is Blake's mistake for the Hebrew בני, meaning "sons," so presumably Blake is talking about "The daughters of the sons of the Seraphim." At least under Damon's hypothesis, Blake was presumably going for "Bne."
I take issue with that argument, though, for two reasons: First, because Blake actually knew Hebrew. My Hebrew is quite poor, but I feel confident saying that no one is going to mistake ב for מ, especially in a word as common as ben. For someone proficient in Hebrew, that's a pretty egregious mistake, and a hell of a big flub for Blake never to correct it in subsequent engravings. Second, while I've admittedly not studied many 18th-century English texts that feature Hebrew vocabulary, I've read quite a few such texts from more recent centuries, and I've never seen בני transliterated as "Bne." I'm not altogether certain I've ever seen בני rendered as anything other than "bene."
Add to that the fact that "The daughters of the sons of the Seraphim" is a really awkward construction for Blake, and I really doubt Damon's hypothesis is correct. Does anyone have any guess as to what "Mne" may mean in this context? I'm particularly interested in any leads as to what "Mne" could conceivably have been an abbreviation for during the 1790s. Thanks. Evan ( talk| contribs) 01:37, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
"Mne" doesn't seem to be Hebrew (definitely not Biblical Hebrew, unless a verb form in II Samuel 24:1 which doesn't make sense in context), but it could recall the famous Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin phrase... AnonMoos ( talk) 08:27, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
What is the meaning of the Internet slang word "troll"? For example, "People don't want to support the cranky commenter, the critic or the troll. Nor do they want to be that negative personality online." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.249.212.54 ( talk) 09:44, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
Two translations are given to the name at Tizi n'Tichka.
The Arabic wp goes with no. 1, French wp too. The german, obviously, attempt "dangerous mountain pastures". Which one is correct? trespassers william ( talk) 23:37, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
Language desk | ||
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< May 20 | << Apr | May | Jun >> | May 22 > |
Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives |
---|
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
Oh, look, another Blake question...
In The Book of Thel, Blake has the following line:
The daughters of Mne Seraphim led round their sunny flocks,
I can't quite figure out what "Mne" is doing there. Modern reprints of the poem commonly change "Mne" to "the," and on the surface that does make the line perfectly intelligible, but Blake's own printings clearly use "Mne". There's no full stop that would indicate it, but the odd juxtaposition of consonants leads me to believe it may have been meant as an abbreviation
I have found one reference to this weird word in an external source: S. Foster Damon posits in A Blake Dictionary that "Mne" is Blake's mistake for the Hebrew בני, meaning "sons," so presumably Blake is talking about "The daughters of the sons of the Seraphim." At least under Damon's hypothesis, Blake was presumably going for "Bne."
I take issue with that argument, though, for two reasons: First, because Blake actually knew Hebrew. My Hebrew is quite poor, but I feel confident saying that no one is going to mistake ב for מ, especially in a word as common as ben. For someone proficient in Hebrew, that's a pretty egregious mistake, and a hell of a big flub for Blake never to correct it in subsequent engravings. Second, while I've admittedly not studied many 18th-century English texts that feature Hebrew vocabulary, I've read quite a few such texts from more recent centuries, and I've never seen בני transliterated as "Bne." I'm not altogether certain I've ever seen בני rendered as anything other than "bene."
Add to that the fact that "The daughters of the sons of the Seraphim" is a really awkward construction for Blake, and I really doubt Damon's hypothesis is correct. Does anyone have any guess as to what "Mne" may mean in this context? I'm particularly interested in any leads as to what "Mne" could conceivably have been an abbreviation for during the 1790s. Thanks. Evan ( talk| contribs) 01:37, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
"Mne" doesn't seem to be Hebrew (definitely not Biblical Hebrew, unless a verb form in II Samuel 24:1 which doesn't make sense in context), but it could recall the famous Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin phrase... AnonMoos ( talk) 08:27, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
What is the meaning of the Internet slang word "troll"? For example, "People don't want to support the cranky commenter, the critic or the troll. Nor do they want to be that negative personality online." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.249.212.54 ( talk) 09:44, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
Two translations are given to the name at Tizi n'Tichka.
The Arabic wp goes with no. 1, French wp too. The german, obviously, attempt "dangerous mountain pastures". Which one is correct? trespassers william ( talk) 23:37, 21 May 2014 (UTC)