| Humanities desk | ||
|---|---|---|
| < July 25 | << Jun | July | Aug >> | Current desk > |
| Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives |
|---|
| The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
July 26 Information
coats of arms of Hunzaker and Finers, using tenné
Gerard Legh's Accedens of Armory (1562), concerning tenné, states "There is of the name of Hunzaker, and one other called Finers, I dare saye, they are right Englishmen, & have borne that colour of long tyme". What were the arms of Hunzaker and/or Finers that used tenné—can anyone find the blazon and/or an image of either? Our article Tenné asserts the colour was never used in British heraldry; is Legh wrong about Hunzaker and Finers? (It'd still be nice to find their 1500s arms to see if he was e.g. misidentifying another colour.) -sche ( talk) 00:56, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- Re
Accedens of Armory p. 11 (with added url):
A Display of Heraldrie by John Guillim (1611) mentions tenné several times (plus some false hits), but this is 50 years after Legh. The arms of
Hunzaker and
Finer on this non-RS site don't seems to have any tenné on them, but that probably doesn't mean much.
Period Armorials has a big list of armorials such as
Links to Online Rolls of Arms, but many links are dead or otherwise don't work. Brian Timms' work is on Wayback
here.
Dictionary of British Arms. Medieval Ordinary” (4 vols) seems good, but I can't get the link to work. Best of luck in your search.
MinorProphet (
talk) 14:41, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
-
That "ordinary" (manual?) is here. (Seems to be four volumes compiled back-to-back.) In which the word is written "tenny", I think. I also found a discussion of the quote:
There was certainly an old family named Handesacre, and Fiennes is a well-known ancient house, but we cannot find proof that any of either name had "borne that colour of long time." Oh, and
The cause of Legh's wilful aberration in this matter [was] his Pythagoracisms. He had determined to bend everything in heraldry to the number nine:
and quoting Legh,it is aptest for this science ... of all simple numbers it is most of content. The figure whereof holdeth all other under it, as by the art of Arithmetique ye maye soonest perceave, where ye shall finde that all articles and compoundes, bee they never so huge, are made of nine figures. The golden number ..."
and he goes on to mention the holy trinity, the nine muses, and Kabbalism. Motivated by this homespun mysticism, it would appear he was lying. Card Zero (talk) 16:43, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
-
That "ordinary" (manual?) is here. (Seems to be four volumes compiled back-to-back.) In which the word is written "tenny", I think. I also found a discussion of the quote:
There was certainly an old family named Handesacre, and Fiennes is a well-known ancient house, but we cannot find proof that any of either name had "borne that colour of long time." Oh, and
- You just beat me to that wild undelete... Following up that
...but we cannot find proof that any of either name had "borne that colour of long time."
from the coruscating hatchet job you quote from the Herald & Genealogist: Handsacre arms are mentioned in that Dictionary of British Arms, Medieval Ordinary at Handsacre et al. vol 2. p. 259 [pdf p. 954], as "Ermine, 3 chessrooks untinc", citing The Archaeological Journal, Volume 78, Notes on the Incised Effigies of Derbyshire and Staffordshire, fig 4 p. 9 (lower left shield) and p. 24 where it is given as "Ermine, three chess-rooks gules". Fiennes, vol. 1, p. 277 [pdf 346] is given as "Gules, 3 lions or". List of Sources is at eg Vol 1, p. 27. - As you say, "Tenny" appears only very rarely in the Dictionary, e.g. arms of Osanne, Vol 2. p. 341, citing Fenwick's Roll Pt. II of 1471, which is apparently only in MS, held at the BL according to this document p. 98 and in trick at the College of Arms, L. 14 So, Legh does seem to be thoroughly discredited, and our Tenné article could be updated. MinorProphet ( talk) 21:21, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- You just beat me to that wild undelete... Following up that
the web site Ludii Portal has a page about ancient board game Ludus Coriovalli but I can't find any information elsewhere, from the characteristics it seems to me that it could be a variant of Bear games,can you help me? 89.97.104.35 ( talk) 14:39, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- According to
This, the "game" is extrapolated from a single artifact dated to Roman times, which was presumed to be some kind of board game. I don't believe anyone has called it "Ludus Coriovalli" except for that Website. The website appears to be some sort of comprehensive game compendium, and it looks like they are extrapolating what the game would likely have been. --
Jayron
32 17:50, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- See
Heerlen#History:
They founded a military settlement, named Coriovallum
and wikt:ludus#Latin, though that does not mean the name wasn't invented by the website. Can't find anything archeology in English. fiveby( zero) 18:03, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- See
Heerlen#History:
Is there a list about the countries whose constitutions contain a reference to Human Dignity? 2A02:8071:60A0:92E0:43F:8184:306D:A98B ( talk) 18:49, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
-
Human Dignity in National Constitutions: Functions, Promises and Dangers. The American Journal of Comparative Law, 2014.
70.67.193.176 (
talk) 21:55, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you very much 2A02:8071:60A0:92E0:43F:8184:306D:A98B ( talk) 22:48, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
What are some of the main challenges older adults face in seeking justice and recourse when they become victims of financial fraud and abuse? Specifically, how do the legal complexities surrounding financial exploitation cases impact their ability to access justice effectively? Grotesquetruth ( talk) 23:13, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- Best guess: age is not the main factor determining outcomes in your example.
DOR (ex-HK) (
talk) 03:02, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- ?
Grotesquetruth (
talk) 09:42, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Not sure why you left a question mark, which implies that you don't understand the previous response. It seems perfectly clear to me – DOR is saying that the challenges faced by older adults are the same as those faced by any other adults. In other words, age is not relevant to this discussion. -- Viennese Waltz 09:54, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- ?
Grotesquetruth (
talk) 09:42, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- In general, people whose mental facilities are impaired have both a greater risk of falling victim to a scam and more difficulty finding and using ways to overcome this. While mental impairment is found in all adult age segments, it is relatively more common among the elderly. -- Lambiam 10:04, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- See also Aging brain and Fatigue in older adults. 70.67.193.176 ( talk) 14:56, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- While the elderly may fall victim to scams and abuse more easily than the young, the recourse once that abuse occurs (the actions they should take & their “access” to justice) is the same. They should contact a lawyer and the relevant policing agencies. Blueboar ( talk) 15:11, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- In 2015, Journal of Crime and Justice devoted an issue to topic of how elders interact with the justice system. Link is to the introductory editorial, which itself offers a couple of references for your specific topic. Click through to issue table of contents for more. 70.67.193.176 ( talk) 18:59, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- See legal_guardian#Abuses for some examples where legal procedures intended to protect older adults have been abused to take over their affairs without much if any recourse. -- Amble ( talk) 00:06, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- As an elderly person, I have two big issues when dealing with any type of organization, including financial institutions. First, I don't want to use a computer. I don't want to install an app. I don't want to peck at numbers on a phone to get to a human. I just want to call a human and get help. I don't want technology to act as a barricade to assistance. Second, I am old. I have terrible hearing. If I am talking to someone in the United States, I understand them. If I am talking to someone from India. I don't understand them at all. I turn my hearing aids up to max volume and I still can't understand them. If I complain about it, the response is that I am being racist. (A guy I was trying to understand a few weeks ago was able to drop his accent to tell me "I f*** your mother" when I told him I couldn't understand him and wanted to talk to someone else.) So, it is a pointless task to try and get help when someone from India picks up on the other end. I have no clue what "Ket me hip tok em big too kig tetoo" means. I can't make out anything sensible from it. I have ask them to repeat it over and over and over. Spell it out, letter by letter. It takes forever and in the end I am just transferred to someone with a thicker accent. So, if I was ripped off and I had to call the credit card company or my bank for help, I seriously doubt that I would ever receive assistance. 97.82.165.112 ( talk) 15:03, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
| Humanities desk | ||
|---|---|---|
| < July 25 | << Jun | July | Aug >> | Current desk > |
| Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives |
|---|
| The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
July 26 Information
coats of arms of Hunzaker and Finers, using tenné
Gerard Legh's Accedens of Armory (1562), concerning tenné, states "There is of the name of Hunzaker, and one other called Finers, I dare saye, they are right Englishmen, & have borne that colour of long tyme". What were the arms of Hunzaker and/or Finers that used tenné—can anyone find the blazon and/or an image of either? Our article Tenné asserts the colour was never used in British heraldry; is Legh wrong about Hunzaker and Finers? (It'd still be nice to find their 1500s arms to see if he was e.g. misidentifying another colour.) -sche ( talk) 00:56, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- Re
Accedens of Armory p. 11 (with added url):
A Display of Heraldrie by John Guillim (1611) mentions tenné several times (plus some false hits), but this is 50 years after Legh. The arms of
Hunzaker and
Finer on this non-RS site don't seems to have any tenné on them, but that probably doesn't mean much.
Period Armorials has a big list of armorials such as
Links to Online Rolls of Arms, but many links are dead or otherwise don't work. Brian Timms' work is on Wayback
here.
Dictionary of British Arms. Medieval Ordinary” (4 vols) seems good, but I can't get the link to work. Best of luck in your search.
MinorProphet (
talk) 14:41, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
-
That "ordinary" (manual?) is here. (Seems to be four volumes compiled back-to-back.) In which the word is written "tenny", I think. I also found a discussion of the quote:
There was certainly an old family named Handesacre, and Fiennes is a well-known ancient house, but we cannot find proof that any of either name had "borne that colour of long time." Oh, and
The cause of Legh's wilful aberration in this matter [was] his Pythagoracisms. He had determined to bend everything in heraldry to the number nine:
and quoting Legh,it is aptest for this science ... of all simple numbers it is most of content. The figure whereof holdeth all other under it, as by the art of Arithmetique ye maye soonest perceave, where ye shall finde that all articles and compoundes, bee they never so huge, are made of nine figures. The golden number ..."
and he goes on to mention the holy trinity, the nine muses, and Kabbalism. Motivated by this homespun mysticism, it would appear he was lying. Card Zero (talk) 16:43, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
-
That "ordinary" (manual?) is here. (Seems to be four volumes compiled back-to-back.) In which the word is written "tenny", I think. I also found a discussion of the quote:
There was certainly an old family named Handesacre, and Fiennes is a well-known ancient house, but we cannot find proof that any of either name had "borne that colour of long time." Oh, and
- You just beat me to that wild undelete... Following up that
...but we cannot find proof that any of either name had "borne that colour of long time."
from the coruscating hatchet job you quote from the Herald & Genealogist: Handsacre arms are mentioned in that Dictionary of British Arms, Medieval Ordinary at Handsacre et al. vol 2. p. 259 [pdf p. 954], as "Ermine, 3 chessrooks untinc", citing The Archaeological Journal, Volume 78, Notes on the Incised Effigies of Derbyshire and Staffordshire, fig 4 p. 9 (lower left shield) and p. 24 where it is given as "Ermine, three chess-rooks gules". Fiennes, vol. 1, p. 277 [pdf 346] is given as "Gules, 3 lions or". List of Sources is at eg Vol 1, p. 27. - As you say, "Tenny" appears only very rarely in the Dictionary, e.g. arms of Osanne, Vol 2. p. 341, citing Fenwick's Roll Pt. II of 1471, which is apparently only in MS, held at the BL according to this document p. 98 and in trick at the College of Arms, L. 14 So, Legh does seem to be thoroughly discredited, and our Tenné article could be updated. MinorProphet ( talk) 21:21, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- You just beat me to that wild undelete... Following up that
the web site Ludii Portal has a page about ancient board game Ludus Coriovalli but I can't find any information elsewhere, from the characteristics it seems to me that it could be a variant of Bear games,can you help me? 89.97.104.35 ( talk) 14:39, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- According to
This, the "game" is extrapolated from a single artifact dated to Roman times, which was presumed to be some kind of board game. I don't believe anyone has called it "Ludus Coriovalli" except for that Website. The website appears to be some sort of comprehensive game compendium, and it looks like they are extrapolating what the game would likely have been. --
Jayron
32 17:50, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- See
Heerlen#History:
They founded a military settlement, named Coriovallum
and wikt:ludus#Latin, though that does not mean the name wasn't invented by the website. Can't find anything archeology in English. fiveby( zero) 18:03, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- See
Heerlen#History:
Is there a list about the countries whose constitutions contain a reference to Human Dignity? 2A02:8071:60A0:92E0:43F:8184:306D:A98B ( talk) 18:49, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
-
Human Dignity in National Constitutions: Functions, Promises and Dangers. The American Journal of Comparative Law, 2014.
70.67.193.176 (
talk) 21:55, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you very much 2A02:8071:60A0:92E0:43F:8184:306D:A98B ( talk) 22:48, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
What are some of the main challenges older adults face in seeking justice and recourse when they become victims of financial fraud and abuse? Specifically, how do the legal complexities surrounding financial exploitation cases impact their ability to access justice effectively? Grotesquetruth ( talk) 23:13, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- Best guess: age is not the main factor determining outcomes in your example.
DOR (ex-HK) (
talk) 03:02, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- ?
Grotesquetruth (
talk) 09:42, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Not sure why you left a question mark, which implies that you don't understand the previous response. It seems perfectly clear to me – DOR is saying that the challenges faced by older adults are the same as those faced by any other adults. In other words, age is not relevant to this discussion. -- Viennese Waltz 09:54, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- ?
Grotesquetruth (
talk) 09:42, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- In general, people whose mental facilities are impaired have both a greater risk of falling victim to a scam and more difficulty finding and using ways to overcome this. While mental impairment is found in all adult age segments, it is relatively more common among the elderly. -- Lambiam 10:04, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- See also Aging brain and Fatigue in older adults. 70.67.193.176 ( talk) 14:56, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- While the elderly may fall victim to scams and abuse more easily than the young, the recourse once that abuse occurs (the actions they should take & their “access” to justice) is the same. They should contact a lawyer and the relevant policing agencies. Blueboar ( talk) 15:11, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- In 2015, Journal of Crime and Justice devoted an issue to topic of how elders interact with the justice system. Link is to the introductory editorial, which itself offers a couple of references for your specific topic. Click through to issue table of contents for more. 70.67.193.176 ( talk) 18:59, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- See legal_guardian#Abuses for some examples where legal procedures intended to protect older adults have been abused to take over their affairs without much if any recourse. -- Amble ( talk) 00:06, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- As an elderly person, I have two big issues when dealing with any type of organization, including financial institutions. First, I don't want to use a computer. I don't want to install an app. I don't want to peck at numbers on a phone to get to a human. I just want to call a human and get help. I don't want technology to act as a barricade to assistance. Second, I am old. I have terrible hearing. If I am talking to someone in the United States, I understand them. If I am talking to someone from India. I don't understand them at all. I turn my hearing aids up to max volume and I still can't understand them. If I complain about it, the response is that I am being racist. (A guy I was trying to understand a few weeks ago was able to drop his accent to tell me "I f*** your mother" when I told him I couldn't understand him and wanted to talk to someone else.) So, it is a pointless task to try and get help when someone from India picks up on the other end. I have no clue what "Ket me hip tok em big too kig tetoo" means. I can't make out anything sensible from it. I have ask them to repeat it over and over and over. Spell it out, letter by letter. It takes forever and in the end I am just transferred to someone with a thicker accent. So, if I was ripped off and I had to call the credit card company or my bank for help, I seriously doubt that I would ever receive assistance. 97.82.165.112 ( talk) 15:03, 28 July 2023 (UTC)