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Depends what you mean by short style I guess. I would say the person in
Silk painting depicting a man riding a dragon has fairly short. Of course since the person was riding a dragon, whether it was supposed to have been cut that way, or was magically like that in some other way or the person making it just didn't think about how the hair got short I can't say.
Nil Einne (
talk)
13:43, 14 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Looking a bit more, for older but not outside Europe, I would say some of the
La Marche (cave) cave paintings (actually etchings I think) seem to depict people with short hair
[5] although it's somewhat difficult to tell and as per our article, there is some dispute over whether the paintings are authentic. There are some others shown in that paper mostly from
Roc-aux-Sorciers which also possible show short hair although they are IMO even harder to make out and I don't know if there is any dispute over their authenticity. See also
[6] and
[7] especially if you can't get access to the full text of the first link. We should probably also consider that many of these drawings are attempts to interpret/make out what can be seen after erosion etc by people in modern times. The one photo there sort of shows what is actually visible and
[8] gives more of what can actually be seen. These is some more here
[9]. (I'm including that mostly for the images of the etchings. If you read the text, this response may be of interest
[10]/
[11].) I should maybe also mention that AFAICT, one of the reasons what was found at La Marche is so controversial seems to be because the style and depictions are fairly different from a lot of other art of the era that we're aware of and some of it seems to show stuff unexpected for the era. Hence why you get stuff like
[12] and
[13]. I won't link to it out of copyvio concerns but you may be able to find the full text of the first link on ResearchGate.
Nil Einne (
talk)
16:51, 14 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Looking for discussions about hair in the
Magdalenian and
paleolithic period, I found these
[14],
[15]/
[16],
[17],
[18] which may be of interest. (For the "Bad Hair Days" ref, note although it's mostly discussing modern depictions and their meaning, it does discuss the evidence.) This albeit discussing depictions of animals
[19]/
[20] mentions how care needs to be taken in interpreting what is shown.
Nil Einne (
talk)
17:23, 14 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Sure looks like Blücher. Have you tried sending the National Trust Collections an email asking for the correct details? They probably have more information at hand to fix that mistakes. Regards
SoWhy16:00, 14 April 2020 (UTC)reply
According to Timothy Clifford (1992), "The Plaster Shops of the Rococo and Neo-Classical Era in Britain", Journal of the History of Collections4:1, p. 56, Hardenberg's Blücher bust, made in 1817 for
Carlton House and signed by his partner Federico Nicoli, is now at
Windsor. --
Lambiam17:20, 14 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The viewing angle is less than optimal, but the bust is not that dissimilar to some other images of DLG (e.g.
here), so I am not so sure it definitely does not show DLG, which then would mean it cannot be by the hand of Hardenberg. According to
these search results from the National Trust Collections website, Sheringham Park harbours a whole collection of Hardenbergs, but the years shown on that page establish that something is definitely wrong. Their homepage states, wisely, "Our records are constantly being enhanced and improved, but please note that we cannot guarantee the accuracy of any information shown on this website." You can send comments or enquiries about the collections to enquiries@nationaltrust.org.uk. --
Lambiam17:45, 14 April 2020 (UTC)reply
I had, before asking here, raised the question with the NT and they are already looking into it. I've seen hundreds of images of Lloyd George - photos, cartoons, portraits, film, etc, and the bust is definitely not him. Quite apart from the hairline, the cheeks are wrong, the jawline's wrong, the brow's wrong. It just doesn't look like him.
DuncanHill (
talk)
18:14, 14 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a
transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the
current reference desk pages.
Depends what you mean by short style I guess. I would say the person in
Silk painting depicting a man riding a dragon has fairly short. Of course since the person was riding a dragon, whether it was supposed to have been cut that way, or was magically like that in some other way or the person making it just didn't think about how the hair got short I can't say.
Nil Einne (
talk)
13:43, 14 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Looking a bit more, for older but not outside Europe, I would say some of the
La Marche (cave) cave paintings (actually etchings I think) seem to depict people with short hair
[5] although it's somewhat difficult to tell and as per our article, there is some dispute over whether the paintings are authentic. There are some others shown in that paper mostly from
Roc-aux-Sorciers which also possible show short hair although they are IMO even harder to make out and I don't know if there is any dispute over their authenticity. See also
[6] and
[7] especially if you can't get access to the full text of the first link. We should probably also consider that many of these drawings are attempts to interpret/make out what can be seen after erosion etc by people in modern times. The one photo there sort of shows what is actually visible and
[8] gives more of what can actually be seen. These is some more here
[9]. (I'm including that mostly for the images of the etchings. If you read the text, this response may be of interest
[10]/
[11].) I should maybe also mention that AFAICT, one of the reasons what was found at La Marche is so controversial seems to be because the style and depictions are fairly different from a lot of other art of the era that we're aware of and some of it seems to show stuff unexpected for the era. Hence why you get stuff like
[12] and
[13]. I won't link to it out of copyvio concerns but you may be able to find the full text of the first link on ResearchGate.
Nil Einne (
talk)
16:51, 14 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Looking for discussions about hair in the
Magdalenian and
paleolithic period, I found these
[14],
[15]/
[16],
[17],
[18] which may be of interest. (For the "Bad Hair Days" ref, note although it's mostly discussing modern depictions and their meaning, it does discuss the evidence.) This albeit discussing depictions of animals
[19]/
[20] mentions how care needs to be taken in interpreting what is shown.
Nil Einne (
talk)
17:23, 14 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Sure looks like Blücher. Have you tried sending the National Trust Collections an email asking for the correct details? They probably have more information at hand to fix that mistakes. Regards
SoWhy16:00, 14 April 2020 (UTC)reply
According to Timothy Clifford (1992), "The Plaster Shops of the Rococo and Neo-Classical Era in Britain", Journal of the History of Collections4:1, p. 56, Hardenberg's Blücher bust, made in 1817 for
Carlton House and signed by his partner Federico Nicoli, is now at
Windsor. --
Lambiam17:20, 14 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The viewing angle is less than optimal, but the bust is not that dissimilar to some other images of DLG (e.g.
here), so I am not so sure it definitely does not show DLG, which then would mean it cannot be by the hand of Hardenberg. According to
these search results from the National Trust Collections website, Sheringham Park harbours a whole collection of Hardenbergs, but the years shown on that page establish that something is definitely wrong. Their homepage states, wisely, "Our records are constantly being enhanced and improved, but please note that we cannot guarantee the accuracy of any information shown on this website." You can send comments or enquiries about the collections to enquiries@nationaltrust.org.uk. --
Lambiam17:45, 14 April 2020 (UTC)reply
I had, before asking here, raised the question with the NT and they are already looking into it. I've seen hundreds of images of Lloyd George - photos, cartoons, portraits, film, etc, and the bust is definitely not him. Quite apart from the hairline, the cheeks are wrong, the jawline's wrong, the brow's wrong. It just doesn't look like him.
DuncanHill (
talk)
18:14, 14 April 2020 (UTC)reply