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April 11 Information
When would Prince
David Kawānanakoa and Prince
Jonah Kūhiō Kalanianaʻole have visited Niagara Falls? From this source: Warinner, Emily V.; McFarland, Margaret Bukeley (1975).
A Royal Journey to London (PDF). Honolulu: Topgallant Publishing Company. p. 22.
ISBN
978-0-914916-11-6.
OCLC
4573808.{{
cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
KAVEBEAR (
talk) 02:47, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- Piecing the info together gleaned from newspaper-article snippets in the article
"Prince and Princess de Bourbon" on the website Images of Old Hawaiʻi, we see that:
- Prince Henry de Bourbon and his spouse Princess Maria Luisa visited the Kingdom in October 1889.
- They departed on October 29 on the SS Australia headed for San Francisco.
- Both Princes were also passengers.
- On November 2 the Bourbons were in San Francisco, planning to stay there four or five days and then proceed by train to New York via Niagara Falls.
- It is a reasonable assumption that the Hawaiʻian Princes accompanied the Bourbons also during this USA part of the trip, so if everything went according to plan they would have arrived in Niagara Falls around November 9, 1889. --
Lambiam 04:11, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- I don't have a train schedule from 1889, but it would be slower than trains in this day of diesel locomotives, and a trip of that distance would take 3 days today even if it wasn't necessary to stop off overnight between trains. (I can't readily check Amtrak schedules currently because their services are disrupted by the pandemic, but I have some experience in long-distance train travel.) Bottom line, I doubt they would have arrived before November 10 or 11. --
76.71.6.31 (
talk) 19:02, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- The Australia arrived in SF on November 1st. November 1 + 5 days of sojourn + 3 days of travel = November 9. --
Lambiam 19:26, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- "They will remain... four or five days". So November 2 + 4 days + 4 days of travel = November 10. -- 76.71.6.31 ( talk) 19:42, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- The Australia arrived in SF on November 1st. November 1 + 5 days of sojourn + 3 days of travel = November 9. --
Lambiam 19:26, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- I don't have a train schedule from 1889, but it would be slower than trains in this day of diesel locomotives, and a trip of that distance would take 3 days today even if it wasn't necessary to stop off overnight between trains. (I can't readily check Amtrak schedules currently because their services are disrupted by the pandemic, but I have some experience in long-distance train travel.) Bottom line, I doubt they would have arrived before November 10 or 11. --
76.71.6.31 (
talk) 19:02, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- When did they get off on their next stop after Niagara? New York?
KAVEBEAR (
talk) 00:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
- I haven't been able to find anything about that. -- Lambiam 09:40, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
ResolvedWho is this photographer? KAVEBEAR ( talk) 03:08, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- It is Michele Schemboche, who was active in Turin, Florence and Rome. I found some (very little) information in WorldCat and on the websites of the J. Paul Getty Museum and the National Portrait Gallery. He also has an (almost empty) entry in Wikidata. In his days, he was considered "a first-rate photographer" producing images of "indisputable artistic qualities". He is characterized in this book as "in those days [...] the photographer of the dandies of Florence". -- Lambiam 04:39, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Dr. Feelgood is a disambiguation page mentioning uses going back to WW2. Does anyone know how this term started, or what it connotes? I'm trying to think of a suitable epithet or soubriquet for someone projecting unwarranted optimism, e.g. politicians telling us how well things are going, when things actually suck. Thanks. 2601:648:8202:96B0:E0CB:579B:1F5:84ED ( talk) 22:44, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- The established term is "Pangloss", from a character in Candide. -- Khajidha ( talk) 22:50, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- Emile Coue was very famous in the 1920s for his slogan "Every day in every way I'm getting better and better". But "Dr. Feelgood" can also be a derogatory term for a physician who has a heavy hand in prescribing pain pills, sedatives etc (for example Mother's Little Helper). AnonMoos ( talk) 23:01, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks, good point about the pain pills. Stimulants were another thing like that and maybe still are. What was Pangloss's personality like? I'm trying to describe less of a philosophical optimist, than someone like a well-meaning motivational speaker or sports coach whose optimism is unfounded. Optimist: "You can do anything, if you put your mind to it". Me "Ok, I'd like to hear some new Beethoven sonatas, but Beethoven is dead--how do I bring him back to life? Gotcha". 2601:648:8202:96B0:E0CB:579B:1F5:84ED ( talk) 23:21, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- From dictionary.com: "Pangloss/ (ˈpænɡlɒs) / noun a person who views a situation with unwarranted optimism"-- Khajidha ( talk) 23:38, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- ( edit conflict)
- If you want to get pedantic, you could call him an
agathist. Btw, another 'Dr. Feelgood' example: "
Doctor Robert". (Who says the Stones & Beatles copied from each other?)
107.15.157.44 (
talk) 23:46, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks, and heh,
Dr. Feelgood mentions one candidate for Dr. Robert, but the song article mentions a few others. I don't want to be pedantic but I'm looking specifically for a slightly barbed epiphet that I can use to describe such a person. Like I heard a TV politician say that after coronavirus is over, the US economy will come back stronger than ever. "Well, Dr. Pangloss, whatever it is that we're going to do to make that happen, couldn't we have done it without the virus, and why didn't we?" -- does that sentence sound about right? Is there another name that would work better?
2601:648:8202:96B0:E0CB:579B:1F5:84ED (
talk) 23:52, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- Sure.
Pangloss: n. a person who views a situation with unwarranted optimism --
107.15.157.44 (
talk) 00:32, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks. I've figured out another aspect of what I'm trying to express. Say your team is the underdog for winning the championship. Here are 3 ways to describe the situation. 1) (Unwarranted optimism) Ignore the observable evidence that the other team is more likely to win, and decide (with sincerity) that your team is the best one and will win somehow. I think of Pangloss as being this. 2) (realism) Do the best statistical analysis that you can of the current standings etc., compute that your team has 12.7% likelihood of winning the championship, and announce that finding in a neutral tone like we supposedly do here on Wikipedia. Nerds like me are supposed to want this. 3) (Politician) Find out the above facts, then say: "Yes, we can win this for the Gipper! Go team!". That isn't a lie (12.7% is not zero) but from a nerd perspective it's unhelpful: I'd rather just get the number 12.7%, use my own interpretive ability to figure out that this number is not zero, and make appropriate decisions.
I'm looking for a name to associate with the "politician" approach rather than the "optimist" approach. Norman Vincent Peale maybe ( The Power of Positive Thinking)? Does that make any sense? Thanks again. 2601:648:8202:96B0:E0CB:579B:1F5:84ED ( talk) 07:50, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
- By the time you find the
perfect retort, the conversation will have moved on to another topic.
107.15.157.44 (
talk) 18:49, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
- See staircase wit. 2601:648:8202:96B0:E0CB:579B:1F5:84ED ( talk) 19:28, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
- By the time you find the
perfect retort, the conversation will have moved on to another topic.
107.15.157.44 (
talk) 18:49, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks. I've figured out another aspect of what I'm trying to express. Say your team is the underdog for winning the championship. Here are 3 ways to describe the situation. 1) (Unwarranted optimism) Ignore the observable evidence that the other team is more likely to win, and decide (with sincerity) that your team is the best one and will win somehow. I think of Pangloss as being this. 2) (realism) Do the best statistical analysis that you can of the current standings etc., compute that your team has 12.7% likelihood of winning the championship, and announce that finding in a neutral tone like we supposedly do here on Wikipedia. Nerds like me are supposed to want this. 3) (Politician) Find out the above facts, then say: "Yes, we can win this for the Gipper! Go team!". That isn't a lie (12.7% is not zero) but from a nerd perspective it's unhelpful: I'd rather just get the number 12.7%, use my own interpretive ability to figure out that this number is not zero, and make appropriate decisions.
- Sure.
Pangloss: n. a person who views a situation with unwarranted optimism --
107.15.157.44 (
talk) 00:32, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks, and heh,
Dr. Feelgood mentions one candidate for Dr. Robert, but the song article mentions a few others. I don't want to be pedantic but I'm looking specifically for a slightly barbed epiphet that I can use to describe such a person. Like I heard a TV politician say that after coronavirus is over, the US economy will come back stronger than ever. "Well, Dr. Pangloss, whatever it is that we're going to do to make that happen, couldn't we have done it without the virus, and why didn't we?" -- does that sentence sound about right? Is there another name that would work better?
2601:648:8202:96B0:E0CB:579B:1F5:84ED (
talk) 23:52, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
| Humanities desk | ||
|---|---|---|
| < April 10 | << Mar | April | May >> | April 12 > |
| Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives |
|---|
| The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
April 11 Information
When would Prince
David Kawānanakoa and Prince
Jonah Kūhiō Kalanianaʻole have visited Niagara Falls? From this source: Warinner, Emily V.; McFarland, Margaret Bukeley (1975).
A Royal Journey to London (PDF). Honolulu: Topgallant Publishing Company. p. 22.
ISBN
978-0-914916-11-6.
OCLC
4573808.{{
cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
KAVEBEAR (
talk) 02:47, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- Piecing the info together gleaned from newspaper-article snippets in the article
"Prince and Princess de Bourbon" on the website Images of Old Hawaiʻi, we see that:
- Prince Henry de Bourbon and his spouse Princess Maria Luisa visited the Kingdom in October 1889.
- They departed on October 29 on the SS Australia headed for San Francisco.
- Both Princes were also passengers.
- On November 2 the Bourbons were in San Francisco, planning to stay there four or five days and then proceed by train to New York via Niagara Falls.
- It is a reasonable assumption that the Hawaiʻian Princes accompanied the Bourbons also during this USA part of the trip, so if everything went according to plan they would have arrived in Niagara Falls around November 9, 1889. --
Lambiam 04:11, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- I don't have a train schedule from 1889, but it would be slower than trains in this day of diesel locomotives, and a trip of that distance would take 3 days today even if it wasn't necessary to stop off overnight between trains. (I can't readily check Amtrak schedules currently because their services are disrupted by the pandemic, but I have some experience in long-distance train travel.) Bottom line, I doubt they would have arrived before November 10 or 11. --
76.71.6.31 (
talk) 19:02, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- The Australia arrived in SF on November 1st. November 1 + 5 days of sojourn + 3 days of travel = November 9. --
Lambiam 19:26, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- "They will remain... four or five days". So November 2 + 4 days + 4 days of travel = November 10. -- 76.71.6.31 ( talk) 19:42, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- The Australia arrived in SF on November 1st. November 1 + 5 days of sojourn + 3 days of travel = November 9. --
Lambiam 19:26, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- I don't have a train schedule from 1889, but it would be slower than trains in this day of diesel locomotives, and a trip of that distance would take 3 days today even if it wasn't necessary to stop off overnight between trains. (I can't readily check Amtrak schedules currently because their services are disrupted by the pandemic, but I have some experience in long-distance train travel.) Bottom line, I doubt they would have arrived before November 10 or 11. --
76.71.6.31 (
talk) 19:02, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- When did they get off on their next stop after Niagara? New York?
KAVEBEAR (
talk) 00:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
- I haven't been able to find anything about that. -- Lambiam 09:40, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
ResolvedWho is this photographer? KAVEBEAR ( talk) 03:08, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- It is Michele Schemboche, who was active in Turin, Florence and Rome. I found some (very little) information in WorldCat and on the websites of the J. Paul Getty Museum and the National Portrait Gallery. He also has an (almost empty) entry in Wikidata. In his days, he was considered "a first-rate photographer" producing images of "indisputable artistic qualities". He is characterized in this book as "in those days [...] the photographer of the dandies of Florence". -- Lambiam 04:39, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Dr. Feelgood is a disambiguation page mentioning uses going back to WW2. Does anyone know how this term started, or what it connotes? I'm trying to think of a suitable epithet or soubriquet for someone projecting unwarranted optimism, e.g. politicians telling us how well things are going, when things actually suck. Thanks. 2601:648:8202:96B0:E0CB:579B:1F5:84ED ( talk) 22:44, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- The established term is "Pangloss", from a character in Candide. -- Khajidha ( talk) 22:50, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- Emile Coue was very famous in the 1920s for his slogan "Every day in every way I'm getting better and better". But "Dr. Feelgood" can also be a derogatory term for a physician who has a heavy hand in prescribing pain pills, sedatives etc (for example Mother's Little Helper). AnonMoos ( talk) 23:01, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks, good point about the pain pills. Stimulants were another thing like that and maybe still are. What was Pangloss's personality like? I'm trying to describe less of a philosophical optimist, than someone like a well-meaning motivational speaker or sports coach whose optimism is unfounded. Optimist: "You can do anything, if you put your mind to it". Me "Ok, I'd like to hear some new Beethoven sonatas, but Beethoven is dead--how do I bring him back to life? Gotcha". 2601:648:8202:96B0:E0CB:579B:1F5:84ED ( talk) 23:21, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- From dictionary.com: "Pangloss/ (ˈpænɡlɒs) / noun a person who views a situation with unwarranted optimism"-- Khajidha ( talk) 23:38, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- ( edit conflict)
- If you want to get pedantic, you could call him an
agathist. Btw, another 'Dr. Feelgood' example: "
Doctor Robert". (Who says the Stones & Beatles copied from each other?)
107.15.157.44 (
talk) 23:46, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks, and heh,
Dr. Feelgood mentions one candidate for Dr. Robert, but the song article mentions a few others. I don't want to be pedantic but I'm looking specifically for a slightly barbed epiphet that I can use to describe such a person. Like I heard a TV politician say that after coronavirus is over, the US economy will come back stronger than ever. "Well, Dr. Pangloss, whatever it is that we're going to do to make that happen, couldn't we have done it without the virus, and why didn't we?" -- does that sentence sound about right? Is there another name that would work better?
2601:648:8202:96B0:E0CB:579B:1F5:84ED (
talk) 23:52, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- Sure.
Pangloss: n. a person who views a situation with unwarranted optimism --
107.15.157.44 (
talk) 00:32, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks. I've figured out another aspect of what I'm trying to express. Say your team is the underdog for winning the championship. Here are 3 ways to describe the situation. 1) (Unwarranted optimism) Ignore the observable evidence that the other team is more likely to win, and decide (with sincerity) that your team is the best one and will win somehow. I think of Pangloss as being this. 2) (realism) Do the best statistical analysis that you can of the current standings etc., compute that your team has 12.7% likelihood of winning the championship, and announce that finding in a neutral tone like we supposedly do here on Wikipedia. Nerds like me are supposed to want this. 3) (Politician) Find out the above facts, then say: "Yes, we can win this for the Gipper! Go team!". That isn't a lie (12.7% is not zero) but from a nerd perspective it's unhelpful: I'd rather just get the number 12.7%, use my own interpretive ability to figure out that this number is not zero, and make appropriate decisions.
I'm looking for a name to associate with the "politician" approach rather than the "optimist" approach. Norman Vincent Peale maybe ( The Power of Positive Thinking)? Does that make any sense? Thanks again. 2601:648:8202:96B0:E0CB:579B:1F5:84ED ( talk) 07:50, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
- By the time you find the
perfect retort, the conversation will have moved on to another topic.
107.15.157.44 (
talk) 18:49, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
- See staircase wit. 2601:648:8202:96B0:E0CB:579B:1F5:84ED ( talk) 19:28, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
- By the time you find the
perfect retort, the conversation will have moved on to another topic.
107.15.157.44 (
talk) 18:49, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks. I've figured out another aspect of what I'm trying to express. Say your team is the underdog for winning the championship. Here are 3 ways to describe the situation. 1) (Unwarranted optimism) Ignore the observable evidence that the other team is more likely to win, and decide (with sincerity) that your team is the best one and will win somehow. I think of Pangloss as being this. 2) (realism) Do the best statistical analysis that you can of the current standings etc., compute that your team has 12.7% likelihood of winning the championship, and announce that finding in a neutral tone like we supposedly do here on Wikipedia. Nerds like me are supposed to want this. 3) (Politician) Find out the above facts, then say: "Yes, we can win this for the Gipper! Go team!". That isn't a lie (12.7% is not zero) but from a nerd perspective it's unhelpful: I'd rather just get the number 12.7%, use my own interpretive ability to figure out that this number is not zero, and make appropriate decisions.
- Sure.
Pangloss: n. a person who views a situation with unwarranted optimism --
107.15.157.44 (
talk) 00:32, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks, and heh,
Dr. Feelgood mentions one candidate for Dr. Robert, but the song article mentions a few others. I don't want to be pedantic but I'm looking specifically for a slightly barbed epiphet that I can use to describe such a person. Like I heard a TV politician say that after coronavirus is over, the US economy will come back stronger than ever. "Well, Dr. Pangloss, whatever it is that we're going to do to make that happen, couldn't we have done it without the virus, and why didn't we?" -- does that sentence sound about right? Is there another name that would work better?
2601:648:8202:96B0:E0CB:579B:1F5:84ED (
talk) 23:52, 11 April 2020 (UTC)