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The news today covered a statement by ISIS that for American Muslims to participate in an election - even to support Muslim causes - is a form of taghut, a sort of idolatrous offense against Allah by suggesting that someone else can make legislation. It seems to be a very strong rejection of positive law in all forms; in some ways it seemed reminiscent of a Christian anarchist position, actually. (Such is the atmosphere of this election that the essay by the world's foremost lunatics was actually one of the better-written and argued positions I've read about it lately, alas)
Anyway, I was curious... a) how widely is this believed? b) can you use this to deduce that an American Muslim who votes is definitely not a member of ISIS (note that American voting records - not the votes but whether you cast them - are essentially public), and per a, does that extend to Al Qaida and other groups? c) If this caught on (or is done already) would they consider going into the poll to cast a blank vote a "taghut" or would that be OK to deceive security forces? d) And if they did do that, how many people cast blank votes? Would that stand out as a strong indicator they were members, if some sinister three letter agency has access to that data (and who thinks they don't...)? Oh, yeah, and e) while I said "essentially public" I have no idea how to find out if Tashfeen Malik voted, for example, to see how this fits in with theory - any ideas?
I doubt I'm going to hear answers to all those, but at least there ought to be a section in taghut as to how that influences Muslim views of democracy and voting. I don't feel competent to write it myself. Wnt ( talk) 00:31, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
In my city cabbies can refuse to drive something with a strip club, alcohol or I think tobacco ad on it. Do NASCAR drivers have similar rights? If there's penalties and they're not willing to take them then are there penalties for believable, obvious, or farcical sandbagging? Sagittarian Milky Way ( talk) 04:11, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
This link includes a gallery of Conservative scholars and statesmen. Could you help me identify those I am missing?
Thank you in advance!!!
94.65.14.193 ( talk) 13:28, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
Is it possible that 4th row, second from left is Alain de Benoist? 17:13, 7 November 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:2149:813C:F300:941F:93A5:3344:C96E ( talk)
Which publishing house first published the plays of Oscar Wilde during his lifetime? Or did he self-publish them? 2A02:2149:813C:F300:941F:93A5:3344:C96E ( talk) 17:53, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
In the UK, banknotes purport to be cheques (they bear the words "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of"), but to what extent is this true? In England and Wales, Bank of England notes are legal tender, so declaring them to be cheques seems nonsensical.-- Leon ( talk) 20:32, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
Have a look at Negotiable Instruments - the original idea was to avoid carrying large amounts of cash on long journeys: a piece of paper which allowed you to exchange it for the cash at your destination was a lot safer. These came in two types - ones which authorised payment of the cash to a particular named person (which evolved into cheques), and ones which authorised payment to whoever had the piece of paper (which evolved into banknotes). Wymspen ( talk) 20:49, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
In England and Wales (but apparently not in Scotland) there is a concept of "legal tender". This sheet [3] seems to explain it quite well but I can't vouch for its reliability or whether it's up to date. Legal tender is what you are allowed to use for settling a debt. So if you owe council tax to the council and you take along a pile of used fivers to the exact amount they have to accept it, but if you take bags of 5p pieces they don't. But in the case of the national lottery they tell you in advance how your win would be paid [4] - cash up to a certain amount, cheque or bank transfer for a large sum - so if you don't like that idea, don't play the lottery. Or ask a bank to open a new account for you to pay in your lottery millions and then take all the money out in £1 coins. Itsmejudith ( talk) 11:02, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
Star trooper man, the promise is (or rather, used to be) made by the Chief Cashier of the Bank of England whose signature is on the note: that the Bank of England will pay you the money on the note face in coins if you brought the note in. If I pay you £5, it's not a promise made by me but a promise made by the bank. But this is now obsolete and the statement is merely customary: since all money in the UK is now fiat currency pound coins and bank notes are equally valid (or invalid, if you're a gold standard person). I'll quote the official explanation:
The words "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of five [ten/twenty/fifty] pounds" date from long ago when our notes represented deposits of gold. At that time, a member of the public could exchange one of our banknotes for gold to the same value. For example, a £5 note could be exchanged for five gold coins, called sovereigns. But the value of the pound has not been linked to gold for many years, so the meaning of the promise to pay has changed. Exchange into gold is no longer possible and Bank of England notes can only be exchanged for other Bank of England notes of the same face value.
The Bank of England is really now a regulator and doesn't offer bank accounts or banking services ( until this year it did for employees), but you can still walk in and exchange old banknotes and they will substitute them for you. Blythwood ( talk) 13:42, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
On the subject of statutes which are believed to be in force but are not, the copper coinage was demonetised by the Coinage Act 1860 which is not listed at List of Acts of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. In its place a new bronze coinage was issued, in the form of "bun" pennies, halfpennies and farthings and also a one - third farthing which was used in Malta until the twentieth century. Now, the 1860 coin set also included a proof half - farthing of the appropriate weight and dimension ( a proof is a highly - polished coin which, although being specially made, is just as much legal tender as the ordinary circulating version). So was this half - farthing legal tender up to decimalisation in 1971? (The farthing was demonetised by Royal Proclamation in 1961).
The document explains
There are some other coins which for historic or legal reasons are legal tender though they are not in general circulation.
So it might have been legally possible to spend a half farthing until 1971. 80.44.161.39 ( talk) 15:42, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
There was also a discussion at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 June 5#US Penny, in which Baseball Bugs excelled himself. The following question was posted but not answered:
This question is a follow - on from the discussion at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2016 February 18#Royal mint and legal tender. The Royal Mint is issuing a fifty pound coin. Its advertisement states
All coins made by the Royal Mint are legal tender whether commemorative or circulating, however only circulating legal tender coins are designed to be spent and traded at businesses and banks. This coin is a commemorative coin so banks, post offices and shops will not accept them.
As I understand it, the Mint instructed businesses not to accept the coins, something it has no authority to do. Say a customer enters a supermarket and fills her trolley with fifty pounds worth of groceries. By scanning the goods and producing a till receipt the cashier agrees the sale. The customer offers legal tender cash in payment in the form of a fifty pound coin. If the supermarket sued for the cost of the shopping the customer would have a complete answer to the complaint - the defence of "tender before action". So having tendered payment for her goods (an offer which the store has chosen to reject) is the customer entitled to walk out with her property? 86.128.234.239 ( talk) 18:49, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
I noticed various US folks liked to style themselves as Colonels in common civilian usage, like Colonel Sanders, Colonel Tom Parker, and non-human Colonel Ebirt or Colonel Meow (with Colonel Abrams apparently having it as a given name). Was this phenomenon discussed somewhere or it's just the popularity of colonel grade? Brandmeister talk 23:28, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
"To be named a “Colonel” is to be recognized for “outstanding service to community, state, and nation.” The sitting governor of Kentucky, or the Secretary of State of Kentucky, are the only ones who can bestow such an honor onto an individual. These colonels are “Kentucky’s ambassadors of goodwill and fellowship around the world” and are “people from all walks of life.”" Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 23:31, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
Humanities desk | ||
---|---|---|
< November 6 | << Oct | November | Dec >> | November 8 > |
Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives |
---|
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
The news today covered a statement by ISIS that for American Muslims to participate in an election - even to support Muslim causes - is a form of taghut, a sort of idolatrous offense against Allah by suggesting that someone else can make legislation. It seems to be a very strong rejection of positive law in all forms; in some ways it seemed reminiscent of a Christian anarchist position, actually. (Such is the atmosphere of this election that the essay by the world's foremost lunatics was actually one of the better-written and argued positions I've read about it lately, alas)
Anyway, I was curious... a) how widely is this believed? b) can you use this to deduce that an American Muslim who votes is definitely not a member of ISIS (note that American voting records - not the votes but whether you cast them - are essentially public), and per a, does that extend to Al Qaida and other groups? c) If this caught on (or is done already) would they consider going into the poll to cast a blank vote a "taghut" or would that be OK to deceive security forces? d) And if they did do that, how many people cast blank votes? Would that stand out as a strong indicator they were members, if some sinister three letter agency has access to that data (and who thinks they don't...)? Oh, yeah, and e) while I said "essentially public" I have no idea how to find out if Tashfeen Malik voted, for example, to see how this fits in with theory - any ideas?
I doubt I'm going to hear answers to all those, but at least there ought to be a section in taghut as to how that influences Muslim views of democracy and voting. I don't feel competent to write it myself. Wnt ( talk) 00:31, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
In my city cabbies can refuse to drive something with a strip club, alcohol or I think tobacco ad on it. Do NASCAR drivers have similar rights? If there's penalties and they're not willing to take them then are there penalties for believable, obvious, or farcical sandbagging? Sagittarian Milky Way ( talk) 04:11, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
This link includes a gallery of Conservative scholars and statesmen. Could you help me identify those I am missing?
Thank you in advance!!!
94.65.14.193 ( talk) 13:28, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
Is it possible that 4th row, second from left is Alain de Benoist? 17:13, 7 November 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:2149:813C:F300:941F:93A5:3344:C96E ( talk)
Which publishing house first published the plays of Oscar Wilde during his lifetime? Or did he self-publish them? 2A02:2149:813C:F300:941F:93A5:3344:C96E ( talk) 17:53, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
In the UK, banknotes purport to be cheques (they bear the words "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of"), but to what extent is this true? In England and Wales, Bank of England notes are legal tender, so declaring them to be cheques seems nonsensical.-- Leon ( talk) 20:32, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
Have a look at Negotiable Instruments - the original idea was to avoid carrying large amounts of cash on long journeys: a piece of paper which allowed you to exchange it for the cash at your destination was a lot safer. These came in two types - ones which authorised payment of the cash to a particular named person (which evolved into cheques), and ones which authorised payment to whoever had the piece of paper (which evolved into banknotes). Wymspen ( talk) 20:49, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
In England and Wales (but apparently not in Scotland) there is a concept of "legal tender". This sheet [3] seems to explain it quite well but I can't vouch for its reliability or whether it's up to date. Legal tender is what you are allowed to use for settling a debt. So if you owe council tax to the council and you take along a pile of used fivers to the exact amount they have to accept it, but if you take bags of 5p pieces they don't. But in the case of the national lottery they tell you in advance how your win would be paid [4] - cash up to a certain amount, cheque or bank transfer for a large sum - so if you don't like that idea, don't play the lottery. Or ask a bank to open a new account for you to pay in your lottery millions and then take all the money out in £1 coins. Itsmejudith ( talk) 11:02, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
Star trooper man, the promise is (or rather, used to be) made by the Chief Cashier of the Bank of England whose signature is on the note: that the Bank of England will pay you the money on the note face in coins if you brought the note in. If I pay you £5, it's not a promise made by me but a promise made by the bank. But this is now obsolete and the statement is merely customary: since all money in the UK is now fiat currency pound coins and bank notes are equally valid (or invalid, if you're a gold standard person). I'll quote the official explanation:
The words "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of five [ten/twenty/fifty] pounds" date from long ago when our notes represented deposits of gold. At that time, a member of the public could exchange one of our banknotes for gold to the same value. For example, a £5 note could be exchanged for five gold coins, called sovereigns. But the value of the pound has not been linked to gold for many years, so the meaning of the promise to pay has changed. Exchange into gold is no longer possible and Bank of England notes can only be exchanged for other Bank of England notes of the same face value.
The Bank of England is really now a regulator and doesn't offer bank accounts or banking services ( until this year it did for employees), but you can still walk in and exchange old banknotes and they will substitute them for you. Blythwood ( talk) 13:42, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
On the subject of statutes which are believed to be in force but are not, the copper coinage was demonetised by the Coinage Act 1860 which is not listed at List of Acts of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. In its place a new bronze coinage was issued, in the form of "bun" pennies, halfpennies and farthings and also a one - third farthing which was used in Malta until the twentieth century. Now, the 1860 coin set also included a proof half - farthing of the appropriate weight and dimension ( a proof is a highly - polished coin which, although being specially made, is just as much legal tender as the ordinary circulating version). So was this half - farthing legal tender up to decimalisation in 1971? (The farthing was demonetised by Royal Proclamation in 1961).
The document explains
There are some other coins which for historic or legal reasons are legal tender though they are not in general circulation.
So it might have been legally possible to spend a half farthing until 1971. 80.44.161.39 ( talk) 15:42, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
There was also a discussion at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 June 5#US Penny, in which Baseball Bugs excelled himself. The following question was posted but not answered:
This question is a follow - on from the discussion at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2016 February 18#Royal mint and legal tender. The Royal Mint is issuing a fifty pound coin. Its advertisement states
All coins made by the Royal Mint are legal tender whether commemorative or circulating, however only circulating legal tender coins are designed to be spent and traded at businesses and banks. This coin is a commemorative coin so banks, post offices and shops will not accept them.
As I understand it, the Mint instructed businesses not to accept the coins, something it has no authority to do. Say a customer enters a supermarket and fills her trolley with fifty pounds worth of groceries. By scanning the goods and producing a till receipt the cashier agrees the sale. The customer offers legal tender cash in payment in the form of a fifty pound coin. If the supermarket sued for the cost of the shopping the customer would have a complete answer to the complaint - the defence of "tender before action". So having tendered payment for her goods (an offer which the store has chosen to reject) is the customer entitled to walk out with her property? 86.128.234.239 ( talk) 18:49, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
I noticed various US folks liked to style themselves as Colonels in common civilian usage, like Colonel Sanders, Colonel Tom Parker, and non-human Colonel Ebirt or Colonel Meow (with Colonel Abrams apparently having it as a given name). Was this phenomenon discussed somewhere or it's just the popularity of colonel grade? Brandmeister talk 23:28, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
"To be named a “Colonel” is to be recognized for “outstanding service to community, state, and nation.” The sitting governor of Kentucky, or the Secretary of State of Kentucky, are the only ones who can bestow such an honor onto an individual. These colonels are “Kentucky’s ambassadors of goodwill and fellowship around the world” and are “people from all walks of life.”" Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 23:31, 7 November 2016 (UTC)