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October 10 Information
Why are there so few NHL hockey teams from Canada? I've always heard that hockey is Canada's "national sport" (though I've never taken this to be literal) but taking a look at the NHL article, it seems that only seven of the thirty teams in the league are Canadian. Saskatchewan, PEI, and the rest of the eastern and far northern territories/provinces don't even have a team. Is it the lower population density? I'd think so for the northern areas but what about Saskatchewan and the eastern areas? Or is it that American cities throw more money at sports teams? Dismas| (talk) 00:06, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- [OR alert]. We just don't have that many big cities that can (or want to) support a team. Charlottetown is the biggest city on PEI, with a whopping 32K people in 2006. Saskatoon is also a bit smallish with 257K in 2011. In the Maritimes, there's Saint John, New Brunswick (74K as of 2006) and Halifax, Nova Scotia (280-400K in 2010 depending on how much area you include). Plus the Toronto organization fights tooth and claw to keep a team out of Hamilton. The NHL decided to expand south for the $$$. Looking at it another way, we've only got a tenth of the population, so we're actually overrepresented in that sense (okay, I'm grasping at straws). Clarityfiend ( talk) 03:44, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- No, that's pretty much it. Canada has only 10% of the population of North America, so even with the far greater interest in hockey in Canada, you can't have much more than the current 7 teams (out of 30) there. There's really no other area in Canada with the population and business community to support an NHL team -- Quebec City would be much smaller than any of the league's U.S. markets, and even Winnipeg, which is about the same size but has a somewhat larger business community, is really stretching the concept of a major sports market. -- Mwalcoff ( talk) 04:20, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Even of the Original Six, only two were Canadian. Even if it's the "national sport" of Canada, hockey has historically been quite popular in the US northeast. Pfly ( talk) 04:27, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Just to prevent a wrong impression - there appears to be relatively few NHL teams, but the NHL is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Canadian hockey. Just as Americans support lots of college-based sports (basketball and football being the most notable), Canadians support many different levels of hockey (see Ontario Hockey League just to get started). Also, with hockey tickets being so pricey, even devout fans go to relatively few games (compared to, say, baseball fans), so it's no great stretch for people to cheer for a team that operates from a thousand miles away - either way, they're not going to the game. As the only male Canadian with no interest in hockey, I am excluded from many casual conversations as it's not uncommon for guys here to know only hockey (and know it well!) - its predominance here cannot be overstated. Matt Deres ( talk) 16:50, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Dismas might also be interested to note that the 7th NHL team is actually the former
Atlanta Thrashers and only just moved to Winnipeg. There is still some debate as to whether it is financially viable in the long term. Winnipeg is the smallest NHL city with the smallest building. We might love the sport in Canada, but we just don't have the corporate presence for the level of sponsorship pro sports demand.
Mingmingla (
talk)
17:14, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- I assume you mean the whole metro area? Because
Buffalo, NY, home of the Sabres has a city population of only 260,000 compared to 630,000 in
Winnipeg. And
Sunrise, FL only has 85,000, though it is a suburb of the more populous
Miami, FL.
Uniondale, NY, home of the New York Islanders only has 25,000 but again is just a suburb on NYC. Still, If
Green Bay, WI with a total metro area of 300,000 can fill
Lambeau Field, Winnipeg should be able to fill their rink which only holds 1/4 as many people.
Googlemeister (
talk)
19:54, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Green Bay is the exception that proves the rule, if there is such a thing. The NFL can exist in Green Bay because the NFL has no regular-season local TV contracts and plays only eight home games a year. Plus, the Packers are really the team of all of Wisconsin (except perhaps the area near Minneapolis), which has more than 5 million people. Green Bay can draw from Milwaukee, Madison, Appleton, Fon du Lac, etc. There's not much in Manitoba outside of Winnipeg. --
Mwalcoff (
talk)
22:46, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Green Bay is the last of the small-city NFL teams, and it came close to losing it to Milwaukee in the late 50s, until they built Lambeau Field to replace the high school stadium they were playing in... and also got very good in the 60s. Also, there are only 8 regular season NFL games, vs. 41 in the NHL. A football game is an "event". Not so for a regular season NHL game. Football can survive in cities that can't support a sport that has lots of games. ←
Baseball Bugs
What's up, Doc?
carrots→
01:17, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- The Green Bay Packers are in Green Bay because the team is publicly owned. It is literally owned by its fans, see
Green_Bay_Packers#Public_company. It is unlikely said shareholders would vote to move to, say, Los Angeles. The Packers also used to play two regular season games per year in Milwaukee, see
Milwaukee_County_Stadium#Green_Bay_Packers_.281953-1994.29 until recent renovations to Lambeau (corporate luxury boxes, basically) made it economically feasible to host all 8 games in Green Bay. The Packers also have been known to play exhibition (pre-season) games in
Camp Randall Stadium in Madison as well. As Bugs hints, however, the NFL financially hasn't ever been much about ticket sales; the economics of the sport make the national TV contracts and revenue sharing the major source of income for teams; that's what allows teams like the Packers able to survive economically alongside teams in major metro areas like New York and Chicago, and why L.A. hasn't had a football team in 17 years. Hockey is very different; given the MUCH smaller national TV contract, the teams survive more on local TV contracts and stadium ticket sales. Teams from smaller cities have a harder time of it given the lower advertising revenue from local TV contracts and thus really need to put behinds in seats in order to make enough money to be economically viable. Regarding the Thrashers move to Canada; this is the second time Hockey has failed in Atlanta, only to move to Canada (see
Calgary Flames); Atlanta is notoriously apathetic towards its sports teams; even when they are competitive teams, the Hawks, Braves, and Falcons have a hard time selling tickets to their games.(see
for one story, there's LOTS more like this. This is more about Atlanta than it is about Hockey in the U.S. in general. For the most part, most teams find an easier economic time in the U.S. than Canada, for all of the reasons noted by others. --
Jayron
32
13:17, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- The NFL was threatening to forfeit the Green Bay franchise in the mid-1950s, until they got a commitment for a new stadium to be built, to replace their high school field. Obviously, a unique situation. ← Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:20, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
- The Green Bay Packers are in Green Bay because the team is publicly owned. It is literally owned by its fans, see
Green_Bay_Packers#Public_company. It is unlikely said shareholders would vote to move to, say, Los Angeles. The Packers also used to play two regular season games per year in Milwaukee, see
Milwaukee_County_Stadium#Green_Bay_Packers_.281953-1994.29 until recent renovations to Lambeau (corporate luxury boxes, basically) made it economically feasible to host all 8 games in Green Bay. The Packers also have been known to play exhibition (pre-season) games in
Camp Randall Stadium in Madison as well. As Bugs hints, however, the NFL financially hasn't ever been much about ticket sales; the economics of the sport make the national TV contracts and revenue sharing the major source of income for teams; that's what allows teams like the Packers able to survive economically alongside teams in major metro areas like New York and Chicago, and why L.A. hasn't had a football team in 17 years. Hockey is very different; given the MUCH smaller national TV contract, the teams survive more on local TV contracts and stadium ticket sales. Teams from smaller cities have a harder time of it given the lower advertising revenue from local TV contracts and thus really need to put behinds in seats in order to make enough money to be economically viable. Regarding the Thrashers move to Canada; this is the second time Hockey has failed in Atlanta, only to move to Canada (see
Calgary Flames); Atlanta is notoriously apathetic towards its sports teams; even when they are competitive teams, the Hawks, Braves, and Falcons have a hard time selling tickets to their games.(see
for one story, there's LOTS more like this. This is more about Atlanta than it is about Hockey in the U.S. in general. For the most part, most teams find an easier economic time in the U.S. than Canada, for all of the reasons noted by others. --
Jayron
32
13:17, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Green Bay is the last of the small-city NFL teams, and it came close to losing it to Milwaukee in the late 50s, until they built Lambeau Field to replace the high school stadium they were playing in... and also got very good in the 60s. Also, there are only 8 regular season NFL games, vs. 41 in the NHL. A football game is an "event". Not so for a regular season NHL game. Football can survive in cities that can't support a sport that has lots of games. ←
Baseball Bugs
What's up, Doc?
carrots→
01:17, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Green Bay is the exception that proves the rule, if there is such a thing. The NFL can exist in Green Bay because the NFL has no regular-season local TV contracts and plays only eight home games a year. Plus, the Packers are really the team of all of Wisconsin (except perhaps the area near Minneapolis), which has more than 5 million people. Green Bay can draw from Milwaukee, Madison, Appleton, Fon du Lac, etc. There's not much in Manitoba outside of Winnipeg. --
Mwalcoff (
talk)
22:46, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- I assume you mean the whole metro area? Because
Buffalo, NY, home of the Sabres has a city population of only 260,000 compared to 630,000 in
Winnipeg. And
Sunrise, FL only has 85,000, though it is a suburb of the more populous
Miami, FL.
Uniondale, NY, home of the New York Islanders only has 25,000 but again is just a suburb on NYC. Still, If
Green Bay, WI with a total metro area of 300,000 can fill
Lambeau Field, Winnipeg should be able to fill their rink which only holds 1/4 as many people.
Googlemeister (
talk)
19:54, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- What about the Detroit–Windsor region? Since Windsor, Ontario is right across the border from Detroit, could the Red Wings be considered somewhat of a Canadian supported team? Zzyzx11 ( talk) 06:50, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, there are many Detroit fans in southwestern Ontario.
Adam Bishop (
talk)
07:36, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- I absolve them of their treason, as the alternative is the (ugh) Maple Leafs. Clarityfiend ( talk) 21:31, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, there are many Detroit fans in southwestern Ontario.
Adam Bishop (
talk)
07:36, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
Hi, I would like to know which musical instrument has been played at the beginning the song "Hung Up" and along it. Thank you. Exx8 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:15, 10 October 2011 (UTC).
- Sounds like a clock ticking and a synthesizer to me. Pfly ( talk) 04:23, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
I'm trying to find a copy of "Edition Spećiale" by Francis Cabrel. It was in Broadcast News (film). Where can I find a copy of the song? 24.90.204.234 ( talk) 07:08, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- It's on his album Quelq'un de l'interieur, available
here in both CD and mp3. --
Viennese Waltz
07:39, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Are there any copies available in the
United States of America?
24.90.204.234 (
talk)
19:15, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Change .co.uk to .com and, as if by magic, [1] appears. -- Viennese Waltz 19:23, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Are there any copies available in the
United States of America?
24.90.204.234 (
talk)
19:15, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
Thank you so much. 24.90.204.234 ( talk) 22:40, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
I`m trying to replicate the 1970 plymouth satellite/belvedere police car in the 1971 movie Vanishing Point. I need a clear picture of the badge on the door I can`t find it anywhere, not good w/computers don`t no where to look. I googled twentieh century fox, they made it. I ended up here, thought i`d give it a try. i know it says VISTA COUNTY on top SHERIFF`S DEPT on the bottom — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.130.62 ( talk) 21:36, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Does it exist on DVD? ← Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:05, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
-
This is the best I could find.
Clarityfiend (
talk)
01:04, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- This also has a couple shots, but probably still not clear enough :
[2]..
10draftsdeep (
talk)
19:49, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Both above links are to cars that say "HIGHWAY" on top, "PATROL" on bottom. Maybe this isn't the right car? Staecker ( talk) 12:50, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
- This also has a couple shots, but probably still not clear enough :
[2]..
10draftsdeep (
talk)
19:49, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
| Entertainment desk | ||
|---|---|---|
| < October 9 | << Sep | October | Nov >> | October 11 > |
| Welcome to the Wikipedia Entertainment Reference Desk Archives |
|---|
| The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
October 10 Information
Why are there so few NHL hockey teams from Canada? I've always heard that hockey is Canada's "national sport" (though I've never taken this to be literal) but taking a look at the NHL article, it seems that only seven of the thirty teams in the league are Canadian. Saskatchewan, PEI, and the rest of the eastern and far northern territories/provinces don't even have a team. Is it the lower population density? I'd think so for the northern areas but what about Saskatchewan and the eastern areas? Or is it that American cities throw more money at sports teams? Dismas| (talk) 00:06, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- [OR alert]. We just don't have that many big cities that can (or want to) support a team. Charlottetown is the biggest city on PEI, with a whopping 32K people in 2006. Saskatoon is also a bit smallish with 257K in 2011. In the Maritimes, there's Saint John, New Brunswick (74K as of 2006) and Halifax, Nova Scotia (280-400K in 2010 depending on how much area you include). Plus the Toronto organization fights tooth and claw to keep a team out of Hamilton. The NHL decided to expand south for the $$$. Looking at it another way, we've only got a tenth of the population, so we're actually overrepresented in that sense (okay, I'm grasping at straws). Clarityfiend ( talk) 03:44, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- No, that's pretty much it. Canada has only 10% of the population of North America, so even with the far greater interest in hockey in Canada, you can't have much more than the current 7 teams (out of 30) there. There's really no other area in Canada with the population and business community to support an NHL team -- Quebec City would be much smaller than any of the league's U.S. markets, and even Winnipeg, which is about the same size but has a somewhat larger business community, is really stretching the concept of a major sports market. -- Mwalcoff ( talk) 04:20, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Even of the Original Six, only two were Canadian. Even if it's the "national sport" of Canada, hockey has historically been quite popular in the US northeast. Pfly ( talk) 04:27, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Just to prevent a wrong impression - there appears to be relatively few NHL teams, but the NHL is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Canadian hockey. Just as Americans support lots of college-based sports (basketball and football being the most notable), Canadians support many different levels of hockey (see Ontario Hockey League just to get started). Also, with hockey tickets being so pricey, even devout fans go to relatively few games (compared to, say, baseball fans), so it's no great stretch for people to cheer for a team that operates from a thousand miles away - either way, they're not going to the game. As the only male Canadian with no interest in hockey, I am excluded from many casual conversations as it's not uncommon for guys here to know only hockey (and know it well!) - its predominance here cannot be overstated. Matt Deres ( talk) 16:50, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Dismas might also be interested to note that the 7th NHL team is actually the former
Atlanta Thrashers and only just moved to Winnipeg. There is still some debate as to whether it is financially viable in the long term. Winnipeg is the smallest NHL city with the smallest building. We might love the sport in Canada, but we just don't have the corporate presence for the level of sponsorship pro sports demand.
Mingmingla (
talk)
17:14, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- I assume you mean the whole metro area? Because
Buffalo, NY, home of the Sabres has a city population of only 260,000 compared to 630,000 in
Winnipeg. And
Sunrise, FL only has 85,000, though it is a suburb of the more populous
Miami, FL.
Uniondale, NY, home of the New York Islanders only has 25,000 but again is just a suburb on NYC. Still, If
Green Bay, WI with a total metro area of 300,000 can fill
Lambeau Field, Winnipeg should be able to fill their rink which only holds 1/4 as many people.
Googlemeister (
talk)
19:54, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Green Bay is the exception that proves the rule, if there is such a thing. The NFL can exist in Green Bay because the NFL has no regular-season local TV contracts and plays only eight home games a year. Plus, the Packers are really the team of all of Wisconsin (except perhaps the area near Minneapolis), which has more than 5 million people. Green Bay can draw from Milwaukee, Madison, Appleton, Fon du Lac, etc. There's not much in Manitoba outside of Winnipeg. --
Mwalcoff (
talk)
22:46, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Green Bay is the last of the small-city NFL teams, and it came close to losing it to Milwaukee in the late 50s, until they built Lambeau Field to replace the high school stadium they were playing in... and also got very good in the 60s. Also, there are only 8 regular season NFL games, vs. 41 in the NHL. A football game is an "event". Not so for a regular season NHL game. Football can survive in cities that can't support a sport that has lots of games. ←
Baseball Bugs
What's up, Doc?
carrots→
01:17, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- The Green Bay Packers are in Green Bay because the team is publicly owned. It is literally owned by its fans, see
Green_Bay_Packers#Public_company. It is unlikely said shareholders would vote to move to, say, Los Angeles. The Packers also used to play two regular season games per year in Milwaukee, see
Milwaukee_County_Stadium#Green_Bay_Packers_.281953-1994.29 until recent renovations to Lambeau (corporate luxury boxes, basically) made it economically feasible to host all 8 games in Green Bay. The Packers also have been known to play exhibition (pre-season) games in
Camp Randall Stadium in Madison as well. As Bugs hints, however, the NFL financially hasn't ever been much about ticket sales; the economics of the sport make the national TV contracts and revenue sharing the major source of income for teams; that's what allows teams like the Packers able to survive economically alongside teams in major metro areas like New York and Chicago, and why L.A. hasn't had a football team in 17 years. Hockey is very different; given the MUCH smaller national TV contract, the teams survive more on local TV contracts and stadium ticket sales. Teams from smaller cities have a harder time of it given the lower advertising revenue from local TV contracts and thus really need to put behinds in seats in order to make enough money to be economically viable. Regarding the Thrashers move to Canada; this is the second time Hockey has failed in Atlanta, only to move to Canada (see
Calgary Flames); Atlanta is notoriously apathetic towards its sports teams; even when they are competitive teams, the Hawks, Braves, and Falcons have a hard time selling tickets to their games.(see
for one story, there's LOTS more like this. This is more about Atlanta than it is about Hockey in the U.S. in general. For the most part, most teams find an easier economic time in the U.S. than Canada, for all of the reasons noted by others. --
Jayron
32
13:17, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- The NFL was threatening to forfeit the Green Bay franchise in the mid-1950s, until they got a commitment for a new stadium to be built, to replace their high school field. Obviously, a unique situation. ← Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:20, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
- The Green Bay Packers are in Green Bay because the team is publicly owned. It is literally owned by its fans, see
Green_Bay_Packers#Public_company. It is unlikely said shareholders would vote to move to, say, Los Angeles. The Packers also used to play two regular season games per year in Milwaukee, see
Milwaukee_County_Stadium#Green_Bay_Packers_.281953-1994.29 until recent renovations to Lambeau (corporate luxury boxes, basically) made it economically feasible to host all 8 games in Green Bay. The Packers also have been known to play exhibition (pre-season) games in
Camp Randall Stadium in Madison as well. As Bugs hints, however, the NFL financially hasn't ever been much about ticket sales; the economics of the sport make the national TV contracts and revenue sharing the major source of income for teams; that's what allows teams like the Packers able to survive economically alongside teams in major metro areas like New York and Chicago, and why L.A. hasn't had a football team in 17 years. Hockey is very different; given the MUCH smaller national TV contract, the teams survive more on local TV contracts and stadium ticket sales. Teams from smaller cities have a harder time of it given the lower advertising revenue from local TV contracts and thus really need to put behinds in seats in order to make enough money to be economically viable. Regarding the Thrashers move to Canada; this is the second time Hockey has failed in Atlanta, only to move to Canada (see
Calgary Flames); Atlanta is notoriously apathetic towards its sports teams; even when they are competitive teams, the Hawks, Braves, and Falcons have a hard time selling tickets to their games.(see
for one story, there's LOTS more like this. This is more about Atlanta than it is about Hockey in the U.S. in general. For the most part, most teams find an easier economic time in the U.S. than Canada, for all of the reasons noted by others. --
Jayron
32
13:17, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Green Bay is the last of the small-city NFL teams, and it came close to losing it to Milwaukee in the late 50s, until they built Lambeau Field to replace the high school stadium they were playing in... and also got very good in the 60s. Also, there are only 8 regular season NFL games, vs. 41 in the NHL. A football game is an "event". Not so for a regular season NHL game. Football can survive in cities that can't support a sport that has lots of games. ←
Baseball Bugs
What's up, Doc?
carrots→
01:17, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Green Bay is the exception that proves the rule, if there is such a thing. The NFL can exist in Green Bay because the NFL has no regular-season local TV contracts and plays only eight home games a year. Plus, the Packers are really the team of all of Wisconsin (except perhaps the area near Minneapolis), which has more than 5 million people. Green Bay can draw from Milwaukee, Madison, Appleton, Fon du Lac, etc. There's not much in Manitoba outside of Winnipeg. --
Mwalcoff (
talk)
22:46, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- I assume you mean the whole metro area? Because
Buffalo, NY, home of the Sabres has a city population of only 260,000 compared to 630,000 in
Winnipeg. And
Sunrise, FL only has 85,000, though it is a suburb of the more populous
Miami, FL.
Uniondale, NY, home of the New York Islanders only has 25,000 but again is just a suburb on NYC. Still, If
Green Bay, WI with a total metro area of 300,000 can fill
Lambeau Field, Winnipeg should be able to fill their rink which only holds 1/4 as many people.
Googlemeister (
talk)
19:54, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- What about the Detroit–Windsor region? Since Windsor, Ontario is right across the border from Detroit, could the Red Wings be considered somewhat of a Canadian supported team? Zzyzx11 ( talk) 06:50, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, there are many Detroit fans in southwestern Ontario.
Adam Bishop (
talk)
07:36, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- I absolve them of their treason, as the alternative is the (ugh) Maple Leafs. Clarityfiend ( talk) 21:31, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, there are many Detroit fans in southwestern Ontario.
Adam Bishop (
talk)
07:36, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
Hi, I would like to know which musical instrument has been played at the beginning the song "Hung Up" and along it. Thank you. Exx8 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:15, 10 October 2011 (UTC).
- Sounds like a clock ticking and a synthesizer to me. Pfly ( talk) 04:23, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
I'm trying to find a copy of "Edition Spećiale" by Francis Cabrel. It was in Broadcast News (film). Where can I find a copy of the song? 24.90.204.234 ( talk) 07:08, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- It's on his album Quelq'un de l'interieur, available
here in both CD and mp3. --
Viennese Waltz
07:39, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Are there any copies available in the
United States of America?
24.90.204.234 (
talk)
19:15, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Change .co.uk to .com and, as if by magic, [1] appears. -- Viennese Waltz 19:23, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Are there any copies available in the
United States of America?
24.90.204.234 (
talk)
19:15, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
Thank you so much. 24.90.204.234 ( talk) 22:40, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
I`m trying to replicate the 1970 plymouth satellite/belvedere police car in the 1971 movie Vanishing Point. I need a clear picture of the badge on the door I can`t find it anywhere, not good w/computers don`t no where to look. I googled twentieh century fox, they made it. I ended up here, thought i`d give it a try. i know it says VISTA COUNTY on top SHERIFF`S DEPT on the bottom — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.130.62 ( talk) 21:36, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Does it exist on DVD? ← Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:05, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
-
This is the best I could find.
Clarityfiend (
talk)
01:04, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- This also has a couple shots, but probably still not clear enough :
[2]..
10draftsdeep (
talk)
19:49, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Both above links are to cars that say "HIGHWAY" on top, "PATROL" on bottom. Maybe this isn't the right car? Staecker ( talk) 12:50, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
- This also has a couple shots, but probably still not clear enough :
[2]..
10draftsdeep (
talk)
19:49, 11 October 2011 (UTC)