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December 26 Information
Dear All
I am a complete computer noob, but I would like to know if there are computers for home usage which are more robust and can last much longer than the usual machines. Most of my own computers worked up to 10 years at best. So are there computers which could work longer, like 20-30 years or even longer? Computers which were not designed with a planned obsolescence in mind?-- 2A02:120B:C3E7:E650:B8B8:F986:1D7A:31C4 ( talk) 16:12, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
- Computers are not designed to fail. The issue is size. As components get smaller and smaller, a microscopic failure can cause systematic failure. When any single component fails, the entire computer is commonly replaced because computers are relatively cheap and cost of repair is relatively high. But, if you wanted to repair the failed component, the computer could continue working. My experience is that the older the computer, the longer it lasts. 135.84.167.41 ( talk) 18:37, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
- Another aspect is quick evolution of technology. Hardware components can get cheaper by as much as 1.5-2x a year. Another problem today is that the major paid OS manufacturers (Microsoft, Apple, Google) all sell hardware too nowadays, so they make the software bloated on purpose and have cause to make shitty hardware too. Most 15+ old computers can still run modern Linux flawlessly provided you stick to the low-graphics choices. Android, Windows and OS X/iOS don't support old computers unless you count in old unsupported operating systems.
89.172.38.89 (
talk) 23:40, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
- Apple has sold hardware since the 1970s.
JIP |
Talk 01:09, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
- They have the most experience in this game, naturally
[1]
[2]
[3]
[4]...
[5]
[6]...
[7]
[8]
89.172.85.141 (
talk) 02:52, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
- Things like these make me think people think Apple's history began with the iPhone. Completely ignoring the Apple I, the Apple II and the entire Macintosh range.
JIP |
Talk 16:26, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
- Apple has been practicing planned obsolescence, several hundred dollar profit margins on computers and now phones and dropping support for computers that were still more than fast enough even for newest Windows at the time, for longer than the age of the computers any of us here are using right now. You're not typing this on Apple II. Why bring it up?
93.136.119.49 (
talk) 22:30, 29 December 2019 (UTC) (89.172)
- This very discussion mentioned "Microsoft, Apple, Google all sell hardware too nowadays" (emphasis mine) when Apple has been selling hardware for four decades. And yes, I'm not typing this on an Apple II, but I'm not typing this on an original IBM PC either. Technology changes over time, regardless of the politics and motives of the owning companies.
JIP |
Talk 22:35, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
- Sorry JIP, I thought you were trying to argue against my Apple-bashing. I added nowadays because the other two didn't sell hardware until the last 10-15 years or so, to emphasize that we live in a fairly dark part of computing history competition-wise, even if none of these companies have a monopoly. 93.136.48.84 ( talk) 18:09, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- I would argue that Apple (and similar companies) do not plan for the computers (or other hardware) ot become obsolete. They force software to become obsolete. As mentioned, the hardware still works well when it is declared "unsupported" by the company. I am thinking of this as compared to the automotive industry where car components are designed to fail. A common anecdote is Henry Ford going to junk yards and pulling components off old Fords. He took them to the engineers and told them that the component needed to be cheaper because it lasted too long. I haven't heard a similar anecdote in the computing industry.
135.84.167.41 (
talk) 15:37, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Uh, well, perhaps you'd like to acquaint yourself with a little thing known as
right to repair and how Apple's in the middle of a controversy about consumers' inability to maintain Apple hardware because of Apple's decisions to be proprietary. There is more than one hardware manufacturer that enjoys covering components in hot snot in order to prevent reverse engineering, and therefore repair, as well.
Elizium23 (
talk) 15:47, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- I believe you are missing the point of the question. Does Apple produce hardware that is intended to fail after a certain number of years? No. They don't. Does Apple use proprietary hardware? Mostly. But, when you get to the insides, it isn't too special. My iMac G3 is heavily upgraded and still works well. I dumped OS X for Linux long ago. My daughter likes it because it is cute. So, she uses it for email, writing, and general web surfing - mostly watching Youtube videos. I am, right now, turning another old Apple computer into a VHS to DVD station by adding AV capture. Again, I deleted the OS and replaced it with Linux. It has a built-in DVD burner. I'm scripting the process so the user will only need to type in the name to put on the DVD, press play on the external VCR, and click the "Record" button. When the video stops, click the "Stop" button and it will make the DVD and eject it. $13 in parts I didn't have, using old hardware I did have, and I can get a closet full of old VHS tapes on DVD. Apple hardware still works and works well. It is the software that they use to keep you buying more and more. But, don't think that I'm an Apple guy. I tell Apple people to quit buying Apple. Every year, they charge you more and more for less and less hardware. Why did they increase the cost of the phone after removing the headphone jack? It should be cheaper. But, that is a different topic. 135.84.167.41 ( talk) 13:36, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
- I think this is pretty much everyone's strategy right now. Typing this on a 16 year old ex-Windows XP laptop running Linux. 93.136.45.119 ( talk) 20:10, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
- Uh, well, perhaps you'd like to acquaint yourself with a little thing known as
right to repair and how Apple's in the middle of a controversy about consumers' inability to maintain Apple hardware because of Apple's decisions to be proprietary. There is more than one hardware manufacturer that enjoys covering components in hot snot in order to prevent reverse engineering, and therefore repair, as well.
Elizium23 (
talk) 15:47, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- This very discussion mentioned "Microsoft, Apple, Google all sell hardware too nowadays" (emphasis mine) when Apple has been selling hardware for four decades. And yes, I'm not typing this on an Apple II, but I'm not typing this on an original IBM PC either. Technology changes over time, regardless of the politics and motives of the owning companies.
JIP |
Talk 22:35, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
- Apple has been practicing planned obsolescence, several hundred dollar profit margins on computers and now phones and dropping support for computers that were still more than fast enough even for newest Windows at the time, for longer than the age of the computers any of us here are using right now. You're not typing this on Apple II. Why bring it up?
93.136.119.49 (
talk) 22:30, 29 December 2019 (UTC) (89.172)
- Things like these make me think people think Apple's history began with the iPhone. Completely ignoring the Apple I, the Apple II and the entire Macintosh range.
JIP |
Talk 16:26, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
- They have the most experience in this game, naturally
[1]
[2]
[3]
[4]...
[5]
[6]...
[7]
[8]
89.172.85.141 (
talk) 02:52, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
- Apple has sold hardware since the 1970s.
JIP |
Talk 01:09, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
- Another aspect is quick evolution of technology. Hardware components can get cheaper by as much as 1.5-2x a year. Another problem today is that the major paid OS manufacturers (Microsoft, Apple, Google) all sell hardware too nowadays, so they make the software bloated on purpose and have cause to make shitty hardware too. Most 15+ old computers can still run modern Linux flawlessly provided you stick to the low-graphics choices. Android, Windows and OS X/iOS don't support old computers unless you count in old unsupported operating systems.
89.172.38.89 (
talk) 23:40, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
- Note that the system requirements haven't changed much from Windows 7 to 8 to 8.1 to 10: [9]. So, the same old hardware that ran Windows 7 could possibly run Windows 10. NonmalignedNations ( talk) 01:46, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
| Computing desk | ||
|---|---|---|
| < December 25 | << Nov | December | Jan >> | Current desk > |
| Welcome to the Wikipedia Computing Reference Desk Archives |
|---|
| The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
December 26 Information
Dear All
I am a complete computer noob, but I would like to know if there are computers for home usage which are more robust and can last much longer than the usual machines. Most of my own computers worked up to 10 years at best. So are there computers which could work longer, like 20-30 years or even longer? Computers which were not designed with a planned obsolescence in mind?-- 2A02:120B:C3E7:E650:B8B8:F986:1D7A:31C4 ( talk) 16:12, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
- Computers are not designed to fail. The issue is size. As components get smaller and smaller, a microscopic failure can cause systematic failure. When any single component fails, the entire computer is commonly replaced because computers are relatively cheap and cost of repair is relatively high. But, if you wanted to repair the failed component, the computer could continue working. My experience is that the older the computer, the longer it lasts. 135.84.167.41 ( talk) 18:37, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
- Another aspect is quick evolution of technology. Hardware components can get cheaper by as much as 1.5-2x a year. Another problem today is that the major paid OS manufacturers (Microsoft, Apple, Google) all sell hardware too nowadays, so they make the software bloated on purpose and have cause to make shitty hardware too. Most 15+ old computers can still run modern Linux flawlessly provided you stick to the low-graphics choices. Android, Windows and OS X/iOS don't support old computers unless you count in old unsupported operating systems.
89.172.38.89 (
talk) 23:40, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
- Apple has sold hardware since the 1970s.
JIP |
Talk 01:09, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
- They have the most experience in this game, naturally
[1]
[2]
[3]
[4]...
[5]
[6]...
[7]
[8]
89.172.85.141 (
talk) 02:52, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
- Things like these make me think people think Apple's history began with the iPhone. Completely ignoring the Apple I, the Apple II and the entire Macintosh range.
JIP |
Talk 16:26, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
- Apple has been practicing planned obsolescence, several hundred dollar profit margins on computers and now phones and dropping support for computers that were still more than fast enough even for newest Windows at the time, for longer than the age of the computers any of us here are using right now. You're not typing this on Apple II. Why bring it up?
93.136.119.49 (
talk) 22:30, 29 December 2019 (UTC) (89.172)
- This very discussion mentioned "Microsoft, Apple, Google all sell hardware too nowadays" (emphasis mine) when Apple has been selling hardware for four decades. And yes, I'm not typing this on an Apple II, but I'm not typing this on an original IBM PC either. Technology changes over time, regardless of the politics and motives of the owning companies.
JIP |
Talk 22:35, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
- Sorry JIP, I thought you were trying to argue against my Apple-bashing. I added nowadays because the other two didn't sell hardware until the last 10-15 years or so, to emphasize that we live in a fairly dark part of computing history competition-wise, even if none of these companies have a monopoly. 93.136.48.84 ( talk) 18:09, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- I would argue that Apple (and similar companies) do not plan for the computers (or other hardware) ot become obsolete. They force software to become obsolete. As mentioned, the hardware still works well when it is declared "unsupported" by the company. I am thinking of this as compared to the automotive industry where car components are designed to fail. A common anecdote is Henry Ford going to junk yards and pulling components off old Fords. He took them to the engineers and told them that the component needed to be cheaper because it lasted too long. I haven't heard a similar anecdote in the computing industry.
135.84.167.41 (
talk) 15:37, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Uh, well, perhaps you'd like to acquaint yourself with a little thing known as
right to repair and how Apple's in the middle of a controversy about consumers' inability to maintain Apple hardware because of Apple's decisions to be proprietary. There is more than one hardware manufacturer that enjoys covering components in hot snot in order to prevent reverse engineering, and therefore repair, as well.
Elizium23 (
talk) 15:47, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- I believe you are missing the point of the question. Does Apple produce hardware that is intended to fail after a certain number of years? No. They don't. Does Apple use proprietary hardware? Mostly. But, when you get to the insides, it isn't too special. My iMac G3 is heavily upgraded and still works well. I dumped OS X for Linux long ago. My daughter likes it because it is cute. So, she uses it for email, writing, and general web surfing - mostly watching Youtube videos. I am, right now, turning another old Apple computer into a VHS to DVD station by adding AV capture. Again, I deleted the OS and replaced it with Linux. It has a built-in DVD burner. I'm scripting the process so the user will only need to type in the name to put on the DVD, press play on the external VCR, and click the "Record" button. When the video stops, click the "Stop" button and it will make the DVD and eject it. $13 in parts I didn't have, using old hardware I did have, and I can get a closet full of old VHS tapes on DVD. Apple hardware still works and works well. It is the software that they use to keep you buying more and more. But, don't think that I'm an Apple guy. I tell Apple people to quit buying Apple. Every year, they charge you more and more for less and less hardware. Why did they increase the cost of the phone after removing the headphone jack? It should be cheaper. But, that is a different topic. 135.84.167.41 ( talk) 13:36, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
- I think this is pretty much everyone's strategy right now. Typing this on a 16 year old ex-Windows XP laptop running Linux. 93.136.45.119 ( talk) 20:10, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
- Uh, well, perhaps you'd like to acquaint yourself with a little thing known as
right to repair and how Apple's in the middle of a controversy about consumers' inability to maintain Apple hardware because of Apple's decisions to be proprietary. There is more than one hardware manufacturer that enjoys covering components in hot snot in order to prevent reverse engineering, and therefore repair, as well.
Elizium23 (
talk) 15:47, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- This very discussion mentioned "Microsoft, Apple, Google all sell hardware too nowadays" (emphasis mine) when Apple has been selling hardware for four decades. And yes, I'm not typing this on an Apple II, but I'm not typing this on an original IBM PC either. Technology changes over time, regardless of the politics and motives of the owning companies.
JIP |
Talk 22:35, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
- Apple has been practicing planned obsolescence, several hundred dollar profit margins on computers and now phones and dropping support for computers that were still more than fast enough even for newest Windows at the time, for longer than the age of the computers any of us here are using right now. You're not typing this on Apple II. Why bring it up?
93.136.119.49 (
talk) 22:30, 29 December 2019 (UTC) (89.172)
- Things like these make me think people think Apple's history began with the iPhone. Completely ignoring the Apple I, the Apple II and the entire Macintosh range.
JIP |
Talk 16:26, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
- They have the most experience in this game, naturally
[1]
[2]
[3]
[4]...
[5]
[6]...
[7]
[8]
89.172.85.141 (
talk) 02:52, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
- Apple has sold hardware since the 1970s.
JIP |
Talk 01:09, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
- Another aspect is quick evolution of technology. Hardware components can get cheaper by as much as 1.5-2x a year. Another problem today is that the major paid OS manufacturers (Microsoft, Apple, Google) all sell hardware too nowadays, so they make the software bloated on purpose and have cause to make shitty hardware too. Most 15+ old computers can still run modern Linux flawlessly provided you stick to the low-graphics choices. Android, Windows and OS X/iOS don't support old computers unless you count in old unsupported operating systems.
89.172.38.89 (
talk) 23:40, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
- Note that the system requirements haven't changed much from Windows 7 to 8 to 8.1 to 10: [9]. So, the same old hardware that ran Windows 7 could possibly run Windows 10. NonmalignedNations ( talk) 01:46, 2 January 2020 (UTC)