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Either sync them with the same target, or delete them both. Either way, I advocate delete as unclear why these redirects targets either one of their targets.Steel1943 (
talk)
22:38, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose deletion, support synching. Every Wikimedia project that allows fair use must have an "exemption doctrine policy" (see
wmf:Resolution:Licensing policy),
Wikipedia:Non-free content (
WP:NFC) says at the start of the third paragraph "This document serves as the exemption doctrine policy of the English Wikipedia.", and
Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria (
WP:NFCC) says at the top "As per the
Wikimedia Foundation Licensing policy resolution of March 23, 2007, this document serves as the Exemption Doctrine Policy for the English Wikipedia.". So the redirect is explained and quite possibly required - someone searching for the en.wp exemption doctrine policy will likely try one of these redirects first if they don't know we call it something different. I have a slight preference for the latter (WP:NFCC) as this is the actual policy (and is transcluded on WP:NFC), with the remainder of WP:NFC serving as explanation, examples, processes, etc., however I will not stand in the way of the other target if others prefer that.
Thryduulf (
talk)
00:24, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Retarget both to WP:NFC, which according to the WMF licensing policy, is located at
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Non-free_content. WP:NFCC previously claimed to be the EDP (which is probably why one of these redirects went to it), but since the Foundation policy overrules anything to the contrary on our local projects, I've removed that claim.
Nyttend (
talk)
00:58, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Retarget both to WP:NFCC. Chatting with
Masem, I've learnt that the pages have been moved around in the years since the licensing policy was created. At that time, the EDP was located at WP:NFC, but it's since been moved to WP:NFCC, and NFC is now an information about about NFCC. Masem and I have done a little work at clarifying the situation.
Nyttend (
talk)
01:43, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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Wikipedia:Exclusion compliant
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
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Rationale change: This is a
WP:XNR, but it may be clear. However, is there a clearer, more useful target for this redirect, such as a page in the "Wikipedia:" namespace?
Steel1943 (
talk)
00:52, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep.
WP:XNR is principally about main → project (or more broadly reader-facing to non-reader-facing) namespaces. Redirects out of project space do not generally have the same problems, and I see nothing inherently bad or problematic about Project: to Template: redirects.
Template:Bots is the template that deals with the exclusion (and inclusion) of bots and the documentation of it (displayed on the template page) seems to be the principle place it is explained, e.g.
Wikipedia:Bot policy does not feature the word "exclusion" and
Wikipedia:Bots mentions it only once in passing. I'll leave a note at
Wikipedia:Bot owner's noticeboard about this discussion though.
Thryduulf (
talk)
00:33, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep, since as noted, project-to-template redirects aren't a significant issue per se, and since this is presumably the most relevant page for explaining the project-specific meaning of "exclusion compliant", it shouldn't be modified. No objection to retargeting if a better target is found, or if an explanation is added to the bot policy.
Nyttend (
talk)
00:39, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
It would really help if the bot policy were expanded with a short discussion of this topic, but as I don't know bots, I won't start any proposals; I'd be happy to support a proposal that looked useful, however.
Nyttend (
talk)
01:00, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
I looked at that. My feeling is that someone using this redirect is likely to want to know what exclusion compliant means, and/or find some information about how it works, when it applies/doesn't apply, any policies/guidelines around it - the sort of thing you expect to find on a project space page. The category page does almost none of this, and implicitly points people wanting information to
Template:Bots which is where they will currently arrive directly and will find at least most of what they are looking for.
Thryduulf (
talk)
18:07, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Given that the visible element of the template page consists entirely of the transcluded /doc page that's a rather academic retargetting.
Thryduulf (
talk)
22:14, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep - what Thryduulf said. No opinion yet on the suggestion to refine the redirect to the documentation subpage. On the one hand, it would prevent accidental transclusions. On the other, it makes it a little harder for a novice user to navigate back up to the actual category list.
Rossami(talk)02:48, 9 February 2017 (UTC)reply
<!-- Whether the bot skips articles and other pages with the {{bots}} template. If "no", please provide a reason in the Function details or Discussion.-->
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Twinkle, another anti vandalism tool
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Delete Agree with both of the above editors. This was created by a now-blocked editor who claimed to be a child and had CIR issues.
Meters (
talk)
00:39, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
(
edit conflict) Delete. Relatively recently created unnecessary cross-namespace redirect. If we had an encyclopaedia article about the gadget then I'd have little problem redirecting this there, but we don't.
Thryduulf (
talk)
00:40, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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STiki, another anti vandalism tool
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Delete Agree with both of the above editors. This was created by a now-blocked editor who claimed to be a child and had CIR issues.
Meters (
talk)
00:39, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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Wikipedia:Exclude in print
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WP:XNR that may need to be targeting elsewhere. I would think that there would be a page in the "Wikipedia:" or "Help:" namespace that could explain the content at the redirect's target category page, but I'm not finding one right now. Also, the title could be confused with the term "Wikipedia:Unprintworthy".
Steel1943 (
talk)
22:16, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Don't delete, otherwise known as "keep or retarget". I say this because I'm unclear whether you're considering deletion as an option. If nothing better exists, this should remain as a redirect to its current target, but if anyone can suggest a better target, I'm fine redirecting this there.
Nyttend (
talk)
00:38, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep or retarget exactly per Nyttend. Redirects from the project namespace to project-related categories are completely unproblematic in the general case.
Thryduulf (
talk)
00:42, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
I'm not sure what content you could put at this title other than what is already documented at the top of the Category page. Creating a separate page without good reason strikes me as a bad idea. It would be all-too easy for the two versions to drift out of synch, leaving new readers/users confused as to which page is correct. The redirect keeps everything in one place. If there were a lot more to say, a separate page would make sense but I just don't see that yet.
Rossami(talk)02:42, 9 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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ADW.Launcher
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
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Delete - this page was created accidentally, by me, almost 15 years ago, back in the days when namespaces were a new invention. There's nothing of value in the page history to justify keeping it.
Enchanter (
talk)
20:27, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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Wikipedia:Wikipedia Globe Logo
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This is current a redirect from project space to article space, there is nothing inherently wrong with such redirects (they don't have the same issues as redirects in the opposite direction), but I'm wondering if
Wikipedia:Wikipedia logos - the project-space page about the history of Wikipedia's logos (including the present globe) would make a better target? It has the advantage of being a project space page like the redirect but is focused very differently to the encyclopaedia article that people currently arrive at (and was I think moved from here originally). The project space page is linked by a self-ref hatnote from the article currently but the article is only a see-also on the project page. Neither page is exclusively about the globe logo.
Thryduulf (
talk)
21:41, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep as is, I think. Deletion is off the table because this was apparently part of a very complicated series of pagemoves of the content now at the current target. Given the dates, some of that history would be lost if the page were deleted and we might well break external links. Re: retargetting... Actually, I can't help wondering why we have two pages in two separate spaces. The WP-space content seems like content that could reasonably be included in the article-space version. Maybe merge? But if there's a reason not to merge (and there might be - I haven't dug through all the talk discussions yet), then I think the better linking on the article-space version argues as the more helpful target.
Rossami(talk)02:35, 9 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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The Legends of the Underzoo (film)
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
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Delete per
WP:CRYSTAL. There's no film by this name, and I'm not even getting a hit at
IMDb, which means a film isn't even in development. There's no mention anywhere on Wikipedia, so someone searching this isn't going to find anything. --
Tavix(
talk)20:32, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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Matthew Healy
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Some history that the nomination left out: Here is the
AfD discussion which was closed on 2016 Aug 1 as redirect for lack of independent notability. Following the AfD closure, there were repeated attempts to restore the original article, resulting in page-protection. The revert wars appear to have restarted almost immediately after the protection ran out.
Rossami(talk)19:28, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Leave it as redirect until and unless sufficient evidence is presented to justify overturning the AfD discussion. I note specifically that the most recent attempts do not meet that threshold. They are essentially identical to the version that was evaluated in the AfD discussion and found wanting. As a process matter, RfD is not the appropriate forum to re-litigate an AfD decision. If you think the AfD decision was in error, take it to DRV.
Rossami(talk)19:28, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Redirect - I was involved in the original AfD. I see no reason to change this now. The OP hasn't indicated how he is notable outside of the band.
Karst (
talk)
23:05, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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American War
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Too vague to be useful.
List of wars involving the United States would be a better target, but the term implies a specific war, and I don't think any one conflict is best known as "American War" in English—and note that more plausible search terms like American wars already redirect there. The lowercase variant started as an article asserting that the Vietnamese call (what we call) the Vietnam War the "American War", which makes sense, though retargeting there would
WP:SURPRISE. --
BDD (
talk)
20:57, 19 January 2017 (UTC)reply
we have enough different pages of wars, conflicts, interventions, etc. is also confusing - enough for what? There is no limit to the number of pages on any given subject, so it's irrelevant how many already exist - if another redirect or disambiguation page is needed it should exist, regardless of what otherstuff exists. Whether it should exist or not depends only on whether it is a useful search term. On the other hand you could equally mean that we have enough articles to support a disambiguation page.
Thryduulf (
talk)
12:03, 29 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Disambiguate. I don't support deletion since the Vietnam War was definitely also known as the "American War". I'd support a retarget there, but I'm afraid it may be a surprise for someone looking for another war in which the United States was involved. Therefore, I believe disambiguation to be the most elegant solution. --
Tavix(
talk)17:45, 29 January 2017 (UTC)reply
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Bush Quayle
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment:Bush-Quayle was brought up in the discussion, so I'm adding it to the nomination.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –
Uanfala (talk)18:46, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Retarget per Angus. Deleting it would be unhelpful, and since other President-Vice President pairs have redirects, we should treat this one like them.
Nyttend (
talk)
00:04, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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Server 2008 and others
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Disambig. Yes they are all partial title matches, but that is irrelevant as they all referred to by the partial title and so the search term is ambiguous.
Thryduulf (
talk)
11:03, 14 January 2017 (UTC)reply
I would not support disambiguation for there are exactly only two titles that these can refer to, search results are still the best option, while I would not oppose a hatnote. - CHAMPION(
talk) (
contributions) (
logs) 00:53, 16 January 2017 (UTC)reply
I do no think search results are good solution here because there are many irrelevant articles brought up that it's not easy to find the article about what people are likely to be looking for. There is no rule that requires three ambiguous titles before a disambiguation page is required - only that there be two or more uses without a primary topic, which is exactly what we have here.
Thryduulf (
talk)
09:00, 17 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete all as ambiguous. Other companies also produced servers in these years, so I think those are potential targets as well (see, e.g.,
macOS Server). I think the best solution is to let readers sort this out through the search function. FYI, I also added four related redirects to this discussion. --
Notecardforfree (
talk)
02:27, 16 January 2017 (UTC)reply
@
Notecardforfree: fine in theory, but the search results include so many irrelevant results that it's very difficult for readers to sort it out that way. Our goal is to make it easier for people to navigate the encyclopaedia not harder. If other articles are also known by this phrase then the correct thing to do is add them to the dab page.
Thryduulf (
talk)
23:38, 22 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Thryduulf, I'm not opposed to the idea of disambiguation in principle, but I'm not sure how you would feasibly accomplish disambiguation here. Would you create a
List of servers? We have
List of display servers and
List of FTP server software, though I don't know enough about computer servers to determine whether either would be an appropriate place to disambiguate these topics. Alternatively, would you disambiguate all servers made in 2008, 2003, etc.? I'm keeping an open mind about this, and if a good disambiguation page/pages is/are possible, then I would be okay with that. --
Notecardforfree (
talk)
20:07, 23 January 2017 (UTC)reply
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
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The result of the discussion was retarget to
template:R from name with title. There is clearly no appetite for deletion here, so it's a choice between keeping as is and retargetting. On balance I feel that those proposing retargetting have the slightly stronger arguments, and not every "keep" vote counters those arguments (as opposed to arguments for deletion, which are countered).
Thryduulf (
talk)
11:14, 19 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep Lots of rcat template redirects like this exist, to "funnel" various cases into a small set of generalized rcat templates. If they are removed, then people will fork actual new rcat templates to cover the cases they encounter; we've been merging these when possible rather than forking them, to reduce the number of maintenance categories and rcat templates. Even if there were something questionable about this redir, it would be retargeted to {{R from alternative name}} (to which {{R from other name}} redirects), not deleted. I would argue against that, since the redir in question isn't about alternate names (like
Buster Poindexter for
David Johansen) but about honorific titles being prefixed or suffixed to names, and undesirable article titles constructed with them, e.g.
Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. WP does consider it a neutrality problem to tack these appellations onto names. They are signs of particular groups' respect for or recognition of the individual in question, and it is not universal. The previous commenter is correct that
WP:HONOR includes even "Mr." and "M[r]s."; it's not RfD's job to second-guess that. Also correct that
President Trump is a {{R from name with title}}, because it's an occupational epithet not an honorific one. Per
WP:COMMONSENSE, it's perfectly fine for someone who encounters a redirect from something that might be classified as an honorific, but which doesn't seem present a neutrality issue (I can't think of an example), to use some different rcat template than this one. There is no WP rule that {{R from honorific}}must be used for any redir that anyone might classify as an honorific. The template redir exists because the vast majority of honorific titles will in fact qualify as non-neutral names. —
SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 17:42, 24 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment Should the title be kept at non-neutral name, the description should be updated to include honorifics since right now it's focused on just the negative and pejorative ones.
AngusWOOF (
bark •
sniff)
23:56, 25 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Retarget per Paine. "Non-neutral" usually means pejorative, so the correct target could be somewhat of a surprise. Paine's suggestion mitigates that quite nicely. --
Tavix(
talk)00:14, 26 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep because there is no point at all to proliferating endless variations of templates about redirects. The documentation at
non-neutral could benefit from some wordmithing but the problem is not so bad as to justify forking the template entirely. I would also be okay with a retarget to
Template:R from name with title instead. But deleting or creating as a separate template are out.
Rossami(talk)19:46, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment Before I noticed that I'd already voted, I added another keep here. My rationale was as follows: Keep because
WP:HONORIFIC is a section of a manual-of-style page on this subject. Unless you want to try to get consensus to replace "honorific" on that page with some other term, it seems rather pointless to get rid of this redirect for the reasons given by the nominator.
Nyttend (
talk)
00:44, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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Sharknado 5 Earth Zero (2017) Film
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"Wonky naming" is not a good reason to delete a redirect. Redirects do far more than merely support the search engine. In this case, the redirect overwrote some highly speculative content that would have otherwise had to be deleted per
WP:CRYSTAL. To the extent that the overwritten content might someday be useful if/when the film does meet our
generally accepted inclusion criteria, it's good to have that content available to all users without the bureaucracy of undeleting history. At this point, Sharknado 5 has been officially announced but I can't find any reliable sources confirming the subtitle "Earth Zero". I lean toward keeping it to preempt the re-creation of content that we don't yet want but, given that the full title cannot yet be confirmed, I could also see deleting it per WP:CRYSTAL.
Rossami(talk)21:16, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete for bad naming. Recent sources of the major RS kind list only Sharknado 5 as the working title.
[3][4] whereas Earth 0 subtitle was only posted by Dread Central back in October. Create
Sharknado 5 redirect instead. No indication that it will be named Earth Zero with the Zero spelled out.
AngusWOOF (
bark •
sniff)
05:19, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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Xbox Windows
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These formerly targeted
Xbox One, which seemed to have been done out of
good faith since the console either uses or has been reported to use a version of
Windows in its interface. However, these terms do not look like an "official" name or variation of an official or former name for any product in
Xbox product line.
Steel1943 (
talk)
00:12, 31 December 2016 (UTC)reply
Retarget to
Xbox One system software. The final sentence of the lead of that article says, in bold, "the new system is sometimes referred to as "Windows 10 on Xbox One"." and these redirects seem to me to be very plausible search terms for that. A "redirects here" hatnote pointing to
List of Xbox Live games on Windows 10 would probably be useful too as that's also plausible but less likely.
Thryduulf (
talk)
23:44, 1 January 2017 (UTC)reply
I created this redirect at the time when the Xbox One was announced, and during the keynote it was described that a version of Windows was running on the console. I agree that it should be retargeted to the correct article. --
RaviC (
talk)
17:22, 8 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment. I don't like the retarget suggestion to
Xbox One system software. Check out
Xbox#Comparison, and there are other "Windows" products with the other two consoles. I'm admittedly
WP:CRYSTALBALLing here, but what would happen if the next console also has a Windows(-like) system software? Wouldn't we then just be pushing the problem down the road? If we must keep it in some form, the current target would be best, although I'm ambivalent about keeping it in the first place. --
Tavix(
talk)19:30, 24 January 2017 (UTC)reply
@
Tavix:If the next console also has a windows-like system software, and has an article or section, we can link it and
Xbox One system software with hatnotes and/or create a disambiguation page. We should be retargetting this to the best target for the search term currently, rather than trying to predict what someone will want to read in the future if our crystal balls are working correctly.
Thryduulf (
talk)
18:09, 28 January 2017 (UTC)reply
If that comparison had any actual details about the system software I might agree with you, but it doesn't contain anything significant and the trivial information it does have, which includes absolutely no mention of "Windows" at all, is below the fold so it will confuse and not help.
Xbox One system software on the other hand explains in bold to people using this redirect why they have arrived where they have.
Thryduulf (
talk)
21:05, 28 January 2017 (UTC)reply
which includes absolutely no mention of "Windows" at all. Nope, check again. All three consoles have something called "Windows", and the target mentions that. If a reader uses a vague search term, they should get vague results. --
Tavix(
talk)21:10, 28 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Except it isn't vague! The other windows things are not plausibly referred to as "Xbox Windows", the system software for Xbox One is.
Thryduulf (
talk)
00:07, 29 January 2017 (UTC)reply
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
@
Jax 0677:Degrassi isn't her most "prominent" role anymore – it's merely her first. As time has elapsed since this redirect's creation in 2011, Duarte has had several more prominent parts which are about as notable as Degrassi. Therefore, leaving this directed to Degrassi is now inappropriate, and is confusing to our readership. It terms of what I recommend, this is redirects for "discussion" so I was interested in seeing what others might propose. My personal opinion is that the redirect should now be deleted. While she's had a number of roles to this point, I doubt Duarte would get past
WP:GNG currently – I can try to work something up in Draftspace, if there's any interest, but I've seen cases like Duarte's enough that I'm quite sure she won't clear the notability threshold at this time. (That may change in a year or two, especially if she lands a main role on a TV series.) --
IJBall (
contribs •
talk)
17:05, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep but not necessarily as is. If you are confident that she meets our
generally accepted criteria for biographies, then
be bold and overwrite the redirect with content. No RfD discussion is necessary. There is an argument to REDLINK the title but given the lack of inbound links, I think that is a particularly weak argument in this case.
Rossami(talk)19:36, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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WP:Basic topics
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The result of the discussion was Keep. The arguments that these redirects are useful for attribution and links in old revisions, etc outweigh the speculation that they might be of limited use in the future.
Thryduulf (
talk)
11:25, 19 February 2017 (UTC)reply
I'm weakly in favor of deletion, but I'm not at all sure. My future comments will depend on the agriculture one, which appears to have been created in projectspace as some sort of article directory before being moved to mainspace and eventually being redirected to the existing target. In favor of keeping, these are very old redirects (this one was created by the conversion script in early 2002, demonstrating that it existed in the
UseModWiki days), and normally we don't delete old redirects if they're not significantly harmful. In favor of deleting, these are potentially confusing (projectspace titles generally shouldn't redirect to mainspace titles;
CNRs are unhelpful if there's no reason for a specific one to exist); we keep old titles because people are likely to be linking to them from off-wiki, but nobody links to projectspace pages (except big ones like WP:ANI) from offsite, and an average list wouldn't get this kind of link; and the page apparently existed at this title for only a very short while, because
nost:Wikipedia:Agricultural sciences basic topics returns a
Noarticletext, and the only relevant content is a previous title of the target page. Basically, I don't think that we should be keeping a mildly confusing redirect that really isn't likely to have gotten internal use and has essentially no chance of external use having occurred, but I'm not confident enough to assert that deletion is definitely the right course.
Nyttend (
talk)
03:04, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep all. As you point out, many of these are old redirects. We can check for current inbound links to any given title but we have no way to know how many old links are buried in various pagehistories or scattered in external links. Even if you think the odds are low (and they probably are), the costs of leaving the redirect in place just in case are indistinguishable from zero. I'll also point out that the CNR argument is only a concern for redirects from the article space (where pages are well-monitored and controlled) to private spaces. No such problems exist for redirects from project spaces to the articlespace. Finally, I echo your finding that some of the redirects document the history of pagemoves. Some of those predate the change to our logs that recorded the pagemove in the pagehistory. The redirects themselves may be the only record of the move that still exists.
Rossami(talk)05:17, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete. The nominator lays out a good case for why these aren't being used and are potentially confusing. They might have been useful when they were created, but I fail to see the utility for them 15 years later. --
Tavix(
talk)15:26, 14 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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Either sync them with the same target, or delete them both. Either way, I advocate delete as unclear why these redirects targets either one of their targets.Steel1943 (
talk)
22:38, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose deletion, support synching. Every Wikimedia project that allows fair use must have an "exemption doctrine policy" (see
wmf:Resolution:Licensing policy),
Wikipedia:Non-free content (
WP:NFC) says at the start of the third paragraph "This document serves as the exemption doctrine policy of the English Wikipedia.", and
Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria (
WP:NFCC) says at the top "As per the
Wikimedia Foundation Licensing policy resolution of March 23, 2007, this document serves as the Exemption Doctrine Policy for the English Wikipedia.". So the redirect is explained and quite possibly required - someone searching for the en.wp exemption doctrine policy will likely try one of these redirects first if they don't know we call it something different. I have a slight preference for the latter (WP:NFCC) as this is the actual policy (and is transcluded on WP:NFC), with the remainder of WP:NFC serving as explanation, examples, processes, etc., however I will not stand in the way of the other target if others prefer that.
Thryduulf (
talk)
00:24, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Retarget both to WP:NFC, which according to the WMF licensing policy, is located at
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Non-free_content. WP:NFCC previously claimed to be the EDP (which is probably why one of these redirects went to it), but since the Foundation policy overrules anything to the contrary on our local projects, I've removed that claim.
Nyttend (
talk)
00:58, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Retarget both to WP:NFCC. Chatting with
Masem, I've learnt that the pages have been moved around in the years since the licensing policy was created. At that time, the EDP was located at WP:NFC, but it's since been moved to WP:NFCC, and NFC is now an information about about NFCC. Masem and I have done a little work at clarifying the situation.
Nyttend (
talk)
01:43, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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Wikipedia:Exclusion compliant
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Rationale change: This is a
WP:XNR, but it may be clear. However, is there a clearer, more useful target for this redirect, such as a page in the "Wikipedia:" namespace?
Steel1943 (
talk)
00:52, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep.
WP:XNR is principally about main → project (or more broadly reader-facing to non-reader-facing) namespaces. Redirects out of project space do not generally have the same problems, and I see nothing inherently bad or problematic about Project: to Template: redirects.
Template:Bots is the template that deals with the exclusion (and inclusion) of bots and the documentation of it (displayed on the template page) seems to be the principle place it is explained, e.g.
Wikipedia:Bot policy does not feature the word "exclusion" and
Wikipedia:Bots mentions it only once in passing. I'll leave a note at
Wikipedia:Bot owner's noticeboard about this discussion though.
Thryduulf (
talk)
00:33, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep, since as noted, project-to-template redirects aren't a significant issue per se, and since this is presumably the most relevant page for explaining the project-specific meaning of "exclusion compliant", it shouldn't be modified. No objection to retargeting if a better target is found, or if an explanation is added to the bot policy.
Nyttend (
talk)
00:39, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
It would really help if the bot policy were expanded with a short discussion of this topic, but as I don't know bots, I won't start any proposals; I'd be happy to support a proposal that looked useful, however.
Nyttend (
talk)
01:00, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
I looked at that. My feeling is that someone using this redirect is likely to want to know what exclusion compliant means, and/or find some information about how it works, when it applies/doesn't apply, any policies/guidelines around it - the sort of thing you expect to find on a project space page. The category page does almost none of this, and implicitly points people wanting information to
Template:Bots which is where they will currently arrive directly and will find at least most of what they are looking for.
Thryduulf (
talk)
18:07, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Given that the visible element of the template page consists entirely of the transcluded /doc page that's a rather academic retargetting.
Thryduulf (
talk)
22:14, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep - what Thryduulf said. No opinion yet on the suggestion to refine the redirect to the documentation subpage. On the one hand, it would prevent accidental transclusions. On the other, it makes it a little harder for a novice user to navigate back up to the actual category list.
Rossami(talk)02:48, 9 February 2017 (UTC)reply
<!-- Whether the bot skips articles and other pages with the {{bots}} template. If "no", please provide a reason in the Function details or Discussion.-->
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Twinkle, another anti vandalism tool
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Delete Agree with both of the above editors. This was created by a now-blocked editor who claimed to be a child and had CIR issues.
Meters (
talk)
00:39, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
(
edit conflict) Delete. Relatively recently created unnecessary cross-namespace redirect. If we had an encyclopaedia article about the gadget then I'd have little problem redirecting this there, but we don't.
Thryduulf (
talk)
00:40, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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STiki, another anti vandalism tool
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Delete Agree with both of the above editors. This was created by a now-blocked editor who claimed to be a child and had CIR issues.
Meters (
talk)
00:39, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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Wikipedia:Exclude in print
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WP:XNR that may need to be targeting elsewhere. I would think that there would be a page in the "Wikipedia:" or "Help:" namespace that could explain the content at the redirect's target category page, but I'm not finding one right now. Also, the title could be confused with the term "Wikipedia:Unprintworthy".
Steel1943 (
talk)
22:16, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Don't delete, otherwise known as "keep or retarget". I say this because I'm unclear whether you're considering deletion as an option. If nothing better exists, this should remain as a redirect to its current target, but if anyone can suggest a better target, I'm fine redirecting this there.
Nyttend (
talk)
00:38, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep or retarget exactly per Nyttend. Redirects from the project namespace to project-related categories are completely unproblematic in the general case.
Thryduulf (
talk)
00:42, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
I'm not sure what content you could put at this title other than what is already documented at the top of the Category page. Creating a separate page without good reason strikes me as a bad idea. It would be all-too easy for the two versions to drift out of synch, leaving new readers/users confused as to which page is correct. The redirect keeps everything in one place. If there were a lot more to say, a separate page would make sense but I just don't see that yet.
Rossami(talk)02:42, 9 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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ADW.Launcher
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Delete - this page was created accidentally, by me, almost 15 years ago, back in the days when namespaces were a new invention. There's nothing of value in the page history to justify keeping it.
Enchanter (
talk)
20:27, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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Wikipedia:Wikipedia Globe Logo
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This is current a redirect from project space to article space, there is nothing inherently wrong with such redirects (they don't have the same issues as redirects in the opposite direction), but I'm wondering if
Wikipedia:Wikipedia logos - the project-space page about the history of Wikipedia's logos (including the present globe) would make a better target? It has the advantage of being a project space page like the redirect but is focused very differently to the encyclopaedia article that people currently arrive at (and was I think moved from here originally). The project space page is linked by a self-ref hatnote from the article currently but the article is only a see-also on the project page. Neither page is exclusively about the globe logo.
Thryduulf (
talk)
21:41, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep as is, I think. Deletion is off the table because this was apparently part of a very complicated series of pagemoves of the content now at the current target. Given the dates, some of that history would be lost if the page were deleted and we might well break external links. Re: retargetting... Actually, I can't help wondering why we have two pages in two separate spaces. The WP-space content seems like content that could reasonably be included in the article-space version. Maybe merge? But if there's a reason not to merge (and there might be - I haven't dug through all the talk discussions yet), then I think the better linking on the article-space version argues as the more helpful target.
Rossami(talk)02:35, 9 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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The Legends of the Underzoo (film)
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Delete per
WP:CRYSTAL. There's no film by this name, and I'm not even getting a hit at
IMDb, which means a film isn't even in development. There's no mention anywhere on Wikipedia, so someone searching this isn't going to find anything. --
Tavix(
talk)20:32, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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Matthew Healy
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Some history that the nomination left out: Here is the
AfD discussion which was closed on 2016 Aug 1 as redirect for lack of independent notability. Following the AfD closure, there were repeated attempts to restore the original article, resulting in page-protection. The revert wars appear to have restarted almost immediately after the protection ran out.
Rossami(talk)19:28, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Leave it as redirect until and unless sufficient evidence is presented to justify overturning the AfD discussion. I note specifically that the most recent attempts do not meet that threshold. They are essentially identical to the version that was evaluated in the AfD discussion and found wanting. As a process matter, RfD is not the appropriate forum to re-litigate an AfD decision. If you think the AfD decision was in error, take it to DRV.
Rossami(talk)19:28, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Redirect - I was involved in the original AfD. I see no reason to change this now. The OP hasn't indicated how he is notable outside of the band.
Karst (
talk)
23:05, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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American War
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Too vague to be useful.
List of wars involving the United States would be a better target, but the term implies a specific war, and I don't think any one conflict is best known as "American War" in English—and note that more plausible search terms like American wars already redirect there. The lowercase variant started as an article asserting that the Vietnamese call (what we call) the Vietnam War the "American War", which makes sense, though retargeting there would
WP:SURPRISE. --
BDD (
talk)
20:57, 19 January 2017 (UTC)reply
we have enough different pages of wars, conflicts, interventions, etc. is also confusing - enough for what? There is no limit to the number of pages on any given subject, so it's irrelevant how many already exist - if another redirect or disambiguation page is needed it should exist, regardless of what otherstuff exists. Whether it should exist or not depends only on whether it is a useful search term. On the other hand you could equally mean that we have enough articles to support a disambiguation page.
Thryduulf (
talk)
12:03, 29 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Disambiguate. I don't support deletion since the Vietnam War was definitely also known as the "American War". I'd support a retarget there, but I'm afraid it may be a surprise for someone looking for another war in which the United States was involved. Therefore, I believe disambiguation to be the most elegant solution. --
Tavix(
talk)17:45, 29 January 2017 (UTC)reply
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Bush Quayle
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment:Bush-Quayle was brought up in the discussion, so I'm adding it to the nomination.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –
Uanfala (talk)18:46, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Retarget per Angus. Deleting it would be unhelpful, and since other President-Vice President pairs have redirects, we should treat this one like them.
Nyttend (
talk)
00:04, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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Server 2008 and others
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Disambig. Yes they are all partial title matches, but that is irrelevant as they all referred to by the partial title and so the search term is ambiguous.
Thryduulf (
talk)
11:03, 14 January 2017 (UTC)reply
I would not support disambiguation for there are exactly only two titles that these can refer to, search results are still the best option, while I would not oppose a hatnote. - CHAMPION(
talk) (
contributions) (
logs) 00:53, 16 January 2017 (UTC)reply
I do no think search results are good solution here because there are many irrelevant articles brought up that it's not easy to find the article about what people are likely to be looking for. There is no rule that requires three ambiguous titles before a disambiguation page is required - only that there be two or more uses without a primary topic, which is exactly what we have here.
Thryduulf (
talk)
09:00, 17 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete all as ambiguous. Other companies also produced servers in these years, so I think those are potential targets as well (see, e.g.,
macOS Server). I think the best solution is to let readers sort this out through the search function. FYI, I also added four related redirects to this discussion. --
Notecardforfree (
talk)
02:27, 16 January 2017 (UTC)reply
@
Notecardforfree: fine in theory, but the search results include so many irrelevant results that it's very difficult for readers to sort it out that way. Our goal is to make it easier for people to navigate the encyclopaedia not harder. If other articles are also known by this phrase then the correct thing to do is add them to the dab page.
Thryduulf (
talk)
23:38, 22 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Thryduulf, I'm not opposed to the idea of disambiguation in principle, but I'm not sure how you would feasibly accomplish disambiguation here. Would you create a
List of servers? We have
List of display servers and
List of FTP server software, though I don't know enough about computer servers to determine whether either would be an appropriate place to disambiguate these topics. Alternatively, would you disambiguate all servers made in 2008, 2003, etc.? I'm keeping an open mind about this, and if a good disambiguation page/pages is/are possible, then I would be okay with that. --
Notecardforfree (
talk)
20:07, 23 January 2017 (UTC)reply
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
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The result of the discussion was retarget to
template:R from name with title. There is clearly no appetite for deletion here, so it's a choice between keeping as is and retargetting. On balance I feel that those proposing retargetting have the slightly stronger arguments, and not every "keep" vote counters those arguments (as opposed to arguments for deletion, which are countered).
Thryduulf (
talk)
11:14, 19 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep Lots of rcat template redirects like this exist, to "funnel" various cases into a small set of generalized rcat templates. If they are removed, then people will fork actual new rcat templates to cover the cases they encounter; we've been merging these when possible rather than forking them, to reduce the number of maintenance categories and rcat templates. Even if there were something questionable about this redir, it would be retargeted to {{R from alternative name}} (to which {{R from other name}} redirects), not deleted. I would argue against that, since the redir in question isn't about alternate names (like
Buster Poindexter for
David Johansen) but about honorific titles being prefixed or suffixed to names, and undesirable article titles constructed with them, e.g.
Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. WP does consider it a neutrality problem to tack these appellations onto names. They are signs of particular groups' respect for or recognition of the individual in question, and it is not universal. The previous commenter is correct that
WP:HONOR includes even "Mr." and "M[r]s."; it's not RfD's job to second-guess that. Also correct that
President Trump is a {{R from name with title}}, because it's an occupational epithet not an honorific one. Per
WP:COMMONSENSE, it's perfectly fine for someone who encounters a redirect from something that might be classified as an honorific, but which doesn't seem present a neutrality issue (I can't think of an example), to use some different rcat template than this one. There is no WP rule that {{R from honorific}}must be used for any redir that anyone might classify as an honorific. The template redir exists because the vast majority of honorific titles will in fact qualify as non-neutral names. —
SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 17:42, 24 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment Should the title be kept at non-neutral name, the description should be updated to include honorifics since right now it's focused on just the negative and pejorative ones.
AngusWOOF (
bark •
sniff)
23:56, 25 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Retarget per Paine. "Non-neutral" usually means pejorative, so the correct target could be somewhat of a surprise. Paine's suggestion mitigates that quite nicely. --
Tavix(
talk)00:14, 26 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep because there is no point at all to proliferating endless variations of templates about redirects. The documentation at
non-neutral could benefit from some wordmithing but the problem is not so bad as to justify forking the template entirely. I would also be okay with a retarget to
Template:R from name with title instead. But deleting or creating as a separate template are out.
Rossami(talk)19:46, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment Before I noticed that I'd already voted, I added another keep here. My rationale was as follows: Keep because
WP:HONORIFIC is a section of a manual-of-style page on this subject. Unless you want to try to get consensus to replace "honorific" on that page with some other term, it seems rather pointless to get rid of this redirect for the reasons given by the nominator.
Nyttend (
talk)
00:44, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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Sharknado 5 Earth Zero (2017) Film
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"Wonky naming" is not a good reason to delete a redirect. Redirects do far more than merely support the search engine. In this case, the redirect overwrote some highly speculative content that would have otherwise had to be deleted per
WP:CRYSTAL. To the extent that the overwritten content might someday be useful if/when the film does meet our
generally accepted inclusion criteria, it's good to have that content available to all users without the bureaucracy of undeleting history. At this point, Sharknado 5 has been officially announced but I can't find any reliable sources confirming the subtitle "Earth Zero". I lean toward keeping it to preempt the re-creation of content that we don't yet want but, given that the full title cannot yet be confirmed, I could also see deleting it per WP:CRYSTAL.
Rossami(talk)21:16, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete for bad naming. Recent sources of the major RS kind list only Sharknado 5 as the working title.
[3][4] whereas Earth 0 subtitle was only posted by Dread Central back in October. Create
Sharknado 5 redirect instead. No indication that it will be named Earth Zero with the Zero spelled out.
AngusWOOF (
bark •
sniff)
05:19, 6 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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Xbox Windows
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These formerly targeted
Xbox One, which seemed to have been done out of
good faith since the console either uses or has been reported to use a version of
Windows in its interface. However, these terms do not look like an "official" name or variation of an official or former name for any product in
Xbox product line.
Steel1943 (
talk)
00:12, 31 December 2016 (UTC)reply
Retarget to
Xbox One system software. The final sentence of the lead of that article says, in bold, "the new system is sometimes referred to as "Windows 10 on Xbox One"." and these redirects seem to me to be very plausible search terms for that. A "redirects here" hatnote pointing to
List of Xbox Live games on Windows 10 would probably be useful too as that's also plausible but less likely.
Thryduulf (
talk)
23:44, 1 January 2017 (UTC)reply
I created this redirect at the time when the Xbox One was announced, and during the keynote it was described that a version of Windows was running on the console. I agree that it should be retargeted to the correct article. --
RaviC (
talk)
17:22, 8 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment. I don't like the retarget suggestion to
Xbox One system software. Check out
Xbox#Comparison, and there are other "Windows" products with the other two consoles. I'm admittedly
WP:CRYSTALBALLing here, but what would happen if the next console also has a Windows(-like) system software? Wouldn't we then just be pushing the problem down the road? If we must keep it in some form, the current target would be best, although I'm ambivalent about keeping it in the first place. --
Tavix(
talk)19:30, 24 January 2017 (UTC)reply
@
Tavix:If the next console also has a windows-like system software, and has an article or section, we can link it and
Xbox One system software with hatnotes and/or create a disambiguation page. We should be retargetting this to the best target for the search term currently, rather than trying to predict what someone will want to read in the future if our crystal balls are working correctly.
Thryduulf (
talk)
18:09, 28 January 2017 (UTC)reply
If that comparison had any actual details about the system software I might agree with you, but it doesn't contain anything significant and the trivial information it does have, which includes absolutely no mention of "Windows" at all, is below the fold so it will confuse and not help.
Xbox One system software on the other hand explains in bold to people using this redirect why they have arrived where they have.
Thryduulf (
talk)
21:05, 28 January 2017 (UTC)reply
which includes absolutely no mention of "Windows" at all. Nope, check again. All three consoles have something called "Windows", and the target mentions that. If a reader uses a vague search term, they should get vague results. --
Tavix(
talk)21:10, 28 January 2017 (UTC)reply
Except it isn't vague! The other windows things are not plausibly referred to as "Xbox Windows", the system software for Xbox One is.
Thryduulf (
talk)
00:07, 29 January 2017 (UTC)reply
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
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@
Jax 0677:Degrassi isn't her most "prominent" role anymore – it's merely her first. As time has elapsed since this redirect's creation in 2011, Duarte has had several more prominent parts which are about as notable as Degrassi. Therefore, leaving this directed to Degrassi is now inappropriate, and is confusing to our readership. It terms of what I recommend, this is redirects for "discussion" so I was interested in seeing what others might propose. My personal opinion is that the redirect should now be deleted. While she's had a number of roles to this point, I doubt Duarte would get past
WP:GNG currently – I can try to work something up in Draftspace, if there's any interest, but I've seen cases like Duarte's enough that I'm quite sure she won't clear the notability threshold at this time. (That may change in a year or two, especially if she lands a main role on a TV series.) --
IJBall (
contribs •
talk)
17:05, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep but not necessarily as is. If you are confident that she meets our
generally accepted criteria for biographies, then
be bold and overwrite the redirect with content. No RfD discussion is necessary. There is an argument to REDLINK the title but given the lack of inbound links, I think that is a particularly weak argument in this case.
Rossami(talk)19:36, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
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WP:Basic topics
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The result of the discussion was Keep. The arguments that these redirects are useful for attribution and links in old revisions, etc outweigh the speculation that they might be of limited use in the future.
Thryduulf (
talk)
11:25, 19 February 2017 (UTC)reply
I'm weakly in favor of deletion, but I'm not at all sure. My future comments will depend on the agriculture one, which appears to have been created in projectspace as some sort of article directory before being moved to mainspace and eventually being redirected to the existing target. In favor of keeping, these are very old redirects (this one was created by the conversion script in early 2002, demonstrating that it existed in the
UseModWiki days), and normally we don't delete old redirects if they're not significantly harmful. In favor of deleting, these are potentially confusing (projectspace titles generally shouldn't redirect to mainspace titles;
CNRs are unhelpful if there's no reason for a specific one to exist); we keep old titles because people are likely to be linking to them from off-wiki, but nobody links to projectspace pages (except big ones like WP:ANI) from offsite, and an average list wouldn't get this kind of link; and the page apparently existed at this title for only a very short while, because
nost:Wikipedia:Agricultural sciences basic topics returns a
Noarticletext, and the only relevant content is a previous title of the target page. Basically, I don't think that we should be keeping a mildly confusing redirect that really isn't likely to have gotten internal use and has essentially no chance of external use having occurred, but I'm not confident enough to assert that deletion is definitely the right course.
Nyttend (
talk)
03:04, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep all. As you point out, many of these are old redirects. We can check for current inbound links to any given title but we have no way to know how many old links are buried in various pagehistories or scattered in external links. Even if you think the odds are low (and they probably are), the costs of leaving the redirect in place just in case are indistinguishable from zero. I'll also point out that the CNR argument is only a concern for redirects from the article space (where pages are well-monitored and controlled) to private spaces. No such problems exist for redirects from project spaces to the articlespace. Finally, I echo your finding that some of the redirects document the history of pagemoves. Some of those predate the change to our logs that recorded the pagemove in the pagehistory. The redirects themselves may be the only record of the move that still exists.
Rossami(talk)05:17, 5 February 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete. The nominator lays out a good case for why these aren't being used and are potentially confusing. They might have been useful when they were created, but I fail to see the utility for them 15 years later. --
Tavix(
talk)15:26, 14 February 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.