This is a
failed proposal.
Consensus for its implementation was not established within a reasonable period of time. If you want to revive discussion, please use
the talk page or initiate a thread at
the village pump. |
As it states at Wikipedia:List guideline, lists have three main purposes:
All formatting and naming conventions of lists are contained at Wikipedia:List guideline.
Just as Wikipedia:Categorization of people covers the use of categories, this guideline covers the similar categorization of lists of people. Categories and lists are similar but separate entities, fulfilling two separate functions at Wikipedia.
General lists by race, ethnicity, and sexuality are permitted, with the following considerations:
Dedicated group-subject lists, such as List of Jewish Nobel laureates or List of African American musicians, should only be created where that combination is itself recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right. You should be able to write a substantial and encyclopedic head article (not just a list) for the list — if this cannot be done, then the list should be seen as not valid. Please note that this does not mean that the head article must already exist before a list can be created, but it must be at least possible to create one.
Generally, this means that the basic criterion for such a list is whether the topic has already been established as academically or culturally significant by external sources. If this criterion has not been met, then the list essentially constitutes original research. Although there are exceptions, this will usually mean that lists relating to social or cultural subjects are more likely to be valid than others.
For example, African American literature is a distinct literary genre, and therefore a List of African-American writers is valid. However, there isn't a comparable phenomenon of African American economists, so a list for "African American economists" should not be created.
Similarly, an "(ethnicity) politicians" list should only be created if politicians of that ethnic background somehow constitute a distinct and identifiable group with a specific cultural and political context. Thus, a "Native American politicians" list would be valid; a "English-American politicians" list might not be. The basis for creating such a list is not the number of individuals who could potentially be filed in the group, but whether there's a specific cultural context for the grouping beyond the mere fact that politicians of that ethnic background exist.
Whether such a grouping constitutes a positive or negative portrayal of the racial or sexual group in question is also not, in and of itself, a valid criterion for determining the legitimacy of a category. At all times, the bottom line remains can a valid, encyclopedic head article be written for this grouping?
Concerns about the POV status of a particular list must be weighed against the fact that not having such a list may also be a potentially unacceptable POV. Your personal feelings should not enter into the matter — if a list meets the criteria defined above, then it is permitted, and if the list does not meet the criteria, then it is not permitted. This is the only way in which the myriad points of view on the matter can realistically be reconciled into a relatively neutral position.
Be aware as well that under these criteria, lists may change over time. Something that is not currently a valid list may become one in the future. A list's inappropriateness now is not necessarily a valid reason to not have the list in the future if social circumstances change. The criterion of whether an encyclopedic article is possible should be the gauge — if a new field of social or cultural study emerges in the future and lends itself to an encyclopedic article, the related lists will then become valid even if they have previously been deleted.
This is a
failed proposal.
Consensus for its implementation was not established within a reasonable period of time. If you want to revive discussion, please use
the talk page or initiate a thread at
the village pump. |
As it states at Wikipedia:List guideline, lists have three main purposes:
All formatting and naming conventions of lists are contained at Wikipedia:List guideline.
Just as Wikipedia:Categorization of people covers the use of categories, this guideline covers the similar categorization of lists of people. Categories and lists are similar but separate entities, fulfilling two separate functions at Wikipedia.
General lists by race, ethnicity, and sexuality are permitted, with the following considerations:
Dedicated group-subject lists, such as List of Jewish Nobel laureates or List of African American musicians, should only be created where that combination is itself recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right. You should be able to write a substantial and encyclopedic head article (not just a list) for the list — if this cannot be done, then the list should be seen as not valid. Please note that this does not mean that the head article must already exist before a list can be created, but it must be at least possible to create one.
Generally, this means that the basic criterion for such a list is whether the topic has already been established as academically or culturally significant by external sources. If this criterion has not been met, then the list essentially constitutes original research. Although there are exceptions, this will usually mean that lists relating to social or cultural subjects are more likely to be valid than others.
For example, African American literature is a distinct literary genre, and therefore a List of African-American writers is valid. However, there isn't a comparable phenomenon of African American economists, so a list for "African American economists" should not be created.
Similarly, an "(ethnicity) politicians" list should only be created if politicians of that ethnic background somehow constitute a distinct and identifiable group with a specific cultural and political context. Thus, a "Native American politicians" list would be valid; a "English-American politicians" list might not be. The basis for creating such a list is not the number of individuals who could potentially be filed in the group, but whether there's a specific cultural context for the grouping beyond the mere fact that politicians of that ethnic background exist.
Whether such a grouping constitutes a positive or negative portrayal of the racial or sexual group in question is also not, in and of itself, a valid criterion for determining the legitimacy of a category. At all times, the bottom line remains can a valid, encyclopedic head article be written for this grouping?
Concerns about the POV status of a particular list must be weighed against the fact that not having such a list may also be a potentially unacceptable POV. Your personal feelings should not enter into the matter — if a list meets the criteria defined above, then it is permitted, and if the list does not meet the criteria, then it is not permitted. This is the only way in which the myriad points of view on the matter can realistically be reconciled into a relatively neutral position.
Be aware as well that under these criteria, lists may change over time. Something that is not currently a valid list may become one in the future. A list's inappropriateness now is not necessarily a valid reason to not have the list in the future if social circumstances change. The criterion of whether an encyclopedic article is possible should be the gauge — if a new field of social or cultural study emerges in the future and lends itself to an encyclopedic article, the related lists will then become valid even if they have previously been deleted.