This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because it just passed its GAN, and I would like to see it become a featured article.
ZabMilenko and I have been working on it since late April, and
Sasata, the GA reviewer, gave me a few good tips already. Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.
Thanks, Little Mountain 5 22:01, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
Ruhrfisch comments: I really enjoyed this article, but think it needs some work before FAC. With that in mind, here are some suggestions for improvement.
- I like the lead image, but it took me a while to find Lower Table Rock in it. Since the article is about both rock formations, I think the lead image should show both. The only image in the article that currently does this is
File:Upper and Lower Table Rock Terrain.png, which I like a lot. Not sure it is the best lead image, but it seems better to me than the current one (which is fine for inclusion in the article).
- Fixed.
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- Can the caption identify them (left and right)? Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- Fixed.
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- In the second sentence of the lead I would make it clearer that it was a combination of volcanic action and erosion that formed the table rocks
- Units should have the same number of significant figures, but there are 4 for acres and only 2 for square kilometers in while the Bureau of Land Management is responsible for 1,280 acres (5.2 km2).
- In the lead The rocks have been inhabited for at least 15,000 years by the Takelma people. makes it sound like they still love there, but they were forcibly removed in 1856. I would either say something like The rocks were inhabited for at least 15,000 years by the Takelma people.
- Avoid words like currently - instead give the year or date in things like The rocks are presently home to over 70 species of animals and 340 species of plants, which includes over 200 species of wildflowers.
- Would it help if I removed 'presently' from these sentences? Most don't really have a date.
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- I think in the lead it would be OK - if the sentence is based on one ref, perhaps the year of the ref could be included? Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- Would it help if I removed 'presently' from these sentences? Most don't really have a date.
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- I would mention the vernal pools in the lead - otherwise the fairy shrimp living on volcanic rocks seems very odd
- Where was the post office? My guess is it was not on top of either table rock, but that should be clarified
- In the Geology section I would make it clear that erosion has continued (otherwise how does a 100 foot thick lava layer lead to a table rock 800 feet above the valley floor?)
- I would specify which is the pit - presumably the two caves and one mine can be walked into and the other mine is the pit? Three are large enough to walk into, and average 8 feet (2.4 m) wide. One is a small pit, dropping 30 feet (9.1 m) vertically into a pond of water.[4]
- I'd guess that it's the cave that's the pit, but the source doesn't say which one is which, so that would be
original research. :/
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- OK, no problem Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- I'd guess that it's the cave that's the pit, but the source doesn't say which one is which, so that would be
original research. :/
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- Any idea waht the Takelma names for the rocks meant?
- Not really, Titanakh might mean 'little Indian plums'? Page 76, 84 on the PDF Little Mountain 5 17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- In the Flora and fauna section I would include brief descriptions of each of the habitats (a sentence or two) so people know what chapparal or whatever is
- Fixed.
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- I don't really see this - for example, I would say something like "Oak savannah is a type of grassland with oak trees as the main tree species. This type of savannah depends on periodic fires, which historically were the result of lightening or wildfire or were even set by Native Americans." (stealing from the
Oak savannah article lead). I would do this for the others too.
Ruhrfisch
><>°°
11:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- I reworded it some. Little Mountain 5 02:38, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
- I don't really see this - for example, I would say something like "Oak savannah is a type of grassland with oak trees as the main tree species. This type of savannah depends on periodic fires, which historically were the result of lightening or wildfire or were even set by Native Americans." (stealing from the
Oak savannah article lead). I would do this for the others too.
Ruhrfisch
><>°°
11:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- Fixed.
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- I would call it "Mounded prairie and vernal pools" as the other subsections start with the habitat
- When did the BLM acquire the land it owns there?
- I've sent an email to the BLM about this. Little Mountain 5 17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- Some of the trail history is repeated in trails section
- Do you think that info would be better in the history section or the trails section?
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- I reread it and it seems OK on second thought - Boy Scout is generally captitalized. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- Do you think that info would be better in the history section or the trails section?
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- Watch
WP:OVERLINKing - generally a term should be linked at most three times - the lead, an inffobox, and the first occurrence in the text
- I'll get to this later. Little Mountain 5 17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 04:12, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- Your comments were very useful, thanks!
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- MAde replies above - could you please remove the graphics {{
fixed}} and replace them with something like fixed (as it slows the loading of the PR page to use graphics)? Thanks,
Ruhrfisch
><>°°
11:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- Sure.
Little
Mountain
5
22:30, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- I think I've fixed just about everything you suggested. What do you think about it now? Thanks, Little Mountain 5 14:38, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
- Sure.
Little
Mountain
5
22:30, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- MAde replies above - could you please remove the graphics {{
fixed}} and replace them with something like fixed (as it slows the loading of the PR page to use graphics)? Thanks,
Ruhrfisch
><>°°
11:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
Second look here is what I noticed one a second look.
- Sentence makes no sense as written (should "in spring" be "and spring" instead?): Vernal pools fill on the top of the plateaus in the winter in spring due to the impermeable andesite located there.
- Whoops, fixed. Little Mountain 5 16:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
- The subject of this sentence is "One species" which is singular, but the verbs are plural One species of wildflower called the dwarf woolly meadowfoam grow[s] around these pools, and [is?] are endemic to the rocks.
- The last sentence of the third paragraph of the lead doesn't really fit with the paragraph (it is on hiking, the rest of the paragraph is on ecology). The fourth paragraph is quite short - could the hiking sentence be moved there? Perhaps with something on the history of the trails?
- I don't think that would really fit, but I've split that last sentence off and made a new paragraph instead. Little Mountain 5 16:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
- I would suggest changes here
Both plateaus are[Each plateau is] shaped roughly like a horseshoe, due to the ancient meanders of the canyon the[y] sit upon.[4][6][7] - similarly this could be tightened
In fact,four overlapping ecological regions have been identified, with considerable differences in the variety of wildlife found in eachone. - Suggest changes here too - original is The andesite cap itself is covered by the fourth region known as mounded prairie, created when the caps were slowly eroded by the freezing and thawing of water that seeped into the ground (ice erosion). This created a layer of mounded soil.[4][11] and it might read better as something like The andesite cap is covered by the fourth region, mounded prairie. This formed when the caps were slowly eroded by the freezing and thawing of water that seeped into the ground (ice erosion), which created a layer of mounded soil.[4][11]
- That sounds a lot better, fixed. Little Mountain 5 16:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
- Can these two sentences be combined Three are large enough to walk into, and average 8 feet (2.4 m) wide. One is a small pit, dropping 30 feet (9.1 m) vertically into a pond of water.[4]
- Combined. Little Mountain 5 16:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
- OK, there's a look at the first two sections (lead and geology). I notice that the Flora and fauna subsections still don't introduce what they are in a sentence or two. SO for example I would start the Oak savannah section with something like Oak savannah is a type of grassland with oak trees as the main tree species. It depends on periodic fires, which historically were the result of lightening or wildfire or were even set by Native Americans. White oak, ponderosa pine, and multiple species of grasses are the most common vegetation found in the oak savanna on the lower slopes of the Table Rocks.[4][29] ... I think this needs a bit more polish before FAC, though it is close.
Ruhrfisch
><>°°
03:09, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, I didn't realize you meant the subsections... that makes a lot more sense. I think I've fixed it. Little Mountain 5 16:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
A few more points, looking at refs.
- The book The Table Rocks of Jackson County : islands in the sky is 143 pages and is cited as ref 4. My guess is at FAC that someone will want the refs to that to be more specific (give page numbers). You probably could do it by chapters.
- I actually borrowed that book, and don't have it any more. Hopefully I'll be able to get it again, but I'm not sure. :/ Little Mountain 5 16:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
- Refs 39 to 43 are from the 'Mail Tribune newspaper and as such the paper's name should be italicized - put it in the work field it in cite news (this is done correctly for ref 2)
- Also make sure refs keep the capitalization of the original - so ref 41 is listed as "Medford man dies in table rock fall", but the original headline is "Medford man dies in Table Rock fall".
OK, I am done for now, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 15:11, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
- Thank you very much for taking the time to look over the article again. Great suggestions! Little Mountain 5 16:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because it just passed its GAN, and I would like to see it become a featured article.
ZabMilenko and I have been working on it since late April, and
Sasata, the GA reviewer, gave me a few good tips already. Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.
Thanks, Little Mountain 5 22:01, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
Ruhrfisch comments: I really enjoyed this article, but think it needs some work before FAC. With that in mind, here are some suggestions for improvement.
- I like the lead image, but it took me a while to find Lower Table Rock in it. Since the article is about both rock formations, I think the lead image should show both. The only image in the article that currently does this is
File:Upper and Lower Table Rock Terrain.png, which I like a lot. Not sure it is the best lead image, but it seems better to me than the current one (which is fine for inclusion in the article).
- Fixed.
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- Can the caption identify them (left and right)? Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- Fixed.
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- In the second sentence of the lead I would make it clearer that it was a combination of volcanic action and erosion that formed the table rocks
- Units should have the same number of significant figures, but there are 4 for acres and only 2 for square kilometers in while the Bureau of Land Management is responsible for 1,280 acres (5.2 km2).
- In the lead The rocks have been inhabited for at least 15,000 years by the Takelma people. makes it sound like they still love there, but they were forcibly removed in 1856. I would either say something like The rocks were inhabited for at least 15,000 years by the Takelma people.
- Avoid words like currently - instead give the year or date in things like The rocks are presently home to over 70 species of animals and 340 species of plants, which includes over 200 species of wildflowers.
- Would it help if I removed 'presently' from these sentences? Most don't really have a date.
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- I think in the lead it would be OK - if the sentence is based on one ref, perhaps the year of the ref could be included? Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- Would it help if I removed 'presently' from these sentences? Most don't really have a date.
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- I would mention the vernal pools in the lead - otherwise the fairy shrimp living on volcanic rocks seems very odd
- Where was the post office? My guess is it was not on top of either table rock, but that should be clarified
- In the Geology section I would make it clear that erosion has continued (otherwise how does a 100 foot thick lava layer lead to a table rock 800 feet above the valley floor?)
- I would specify which is the pit - presumably the two caves and one mine can be walked into and the other mine is the pit? Three are large enough to walk into, and average 8 feet (2.4 m) wide. One is a small pit, dropping 30 feet (9.1 m) vertically into a pond of water.[4]
- I'd guess that it's the cave that's the pit, but the source doesn't say which one is which, so that would be
original research. :/
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- OK, no problem Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- I'd guess that it's the cave that's the pit, but the source doesn't say which one is which, so that would be
original research. :/
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- Any idea waht the Takelma names for the rocks meant?
- Not really, Titanakh might mean 'little Indian plums'? Page 76, 84 on the PDF Little Mountain 5 17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- In the Flora and fauna section I would include brief descriptions of each of the habitats (a sentence or two) so people know what chapparal or whatever is
- Fixed.
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- I don't really see this - for example, I would say something like "Oak savannah is a type of grassland with oak trees as the main tree species. This type of savannah depends on periodic fires, which historically were the result of lightening or wildfire or were even set by Native Americans." (stealing from the
Oak savannah article lead). I would do this for the others too.
Ruhrfisch
><>°°
11:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- I reworded it some. Little Mountain 5 02:38, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
- I don't really see this - for example, I would say something like "Oak savannah is a type of grassland with oak trees as the main tree species. This type of savannah depends on periodic fires, which historically were the result of lightening or wildfire or were even set by Native Americans." (stealing from the
Oak savannah article lead). I would do this for the others too.
Ruhrfisch
><>°°
11:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- Fixed.
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- I would call it "Mounded prairie and vernal pools" as the other subsections start with the habitat
- When did the BLM acquire the land it owns there?
- I've sent an email to the BLM about this. Little Mountain 5 17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- Some of the trail history is repeated in trails section
- Do you think that info would be better in the history section or the trails section?
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- I reread it and it seems OK on second thought - Boy Scout is generally captitalized. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- Do you think that info would be better in the history section or the trails section?
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- Watch
WP:OVERLINKing - generally a term should be linked at most three times - the lead, an inffobox, and the first occurrence in the text
- I'll get to this later. Little Mountain 5 17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 04:12, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- Your comments were very useful, thanks!
Little
Mountain
5
17:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
- MAde replies above - could you please remove the graphics {{
fixed}} and replace them with something like fixed (as it slows the loading of the PR page to use graphics)? Thanks,
Ruhrfisch
><>°°
11:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- Sure.
Little
Mountain
5
22:30, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- I think I've fixed just about everything you suggested. What do you think about it now? Thanks, Little Mountain 5 14:38, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
- Sure.
Little
Mountain
5
22:30, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- MAde replies above - could you please remove the graphics {{
fixed}} and replace them with something like fixed (as it slows the loading of the PR page to use graphics)? Thanks,
Ruhrfisch
><>°°
11:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
Second look here is what I noticed one a second look.
- Sentence makes no sense as written (should "in spring" be "and spring" instead?): Vernal pools fill on the top of the plateaus in the winter in spring due to the impermeable andesite located there.
- Whoops, fixed. Little Mountain 5 16:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
- The subject of this sentence is "One species" which is singular, but the verbs are plural One species of wildflower called the dwarf woolly meadowfoam grow[s] around these pools, and [is?] are endemic to the rocks.
- The last sentence of the third paragraph of the lead doesn't really fit with the paragraph (it is on hiking, the rest of the paragraph is on ecology). The fourth paragraph is quite short - could the hiking sentence be moved there? Perhaps with something on the history of the trails?
- I don't think that would really fit, but I've split that last sentence off and made a new paragraph instead. Little Mountain 5 16:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
- I would suggest changes here
Both plateaus are[Each plateau is] shaped roughly like a horseshoe, due to the ancient meanders of the canyon the[y] sit upon.[4][6][7] - similarly this could be tightened
In fact,four overlapping ecological regions have been identified, with considerable differences in the variety of wildlife found in eachone. - Suggest changes here too - original is The andesite cap itself is covered by the fourth region known as mounded prairie, created when the caps were slowly eroded by the freezing and thawing of water that seeped into the ground (ice erosion). This created a layer of mounded soil.[4][11] and it might read better as something like The andesite cap is covered by the fourth region, mounded prairie. This formed when the caps were slowly eroded by the freezing and thawing of water that seeped into the ground (ice erosion), which created a layer of mounded soil.[4][11]
- That sounds a lot better, fixed. Little Mountain 5 16:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
- Can these two sentences be combined Three are large enough to walk into, and average 8 feet (2.4 m) wide. One is a small pit, dropping 30 feet (9.1 m) vertically into a pond of water.[4]
- Combined. Little Mountain 5 16:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
- OK, there's a look at the first two sections (lead and geology). I notice that the Flora and fauna subsections still don't introduce what they are in a sentence or two. SO for example I would start the Oak savannah section with something like Oak savannah is a type of grassland with oak trees as the main tree species. It depends on periodic fires, which historically were the result of lightening or wildfire or were even set by Native Americans. White oak, ponderosa pine, and multiple species of grasses are the most common vegetation found in the oak savanna on the lower slopes of the Table Rocks.[4][29] ... I think this needs a bit more polish before FAC, though it is close.
Ruhrfisch
><>°°
03:09, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, I didn't realize you meant the subsections... that makes a lot more sense. I think I've fixed it. Little Mountain 5 16:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
A few more points, looking at refs.
- The book The Table Rocks of Jackson County : islands in the sky is 143 pages and is cited as ref 4. My guess is at FAC that someone will want the refs to that to be more specific (give page numbers). You probably could do it by chapters.
- I actually borrowed that book, and don't have it any more. Hopefully I'll be able to get it again, but I'm not sure. :/ Little Mountain 5 16:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
- Refs 39 to 43 are from the 'Mail Tribune newspaper and as such the paper's name should be italicized - put it in the work field it in cite news (this is done correctly for ref 2)
- Also make sure refs keep the capitalization of the original - so ref 41 is listed as "Medford man dies in table rock fall", but the original headline is "Medford man dies in Table Rock fall".
OK, I am done for now, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 15:11, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
- Thank you very much for taking the time to look over the article again. Great suggestions! Little Mountain 5 16:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)