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This peer review discussion has been closed.
This article is a sequel to
Tchaikovsky and the Five, which was recently listed as FA. Like its predecessor, it is on a topic known about Russian classical music but seldom duscussed in detail in the West; unlike its predecessor, it talks about a later, more positive relationship
Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky had with his peers, one that was mutually beneficial in terms of artistic growth. I've listed this article for peer review because I have taken it as far as possible on my own in terms of scope and quality of writing. I really need input on how this article can be improved and taken to FA quality. Please note: Alt text has not been provided for all images because the images used in the article are still being finalized. Thanks very much for your attention, and I look forward to your comments. BTW, special thanks to
Brianboulton for his encouraging me to create this article, and to
Ruhrfisch for the very cool lead image, which he provided.
Jonyungk (
talk)
18:14, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Crimsonfox's Comments
I really enjoyed reading the article and wasn't expecting it so I hope my comments help. Browser crashed first time trying to submit this so I may have missed some things I originally put, I'll have another quick check later. CrimsonFox talk 03:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Brianboulton comments:-
I have so far been concentrating on the lead. As written I think attention is needed in a number of areas, mainly:-
As a result I have formulated a slightly shorter lead which is given below. However, I am still confused by the third paragraph, even though I've modified it slightly. Is it saying that the two main legacies of Russian music—Saint Petersburg and Moscow—were supplemented by a third, perhaps more unifying legacy, that derived from Tchaikovsky's association with the Belyayev circle and of which Rachmaninov and the others mentioned are representative? That's how I read it but I may be wrong - it needs further clarification.
In November 1887, Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky arrived in Saint Petersburg, Russia, to attend the Russian Symphony Concerts, a series devoted exclusively to music of Russian composers. Among works featured were the first complete performance of the final version of Tchaikovsky's First Symphony, and the premiere of the revised version of Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov's Third Symphony. Rimsky-Korsakov, with Alexander Glazunov, Anatoly Lyadov and several other nationalistically-minded composers and musicians, had formed a group called the Belyayev circle. This group was named after timber merchant Mitrofan Belyayev, an amateur musician who became an influential music patron and publisher after he had taken an interest in Glazunov's work. During Tchaikovsky's visit to Saint Petersburg he spent much time in the company of these men; as a result, the somewhat fraught relationship he had previously endured with the nationalistic composer group known collectively as The Five would eventually meld into something more harmonious. This relationship would last until Tchaikovsky's death in late 1893.
By 1887, Tchaikovsky was firmly established as one of the leading composers in Russia. A favorite of Tsar Alexander III, he was widely regarded as a national treasure. He was in demand as a guest conductor in Russia and Western Europe, and in 1890 would visit the United States in the same capacity. By contrast, the fortunes of The Five had waned, and the group had long since dispersed. Modest Mussorgsky, who had remained the most antipathetic of the group toward Tchaikovsky and his music, was dead, as was Alexander Borodin. César Cui, the composer and critic who continued to write negative reviews of Tchaikovsky's music, was seen by the composer as merely a critical irritant. Mily Balakirev, the former leader of the group, lived in isolation and was confined to the musical sidelines. Of The Five, only Rimsky-Korsakov remained fully active as a composer. Now a professor of musical composition and orchestration at the Saint Petersburg Conservatory, he had become a firm believer in the Western-based compositional training that had been once frowned upon by the group.
Tchaikovsky's friendship with Glazunov, Lyadov and Rimsky-Korsakov gave him increased confidence in his own abilities as a composer. However, there remained friction between composers based in Saint Petersburg, then the political and cultural capital of Russia, and those based in Moscow, which also boasted a music conservatory at which Tchaikovsky had formerly taught. Because of this inter-city rivalry, two distinct Russian musical legacies emerged together with a third, less distinct one, from the members of the Belyayev circle. Among those influenced by Tchaikovsky in Moscow were Sergei Rachmaninoff and Sergei Taneyev. Anton Arensky, a former pupil of Rimsky-Korsakov, also received musical advice and encouragement from Tchaikovsky; his works varied in influence between these two men.
One minor point in the first paragraph: which is more correct, "a group called the Belyayev circle" or "a group which became known as the Belyayev circle"?
If you can respond on these points, I'll continue my review into the body of the article. Brianboulton ( talk) 16:40, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
Continuing:-
Will conclude this later. Brianboulton ( talk) 16:35, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
Concluding
I hope these final remarks are helpful. I haven't had time to do a line-by-line review of this part of the article, though no obvious problems stand out. Overall this has been a fascinating insight into the politics of 19th century Russian music, an area on which I previously had little or no knowledge, and on which I am now much better informed. Brianboulton ( talk) 23:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
Awadewit's comments
I've read the article once now - I'll reread and then post my comments.
Awadewit (
talk)
05:03, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
I hope these are helpful - I think it is the lead that needs the most work. Awadewit ( talk) 01:23, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
Ruhrfisch comments: Very nice article and lovely lead image ;-) - glad to see it has received so many comments already. As requested, here are some suggestions for improvement.
Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog. I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 20:47, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
Toolbox |
---|
This peer review discussion has been closed.
This article is a sequel to
Tchaikovsky and the Five, which was recently listed as FA. Like its predecessor, it is on a topic known about Russian classical music but seldom duscussed in detail in the West; unlike its predecessor, it talks about a later, more positive relationship
Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky had with his peers, one that was mutually beneficial in terms of artistic growth. I've listed this article for peer review because I have taken it as far as possible on my own in terms of scope and quality of writing. I really need input on how this article can be improved and taken to FA quality. Please note: Alt text has not been provided for all images because the images used in the article are still being finalized. Thanks very much for your attention, and I look forward to your comments. BTW, special thanks to
Brianboulton for his encouraging me to create this article, and to
Ruhrfisch for the very cool lead image, which he provided.
Jonyungk (
talk)
18:14, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Crimsonfox's Comments
I really enjoyed reading the article and wasn't expecting it so I hope my comments help. Browser crashed first time trying to submit this so I may have missed some things I originally put, I'll have another quick check later. CrimsonFox talk 03:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Brianboulton comments:-
I have so far been concentrating on the lead. As written I think attention is needed in a number of areas, mainly:-
As a result I have formulated a slightly shorter lead which is given below. However, I am still confused by the third paragraph, even though I've modified it slightly. Is it saying that the two main legacies of Russian music—Saint Petersburg and Moscow—were supplemented by a third, perhaps more unifying legacy, that derived from Tchaikovsky's association with the Belyayev circle and of which Rachmaninov and the others mentioned are representative? That's how I read it but I may be wrong - it needs further clarification.
In November 1887, Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky arrived in Saint Petersburg, Russia, to attend the Russian Symphony Concerts, a series devoted exclusively to music of Russian composers. Among works featured were the first complete performance of the final version of Tchaikovsky's First Symphony, and the premiere of the revised version of Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov's Third Symphony. Rimsky-Korsakov, with Alexander Glazunov, Anatoly Lyadov and several other nationalistically-minded composers and musicians, had formed a group called the Belyayev circle. This group was named after timber merchant Mitrofan Belyayev, an amateur musician who became an influential music patron and publisher after he had taken an interest in Glazunov's work. During Tchaikovsky's visit to Saint Petersburg he spent much time in the company of these men; as a result, the somewhat fraught relationship he had previously endured with the nationalistic composer group known collectively as The Five would eventually meld into something more harmonious. This relationship would last until Tchaikovsky's death in late 1893.
By 1887, Tchaikovsky was firmly established as one of the leading composers in Russia. A favorite of Tsar Alexander III, he was widely regarded as a national treasure. He was in demand as a guest conductor in Russia and Western Europe, and in 1890 would visit the United States in the same capacity. By contrast, the fortunes of The Five had waned, and the group had long since dispersed. Modest Mussorgsky, who had remained the most antipathetic of the group toward Tchaikovsky and his music, was dead, as was Alexander Borodin. César Cui, the composer and critic who continued to write negative reviews of Tchaikovsky's music, was seen by the composer as merely a critical irritant. Mily Balakirev, the former leader of the group, lived in isolation and was confined to the musical sidelines. Of The Five, only Rimsky-Korsakov remained fully active as a composer. Now a professor of musical composition and orchestration at the Saint Petersburg Conservatory, he had become a firm believer in the Western-based compositional training that had been once frowned upon by the group.
Tchaikovsky's friendship with Glazunov, Lyadov and Rimsky-Korsakov gave him increased confidence in his own abilities as a composer. However, there remained friction between composers based in Saint Petersburg, then the political and cultural capital of Russia, and those based in Moscow, which also boasted a music conservatory at which Tchaikovsky had formerly taught. Because of this inter-city rivalry, two distinct Russian musical legacies emerged together with a third, less distinct one, from the members of the Belyayev circle. Among those influenced by Tchaikovsky in Moscow were Sergei Rachmaninoff and Sergei Taneyev. Anton Arensky, a former pupil of Rimsky-Korsakov, also received musical advice and encouragement from Tchaikovsky; his works varied in influence between these two men.
One minor point in the first paragraph: which is more correct, "a group called the Belyayev circle" or "a group which became known as the Belyayev circle"?
If you can respond on these points, I'll continue my review into the body of the article. Brianboulton ( talk) 16:40, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
Continuing:-
Will conclude this later. Brianboulton ( talk) 16:35, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
Concluding
I hope these final remarks are helpful. I haven't had time to do a line-by-line review of this part of the article, though no obvious problems stand out. Overall this has been a fascinating insight into the politics of 19th century Russian music, an area on which I previously had little or no knowledge, and on which I am now much better informed. Brianboulton ( talk) 23:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
Awadewit's comments
I've read the article once now - I'll reread and then post my comments.
Awadewit (
talk)
05:03, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
I hope these are helpful - I think it is the lead that needs the most work. Awadewit ( talk) 01:23, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
Ruhrfisch comments: Very nice article and lovely lead image ;-) - glad to see it has received so many comments already. As requested, here are some suggestions for improvement.
Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog. I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 20:47, 6 February 2010 (UTC)