- A script has been used to generate a semi- automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for January 2009.
This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I need someone to do a copy edit and general check before submitting this for a FLC since my last FLC failed mostly due to copyediting.
Thanks,
じん
ない
00:53, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Brief comments by
Ink Runner (
talk ·
contribs)
- Some of the references appear to be of questionable reliability. I think Anime News Network is reliable, but what makes Mania: Beyond Entertainment or Absolute Anime reliable? Remember, they should be judged against the criteria at
WP:Reliable sources.
- Mania is specifically listed on the
same group as ANN and the reviews are staff writers (that can be checked by looking at the staff pages and whatnot on Mania).
Absolute anime was cited by a reliable source for commentary as the reviewers being an expert.じん ない 05:50, 28 January 2009 (UTC)- Removed Abosulte anime...everything they cite is plot anyway. じん ない 05:58, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- Mania is specifically listed on the
same group as ANN and the reviews are staff writers (that can be checked by looking at the staff pages and whatnot on Mania).
- There are informal/slang terms such as "heart of gold" and "blow a fuse". Also, I noticed some contractions. Unless part of a quote, they should not be used.
- Please go ahead and replace them with something more appropriate then. じん ない 05:50, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- The first image's caption says that all of the notable characters are in it; what purpose do the other three serve then? Inclusion of so many fair-use images may violate
WP policy.
- First, the second depicts the primary protagonist for the anime and main supporting characters for the VN since the quality is hard to see (due to having to lower the quality for fair-use). The third dipicts a visually the hierarchy of the antagonist/1 protagonist. It is a more in-universe depiction than the rest, but to describe it, which would have to be done in order to understand the complex relationship or the narrative to the average reader, a visual represenatation is far better. The middle character is the most important and the other 2 are lesser. The one on the right is higher up slightly than the one on the left showing a slightly more senior pisition and importance. Finally the last one is needed because he is a protagonist for the game, of which otherwise there is no representation of. じん ない 05:50, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
I can give the prose a look, but I think the referencing issue should be addressed first.
More detailed review
I don't want to clutter up the page with issues, so I'll just do the copyedit myself. There are, however, a few more issues.
- There are some statements that need citations: (this may not be a comprehensive list; I would recommend checking the article against
Wikipedia:Citing sources#When to cite sources to see if there's anything else that needs citing)
"European-style mansion"- This one is a translation from the game
...litterally. From what has been said in the past on such discussions you don't need to cite translation items like that. The most commonly used term by the reviewers is "mansion". However, they are also biased from a western-looking standpoint and thus the term "european-style" is not added. Since wikipedia is suppose to be neutral, the most appropriate term imo is to use European-styled mansion since it translates, depending upon context to "european-style house, building or mansion. じん ない 08:19, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- This one is a translation from the game
- "She is the most openly perverted of the characters with Chris and Mea."
- The third paragraph of the "Mii" section has no citations.
- See general citations. I also added some more. Those are considered good enough per citation guidelines. じん ない 08:19, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- "It is unclear in the anime whether Mea is an android or not." This looks like WP:OR, so a citation is definitely needed here.
- "though her level of interaction otherwise would be indistinguishable with a minor character"
- "she is the only notable such hybrid of its type in any form of literature"
- What makes the following reliable sources?
http://www5d.biglobe.ne.jp/~oreteki/yarouze!!/184.html- That one was a holdover I forgot to remove... じん ない 07:34, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
http://vndb.org/v196- Thought it was something else...i'll remove that site. じん ない 08:01, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
-
http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10040211
- This one is used to verify the products existance as a commercial outlet. じん ない 07:34, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
-
http://www.animetric.com/nop2/popotan.html
- [ Anime News Network has quoted them on their news section - not review section, which qualifies them as a expert self-published source. じん ない 07:57, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Prose issues
- "Early on in the series she makes friends with a classmate of hers, Konami. When it was time for Mai to leave, Konami helped convince her that she was wrong and in consolation Mai left a sketch portrait Konami they were to make for a class assignment for Konami as a departing gift stating that they will remain friends forever" Who left whom a portrait? It's kind of unclear here.
- Konami gave her a sketch portrait of Mai to Mai. じん ない 08:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
- "Mai ultimately gave up and failed" Failed how?
- failed at showing Konami's daughter that her way of introverted thinking was wrong. Although that's probably not right either since while she personally fails, Konami's daughter, Mai, does come around on her own accord after the middle sister, Mai, leaves. じん ない 08:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
- "She also tries to take the initiative with Chris early on" Take the initiative how?
- infinitive in sex by asking him to watch her masturbate and attempting giving him a blowjob. じん ない 04:16, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
- I'll wait till you get back before editing any text in regard to the statements I did not comment on. じん ない 08:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Yuri/lesbian - I disagree with that change. Lesbian is a noun and is much more clearly defined to be girls who like girls. I specifically chose yuri because it is a noun or a verb used to describe the action. じん ない 01:47, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
- You're right, lesbian refers to an orientation; if Mii just did it to shock/whatever, then maybe "lesbian" could be substituted with "same-sex" or just dropped altogether, but WP's Manual of Style for Japanese-related articles encourages English terms to be used instead of foreign terms as much as possible (for example, "television drama" instead of "dorama"), and "yuri" refers to a genre of manga rather than a classification of a sexual act.
Ink Runner (
talk)
03:47, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
- same-sex doesn't sound right so drop it altogether I'd say. Since Mea is on the list, the reader should be able to connect the two together. じん ない 04:10, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
- Does "Ai revealed to the viewers" mean that she
broke the fourth wall or what?
Ink Runner (
talk)
06:51, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
- No. This is completely within narrative, but the only person nearby is Mai who already knows this. じん ない 07:07, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
- Also, I'm not too familiar with visual novels, so what does "to varying degrees depending upon whether it's her scenario or not" mean?
Ink Runner (
talk)
06:56, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
- You have certain paths or tracks you follow somewhat losesly. Kind of like the Choose Your Own Adventure Books, but with graphics, sound effects and heavier plot. じん ない 07:07, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
- A script has been used to generate a semi- automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for January 2009.
This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I need someone to do a copy edit and general check before submitting this for a FLC since my last FLC failed mostly due to copyediting.
Thanks,
じん
ない
00:53, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Brief comments by
Ink Runner (
talk ·
contribs)
- Some of the references appear to be of questionable reliability. I think Anime News Network is reliable, but what makes Mania: Beyond Entertainment or Absolute Anime reliable? Remember, they should be judged against the criteria at
WP:Reliable sources.
- Mania is specifically listed on the
same group as ANN and the reviews are staff writers (that can be checked by looking at the staff pages and whatnot on Mania).
Absolute anime was cited by a reliable source for commentary as the reviewers being an expert.じん ない 05:50, 28 January 2009 (UTC)- Removed Abosulte anime...everything they cite is plot anyway. じん ない 05:58, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- Mania is specifically listed on the
same group as ANN and the reviews are staff writers (that can be checked by looking at the staff pages and whatnot on Mania).
- There are informal/slang terms such as "heart of gold" and "blow a fuse". Also, I noticed some contractions. Unless part of a quote, they should not be used.
- Please go ahead and replace them with something more appropriate then. じん ない 05:50, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- The first image's caption says that all of the notable characters are in it; what purpose do the other three serve then? Inclusion of so many fair-use images may violate
WP policy.
- First, the second depicts the primary protagonist for the anime and main supporting characters for the VN since the quality is hard to see (due to having to lower the quality for fair-use). The third dipicts a visually the hierarchy of the antagonist/1 protagonist. It is a more in-universe depiction than the rest, but to describe it, which would have to be done in order to understand the complex relationship or the narrative to the average reader, a visual represenatation is far better. The middle character is the most important and the other 2 are lesser. The one on the right is higher up slightly than the one on the left showing a slightly more senior pisition and importance. Finally the last one is needed because he is a protagonist for the game, of which otherwise there is no representation of. じん ない 05:50, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
I can give the prose a look, but I think the referencing issue should be addressed first.
More detailed review
I don't want to clutter up the page with issues, so I'll just do the copyedit myself. There are, however, a few more issues.
- There are some statements that need citations: (this may not be a comprehensive list; I would recommend checking the article against
Wikipedia:Citing sources#When to cite sources to see if there's anything else that needs citing)
"European-style mansion"- This one is a translation from the game
...litterally. From what has been said in the past on such discussions you don't need to cite translation items like that. The most commonly used term by the reviewers is "mansion". However, they are also biased from a western-looking standpoint and thus the term "european-style" is not added. Since wikipedia is suppose to be neutral, the most appropriate term imo is to use European-styled mansion since it translates, depending upon context to "european-style house, building or mansion. じん ない 08:19, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- This one is a translation from the game
- "She is the most openly perverted of the characters with Chris and Mea."
- The third paragraph of the "Mii" section has no citations.
- See general citations. I also added some more. Those are considered good enough per citation guidelines. じん ない 08:19, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- "It is unclear in the anime whether Mea is an android or not." This looks like WP:OR, so a citation is definitely needed here.
- "though her level of interaction otherwise would be indistinguishable with a minor character"
- "she is the only notable such hybrid of its type in any form of literature"
- What makes the following reliable sources?
http://www5d.biglobe.ne.jp/~oreteki/yarouze!!/184.html- That one was a holdover I forgot to remove... じん ない 07:34, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
http://vndb.org/v196- Thought it was something else...i'll remove that site. じん ない 08:01, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
-
http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10040211
- This one is used to verify the products existance as a commercial outlet. じん ない 07:34, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
-
http://www.animetric.com/nop2/popotan.html
- [ Anime News Network has quoted them on their news section - not review section, which qualifies them as a expert self-published source. じん ない 07:57, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Prose issues
- "Early on in the series she makes friends with a classmate of hers, Konami. When it was time for Mai to leave, Konami helped convince her that she was wrong and in consolation Mai left a sketch portrait Konami they were to make for a class assignment for Konami as a departing gift stating that they will remain friends forever" Who left whom a portrait? It's kind of unclear here.
- Konami gave her a sketch portrait of Mai to Mai. じん ない 08:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
- "Mai ultimately gave up and failed" Failed how?
- failed at showing Konami's daughter that her way of introverted thinking was wrong. Although that's probably not right either since while she personally fails, Konami's daughter, Mai, does come around on her own accord after the middle sister, Mai, leaves. じん ない 08:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
- "She also tries to take the initiative with Chris early on" Take the initiative how?
- infinitive in sex by asking him to watch her masturbate and attempting giving him a blowjob. じん ない 04:16, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
- I'll wait till you get back before editing any text in regard to the statements I did not comment on. じん ない 08:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Yuri/lesbian - I disagree with that change. Lesbian is a noun and is much more clearly defined to be girls who like girls. I specifically chose yuri because it is a noun or a verb used to describe the action. じん ない 01:47, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
- You're right, lesbian refers to an orientation; if Mii just did it to shock/whatever, then maybe "lesbian" could be substituted with "same-sex" or just dropped altogether, but WP's Manual of Style for Japanese-related articles encourages English terms to be used instead of foreign terms as much as possible (for example, "television drama" instead of "dorama"), and "yuri" refers to a genre of manga rather than a classification of a sexual act.
Ink Runner (
talk)
03:47, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
- same-sex doesn't sound right so drop it altogether I'd say. Since Mea is on the list, the reader should be able to connect the two together. じん ない 04:10, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
- Does "Ai revealed to the viewers" mean that she
broke the fourth wall or what?
Ink Runner (
talk)
06:51, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
- No. This is completely within narrative, but the only person nearby is Mai who already knows this. じん ない 07:07, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
- Also, I'm not too familiar with visual novels, so what does "to varying degrees depending upon whether it's her scenario or not" mean?
Ink Runner (
talk)
06:56, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
- You have certain paths or tracks you follow somewhat losesly. Kind of like the Choose Your Own Adventure Books, but with graphics, sound effects and heavier plot. じん ない 07:07, 7 February 2009 (UTC)