I've listed this article for peer review because I'd like to get it to FAC. I suspect the prose needs improvement to reach FA-standard, which is not quite my strong suit. Would appreciate any help & feedback!
ProcrastinatingReader (
talk)
12:06, 17 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Comments from 👨x🐱
Ooooo. An article about a
muuuuddah. That's gonna be good. Couple of comments from a quick scan.
Does the small paragraph in "People involved" really need its own subsection? Can it be merged into "Bakground"
I suppose, I think what I liked about the separate sub-heading was it splits up the background between 'context of the island, its tourist nature and history of murders' vs 'background of the victims'. Wonder if removing the heading would remove that structure? If not, removal is fine with me.
Since the "Asian Anthropology" is cited constantly and lasts several pages, there needs to be specific page numbers of that article indicated each time its cited for verifability. I would use either
Template:Rp or
Template:Sfn. If you are to use Sfn, put the full citation in a "Bibliography" section and insert ref= into the cite template, with
Template:SfnRef to be inserted to link it to Sfn footnotes.
I see. Any suggestions on which method is better? If I go the Sfn route, do I need to refactor any of the other citations (like to news articles)?
A picture in the heading would really help. Maybe put the picture of Sairee beach in the heading a put a geographic map of the island in the "background" section. That's just my suggestion, though.
Thanks! Done
Put a bit more info in the first paragraph, and the lead in general. Maybe more about who the tourists were, more about the murder, etc. Right now, it's pretty bare-bones.
Good point. Will try to draft up some additions.
The exact same sentence is used in the intro and the final paragraph.
You might want to combine "effects on tourism" into the "reaction" section, but it's at your discretion.
Varied the sentence slightly. Though I feel like it may be worth having the effects on tourism section separate. Sources viewed one reason for the rush as being concerns due to affecting tourism, and given the nature of the island and its economy I think analysis/events on that front is worth a section in itself, separate from thoughts people had on the event.
Admittedly not sure (first I've learned of this cite format), but I wondered this too. I don't know if the other cites can be put in this format since they aren't really paged.
ProcrastinatingReader (
talk)
10:29, 10 June 2021 (UTC)reply
None of the sources seemed to refer to this as
Ko Tao murders. I'm not sure Ko Tao is the COMMONNAME for the island itself, but even if so, I thought that in
WP:CRITERIA the COMMONNAME (for the event) would override CONSISTENCY (with the island's title).
Not the article title, but we do link
Koh Tao in the lede and body. I think it's worth investigating if the title of that article should be changed, as currently it's a bit odd. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)12:35, 10 June 2021 (UTC)reply
I feel the lede doesn't need the bolding, or at least doesn't need to start like it does. Try On 15 September 2014 when two British tourists, Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, were found dead on a beach on the island of Koh Tao, Thailand, later named the Koh Tao murders by the media. or similar. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)14:45, 6 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Hmm. Good point, although which should be unlinked? I felt that migrant workers were worth linking, as well as Burmese (especially given the name change from Myanmar), and "illegal immigration" seems relevant enough to link too. I can't really decide which links to scrap.
The suspects were initially denied access to legal counsel and alleged that police used torture and threats to secure a confession - this doesn't actually specify whether they got a confession. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)14:45, 6 June 2021 (UTC)reply
They did; I'll see if I can reword this portion more clearly.
. In December 2015 the men were convicted of the murder and sentenced to death. Attempts to appeal the sentence failed, but a royal decree was issued in 2020 commuting the death sentences to life imprisonment. - say "workers", we didn't actually specific these people were men, and we haven't named them. Also might be worth mentioning where the royal decree came from. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)14:45, 6 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Isn't it best to link to the redirect in case the article gets expanded?
The government of Thailand was concerned the murders might affect tourism to the island. Tourist arrivals to the island dropped in the months following the murders, but the event did not materially affect tourism to the island over the following years. - tourism said a lot here. Try: The government of Thailand was concerned the murders might affect tourism to the island, with arrivals dropping in the months following the murders. However, the event did not materially affect tourism to the island over the following years. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)14:45, 6 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Thanks! I tried to play around with that sentence quite a few times but couldn't figure out the right formulation.
@
Lee Vilenski: I think those are addressed, mostly. The title is still outstanding (I don't think we can change it to Ko Tao in the article without it being confusing, especially as no sources use that construction. I haven't checked whether the place itself's COMMONNAME is Koh Tao yet.), and I need to check re who the critics were (source I used is unclear). One question re
decree, above. Any other suggestions?
ProcrastinatingReader (
talk)
11:16, 18 July 2021 (UTC)reply
@
ProcrastinatingReader: Instructions on how to close PRs can be found at
WP:PRG; if you have any questions on closing PRs, please ping me. As a closing thought: I highly suggest that you review articles at
WP:FAC to help your understanding of the process. Reviewers do not have to declare support/oppose in reviews and new reviewers are especially helpful in checking articles for jargon, technical terms and the ability for the average reader to understand the article's prose. Reviewing FACs will also build goodwill with other editors, who are more likely to review articles nominated by editors who also review FACs. It takes at least five reviewers to pass a nomination, so I suggest reviewing at least that many articles for every article you want to nominate.
Z1720 (
talk)
16:52, 7 August 2021 (UTC)reply
I've listed this article for peer review because I'd like to get it to FAC. I suspect the prose needs improvement to reach FA-standard, which is not quite my strong suit. Would appreciate any help & feedback!
ProcrastinatingReader (
talk)
12:06, 17 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Comments from 👨x🐱
Ooooo. An article about a
muuuuddah. That's gonna be good. Couple of comments from a quick scan.
Does the small paragraph in "People involved" really need its own subsection? Can it be merged into "Bakground"
I suppose, I think what I liked about the separate sub-heading was it splits up the background between 'context of the island, its tourist nature and history of murders' vs 'background of the victims'. Wonder if removing the heading would remove that structure? If not, removal is fine with me.
Since the "Asian Anthropology" is cited constantly and lasts several pages, there needs to be specific page numbers of that article indicated each time its cited for verifability. I would use either
Template:Rp or
Template:Sfn. If you are to use Sfn, put the full citation in a "Bibliography" section and insert ref= into the cite template, with
Template:SfnRef to be inserted to link it to Sfn footnotes.
I see. Any suggestions on which method is better? If I go the Sfn route, do I need to refactor any of the other citations (like to news articles)?
A picture in the heading would really help. Maybe put the picture of Sairee beach in the heading a put a geographic map of the island in the "background" section. That's just my suggestion, though.
Thanks! Done
Put a bit more info in the first paragraph, and the lead in general. Maybe more about who the tourists were, more about the murder, etc. Right now, it's pretty bare-bones.
Good point. Will try to draft up some additions.
The exact same sentence is used in the intro and the final paragraph.
You might want to combine "effects on tourism" into the "reaction" section, but it's at your discretion.
Varied the sentence slightly. Though I feel like it may be worth having the effects on tourism section separate. Sources viewed one reason for the rush as being concerns due to affecting tourism, and given the nature of the island and its economy I think analysis/events on that front is worth a section in itself, separate from thoughts people had on the event.
Admittedly not sure (first I've learned of this cite format), but I wondered this too. I don't know if the other cites can be put in this format since they aren't really paged.
ProcrastinatingReader (
talk)
10:29, 10 June 2021 (UTC)reply
None of the sources seemed to refer to this as
Ko Tao murders. I'm not sure Ko Tao is the COMMONNAME for the island itself, but even if so, I thought that in
WP:CRITERIA the COMMONNAME (for the event) would override CONSISTENCY (with the island's title).
Not the article title, but we do link
Koh Tao in the lede and body. I think it's worth investigating if the title of that article should be changed, as currently it's a bit odd. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)12:35, 10 June 2021 (UTC)reply
I feel the lede doesn't need the bolding, or at least doesn't need to start like it does. Try On 15 September 2014 when two British tourists, Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, were found dead on a beach on the island of Koh Tao, Thailand, later named the Koh Tao murders by the media. or similar. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)14:45, 6 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Hmm. Good point, although which should be unlinked? I felt that migrant workers were worth linking, as well as Burmese (especially given the name change from Myanmar), and "illegal immigration" seems relevant enough to link too. I can't really decide which links to scrap.
The suspects were initially denied access to legal counsel and alleged that police used torture and threats to secure a confession - this doesn't actually specify whether they got a confession. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)14:45, 6 June 2021 (UTC)reply
They did; I'll see if I can reword this portion more clearly.
. In December 2015 the men were convicted of the murder and sentenced to death. Attempts to appeal the sentence failed, but a royal decree was issued in 2020 commuting the death sentences to life imprisonment. - say "workers", we didn't actually specific these people were men, and we haven't named them. Also might be worth mentioning where the royal decree came from. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)14:45, 6 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Isn't it best to link to the redirect in case the article gets expanded?
The government of Thailand was concerned the murders might affect tourism to the island. Tourist arrivals to the island dropped in the months following the murders, but the event did not materially affect tourism to the island over the following years. - tourism said a lot here. Try: The government of Thailand was concerned the murders might affect tourism to the island, with arrivals dropping in the months following the murders. However, the event did not materially affect tourism to the island over the following years. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)14:45, 6 June 2021 (UTC)reply
Thanks! I tried to play around with that sentence quite a few times but couldn't figure out the right formulation.
@
Lee Vilenski: I think those are addressed, mostly. The title is still outstanding (I don't think we can change it to Ko Tao in the article without it being confusing, especially as no sources use that construction. I haven't checked whether the place itself's COMMONNAME is Koh Tao yet.), and I need to check re who the critics were (source I used is unclear). One question re
decree, above. Any other suggestions?
ProcrastinatingReader (
talk)
11:16, 18 July 2021 (UTC)reply
@
ProcrastinatingReader: Instructions on how to close PRs can be found at
WP:PRG; if you have any questions on closing PRs, please ping me. As a closing thought: I highly suggest that you review articles at
WP:FAC to help your understanding of the process. Reviewers do not have to declare support/oppose in reviews and new reviewers are especially helpful in checking articles for jargon, technical terms and the ability for the average reader to understand the article's prose. Reviewing FACs will also build goodwill with other editors, who are more likely to review articles nominated by editors who also review FACs. It takes at least five reviewers to pass a nomination, so I suggest reviewing at least that many articles for every article you want to nominate.
Z1720 (
talk)
16:52, 7 August 2021 (UTC)reply