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This peer review discussion has been closed.
We've listed this article for peer review because we would like to submit to
WP:FAC soon and wanted a last check to make sure it meets the FAC criteria.
Thanks in advance for any help, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:35, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
P.S. I am copying User:Brianboulton's comments from the article's talk page below. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:39, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
At the request of Ruhrfisch I have agreed to act as a set of fresh eyes and to check over the article's prose, rather as I might in a peer review. Here are my comments on the lead and the first main section; more will follow over the next few days.
Hope these comments help. Brianboulton ( talk) 01:06, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Some further comments:-
I'll try and complete my comments tomorrow. Brianboulton ( talk) 00:10, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Final comments:
Those are my comments on the prose. The main image at the end is stunning. Brianboulton ( talk) 22:28, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Apologies for late content addition. I was looking for a book for Petrillo Music Shell and stumbled upon a relevant book for this. If you get a chance pay close attention to the late contributions.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 05:46, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
comments by doncram: I saw notice of this at User talk:TonyTheTiger and have just read almost all of it. Article is really interesting, nice job! About the section now titled "Controversies", I like that it is a separate section and that it goes into various during-design, during-construction, and opening/early operations issues. It seems reasonable and interesting to go into those, and the discussion indicates that the Chicago community is involved and taking ownership of the public space (or continuing with Chicago traditions of ownership over that park area). Some of the issues are unique due to the scale and novelty of the project. It reminds me of one controversy about the Gehry-designed Walt Disney Concert Hall in Los Angeles, where the burnished metal curves reflected too much and focused uncomfortable amounts of sunlight into some nearby buildings (resolved eventually by dulling selected parts of the curved surfaces). My point is that startup issues are present in other Gehry designs and perhaps in most other major new public area constructions. Big new ships require shakedown cruises to sort out all their startup issues. The Disney Music Hall article has a separate section titled "Reflection Problems" on that one issue there. But perhaps there is a useful catch-all section title wording in other Wikipedia articles. Perhaps the title of the section should be revised to something like "Design and Startup Issues" to convey that the controversies/issues are now in the past, if that is accurate. Or add a separate section on "Continuing Issues" if needed. Startup issues like the park policy about where alcoholic drinks are allowed, and the early faux pas of confiscating water bottles, deserve mention and are interesting, but surely those are fully resolved now. "Glitches"; "Problems"; "Startup Issues"?
Very small question/point: the clickable map of the Millenium park has a caption explaining it is "wikilinked". The term "wikilink" is jargon and seems wp:selfishly referring to Wikipedia, in a mild way, to me. Perhaps the term itself should be wikilinked (to wikilink?) so that readers can find out what it means, or I think I would prefer for it to be avoided. Just "linked" perhaps? But I am not familiar with what is Wikipedia FA policy and practice on use of the term.
Hope this helps, and again nice job! doncram ( talk) 17:18, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Two comments from Ruhrfisch I think that the level of detail in the Construction section is comparable to that in other FAs on Millennium Park features (especially
BP Pedestrian Bridge and
Crown Fountain), so I am reluctant to trim it much (although this sentence could be trimmed U.S. Equities Realty was responsible for negotiating contracts with Gehry and all contractors who performed construction, civil engineering, audio engineering and landscaping.[7] I had thought about putting the contractors in the first paragraph in a note, but am not sure about that (again the other park FAs do not do this).
As for the controversies, I read all of the references that were online for the height restriction controversy, and most of them are about the controversy concerning building the proposed Children's Museum in another portion of Grant Park, with only tangential mention of the pavilion (if any). I have not read the books, but assume they go into more detail on the controversy. My concern is that there are newspaper articles on the Petrillo family's naming concerns, the Tori Amos concert charge, and the cost and time overruns, but not on this. My guess (original research warning) is that because Millennium Park was an addition to Grant Park (new park land), it was more acceptable to add features in the new park which broke the Montgomery Ward restrictions. Plus the park already had one bandshell, so another (huge) one was somehow OK. In the case of the Children's Museum, it seems that building it will result in a loss of some park land, plus the whole "why should this museum be given Grant Park land and not any of the other deserving Chicago museums?" question. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 14:45, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
(out) I am done with copyedits and think the PR points have been addressed. As noted, the detail is still mostly present in the Construction section, but I made a fairly major reorganization of that section which split up some of the details on subcontractors and tried to make things go from general to specific. The level of detail is also simialr to the other Millennium Park FAs. I checked and the Controversies section only uses the word controversies / controversial three times, and one of those is in the section header. If someone wants changes in FAC, we can deal with them there, but I think this is ready for FAC. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 01:37, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Toolbox |
---|
This peer review discussion has been closed.
We've listed this article for peer review because we would like to submit to
WP:FAC soon and wanted a last check to make sure it meets the FAC criteria.
Thanks in advance for any help, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:35, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
P.S. I am copying User:Brianboulton's comments from the article's talk page below. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 11:39, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
At the request of Ruhrfisch I have agreed to act as a set of fresh eyes and to check over the article's prose, rather as I might in a peer review. Here are my comments on the lead and the first main section; more will follow over the next few days.
Hope these comments help. Brianboulton ( talk) 01:06, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Some further comments:-
I'll try and complete my comments tomorrow. Brianboulton ( talk) 00:10, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Final comments:
Those are my comments on the prose. The main image at the end is stunning. Brianboulton ( talk) 22:28, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Apologies for late content addition. I was looking for a book for Petrillo Music Shell and stumbled upon a relevant book for this. If you get a chance pay close attention to the late contributions.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 05:46, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
comments by doncram: I saw notice of this at User talk:TonyTheTiger and have just read almost all of it. Article is really interesting, nice job! About the section now titled "Controversies", I like that it is a separate section and that it goes into various during-design, during-construction, and opening/early operations issues. It seems reasonable and interesting to go into those, and the discussion indicates that the Chicago community is involved and taking ownership of the public space (or continuing with Chicago traditions of ownership over that park area). Some of the issues are unique due to the scale and novelty of the project. It reminds me of one controversy about the Gehry-designed Walt Disney Concert Hall in Los Angeles, where the burnished metal curves reflected too much and focused uncomfortable amounts of sunlight into some nearby buildings (resolved eventually by dulling selected parts of the curved surfaces). My point is that startup issues are present in other Gehry designs and perhaps in most other major new public area constructions. Big new ships require shakedown cruises to sort out all their startup issues. The Disney Music Hall article has a separate section titled "Reflection Problems" on that one issue there. But perhaps there is a useful catch-all section title wording in other Wikipedia articles. Perhaps the title of the section should be revised to something like "Design and Startup Issues" to convey that the controversies/issues are now in the past, if that is accurate. Or add a separate section on "Continuing Issues" if needed. Startup issues like the park policy about where alcoholic drinks are allowed, and the early faux pas of confiscating water bottles, deserve mention and are interesting, but surely those are fully resolved now. "Glitches"; "Problems"; "Startup Issues"?
Very small question/point: the clickable map of the Millenium park has a caption explaining it is "wikilinked". The term "wikilink" is jargon and seems wp:selfishly referring to Wikipedia, in a mild way, to me. Perhaps the term itself should be wikilinked (to wikilink?) so that readers can find out what it means, or I think I would prefer for it to be avoided. Just "linked" perhaps? But I am not familiar with what is Wikipedia FA policy and practice on use of the term.
Hope this helps, and again nice job! doncram ( talk) 17:18, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Two comments from Ruhrfisch I think that the level of detail in the Construction section is comparable to that in other FAs on Millennium Park features (especially
BP Pedestrian Bridge and
Crown Fountain), so I am reluctant to trim it much (although this sentence could be trimmed U.S. Equities Realty was responsible for negotiating contracts with Gehry and all contractors who performed construction, civil engineering, audio engineering and landscaping.[7] I had thought about putting the contractors in the first paragraph in a note, but am not sure about that (again the other park FAs do not do this).
As for the controversies, I read all of the references that were online for the height restriction controversy, and most of them are about the controversy concerning building the proposed Children's Museum in another portion of Grant Park, with only tangential mention of the pavilion (if any). I have not read the books, but assume they go into more detail on the controversy. My concern is that there are newspaper articles on the Petrillo family's naming concerns, the Tori Amos concert charge, and the cost and time overruns, but not on this. My guess (original research warning) is that because Millennium Park was an addition to Grant Park (new park land), it was more acceptable to add features in the new park which broke the Montgomery Ward restrictions. Plus the park already had one bandshell, so another (huge) one was somehow OK. In the case of the Children's Museum, it seems that building it will result in a loss of some park land, plus the whole "why should this museum be given Grant Park land and not any of the other deserving Chicago museums?" question. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 14:45, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
(out) I am done with copyedits and think the PR points have been addressed. As noted, the detail is still mostly present in the Construction section, but I made a fairly major reorganization of that section which split up some of the details on subcontractors and tried to make things go from general to specific. The level of detail is also simialr to the other Millennium Park FAs. I checked and the Controversies section only uses the word controversies / controversial three times, and one of those is in the section header. If someone wants changes in FAC, we can deal with them there, but I think this is ready for FAC. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 01:37, 28 December 2009 (UTC)