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Ford Island

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This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I am hoping to bring it to WP:FAC within the next couple of weeks. User:Mark Miller, User:Mareklug, and I wrote this article from scratch. Thanks, v/r - T P 02:02, 24 May 2014 (UTC) reply

Crisco comments

  • Considering how this is closely related to the US Navy, WikiProject Military history's A-class review might provide significant feedback as well.
  • There's absolutely no prose about the geography of the island. Is it flat? Rugged? Hilly? Paved over? Covered in mangroves swamps? We don't even find out the area until halfway through the article. —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 11:55, 24 May 2014 (UTC) reply
  • United States state - Clunky. I think US state is preferred. Also, per WP:OVERLINK we shouldn't link common terms (such as US)
  • It was used by ancient Hawaiians ... new paragraph, restate the subject (rather than go right to pronouns). This seems to be an issue through the article.
  • Repeating United States twice in the same sentence is clunky.
  • Film titles should be italicised, per WP:ITALICS.
  • NOAA Tsunami warning center - Odd how you don't abbreviate United State, but abbreviate National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration without even a link. Also, is this supposed to be the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center?
  • With "such as", you don't need "amongst others".
  • Standardize your italicization of non-English terms. You have Moku'ume'ume but 'ume
  • It was named after the ceremony that took place there for childless couples called 'ume. - were the childless couples called 'ume, or the ceremony? This sentence could use some reworking
  • Ship names should also be italicised ( HMS Blonde, not HMS Blonde)
  • Early foreign settlers - this section title opens up the possibility of Polynesian and other non-European settlers. Since those mentioned appear European, why not change the header?
  • the Island - "Island" here should not be capitalized, as it is being used as a generic noun
  • The white space in #Sugar doesn't look very attractive
    • I removed the white space, but now it's pinching the text. I'll run to a local library and see if I can find addition information on the Oahu Sugar Company.--v/r - T P 20:47, 24 May 2014 (UTC) reply
      • Pinching the text depends on resolution. At 800 pixels wide it's quite attractive. At 2000 pixels wide, the whole article probably looks terrible (don't have anything that big, so I can't verify). I'd suggest trimming some images instead of forcing white space. —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 02:14, 25 May 2014 (UTC) reply
  • military commission recommended to cession of the site in exchange for tax free importation of sugar to the United States - US military or Hawaiian?
  • Lunalilo - who is this? Your readers may not be familiar with Hawaiian history, so you should be explicit that he was king at the time before continuing
  • You should not use abbreviations like "wasn't" in the text
  • What makes #Army Air Service and #Naval Auxiliary Landing Field Ford Island not part of #History? You may want to rename #History as #Early history
    • The island was essentially decommissioned. It was put into inactive use as more of a 'support' function than operational.--v/r - T P 20:47, 24 May 2014 (UTC) reply
  • Major Brooks, - first name?
  • US Army - standardize your abbreviation of "United States" (I believe the MOS prefers US, not U.S.)
  • Don't link terms more than once in the article body. I've seen three links to Hawaii already.
  • PK - link?
  • The dredging was done by the United Dredge Company for $1.5 million. - is this really pertinent to the island's history?
  • HAWAII AVIATION PRESERVATION SOCIETY - We should not use all-caps, even in references
  • The paragraph after the first table in #Army Air Service feels like a compilation of trivia.
    •  Done The sentence was disorganized. This was an important time of development on the island gearing up for WWII and to combat the Japanese threat. But the paragraph wasn't written in chronological order. I've fixed it.--v/r - T P 03:11, 26 May 2014 (UTC) reply
  • a target for the Japanese first wave raiders - might want to explicitly mention the attack in that sentence
  • In all, more than half of its planes, 33 total, were destroyed - your pronoun "its" doesn't have a clear subject to refer to. Hangar 6's airplanes? (BTW, I think "aircraft" is preferred, to avoid the airplane / aeroplane divide)
  • the west coast - if this is the west coast of the US, then this should be West Coast
  • 450 pounds - I believe this will need conversion
  • AOM1c - I really don't think this is necessary
  • Wake Island - link?
  • However, several of these planes, and others from Ford Island's own complement, were airborne again within a few hours, sent out to search for the enemy. - let me get this straight... the planes were shot down, then sent up again within hours?
  • hit by a crashing dive bomber, a bomb and fragments of another. - fragments of a bomber or a bomb?
  • The Pearl Harbor sections feel very confused, jumping from place to place and topic to topic, despite sometimes already having been dealt with
  • Over the next few weeks, - I've already lost track of time. When is this?
  • My impression from reading this is that there are a lot of simple sentences, which although good for readability, are going to raise hell during an A-class or FAC review.
  • That's it for today. —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 11:54, 24 May 2014 (UTC) reply
  • Why the big jump from the 1940s to the 1960s? Nothing in the 50s?
  • the Naval Station Ford Island - if Naval Station Ford Island is the formal name, it doesn't need "the". If it is a descriptor, "naval station" should be lowercase and followed by "on"
  • The State of Hawaii - last we heard Hawaii was independent and a kingdom. Some important information got missed during our time skip.
  • Boat lengths need conversion
  • Access to the island was restricted to US military personnel, their dependents, and invited guests. - when? Last we read, this was open to students learning how to fly
  • special legislation 2814 U. S. Code - Is this how it's correctly referred to?
  • the $331,000,000 NOAA's Senator Daniel Inouye Pacific Tsunami warning center - traffic jam; way too many adjectival clauses. Try reworking.
  • In 2004, a former emergency medical facility used during the attack on Pearl Harbor was converted into a lodge. - This is definitely not worth its own paragraph
  • 28 acres - convert template?
  • 34,000 square foot - convert template?
  • The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration also opened the Senator Daniel Inouye Pacific Tsunami Warning Center on the island. - you already mentioned this above
  • The island has also the for repair and maintenance and the informal home of the Sea-based X-band Radar, - The what? The what?
  • Touchstone Pictures - I very much doubt a company could physically lay a wreath. It was a representative.
  • its restoration projects - the tower's restoration projects?
  • Tennessee and Nevada streets - are the italics proper here?
  • The ship was towed off Ford Island for maintenance and was brought out to sea between completion of the maintenance and its return to the dock for filming. - I believe I remember reading somewhere that she moved on her own power for a while.
    • I looked in on it and these three sources, [1] [2] [3] say that the ship's engines haven't been used since 1992 and that the ship was towed during filming and the tugs were digitally removed from the films (or creatively shot).--v/r - T P 20:43, 2 June 2014 (UTC) reply

More later —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 02:28, 25 May 2014 (UTC) reply

  • it became apparent that the - I think "it was decided" may work better
    • It wasn't so much decided as much as it was that as they began working through the recovery plan, they realized that the effort was tremendous with little value added. The Arizona couldn't be re-floated, like the Oklahoma, and all other options were too time consuming and costly in the middle of a war.--v/r - T P 08:11, 25 May 2014 (UTC) reply
  • I've mentioned this PR to a Wikipedian who is a considerably better writer than I, better versed in American history (though this may be a bit late for him), and probably more handsome as well. He may drop by if he has the time. —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 08:37, 25 May 2014 (UTC) reply
    • Definitely appreciated, I can use all the help I can get. This is some excellent learning I'm doing for the next one.--v/r - T P 17:56, 25 May 2014 (UTC) reply
Comments by Dank
  • " It has been called Rabbit Island, Marin's Island, Little Goats Island, and its native Hawaiian name is Moku'ume'ume.": Missing an "and" before "Little".
    • Would I have a period after Island then and make the native Hawaiian name a separate sentence?--v/r - T P 06:24, 29 May 2014 (UTC) reply
      • You need an "and" in any series ... "it has been called X, Y, Z" is poetic or informal. The "and" you have starts its own independent clause. All you need is an "and" before the third element, with or without a comma: "Marin's Island and Little Goats Island, and its native ..." - Dank ( push to talk) 10:31, 29 May 2014 (UTC) reply
        • I think we might be reading it differently. When I read it, the ancient Hawaiian name is the last item in the list. Are you reading it differently?--v/r - T P 17:14, 29 May 2014 (UTC) reply
          • There are two main streams of thinking among copyeditors: there are describers and prescribers. Publishing houses hire people who are prescribers ... into style guides and dictionaries, willing to learn and follow a "house" style, and so on. Academics (particularly linguists) tend to be less accepting of dense lists of "grammar rules", and claim to "describe" the language as it's used by the masses, not as the style guides recommend. Nevertheless, on this point, the prescribers and describers agree ... you've got a verb after the Hawiian name, so both independent clauses in that sentence have to stand (or fail) as complete sentences on their own, and "It has been called Rabbit Island, Marin's Island, Little Goats Island" fails. - Dank ( push to talk) 17:24, 29 May 2014 (UTC) reply
            • Ahh, I see. I had no idea. So the "is" in the last segment makes it a compound sentence? Right, I'll go ahead and make the change then.--v/r - T P 17:49, 29 May 2014 (UTC) reply
  • "but later increased": I'd go with "but was increased in the 1930s"
  • "participate in a large bonfire": sounds strange, like participating in an oven.
  • "a mating ritual": I think I'd go with fertility ritual, even though there was clearly mating going on.
    •  Done I'm not sure how much of a fertility ritual it was, though, in the typical sense.--v/r - T P 06:29, 29 May 2014 (UTC) reply
      • The problem is that, in most readers' minds, "mating" isn't a ritual, so they won't know what you mean. If you don't like "fertility", then I'd recommend either less ("for special rituals") or more (a quick description of what happened). - Dank ( push to talk) 10:31, 29 May 2014 (UTC) reply
  • "In 1899 ... in the 1850s": I'm confused here. Keeping things in chronological order would help.
  • "sugar plantations in Hawaii became frustrated with US import tax which hindered Hawaii's income.": Plantations can't get frustrated, and income can't be hindered.
  • "to turn his efforts elsewhere toward Australia": to turn to Australia ... for something. - Dank ( push to talk) 03:18, 29 May 2014 (UTC) reply
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Peer_review/Ford_Island/archive1&oldid=614037943"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ford Island

Toolbox
Article ( | visual edit | history) · Article talk ( | history) · Watch • Watch peer review

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I am hoping to bring it to WP:FAC within the next couple of weeks. User:Mark Miller, User:Mareklug, and I wrote this article from scratch. Thanks, v/r - T P 02:02, 24 May 2014 (UTC) reply

Crisco comments

  • Considering how this is closely related to the US Navy, WikiProject Military history's A-class review might provide significant feedback as well.
  • There's absolutely no prose about the geography of the island. Is it flat? Rugged? Hilly? Paved over? Covered in mangroves swamps? We don't even find out the area until halfway through the article. —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 11:55, 24 May 2014 (UTC) reply
  • United States state - Clunky. I think US state is preferred. Also, per WP:OVERLINK we shouldn't link common terms (such as US)
  • It was used by ancient Hawaiians ... new paragraph, restate the subject (rather than go right to pronouns). This seems to be an issue through the article.
  • Repeating United States twice in the same sentence is clunky.
  • Film titles should be italicised, per WP:ITALICS.
  • NOAA Tsunami warning center - Odd how you don't abbreviate United State, but abbreviate National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration without even a link. Also, is this supposed to be the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center?
  • With "such as", you don't need "amongst others".
  • Standardize your italicization of non-English terms. You have Moku'ume'ume but 'ume
  • It was named after the ceremony that took place there for childless couples called 'ume. - were the childless couples called 'ume, or the ceremony? This sentence could use some reworking
  • Ship names should also be italicised ( HMS Blonde, not HMS Blonde)
  • Early foreign settlers - this section title opens up the possibility of Polynesian and other non-European settlers. Since those mentioned appear European, why not change the header?
  • the Island - "Island" here should not be capitalized, as it is being used as a generic noun
  • The white space in #Sugar doesn't look very attractive
    • I removed the white space, but now it's pinching the text. I'll run to a local library and see if I can find addition information on the Oahu Sugar Company.--v/r - T P 20:47, 24 May 2014 (UTC) reply
      • Pinching the text depends on resolution. At 800 pixels wide it's quite attractive. At 2000 pixels wide, the whole article probably looks terrible (don't have anything that big, so I can't verify). I'd suggest trimming some images instead of forcing white space. —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 02:14, 25 May 2014 (UTC) reply
  • military commission recommended to cession of the site in exchange for tax free importation of sugar to the United States - US military or Hawaiian?
  • Lunalilo - who is this? Your readers may not be familiar with Hawaiian history, so you should be explicit that he was king at the time before continuing
  • You should not use abbreviations like "wasn't" in the text
  • What makes #Army Air Service and #Naval Auxiliary Landing Field Ford Island not part of #History? You may want to rename #History as #Early history
    • The island was essentially decommissioned. It was put into inactive use as more of a 'support' function than operational.--v/r - T P 20:47, 24 May 2014 (UTC) reply
  • Major Brooks, - first name?
  • US Army - standardize your abbreviation of "United States" (I believe the MOS prefers US, not U.S.)
  • Don't link terms more than once in the article body. I've seen three links to Hawaii already.
  • PK - link?
  • The dredging was done by the United Dredge Company for $1.5 million. - is this really pertinent to the island's history?
  • HAWAII AVIATION PRESERVATION SOCIETY - We should not use all-caps, even in references
  • The paragraph after the first table in #Army Air Service feels like a compilation of trivia.
    •  Done The sentence was disorganized. This was an important time of development on the island gearing up for WWII and to combat the Japanese threat. But the paragraph wasn't written in chronological order. I've fixed it.--v/r - T P 03:11, 26 May 2014 (UTC) reply
  • a target for the Japanese first wave raiders - might want to explicitly mention the attack in that sentence
  • In all, more than half of its planes, 33 total, were destroyed - your pronoun "its" doesn't have a clear subject to refer to. Hangar 6's airplanes? (BTW, I think "aircraft" is preferred, to avoid the airplane / aeroplane divide)
  • the west coast - if this is the west coast of the US, then this should be West Coast
  • 450 pounds - I believe this will need conversion
  • AOM1c - I really don't think this is necessary
  • Wake Island - link?
  • However, several of these planes, and others from Ford Island's own complement, were airborne again within a few hours, sent out to search for the enemy. - let me get this straight... the planes were shot down, then sent up again within hours?
  • hit by a crashing dive bomber, a bomb and fragments of another. - fragments of a bomber or a bomb?
  • The Pearl Harbor sections feel very confused, jumping from place to place and topic to topic, despite sometimes already having been dealt with
  • Over the next few weeks, - I've already lost track of time. When is this?
  • My impression from reading this is that there are a lot of simple sentences, which although good for readability, are going to raise hell during an A-class or FAC review.
  • That's it for today. —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 11:54, 24 May 2014 (UTC) reply
  • Why the big jump from the 1940s to the 1960s? Nothing in the 50s?
  • the Naval Station Ford Island - if Naval Station Ford Island is the formal name, it doesn't need "the". If it is a descriptor, "naval station" should be lowercase and followed by "on"
  • The State of Hawaii - last we heard Hawaii was independent and a kingdom. Some important information got missed during our time skip.
  • Boat lengths need conversion
  • Access to the island was restricted to US military personnel, their dependents, and invited guests. - when? Last we read, this was open to students learning how to fly
  • special legislation 2814 U. S. Code - Is this how it's correctly referred to?
  • the $331,000,000 NOAA's Senator Daniel Inouye Pacific Tsunami warning center - traffic jam; way too many adjectival clauses. Try reworking.
  • In 2004, a former emergency medical facility used during the attack on Pearl Harbor was converted into a lodge. - This is definitely not worth its own paragraph
  • 28 acres - convert template?
  • 34,000 square foot - convert template?
  • The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration also opened the Senator Daniel Inouye Pacific Tsunami Warning Center on the island. - you already mentioned this above
  • The island has also the for repair and maintenance and the informal home of the Sea-based X-band Radar, - The what? The what?
  • Touchstone Pictures - I very much doubt a company could physically lay a wreath. It was a representative.
  • its restoration projects - the tower's restoration projects?
  • Tennessee and Nevada streets - are the italics proper here?
  • The ship was towed off Ford Island for maintenance and was brought out to sea between completion of the maintenance and its return to the dock for filming. - I believe I remember reading somewhere that she moved on her own power for a while.
    • I looked in on it and these three sources, [1] [2] [3] say that the ship's engines haven't been used since 1992 and that the ship was towed during filming and the tugs were digitally removed from the films (or creatively shot).--v/r - T P 20:43, 2 June 2014 (UTC) reply

More later —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 02:28, 25 May 2014 (UTC) reply

  • it became apparent that the - I think "it was decided" may work better
    • It wasn't so much decided as much as it was that as they began working through the recovery plan, they realized that the effort was tremendous with little value added. The Arizona couldn't be re-floated, like the Oklahoma, and all other options were too time consuming and costly in the middle of a war.--v/r - T P 08:11, 25 May 2014 (UTC) reply
  • I've mentioned this PR to a Wikipedian who is a considerably better writer than I, better versed in American history (though this may be a bit late for him), and probably more handsome as well. He may drop by if he has the time. —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 08:37, 25 May 2014 (UTC) reply
    • Definitely appreciated, I can use all the help I can get. This is some excellent learning I'm doing for the next one.--v/r - T P 17:56, 25 May 2014 (UTC) reply
Comments by Dank
  • " It has been called Rabbit Island, Marin's Island, Little Goats Island, and its native Hawaiian name is Moku'ume'ume.": Missing an "and" before "Little".
    • Would I have a period after Island then and make the native Hawaiian name a separate sentence?--v/r - T P 06:24, 29 May 2014 (UTC) reply
      • You need an "and" in any series ... "it has been called X, Y, Z" is poetic or informal. The "and" you have starts its own independent clause. All you need is an "and" before the third element, with or without a comma: "Marin's Island and Little Goats Island, and its native ..." - Dank ( push to talk) 10:31, 29 May 2014 (UTC) reply
        • I think we might be reading it differently. When I read it, the ancient Hawaiian name is the last item in the list. Are you reading it differently?--v/r - T P 17:14, 29 May 2014 (UTC) reply
          • There are two main streams of thinking among copyeditors: there are describers and prescribers. Publishing houses hire people who are prescribers ... into style guides and dictionaries, willing to learn and follow a "house" style, and so on. Academics (particularly linguists) tend to be less accepting of dense lists of "grammar rules", and claim to "describe" the language as it's used by the masses, not as the style guides recommend. Nevertheless, on this point, the prescribers and describers agree ... you've got a verb after the Hawiian name, so both independent clauses in that sentence have to stand (or fail) as complete sentences on their own, and "It has been called Rabbit Island, Marin's Island, Little Goats Island" fails. - Dank ( push to talk) 17:24, 29 May 2014 (UTC) reply
            • Ahh, I see. I had no idea. So the "is" in the last segment makes it a compound sentence? Right, I'll go ahead and make the change then.--v/r - T P 17:49, 29 May 2014 (UTC) reply
  • "but later increased": I'd go with "but was increased in the 1930s"
  • "participate in a large bonfire": sounds strange, like participating in an oven.
  • "a mating ritual": I think I'd go with fertility ritual, even though there was clearly mating going on.
    •  Done I'm not sure how much of a fertility ritual it was, though, in the typical sense.--v/r - T P 06:29, 29 May 2014 (UTC) reply
      • The problem is that, in most readers' minds, "mating" isn't a ritual, so they won't know what you mean. If you don't like "fertility", then I'd recommend either less ("for special rituals") or more (a quick description of what happened). - Dank ( push to talk) 10:31, 29 May 2014 (UTC) reply
  • "In 1899 ... in the 1850s": I'm confused here. Keeping things in chronological order would help.
  • "sugar plantations in Hawaii became frustrated with US import tax which hindered Hawaii's income.": Plantations can't get frustrated, and income can't be hindered.
  • "to turn his efforts elsewhere toward Australia": to turn to Australia ... for something. - Dank ( push to talk) 03:18, 29 May 2014 (UTC) reply
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Peer_review/Ford_Island/archive1&oldid=614037943"

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