A script has been used to generate a semi-
automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and
house style; it can be found on the
automated peer review page for February 2009.
This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because…
We all have been working hard to bring it up to Wikipedia's GA standards. I feel that the article is informative, providing information that has been verified to reliable sources and presented from a neutral point of view. I believe that the article makes good use of pictures and internal linking. Finally, as a total novice in the subject, I came away after reading this article with more than just a cursory overview of the topic, but rather more detailed expert knowledge of Fancy rats.
I am looking for outside opinions to see if they concur with my assessment here that this article is ready to be promoted to Good Article status.
Thanks, --
Levine2112discuss18:25, 3 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Ruhrfisch comments: Very interesting article and seems close to GA, here are some suggestions for improvement.
Reading
Wikipedia:Good article criteria, the main problems seem to be some
WP:MOS issues and a few broadness of coverage issues. I usually review articles with FA in mind, so some of my comments may be pickier than GA requires. I will start with MOS issues
The lead needs to follow
WP:LEAD. It should be three paragraphs long for the length of the article, and one sentence paragraphs are discouraged by the MOS anyway. I would combine the current fourth paragraph (one sentence about rats in culture) with the third paragraph.
The lead is also supposed to be a summary of the whole article and as such should not contain any material not also in the article. The origin and meaning of the name seems to be only in the lead though.
As per
MOS:BEGIN the origin and meaning are there to define the term as completely as possible - isn't it a little overkill to then have a seperate section repeating these two sentences? There isn't much else to say beyond what's already in the lead, and i wouldn't think that a definition needs to be reiterated. -
ΖαππερΝαππερBabelAlexandria17:22, 10 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I think it is OK for GA (I tend to review with my FA glasses on), but I also think the name origin could easily be in the History section. The Oxford English Dictionary usually will give the first recorded usage of a word, so that could be in there too (when were they first called "fancy rats"?).
Ruhrfisch><>°°20:16, 25 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Refs in the lead are generally reserved for direct quoatations or extraoridnary claims (again the refs should be in the body of the article where the claim is repeated).
I agree, they were added at the request of another editor more familiar with editing contentious articles. It's probably necessary to keep refs about health risks and plague as these are common misconceptions and people unfamiliar with the subject would find this to be an "extraordinary" claim. -
ΖαππερΝαππερBabelAlexandria17:22, 10 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Refs follow punctuation, so fix things like Fancy rats are not a carrier of plague[5], ...
Punctuation follows quotation marks unless an entire sentence is being quoted, so fix Thus, one who keeps pet rats is said to be involved in "rat fancy."
There are a few places where italics are used for emphasis that seem to contradict
WP:ITALIC
It is your call, but I thought italicizing "wild" in "its exposure to wild rat populations" like overkill. "sell" later on was OK I thought (don't expect ratcatchers to sell the rats they catch.
Ruhrfisch><>°°20:16, 25 February 2009 (UTC)reply
To improve the flow of the article I try to avoid short (one or two sentence) paragraphs and sections, as well as bullet point lists.
I generally agree, but I'm also a stickler when it comes to the idea that the sentences in a paragraph should relate to eachother (which is why i had to reorganize the lead to squeeze the entertainment sentence somewhere). I've fixed most of these instances, but left some because either the information really shouldn't be appended to the surrounding paragraphs, or to increase readability (the Health section is full of terms and diseases that readers may be unfamiliar with). -
ΖαππερΝαππερBabelAlexandria17:22, 10 February 2009 (UTC)reply
The single bulleted list in the Markings section is there because that turned out to be the easiest way to present the information for readability and accessibility. One long list of prose, similar to how the coat-types are handled, is actually too cumbersome, not really improving "flow" at all, while a table was the worst, given the other surrounding formatting (i.e. images). -
ΖαππερΝαππερBabelAlexandria17:22, 10 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Refs should be in numerical order so fix things like and the stresses naturally associated with living in an unnatural habitat can all adversely affect a rat's health making them prone to specific conditions.[33][31][34]
I thought the History section could be expanded a bit to meet the broadness of coverage criterion - there is no reason given for the closing of the first club in 1931 or the refounding of the new British group in 1976. Nothing at all on other clubs being founded (dates).
Info added, there really isn't much out there other than the NFRS surfaced because there enough interest again. As far as other clubs go, given that this a relatively newer hobby it only seems necessary to point out the originators as over time many will come and go - eventually longstanding notable clubs will stand out, but there aren't any others that really need to be addressed in the history section. -
ΖαππερΝαππερBabelAlexandria06:13, 11 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Try to remember to provide context for the reader - see
WP:PCR. For example a year range for the Victorian originators would help, or saying the NFRS is British would too.
In Entertainment says major film releases and television series throughout the world. but all the examples are American films or TV shows. House's rat needs a ref. Both versions of Willard have years, Ben does not (and now the Michael Jackson theme song is running through my head).
Ruhrfisch><>°°20:16, 25 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Thanks again, Ruhrfisch. I made some updates to address your concerns. Not sure about the "throughout the world" one, though, because the source being used states just that. That said, if I can dig up some sources on non-U.S. shows or films, I will include them. --
Levine2112discuss20:43, 25 February 2009 (UTC)reply
yeah i think that phrasing was a remnant from before the ref was added :) I would love to expand the section with protrayals from other countries, but the only one i know of is the Fawlty Towers episode which needed to be removed. It's not a pressing issue though right now... btw, Levine,
i have some concerns about the image you added. -
ΖαππερΝαππερBabelAlexandria00:43, 26 February 2009 (UTC)reply
A script has been used to generate a semi-
automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and
house style; it can be found on the
automated peer review page for February 2009.
This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because…
We all have been working hard to bring it up to Wikipedia's GA standards. I feel that the article is informative, providing information that has been verified to reliable sources and presented from a neutral point of view. I believe that the article makes good use of pictures and internal linking. Finally, as a total novice in the subject, I came away after reading this article with more than just a cursory overview of the topic, but rather more detailed expert knowledge of Fancy rats.
I am looking for outside opinions to see if they concur with my assessment here that this article is ready to be promoted to Good Article status.
Thanks, --
Levine2112discuss18:25, 3 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Ruhrfisch comments: Very interesting article and seems close to GA, here are some suggestions for improvement.
Reading
Wikipedia:Good article criteria, the main problems seem to be some
WP:MOS issues and a few broadness of coverage issues. I usually review articles with FA in mind, so some of my comments may be pickier than GA requires. I will start with MOS issues
The lead needs to follow
WP:LEAD. It should be three paragraphs long for the length of the article, and one sentence paragraphs are discouraged by the MOS anyway. I would combine the current fourth paragraph (one sentence about rats in culture) with the third paragraph.
The lead is also supposed to be a summary of the whole article and as such should not contain any material not also in the article. The origin and meaning of the name seems to be only in the lead though.
As per
MOS:BEGIN the origin and meaning are there to define the term as completely as possible - isn't it a little overkill to then have a seperate section repeating these two sentences? There isn't much else to say beyond what's already in the lead, and i wouldn't think that a definition needs to be reiterated. -
ΖαππερΝαππερBabelAlexandria17:22, 10 February 2009 (UTC)reply
I think it is OK for GA (I tend to review with my FA glasses on), but I also think the name origin could easily be in the History section. The Oxford English Dictionary usually will give the first recorded usage of a word, so that could be in there too (when were they first called "fancy rats"?).
Ruhrfisch><>°°20:16, 25 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Refs in the lead are generally reserved for direct quoatations or extraoridnary claims (again the refs should be in the body of the article where the claim is repeated).
I agree, they were added at the request of another editor more familiar with editing contentious articles. It's probably necessary to keep refs about health risks and plague as these are common misconceptions and people unfamiliar with the subject would find this to be an "extraordinary" claim. -
ΖαππερΝαππερBabelAlexandria17:22, 10 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Refs follow punctuation, so fix things like Fancy rats are not a carrier of plague[5], ...
Punctuation follows quotation marks unless an entire sentence is being quoted, so fix Thus, one who keeps pet rats is said to be involved in "rat fancy."
There are a few places where italics are used for emphasis that seem to contradict
WP:ITALIC
It is your call, but I thought italicizing "wild" in "its exposure to wild rat populations" like overkill. "sell" later on was OK I thought (don't expect ratcatchers to sell the rats they catch.
Ruhrfisch><>°°20:16, 25 February 2009 (UTC)reply
To improve the flow of the article I try to avoid short (one or two sentence) paragraphs and sections, as well as bullet point lists.
I generally agree, but I'm also a stickler when it comes to the idea that the sentences in a paragraph should relate to eachother (which is why i had to reorganize the lead to squeeze the entertainment sentence somewhere). I've fixed most of these instances, but left some because either the information really shouldn't be appended to the surrounding paragraphs, or to increase readability (the Health section is full of terms and diseases that readers may be unfamiliar with). -
ΖαππερΝαππερBabelAlexandria17:22, 10 February 2009 (UTC)reply
The single bulleted list in the Markings section is there because that turned out to be the easiest way to present the information for readability and accessibility. One long list of prose, similar to how the coat-types are handled, is actually too cumbersome, not really improving "flow" at all, while a table was the worst, given the other surrounding formatting (i.e. images). -
ΖαππερΝαππερBabelAlexandria17:22, 10 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Refs should be in numerical order so fix things like and the stresses naturally associated with living in an unnatural habitat can all adversely affect a rat's health making them prone to specific conditions.[33][31][34]
I thought the History section could be expanded a bit to meet the broadness of coverage criterion - there is no reason given for the closing of the first club in 1931 or the refounding of the new British group in 1976. Nothing at all on other clubs being founded (dates).
Info added, there really isn't much out there other than the NFRS surfaced because there enough interest again. As far as other clubs go, given that this a relatively newer hobby it only seems necessary to point out the originators as over time many will come and go - eventually longstanding notable clubs will stand out, but there aren't any others that really need to be addressed in the history section. -
ΖαππερΝαππερBabelAlexandria06:13, 11 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Try to remember to provide context for the reader - see
WP:PCR. For example a year range for the Victorian originators would help, or saying the NFRS is British would too.
In Entertainment says major film releases and television series throughout the world. but all the examples are American films or TV shows. House's rat needs a ref. Both versions of Willard have years, Ben does not (and now the Michael Jackson theme song is running through my head).
Ruhrfisch><>°°20:16, 25 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Thanks again, Ruhrfisch. I made some updates to address your concerns. Not sure about the "throughout the world" one, though, because the source being used states just that. That said, if I can dig up some sources on non-U.S. shows or films, I will include them. --
Levine2112discuss20:43, 25 February 2009 (UTC)reply
yeah i think that phrasing was a remnant from before the ref was added :) I would love to expand the section with protrayals from other countries, but the only one i know of is the Fawlty Towers episode which needed to be removed. It's not a pressing issue though right now... btw, Levine,
i have some concerns about the image you added. -
ΖαππερΝαππερBabelAlexandria00:43, 26 February 2009 (UTC)reply