This peer review discussion has been closed.
Hello, I listed this article for peer review for GA-class as I think that an important piece of art such as this should get to superior quality. I would like to know what could be done for the article to get to this class.
Translate foreign language reference titles to English by using |trans_title in the references. Be sure not to put square brackets in this part as it renders the title weirdly.
Extremepro (
talk)
08:39, 3 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Good. Possibly you'd also need alt-text for pictures in the gallery (which should eventually be moved into the article text).
bamse (
talk)
19:48, 3 December 2009 (UTC)reply
I see two people dressed like sumo wrestlers wrestling. I don't know if it is sumo or not, that's why I asked how old sumo is. Compared to modern sumo matches, at least a ring is missing. If you want to be safe you could write just "wrestling", though I admit it looks a lot like sumo and is probably an ancient form of sumo.
bamse (
talk)
19:18, 4 December 2009 (UTC)reply
"...supposedly the origin of the right to left reading direction in modern manga and novels..." I believe there are older handscrolls which are read from right to left.
Sorry, didn't know her. I am pretty sure (but too lazy to find sources) that right to left writing is much older and possibly connected with the way of writing (with a brush). It might have been imported from China in the 6th century or so. The Chōjū-jinbutsu-giga might be the oldest caricature on emakimono, though there are some other "funny" scrolls (Hungry ghosts scroll, Diseases and Deformities,...) created around the same time. See
List of National Treasures of Japan (paintings) for instance.
bamse (
talk)
11:16, 4 December 2009 (UTC)reply
The lead section needs some grammar corrections, but I suggest writing the lead as a summary of the article at the very last. At the moment the second paragraph of the lead is too detailed (Why is only the first scroll mentioned?)
"The Chōjū-jinbutsu-giga emakimono, belonging to the Kōzan-ji temple in Kyoto, Japan as an ancient cultural property,[2][3] were drawn in the mid-12th century, whereas the third and fourth scrolls date from the 13th century." is confusing: Are the third and fourth scrolls not an "ancient cultural property" or don't they belong to Kōzan-ji?
"...who created a painting a lot like Chōjū-jinbutsu-giga..." Which painting?
The problem with this is that there is no information that I can find that says the name of the painting. Just one reliable source that states that "there was a similar painting". –
J U M PG U R U■
ask㋐㋜㋗■21:36, 3 December 2009 (UTC)reply
I am not a biologist, but
Warthog says: "A warthog is identifiable by the two pairs of tusks protruding from the mouth...". I don't see any tusks in the scroll. Also, I am not sure how well known African fauna was in 12th/13th century Japan. Maybe it is just a Japanese
wild boar!? As for the reindeer, I am not sure if
reindeers have such pattern (dots). Could be a Japanese
Sika Deer!?
bamse (
talk)
11:16, 4 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Better. I'd also remove the "gallery" heading and arrange the pictures with the (to be written) explanations of the four scrolls, i.e., explanation of scroll 1 with pictures of scroll 1, explanation of scroll 2 with pictures of scroll 2,...
bamse (
talk)
22:07, 5 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Wait a minute...what the hell? Someone completely disorganized the gallery for no reason. They used to be in order like you're telling me to do. :( I'll fix them tomorrow. Really tired from work today. –
J U M PG U R U■
ask㋐㋜㋗■06:37, 6 December 2009 (UTC)reply
I can see foxes and other animals but they are not mentioned in the description.
"...two monkeys holding a box." looks more kike one of the monkeys is carrying a box while the other carries a small package.
There is a scene between the box carrying monkey and the funeral which is not mentioned in the description.
"a frog praying to Buddha as the scroll closes", is rather a monkey praying in front of a frog-shaped Buddha statue. Also "Buddha" is redirected to
Budai, which needs a reference as it is a non-obvious claim.
That's indeed a problem as one of the GA requirements is completeness (actually B-class requires "mostly complete" already). There are at least some pictures of the other scrolls in the gallery. Do you read Japanese btw?
bamse (
talk)
11:16, 4 December 2009 (UTC)reply
When were the copies that are now at Kozan-ji created?
"The scrolls currently on display at Kōzan-ji are reproductions." Are these reproductions old or recent (late 20th/early 21st century)? If they are old, it might be interesting to mention the year or period they were created. Better explained now?
bamse (
talk)
18:20, 5 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Quite some comments. Hope you are not discouraged. Definitely the article needs quite some expansion as it covers only 1/4 of the scrolls. Apart from that, POV interpretations (warthog, sumo,...) should be either referenced or removed.
bamse (
talk)
11:13, 3 December 2009 (UTC)reply
This peer review discussion has been closed.
Hello, I listed this article for peer review for GA-class as I think that an important piece of art such as this should get to superior quality. I would like to know what could be done for the article to get to this class.
Translate foreign language reference titles to English by using |trans_title in the references. Be sure not to put square brackets in this part as it renders the title weirdly.
Extremepro (
talk)
08:39, 3 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Good. Possibly you'd also need alt-text for pictures in the gallery (which should eventually be moved into the article text).
bamse (
talk)
19:48, 3 December 2009 (UTC)reply
I see two people dressed like sumo wrestlers wrestling. I don't know if it is sumo or not, that's why I asked how old sumo is. Compared to modern sumo matches, at least a ring is missing. If you want to be safe you could write just "wrestling", though I admit it looks a lot like sumo and is probably an ancient form of sumo.
bamse (
talk)
19:18, 4 December 2009 (UTC)reply
"...supposedly the origin of the right to left reading direction in modern manga and novels..." I believe there are older handscrolls which are read from right to left.
Sorry, didn't know her. I am pretty sure (but too lazy to find sources) that right to left writing is much older and possibly connected with the way of writing (with a brush). It might have been imported from China in the 6th century or so. The Chōjū-jinbutsu-giga might be the oldest caricature on emakimono, though there are some other "funny" scrolls (Hungry ghosts scroll, Diseases and Deformities,...) created around the same time. See
List of National Treasures of Japan (paintings) for instance.
bamse (
talk)
11:16, 4 December 2009 (UTC)reply
The lead section needs some grammar corrections, but I suggest writing the lead as a summary of the article at the very last. At the moment the second paragraph of the lead is too detailed (Why is only the first scroll mentioned?)
"The Chōjū-jinbutsu-giga emakimono, belonging to the Kōzan-ji temple in Kyoto, Japan as an ancient cultural property,[2][3] were drawn in the mid-12th century, whereas the third and fourth scrolls date from the 13th century." is confusing: Are the third and fourth scrolls not an "ancient cultural property" or don't they belong to Kōzan-ji?
"...who created a painting a lot like Chōjū-jinbutsu-giga..." Which painting?
The problem with this is that there is no information that I can find that says the name of the painting. Just one reliable source that states that "there was a similar painting". –
J U M PG U R U■
ask㋐㋜㋗■21:36, 3 December 2009 (UTC)reply
I am not a biologist, but
Warthog says: "A warthog is identifiable by the two pairs of tusks protruding from the mouth...". I don't see any tusks in the scroll. Also, I am not sure how well known African fauna was in 12th/13th century Japan. Maybe it is just a Japanese
wild boar!? As for the reindeer, I am not sure if
reindeers have such pattern (dots). Could be a Japanese
Sika Deer!?
bamse (
talk)
11:16, 4 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Better. I'd also remove the "gallery" heading and arrange the pictures with the (to be written) explanations of the four scrolls, i.e., explanation of scroll 1 with pictures of scroll 1, explanation of scroll 2 with pictures of scroll 2,...
bamse (
talk)
22:07, 5 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Wait a minute...what the hell? Someone completely disorganized the gallery for no reason. They used to be in order like you're telling me to do. :( I'll fix them tomorrow. Really tired from work today. –
J U M PG U R U■
ask㋐㋜㋗■06:37, 6 December 2009 (UTC)reply
I can see foxes and other animals but they are not mentioned in the description.
"...two monkeys holding a box." looks more kike one of the monkeys is carrying a box while the other carries a small package.
There is a scene between the box carrying monkey and the funeral which is not mentioned in the description.
"a frog praying to Buddha as the scroll closes", is rather a monkey praying in front of a frog-shaped Buddha statue. Also "Buddha" is redirected to
Budai, which needs a reference as it is a non-obvious claim.
That's indeed a problem as one of the GA requirements is completeness (actually B-class requires "mostly complete" already). There are at least some pictures of the other scrolls in the gallery. Do you read Japanese btw?
bamse (
talk)
11:16, 4 December 2009 (UTC)reply
When were the copies that are now at Kozan-ji created?
"The scrolls currently on display at Kōzan-ji are reproductions." Are these reproductions old or recent (late 20th/early 21st century)? If they are old, it might be interesting to mention the year or period they were created. Better explained now?
bamse (
talk)
18:20, 5 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Quite some comments. Hope you are not discouraged. Definitely the article needs quite some expansion as it covers only 1/4 of the scrolls. Apart from that, POV interpretations (warthog, sumo,...) should be either referenced or removed.
bamse (
talk)
11:13, 3 December 2009 (UTC)reply