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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
It’s quite laughable how the closer didn’t take into account the blatant WP:JDLI that was present in every single oppose vote in the discussion ( except for the one oppose vote that argued against WP:CCC). As such it should be overturned or relisted for policy based input. 67.148.24.106 ( talk) 18:40, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
The page was move protected (as a result of a WP:MORATORIUM), but the move protection was overridden and the page moved after a week's discussion by a non-admin closer. Previous opposers were not informed (I was not closely monitoring the talk page because of the moratorium). This seems to be a procedural failure. Propose moving the page back to Port Elizabeth and reinstating the move protection till 28 March 2023, as previously imposed, given the time of year, and likeliness of further limited participation. Park3r ( talk) 21:36, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
In closing this RM, the closer has stated in their closing statement that their decision was based on a headcount. In the discussion on their talk page, the closure states that policy-based arguments were "relatively equal in weight". It is inproper to decide the outcome of a RM based on a headcount, and instead the closer should have decided the outcome based on the policy-based arguments present in the discussion. Since the closer stated that policy-based arguments were equal in weight, they should have closed the discussion as "no consensus", rather than count the number of !votes. In addition to their statement on the number of !votes, the closing statement does not adequately address the arguments made in the discussion. Spekkios ( talk) 23:30, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
The close relies solely on a headcount and does not address the strength of arguments whatsoever. In the move request, there were a number of completely unsubstantiated oppose votes, most based on a supposed POV issue. When evidence in the form of sources were provided that refuted these arguments they were simply repeated. Editors argued that not everybody was expelled, failing to note that the proposed title included "flight". Editors argued that not everybody fled or were expelled, several scholarly sources were provided that said exactly that. An editor argued that "expulsion and flight" was a Wikipedia invention, and when several sources were provided using exactly that phrasing there was no response. All of the sourcing provided in the move request was on one side of the argument, and as Wikipedia consensus is not and has never been a vote, the number of people repeating the same bogus "POV" argument without any evidence should have been ignored entirely. The close ignored the discussion entirely except for the bolded !votes, and an examination of the strength of arguments in this discussion shows a clear consensus for the move. Which is why the previous move review was not overturn to no consensus but rather to vacate for a new close. That move review is now being used as support for a no consensus outcome when it explicitly did not support that outcome. Beyond that, the move had only been relisted for three days prior to being closed, making the argument that no new comments were coming premature. Nableezy 17:25, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
It’s quite laughable how the closer didn’t take into account the blatant WP:JDLI that was present in every single oppose vote in the discussion ( except for the one oppose vote that argued against WP:CCC). As such it should be overturned or relisted for policy based input. 67.148.24.106 ( talk) 18:40, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
The page was move protected (as a result of a WP:MORATORIUM), but the move protection was overridden and the page moved after a week's discussion by a non-admin closer. Previous opposers were not informed (I was not closely monitoring the talk page because of the moratorium). This seems to be a procedural failure. Propose moving the page back to Port Elizabeth and reinstating the move protection till 28 March 2023, as previously imposed, given the time of year, and likeliness of further limited participation. Park3r ( talk) 21:36, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
In closing this RM, the closer has stated in their closing statement that their decision was based on a headcount. In the discussion on their talk page, the closure states that policy-based arguments were "relatively equal in weight". It is inproper to decide the outcome of a RM based on a headcount, and instead the closer should have decided the outcome based on the policy-based arguments present in the discussion. Since the closer stated that policy-based arguments were equal in weight, they should have closed the discussion as "no consensus", rather than count the number of !votes. In addition to their statement on the number of !votes, the closing statement does not adequately address the arguments made in the discussion. Spekkios ( talk) 23:30, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the move review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
The close relies solely on a headcount and does not address the strength of arguments whatsoever. In the move request, there were a number of completely unsubstantiated oppose votes, most based on a supposed POV issue. When evidence in the form of sources were provided that refuted these arguments they were simply repeated. Editors argued that not everybody was expelled, failing to note that the proposed title included "flight". Editors argued that not everybody fled or were expelled, several scholarly sources were provided that said exactly that. An editor argued that "expulsion and flight" was a Wikipedia invention, and when several sources were provided using exactly that phrasing there was no response. All of the sourcing provided in the move request was on one side of the argument, and as Wikipedia consensus is not and has never been a vote, the number of people repeating the same bogus "POV" argument without any evidence should have been ignored entirely. The close ignored the discussion entirely except for the bolded !votes, and an examination of the strength of arguments in this discussion shows a clear consensus for the move. Which is why the previous move review was not overturn to no consensus but rather to vacate for a new close. That move review is now being used as support for a no consensus outcome when it explicitly did not support that outcome. Beyond that, the move had only been relisted for three days prior to being closed, making the argument that no new comments were coming premature. Nableezy 17:25, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the move review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |